Horwill Cited

Horwill has been cited for "stamping or trampling" on AWJ - no idea what time this happened as nobody seemed to notice at the time.

Acording to BBC Sport it happened in the third minute.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23018029
I just watched the replay and didn't see a thing.

Yeah, I looked at the replay also. The only thing that could possibly be it is at 3:02 or so (which is technically the 4th minute?) Horwill seems to accidentally clip AWJ as he rucks. If that is the case then I don't see him being banned, it was innocuous enough to not elicit a reaction from anyone around at the time.

EDIT:
Heres a gif. Its hard to tell, maybe its more than nothing. I'll let you judge yourselves. I think you'd struggle to ban him on it.

Hmm..I can't see what's being stepped on but I'm pretty convinced it wasn't an accidental.  He makes the choice to slide his foot in there somewhere and stab.

Does it amount to much?  I don't know.  Long ban?  Doesn't look aything like serious enough for one of those.  One match ban?  Depends what was stepped on.  Head? Hand? Torso?  

He's making a decision to put his foot in and it's not rucking.

..I stalled posting this and looked at it again many times... the more I see it............. hmmmm

Catches AWJ in the face by the looks of it. Seems more and more intentional the more I look at it. 

VIDEO: The ruck about 3 minutes into the game (15:40ish)

Doesn't look much but AWJ grabs his face and the movement of the foot isn't natural. Glad I don't have to call that one.

Just seen the clip and he's in big trouble, ball is no where near the situation and there can be no question that he knows what he is doing. I'd say he's out of the series which would be a massive, massive blow to aus

Yep..looks a sly head tap .  He'll have explaining to do and I'm not gunning for him...but the more I look at the footage, the footage is talking for itself. His leg isn't working naturally for a guy not trying to find a target in the melee.

That's actually massive - even if the ban is only a week, he's out of the next test. I cannot see them banning him. A fine and 50 Hail Marys will doubtless be a big enough sanction.

First time I looked i couldn't see it, but as SecretFly said, the more I see it, the more I see it and the worse it looks. That is not a natural leg movement and he's tried to catch AWJ there (IMO). You can't get away with anything in these games.

That was a dangerous cheap shot to Jones's face he probably would have got away with it if it was on the other side. It is a shame as it looks like sour grapes from the Lions but that was not a natural movement. Looks like he's out if found guilty.

He needed stitches above his eye, I think the coaches had to refer it to the citing officer. They can take a look at it and the Aussies would have done the same. I agree with what others have said; it isn't a natural movement of the foot and the ball is nowhere near so could easily be a ban.

Don't see him getting away with that. His leg action is so unnatural it can leave little doubt that it was a deliberate act and having made contact he's in deep trouble. There's no 'heat of the battle' or trying to 'clear a player out' excuse that could be offered in my opinion. Rugby is a dangerous enough game without these kinds if things. Stupid and nasty.

He should be in trouble for that, but I think a joke will be made out of the punishment.

glamorganalun wrote:That was a dangerous cheap shot to Jones's face he probably would have got away with it if it was on the other side. It is a shame as it looks like sour grapes from the Lions but that was not a natural movement. Looks like he's out if found guilty.

The Aussies would of done exactly the same in asking for it to be highlighted, there media would of been all over it. There media has to be on par with ours lol.

Coleman wrote:First time I looked i couldn't see it, but as SecretFly said, the more I see it, the more I see it and the worse it looks. That is not a natural leg movement and he's tried to catch AWJ there (IMO). You can't get away with anything in these games.

Same with me - first time I went back, I didn't see it. Clearly a boot to the face. But - and this is a big but - was it intentional? Or was it accidental? On that point, I really are not sure. Hard for me to judge, happened very quickly.

I have seen the incident on Fox Sports here in Aus and with the benefit of close up, slo-mo footage. Horwill is looking down and moves his leg away from a 'natural' position and over AWJ's face.

Deans has defended him down here, but it looks deliberate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2I8Fpk7FpQ

Here is the Fox News report.

You would have thought that with a Lions win, the resentful unsporting media warfare would not be necessary. But it seems a Lions tour and an assault on the morality of the host country's players go hand in hand, unfortunately.

From the position of Horwill's head, I can't see any suggestion that he could have seen the player on the ground. It looks like his body position is pushed to the right by the movement of the ruck and he moves his foot to keep his balance. There is just no way he could have designed to move his foot in that direction as the head emerges in real time. 

This is SUPER SLOW motion.

It seems having almost the entire backline out for the Wallabies isn't enough for the Lions management and they want to take out the opposition captain and second row too.  It's sad. I wish the game could just be played in the right spirit.  Yesterday's game was fantastic. Let's not tar it with this petty and bitter sour attitude.

Coleman wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2I8Fpk7FpQ

Here is the Fox News report.

Thanks Coleman. First time I've seen it and it's not good - that 'dressage' leg movement is completely counter-intuitive to anyone who is trying to get his balance and move forward.

GloriousEmpire wrote:You would have thought that with a Lions win, the resentful unsporting media warfare would not be necessary. But it seems a Lions tour and an assault on the morality of the host country's players go hand in hand, unfortunately.

He stamped on a human beings face when he was prone on the floor, where is the morality in that? Not sure how "sporting" you'd feel if someone did it to you. The only thing unfortunate about it is that you're condoning it.

Yeah, here we go - you're unfortunately buying into the propaganda. 

This is exactly why this kind of unfortunate misjudgement by the Lions management is so dangerous. Don't they remember the backlash they suffered in 2005?

Look at the replay. How can he see the players head from the position he's in? There is no line of sight. He's bent half way over his own number 7. Unless he can see right through the player and the two underneath him, there is no way it could have been deliberate.

GE is almost certainly referring to the BOD 'clear out' in NZ

But we had the Schalk Burger gouge in SA on the last tour. Nathan Grey taking out Hill in 2001.
How about the host country's players deliberately setting out to injure the Lions?

That's more the history of Lions recent tours.

He's toast!

GloriousEmpire wrote:Yeah, here we go - you're unfortunately buying into the propaganda. 

This is exactly why this kind of unfortunate misjudgement by the Lions management is so dangerous. Don't they remember the backlash they suffered in 2005?

Look at the replay. How can he see the players head from the position he's in? There is no line of sight. He's bent half way over his own number 7. Unless he can see right through the player and the two underneath him, there is no way it could have been deliberate.

Then what exactly is he doing with his legs?! Auditioning for Riverdance? As poster above points out, the "dressage" movement seems pretty unnatural.

Oh please. Take off the tin foil hats. I think BoD displayed ample evidence in the last three tours that he's simply not enough of a concern to be deliberately targeted. The best thing for Australia is these guys to be playing. Because on the whole, they're keeping better players off the park.

It's obvious from the video evidence of reality that the actions of number 7 (granted apparently in from the side - but it's impossible to put that in context given the short nature of the incredibly slow-motion footage) that the ruck collapses in Horwill's direction. He is unsighted and off balance. As he moves his foot back he accidentally makes contact with the head of the Lions player which suddenly emerges from the ruck right where he is standing.

This is a non-event. One of those unfortunate accidents. No real harm. No real foul. Play on, enjoy the special victory and keep the head calm.

Now if you want to see foul play, check out the disgraceful squirrel grip perpetrated by the Samoan full back against South Africa yesterday. 

THAT was deserving of a sanction - this Lions incident is pure ugly politics.

GloriousEmpire wrote:You would have thought that with a Lions win, the resentful unsporting media warfare would not be necessary. But it seems a Lions tour and an assault on the morality of the host country's players go hand in hand, unfortunately.

From the position of Horwill's head, I can't see any suggestion that he could have seen the player on the ground. It looks like his body position is pushed to the right by the movement of the ruck and he moves his foot to keep his balance. There is just no way he could have designed to move his foot in that direction as the head emerges in real time. 

This is SUPER SLOW motion.

It seems having almost the entire backline out for the Wallabies isn't enough for the Lions management and they want to take out the opposition captain and second row too.  It's sad. I wish the game could just be played in the right spirit.  Yesterday's game was fantastic. Let's not tar it with this petty and bitter sour attitude.

What utter utter rubbish, there was absolutely no reason as to why he needed to raise his right leg and then drop it at speed. I'm so disappointed on your post.

Other than keeping his balance, you mean?  I think you'll find contrary to your bizarre post, that in the game of rugby there are more reasons to raise a right leg and drop it at speed than in most other circumstances in life.

Running for example, springs to mind.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Oh please. Take off the tin foil hats. I think BoD displayed ample evidence in the last three tours that he's simply not enough of a concern to be deliberately targeted. The best thing for Australia is these guys to be playing. Because on the whole, they're keeping better players off the park.

It's obvious from the video evidence of reality that the actions of number 7 (granted apparently in from the side - but it's impossible to put that in context given the short nature of the incredibly slow-motion footage) that the ruck collapses in Horwill's direction. He is unsighted and off balance. As he moves his foot back he accidentally makes contact with the head of the Lions player which suddenly emerges from the ruck right where he is standing.

This is a non-event. One of those unfortunate accidents. No real harm. No real foul. Play on, enjoy the special victory and keep the head calm.

Now if you want to see foul play, check out the disgraceful squirrel grip perpetrated by the Samoan full back against South Africa yesterday. 

THAT was deserving of a sanction - this Lions incident is pure ugly politics

you do realise its on YouTube at normal speed and still looks dodgy, there is just no justifiable reason for his leg to come and down like that

Yes there is, mate. THe ruck moves in his direction suddenly and he needs to move his leg to prevent falling over. I can't see how you fail to see this.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Other than keeping his balance, you mean?  I think you'll find contrary to your bizarre post, that in the game of rugby there are more reasons to raise a right leg and drop it at speed than in most other circumstances in life.

Running for example, springs to mind.

Lol, I've just pictured you running whilst stamping down with your heals. Lol

Why when standing sideways would you lift you foot and put it down in front and crossing your other foot to keep balance??? That is not a natural way to keep your balance. In fact him doing that very thing caused him to lose his balance.

Tell you what mate. Let's get together. We'll set up a video camera. You close your eyes, then I'll push you and we'll video your leg movement in slow motion and post it back here. Then we'll have a bunch of people comment on whether it was necessary to move your legs like you did or whether there was a more efficient way of retaining your balance.  Is it a deal?

I think it's better not to talk to him Nathan.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Tell you what mate. Let's get together. We'll set up a video camera. You close your eyes, then I'll push you and we'll video your leg movement in slow motion and post it back here. Then we'll have a bunch of people comment on whether it was necessary to move your legs like you did or whether there was a more efficient way of retaining your balance.  Is it a deal?

No I'm good thanks, really not into those internet things where you promise to be an attractive 21 year old woman, yet in reality your an overweight hairy hippo.

Coleman wrote:I think it's better not to talk to him Nathan.

Exactly the stance I'm now taking!

Yeah when the world isn't agreeing with you, you can always stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and pretend you are right

I'll stay tuned for the indignant with rage "I can't believe Horwill wasn't banned - it must be a conspiracy against the Lions" posts that will show up in a day or two.

Just had a look at it and it's clearly not accidental. 

i would expect a ban....................

Oh, thanks for sorting that out. Just email the judiciary and they can avoid the expensive hearing.

Croft and the other Lions drive over the top of the ruck and twist Horwill sideways. Whether this had an impact or not I can't tell from the little I've seen. Wait to see what comes out of the hearing

Huge loss for the Aussies, they can cover for any changes imaginable in the backs and still have more potential than us there (they can even survive losing Genia, though it weakens them), but losing their captain and a lock is something they will struggle to cover

Glorious is right. 

He (Horwill) was trying to trip himself by putting himself off balance and putting his right leg in, his right leg out... his right leg in and shake it all ab....oh sorry, back to the point

I think he should be cited for a bad taste comic self-trip gag straight in the middle of a Lions v Australian game.  That's a lack of respect for the tradition of the Lions.

Scoped wrote:Catches AWJ in the face by the looks of it. Seems more and more intentional the more I look at it. 

VIDEO: The ruck about 3 minutes into the game (15:40ish)

Absolutely impossible to tell anything at all from the TV camera angle we were given, assume the citing officer has seen something on a better view!

I don't believe North scored his try either.  Too many camera angles.  Nothing is clear cut, it could have been a try but it could equally be that he tripped and was caught in isolation and the ball was stolen from him.  I needed a better view.

I think there should be an inquisition.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Huge loss for the Aussies, they can cover for any changes imaginable in the backs and still have more potential than us there (they can even survive losing Genia, though it weakens them), but losing their captain and a lock is something they will struggle to cover

Yep. Imagine if the Lions worked that out! They might try ANYTHING to get him out of the team!

What was the point of that SF? The video shows enough to say it should be cited but not enough for me to jump to condemn Horwill. I've accidentally trodden on and been trodden on players in matches, and all that video shows us is Horwill treading on AWJ's face in a situation where it is completely feasible that it occurred accidentally. Rushing to judgements on what happened without either players' words on the matter or an angle that shows it either in detail or a view lower to the ground or in slow motion is pretty bad whichever way you lean with your judgement

I also don't think the Lions are lying as Glorious Empire seems to believe but if someone treads on me and I report it, I have no idea whether the bloke meant it or not, but I am aware that I have done it before by accident (and I've rucked people's bodies on purpose a bit too, if they've been doing the same throughout the game)

I'll repost it as some people are saying they havnt seen it clearly enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2I8Fpk7FpQ

That is a lot more condemning

Might be worth the OP editing his post as the Gif at the top dosn't really provide a good view of the incident.