Shane Williams gets Lions call up (this is not a joke)

by GLove39 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:04 am

First topic message reminder :

Named in team for Brumbies!!!!!

How many extra backs have they called up now???
Will Williams be fit given he's retired and gone onto commentary?

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:40 am

If it really is a one-off, then why not give the experience to a proven try scorer like Visser, Trimble or Fenby or an exciting teenager like Yarde? They would get so much more from the Lions experience.

by nobbled Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:44 am

After yesterday's game I was finally getting into the spirit of the Lions Tour.

Choosing Shane for what is essentially a cameo appearance makes a mockery of the series.

Gatland - what are you thinking??

by **RDW** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:45 am

All Lions tours are mainly remembered for a certain thing - 1997 was winning the tour, 2001 was the RoG incident, 2005 for being a farce, 2009 for the brutal physicality

2013? Selection calls - been an absolute merry-go-round!

Going to be an interesting Living with Lions DVD anyway!

by sad_gimp Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:52 am

A joke really, he's basically retired. Bumped into him and Stephen Jones after the baabaas game and they were both boozing and smoking until sunrise. No way he's even close to match fit!

by stevetynant Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:53 am

Looks like gatland is willing to give up his 100percent tour record to protect his front line players which doesn't make good reading for obrien and faletau.

by jammoboss Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:53 am

I would of said 2009 RoG incodent again.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:54 am

flyhalffactory wrote:Gatland has all but destroyed the Lions as an institution.

There are players who put their hands up before the original selection was announced SCOTT, MADIGAN, BIGGAR, and they are all fit and playing well at this moment.

Yet Gatland has further ridiculed the Lions brand by selecting Barritt who hasn't played for how long?..... 4-6 weeks or more?, and brings nothing to the midfield and now a 36yr old who has retired from International rugby for 19 months and is playing in the second tier of Japan rugby.

And..........what does Mr G say

"He is in pretty good nick," .

"He has been boxing as well, but hopefully that is not going to be needed on Tuesday.

This just all beggars belief.

Good fitness from boxing. Probably just as fit as Richie Gray was when he got selected on the back of his rowing no?

by Allty Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:57 am

Sadly in my mind Gatland has devalued the Lions shirt.

by Dontheman Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:02 am

,

westisbest wrote:First game then for both centres and wingers.

Strange one Williams, considering he had retired.
So had Martyn Williams before Gats brought him back for Wales

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:04 am

I can't quite believe it, but in a sense it does make sense due to the fact he was there anyway, he will give a lift to the squad (as proven by players like Roberts' comments on twitter) and Gatland has protected players like Zebo who are now becoming more important to the tour by the looks. I don't go along with it devalues the shirt, as he is already a Test Lion and what would a player like Visser or whoever gain from being in the squad just as an injury wildcard? Probably better to give an appearance to somebody who is already a Lion to giving a one off appearance to somebody who isn't.

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:16 am

Risca Rev wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Gatland has all but destroyed the Lions as an institution.

There are players who put their hands up before the original selection was announced SCOTT, MADIGAN, BIGGAR, and they are all fit and playing well at this moment.

Yet Gatland has further ridiculed the Lions brand by selecting Barritt who hasn't played for how long?..... 4-6 weeks or more?, and brings nothing to the midfield and now a 36yr old who has retired from International rugby for 19 months and is playing in the second tier of Japan rugby.

And..........what does Mr G say

"He is in pretty good nick," .

"He has been boxing as well, but hopefully that is not going to be needed on Tuesday.

This just all beggars belief.

Good fitness from boxing. Probably just as fit as Richie Gray was when he got selected on the back of his rowing no?

Sure, provided that Shane also posted the boxing equivalent of British Olympic rowing team qualifying times like Gray did.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:23 am

So who would people have flown in for this 24 hour period? And what are the flight schedules like for these players?

by t1000advancedprototype Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:26 am

North - Injured
Bowe - Injured
Cuthbert - Cotton wool
Maitland - Crap

Williams - two lions tours, two grandslams, a million tries

It's the dead rubber match of the tour anyway.

Why can't people just enjoy the moment and embrace this rare novelty.

IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT DEVALUEING THE LIONS ASK CLIVE WOODWARD

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:34 am

If as they say he will leave the tour on Wednesday then it makes sense due to fact he's there anyway.

Wasn't it Andy Nicol that called up in 01 due to fact he was 'funnily enough' on holiday in Ozat the time.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:35 am

George Carlin wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Gatland has all but destroyed the Lions as an institution.

There are players who put their hands up before the original selection was announced SCOTT, MADIGAN, BIGGAR, and they are all fit and playing well at this moment.

Yet Gatland has further ridiculed the Lions brand by selecting Barritt who hasn't played for how long?..... 4-6 weeks or more?, and brings nothing to the midfield and now a 36yr old who has retired from International rugby for 19 months and is playing in the second tier of Japan rugby.

And..........what does Mr G say

"He is in pretty good nick," .

"He has been boxing as well, but hopefully that is not going to be needed on Tuesday.

This just all beggars belief.

Good fitness from boxing. Probably just as fit as Richie Gray was when he got selected on the back of his rowing no?
Sure, provided that Shane also posted the boxing equivalent of British Olympic rowing team qualifying times like Gray did.

Whilst it proves great fitness, it doesn't really prove the ability to take a knock etc.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:43 am

Risca Rev wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Gatland has all but destroyed the Lions as an institution.

There are players who put their hands up before the original selection was announced SCOTT, MADIGAN, BIGGAR, and they are all fit and playing well at this moment.

Yet Gatland has further ridiculed the Lions brand by selecting Barritt who hasn't played for how long?..... 4-6 weeks or more?, and brings nothing to the midfield and now a 36yr old who has retired from International rugby for 19 months and is playing in the second tier of Japan rugby.

And..........what does Mr G say

"He is in pretty good nick," .

"He has been boxing as well, but hopefully that is not going to be needed on Tuesday.

This just all beggars belief.

Good fitness from boxing. Probably just as fit as Richie Gray was when he got selected on the back of his rowing no?
Sure, provided that Shane also posted the boxing equivalent of British Olympic rowing team qualifying times like Gray did.

Whilst it proves great fitness, it doesn't really prove the ability to take a knock etc.

My initial reaction this morning was "WTF", however, if Shane's already in Australia to do commentary it does make sense for a 1-off rather than flying someone in long-haul.

That said, the Japanese club season finished in March, and he's been playing for a team that any of the Lions' tour opponents to date would put 50 points on for the last 2 seasons. So the boxing training had better have been good.

by sirBiggles Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:43 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
Actually, we've been lucky so far at scrum half. All three are fit so we've got a surplus in a position which usually sees at least one high profile casualty.

He's got the half backs covered. Just heard that Gareth Edwards and Phil Bennet are flying out to commentate for Radio Cymru.

Sorted....

by The Great Aukster Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:44 am

So it's official - the Lions aren't selected on merit but instead are just mates with the coach (and/or senior players). This old boys club used to be the way the tourists were picked so at least it maintains that age-old tradition.

This opportunity should have been used to give a potential future tourist valuable experience that would have stood them in good stead for the future rather than the aggrandisement of a retired has-been.

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:45 am

Risca Rev wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Gatland has all but destroyed the Lions as an institution.

There are players who put their hands up before the original selection was announced SCOTT, MADIGAN, BIGGAR, and they are all fit and playing well at this moment.

Yet Gatland has further ridiculed the Lions brand by selecting Barritt who hasn't played for how long?..... 4-6 weeks or more?, and brings nothing to the midfield and now a 36yr old who has retired from International rugby for 19 months and is playing in the second tier of Japan rugby.

And..........what does Mr G say

"He is in pretty good nick," .

"He has been boxing as well, but hopefully that is not going to be needed on Tuesday.

This just all beggars belief.

Good fitness from boxing. Probably just as fit as Richie Gray was when he got selected on the back of his rowing no?
Sure, provided that Shane also posted the boxing equivalent of British Olympic rowing team qualifying times like Gray did.

Whilst it proves great fitness, it doesn't really prove the ability to take a knock etc.

Quite right. I am perhaps less worried about Gray's ability to handle himself at 6'10", 20st, 2lbs than the SG at 5'7", 12st, 8lbs - the latter not taking into account any changes to the Welsh genius' "unofficial" weight that may (or may not) have occurred since he last laced up his boots and started eating cheese.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:47 am

If Danny Cipriani had stayed in Australia with the Rebels, you have to wonder whether he might have got an emergency call-up. He could have played 10, and Hogg taken the wing position which is now going to Williams.

by Coleman Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:49 am

Shane is pretty confident that he can handle it. From his twitter:

"Shane Williams ‏@ShaneWilliams11 8h
Any contribution I can give to make @lionsofficial tour successful I am there with bells on! If I wasn't good enough I would have said no

by t1000advancedprototype Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:53 am

I'm sure in 2005 Clive Woodward had complete disregard for form and picked all of his mates. Then to top it off he didn't integrate them.

He left out the best wing in the world at the time.
He left out the best 12 in the NH.
He picked an out of form 10 at 12.

He destroyed the tour before it began.

Gatland selecting one of the best players ever for a micky mouse game as a one off to help with injury cover is hardly the end of the world.

by dragonbreath Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:56 am

JmD wrote:That backline is so weak, the Lions could really struggle with this match. One player who is a commentator, 3 players who are just off the plane, a 15 at 10, and a 15 who is just back from injury.

Why is that weak. Current England SH centre combination could easily have been Englands first choice, Wade who is giving England fans damp pants, Kearney, one of the best FBs in world Rugby, oh and one of the greatest players to have ever lived

by t1000advancedprototype Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:59 am

Jenkins and Howley could be the test half backs.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:03 am

George Carlin wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Gatland has all but destroyed the Lions as an institution.

There are players who put their hands up before the original selection was announced SCOTT, MADIGAN, BIGGAR, and they are all fit and playing well at this moment.

Yet Gatland has further ridiculed the Lions brand by selecting Barritt who hasn't played for how long?..... 4-6 weeks or more?, and brings nothing to the midfield and now a 36yr old who has retired from International rugby for 19 months and is playing in the second tier of Japan rugby.

And..........what does Mr G say

"He is in pretty good nick," .

"He has been boxing as well, but hopefully that is not going to be needed on Tuesday.

This just all beggars belief.

Good fitness from boxing. Probably just as fit as Richie Gray was when he got selected on the back of his rowing no?
Sure, provided that Shane also posted the boxing equivalent of British Olympic rowing team qualifying times like Gray did.

Whilst it proves great fitness, it doesn't really prove the ability to take a knock etc.
Quite right. I am perhaps less worried about Gray's ability to handle himself at 6'10", 20st, 2lbs than the SG at 5'7", 12st, 8lbs - the latter not taking into account any changes to the Welsh genius' "unofficial" weight that may (or may not) have occurred since he last laced up his boots and started eating cheese.

He doesn't have to last the tour though, just one game. Besides which, Shane looks in decent enough shape seeing him on scrum V and the boxing thing and also if he wasn't up to it, I'm sure he wouldn't have accepted. It's not as if his fitness has to be that top notch being on the wing as well. I think he may go pretty well and wouldn't be surprised to see him score.

I am just pointing out how I'm sure people were happy enough with Gray being selected for a whole tour, but in a similar one off scenario it's a different matter.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:07 am

I'm still not seeing any alternatives suggested? Most decent alternatives played yesterday, or are a little too far away to get here in good nick for a game on Tuesday. Who else??

by wales606 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:13 am

Lets stop the bickering and look at what this means

We have 4 fit wingers on tour - Wade, Maitland, Zebo and Cuthbert

Gatland wants to save 2 of these for the first test

For me, that is Zebo and Cuthbert

Interestingly, Maitland isn't selected to start on Tuesday and Zebo is selected on the bench

I hope this doesn't mean Maitland is pencilled in for the first test

Calling up Shane leads me to think Maitland is injured and Gatland didn't want a test wing starting on Tuesday

..............

As for Shane being called up - He is the only winger in Australia not on the tour, calling up another winger just for Tuesday would be expensive, difficult, result in jet lag and be cruel to the player if they were brought over only to be told that they are no longer needed when everyone is fit.

.........

In any case, Shane scored 2 tries the last time he played for the Lions

When he scored a hattrick of hatricks against the Brumbies, stepping around the entire Brumbies XV to score the first, Gatland will be unable to send him home and will instead get down on his hands and knees and beg that the mighty Shane join his team and starts the first test!

by The Great Aukster Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:14 am

This ridiculous decision, must have the Aussie press laughing like Hyenas. Gatland's ludicrous call-up strategy not only allows no time for players to integrate with the team, but the players he's calling up like Wade and Williams haven't played with the players around them.

What if Bowe and North don't recover? Another injury and the pressure will be further ramped up on them to play even if they're not fit. The Lion's Tests will be full on with no hiding place for half-crocked players and unfit retirees - the odds on a serious injury have considerably shortened.

by wales606 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:15 am

Also, Shane needed a "last Lions game" goodbye

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:18 am

The Great Aukster wrote:This ridiculous decision, must have the Aussie press laughing like Hyenas. Gatland's ludicrous call-up strategy not only allows no time for players to integrate with the team, but the players he's calling up like Wade and Williams haven't played with the players around them.

What if Bowe and North don't recover? Another injury and the pressure will be further ramped up on them to play even if they're not fit. The Lion's Tests will be full on with no hiding place for half-crocked players and unfit retirees - the odds on a serious injury have considerably shortened.

Instead of just whinging, how about stating who you would call up?

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:27 am

I like Gatland. I do. I can only assume that he's been with the Lions *thing* for so long that he's lost a bit of perspective. If you've been with a group of lads and you need to call up another as cover, it's probably not a big deal for you to have a chat with management and then make a phone call. It's easy. Call the players you know. Call your 'old dependables'. It's fine, right?

The problem with the Lions is that everything is a big deal. Even getting called up for one game is a wonderful experience for a player (especially a youngfeller) and it still matters that players are chosen on merit. The first signs of not 'getting' this were what was clearly allowing Rowntree to just call up Corbs with scant regard to recent form and gametime rather than James or Grant.

Calling on Williams for one game is not a problem. He'll probably score a couple whilst being gassed by Mogg the other 90% of the time. As has been pointed out, the problem is what it says about how little Gatland values giving a start to a young person who deserves it.

Ironically, yesterday's internationals saw a string of particularly strong wingers' performances - McFadden, Trimble, Yarde and Seymour all had belters of games. Why not any of them? I can only assume that Gats is coming under pressure from the national team coaches not to force any more changes with their squad but how much of an excuse can that possibly be?

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:33 am

George, they all played yesterday. Can you expect them to then fly half way round the world to play another game on tuesday with no problems? Also, are the flights from SA, Argentina, etc. regular and direct to get the player there in time? Shane Williams is just for convenience. If Ashton had been in Oz I'm sure he would have been in too.

by flyhalffactory Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:33 am

Griff wrote:I'm still not seeing any alternatives suggested? Most decent alternatives played yesterday, or are a little too far away to get here in good nick for a game on Tuesday. Who else??

Griff
Your own man is playing in Japan BIGGAR, he is fit and on form and playing NOW

Biggar plays 10
Hogg is benched or plays Wing

If this is a one off............... then what about the other games between the tests

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:34 am

Biggar is not a wing.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:37 am

flyhalffactory wrote:If this is a one off............... then what about the other games between the tests

There's only one. Outside the Tests, this tour will pretty much be over after Tuesday.

by **RDW** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:39 am

Nobody is doubting Shane was a legend, but the key word here is WAS.

There's no point basing your opinion on his past when he's not played since March and even then it was basically for a decent amateur team level

by t1000advancedprototype Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:40 am

Warburton out, chickenpox.

Derek Quinnell on standby. Fortunately he's been staying at a retirement home near Melbourne.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:46 am

The thing with it is, people will have doubts over Shane against Mogg or Speight, but out of all the options available on tour (currently fit), they all have defensive issues anyway.

The travel is massive. Shane does at least get tomorrow to train with the squad. I'm not sure if anybody else would get that?

Biggar had a pretty poor game yesterday and I don't think anybody from that tour debacle deserves any recognition. Liam Williams would have been a possibility but is probably injured after going off early yesterday.

by Cyril Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:49 am

I don't see the big deal. He's only being brought in for Tuesday's game so other wingers can be rested.

It makes sense for him to fill in for a game as the squad is getting so battered. We don't want any more injuries to key players.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:55 am

Cyril, again in agreement with you. Good point, well made.

by Barney McGrew did it Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:00 pm

I’m warming to this Gats bloke. Looks like he’s finally seeing the Lions for what they are these days – ambassadors of B&I rugby, great entertainment value; a sort of BaBas to the max. Now if he can only get Jonny signed up.

by nathan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:03 pm

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I don't see the big deal. He's only being brought in for Tuesday's game so other wingers can be rested.

It makes sense for him to fill in for a game as the squad is getting so battered. We don't want any more injuries to key players.

Completely agree, also on the plus side he has a lot of experience that he can pass down to our inexperienced wingers.

by Tattie Scones RRN Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:06 pm

If the Lions get pumped I'll laugh my erse off. It's been a monumental shambles from the start.

Shane Williams

Laugh

by SecretFly Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:10 pm

If players need resting before tests (and I'm not saying they don't) - but if they do, why have the extra games at all and just have a three test tour against a bunch of players who are also only going to have three tests.

If players can come in a week before the first test, play a game and then perhaps be seen to have done more than enough to actually stick around for one of the later tests (and Williams very well could!), then I don't really see the point in all this publicity about needing all the little games to work on combinations and separate the men from the boys.

None of these Lions boys are boys, they don't need the extra games in the first place, they don't need the extra risks of getting injured or exhausted before the true games of meaning actually happen.

I know it's tradition but increasingly in this professional world - when the back-ups can fly in at a moment's notice - the long tour idea is becoming less valid.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:12 pm

Who would people have brought in instead of Williams and then chucked straight in the Tuesday team?

by tigerleghorn Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:20 pm

Not sure how reliable this is but my Welsh mate just phoned me to say he's spotted JPR and Gerald take an airport taxi with more than an overnight bag and two hats with corks on them!!

You heard it here first!!

by RuggerRadge2611 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:25 pm

Visser is in SA, scored 2 tries against the All Blacks, one against France and was the top try scorer again in the pro12.

Disregarding jet lag, That blond haired Welsh winger Williams, Foden, Gilroy, Brown... Need I go on?

Is Shane Williams in better nick than any of these guys?

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:31 pm

Gilroy is injured, but Trimble has been in sublime form all season.

by broadlandboy Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:32 pm

You can not disregard jet lag

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:36 pm

RR,

Fair enough on all those names but jetlag was the problem, could either of those you named realistically got there and recovered in time to play on Tuesday?

Williams was in Australia so he's joining up for 3 days affectively then carrying on with his broadcasting job.

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