Ireland Training squad for Nov Internationals

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/ireland-training-squad-1087189-Sep2013/

Ireland Training Squad (22-23 September): Stephen Archer (Munster),  Rory Best (Ulster), Isaac Boss (Leinster), Tommy Bowe (Ulster), James Coughlan (Munster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Gordon D’Arcy (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Ulster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Chris Henry (Ulster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), Shane Jennings (Leinster), Rob Kearney (Leinster), Dave Kearney (Leinster), David Kilcoyne (Munster), Ian Madigan (Leinster), Luke Marshall (Ulster), Mike McCarthy (Leinster), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Kevin McLaughlin (Leinster), Niall Morris (Leicester Tigers), Conor Murray (Munster), Sean O’Brien (Leinster), Donncha O’Callaghan (Munster), Paul O’Connell (Munster), Brian O’Driscoll (Leinster), Peter O’Mahony (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92), Mike Sherry (Munster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Devin Toner (Leinster), Dan Tuohy (Ulster), Simon Zebo (Munster).

Nice to see Jack McGrath get picked as he was very impressive v Ospreys.

Niall Morris though? Trimble and Gilroy are also injured.

No Tom Court.

Disappointed Marmion wasnt called up. He looked good against Cardiff last week.

Niall Morris is a good call, hes been playing very well by all reports, but does this indicate that schmidt may be more open to picking overseas players?

Must be Jennings first inclusion in an Ireland squad in a good while.

Donncha O'Callaghan?

Really?

If you say so.

Very conservative squad from Schmidt. Maybe he wants to see more of some players before they're called up.

We're not really going to learn much from a 42 man squad. But good to see that Schmidt is looking overseas, I know he expressed some interest in getting Morris back to Leinster at some stage last year.

I'd love to know who Schmidt sees as the 13 to play for us in the the next WC. Right now the most viable option is Cave.

A shocking omission in my opinion.

There is certainly a good 32 to be picked from that for the autumn. I wouldn't be so confident of playing against them in the Six Nations.  

Probably Jarod Payne, Earls or Bowe. I'd go for Earls.

I would have thought Tommy O'Donnell deserves a spot there. Also Stuart Olding is unlucky to miss out, maybe a bit early for him though.

O'Donnell and Olding are injured. Olding is arguably our no.1 12.

Im dissapointed in the bias shown towards Boss and Reddan. They're both good players at best but Marmion has potential to be very good.

gleesonisgod wrote:O'Donnell and Olding are injured. Olding is arguably our no.1 12.

Im dissapointed in the bias shown towards Boss and Reddan. They're both good players at best but Marmion has potential to be very good.

I would say Marshall is in possession of the shirt rather than Olding. Which could change though.

Cian Healy (Leinster), David Kilcoyne (Munster), Jack McGrath (Leinster)
Rory Best (Ulster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Mike Sherry (Munster)
Mike Ross (Leinster), Stephen Archer (Munster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Ulster)
Paul O’Connell (Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Mike McCarthy (Leinster), Devin Toner (Leinster), Dan Tuohy (Ulster), Donncha O’Callaghan (Munster)
Peter O’Mahony (Munster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Kevin McLaughlin (Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Shane Jennings (Leinster), Chris Henry (Ulster)
Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), James Coughlan (Munster)

Conor Murray (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Isaac Boss (Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92), Ian Madigan (Leinster), Paddy Jackson (Ulster)
Gordon D’Arcy (Leinster), Luke Marshall (Ulster),
Brian O’Driscoll (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster)
Simon Zebo (Munster), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster)
Tommy Bowe (Ulster),  Dave Kearney (Leinster), Niall Morris (Leicester Tigers)
Rob Kearney (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht)

It's surprising that Marmion isn't in the squad, there isn't any point in taking both Reddan and Boss to the RWC, so he could be gaining valuable experience.

Only notable exclusion is Darren Cave.

When there are more than 40 players in a squad, it's a bit 'meh' really.

Morris has been in excellent form for about 18 months and has improved an awful lot under the careful guidance of Geordan Murphy. He turned down a move back to Leinster earlier this year to sign a two year deal at Tigers. That was good news for us as he's improved out of sight and is a first team starter.

Notch wrote:Only notable exclusion is Darren Cave.

When there are more than 40 players in a squad, it's a bit 'meh' really.

I disagree Notch. Ireland need to have three players for each position getting experience in the limited time together between now and the 2015 RWC. Two full teams and 12 subs is about right given that a few others may force their way in (or retire) when fitness or form dictates.

Yeah but what I mean is its not very controversial/interesting. A 42-man squad will include most players in with a shot of a cap and a few who aren't.

Dont see anything to get worried by although had Deccie still been picking the squads I think this thread would be a lot longer.  

Cave is the only one I think is strange. I don't think he is Ireland's future long term but he could be an interim 13 and has certainly shown more in that position than anyone bar BOD.

Great to see McGrath and Morris in there. I'd agree with Notch that you don't get many big decisions being made in squads this big. A couple of points I'd make.

1) No Cave could mean that he is not seen as a successor to BOD, that leads to either Earls, Payne or Bowe. I'm thinking Payne is the most likely. I always thought this year would be used to bed in a 12 alongside BOD and then a 13 would be brought in the next year.

2) Marmion would have been a good shout IMO he looks pretty damn good I think and is getting great game time.

3) I like the inclusion of McLaughlin and Jennings as I think the Leinster backrow has the best dynamic of all of the backrows in the Northern Hemisphere (possibly French when they are picked properly) and I think it gives Ireland more options. I also think it means we could see Hendy at lock which I am all for personally.

Not announcing a captain is probably not as strange as it sounds although that will be a big decision for him no doubt. I pray POC can keep himself fit and healthy.

I think the squad is too heavy towards Leinster. 

I don't like that there is only 1 Connacht representative from the looks of it in the 42 selected.

I think he has sent a quiet message to Munster outhalves that he hasn't picked one above the other.  Is he saying to Keatley that it isn't worth the while bringing you up as you haven't secured your club position ahead of JJ enough yet.

Is there any solid reason for not having Cave in the squad, is he nursing a knock or doing rehab or something?

What I can see out of that squad though is the ability to put together an abrasive away squad and an adventurous home squad.  So hopefully this is the end of just picking the same players week in week out unless injuries force his hand.  There is no point getting open field runners selected if the game is going to be in the trenches and no point going for bulk if we are choosing to throw the ball about.

Using Aukster depth chart groupings, we will quickly struggle if the primary TH, Locks or centres (granted Cave, Olding, Payne could go in here) get injured.  So he needs to be developing the replacements so we aren't over reliant on a single individual.

Interesting quote from Jonathon Bell in the Times today.

"Whereas some Ulster supporters might fear a case of second season syndrome, there’s no panic in the camp. “Not in the slightest. It’s far too early in the season, and I know that’s clichéd and it’s easy to say that,” said Bell, who cited Joe Schmidt coming into the changing-room afterwards and reminding them that Leinster lost three of their first four under his command in 2010-11."

Good to see Schmidt is keeping close contact with the provinces.

Interview with Schmidt here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-settling-in-to-new-role-1.1537289


What we now know is he'll be rotation the squad a lot. Thats positive and a big development for the international side as EOS nor Kidney used to do it.


POC said it was a good meeting and Schmidt sent the players a very clear message of what he wanted.

I think Mike Sherry and Henderson (at lock) have made very strong starts to the season and should see some gametime.


Tighthead is also up for grabs IMO. Ross is past his peak now while there are others on an upward curve. It remains to be see if any of the new fellas can oust Ross.

profitius wrote:Interview with Schmidt here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-settling-in-to-new-role-1.1537289


What we now know is he'll be rotation the squad a lot. Thats positive and a big development for the international side as EOS nor Kidney used to do it.


POC said it was a good meeting and Schmidt sent the players a very clear message of what he wanted.

He said:

“Coming from 32 games in the year to 10 games maximum - and all 10 of those international matches are finals so you pretty much pick your best team all the time,” said Schmidt.

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Interview with Schmidt here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-settling-in-to-new-role-1.1537289


What we now know is he'll be rotation the squad a lot. Thats positive and a big development for the international side as EOS nor Kidney used to do it.


POC said it was a good meeting and Schmidt sent the players a very clear message of what he wanted.

He said:

“Coming from 32 games in the year to 10 games maximum - and all 10 of those international matches are finals so you pretty much pick your best team all the time,” said Schmidt.

He also said there'll have to be changes to the 23 in the autumn because they're going to have 3 physically hard games in a row. I can't remember but I think in last seasons finals he rotated the team a bit.

profitius wrote:

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Interview with Schmidt here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-settling-in-to-new-role-1.1537289


What we now know is he'll be rotation the squad a lot. Thats positive and a big development for the international side as EOS nor Kidney used to do it.


POC said it was a good meeting and Schmidt sent the players a very clear message of what he wanted.

He said:

“Coming from 32 games in the year to 10 games maximum - and all 10 of those international matches are finals so you pretty much pick your best team all the time,” said Schmidt.

He also said there'll have to be changes to the 23 in the autumn because they're going to have 3 physically hard games in a row. I can't remember but I think in last seasons finals he rotated the team a bit.

He went onto say that he doesn't know if you can do the same as you do at provincial/club level. He says he has an open mind as to what to do.

In the province you can have a look at players and put them into matches and they are able to earn a right to play. I’m not sure how I solve that problem but I’ve an open mind and I think players know we are really open minded about things.”

How much rotation did he do for the finals - Ross started both. He 'rotated' where there was a viable option - i.e., Jennings for SOB. There was no Madigan instead of Sexton for example.

Schmidt will have a lot more options to choose from now. With Leinster there was a bit of a drop off but Ireland are strong in some areas so I'd imagine he'll rotate where Ireland have strength.

I don't think Schmidt will rotate, what I would hope is that he will approach selection with an open mind and give players who are performing well a fair chance, rather than stick with those who aren't.

Rotation for the sake of it benefits no one. The Autumn will be a good chance to look at players but I'd expect a fairly settled side come the 6N.

Use of the bench is vital though, Schmidt was superb at this with Leinster so hopefully there'll be a big change there.

rodders wrote:I don't think Schmidt will rotate, what I would hope is that he will approach selection with an open mind and give players who are performing well a fair chance, rather than stick with those who aren't.

Rotation for the sake of it benefits no one. The Autumn will be a good chance to look at players but I'd expect a fairly settled side come the 6N.

Use of the bench is vital though, Schmidt was superb at this with Leinster so hopefully there'll be a big change there.

Definitely agree that rotation for the sake of it is no benefit to anyone.  What I would hope is that Schmidt selects players in the best form that suit the style of play required to win the game.  No point selecting hard ground runners and choose to throw the ball around it you are stuck in rainy/muddy conditions.  If we have to play 'up the jumper' rugby then pick the players best suited for that.  If we need to beef up our starting XV for a forwards focused away fixture, then pick the side to do the job.  I just don't want us to have the argument on who is the first XV come the first game of the 6N and then never move from that lineup save for injuries.

I think Joe took too many Leinster players into the training camp this week.  He would have been better off drawing from some of the youths out of Connacht. I think JJ should have been in the mix from Munster and it seemed strange not to have Cave from Ulster.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Interesting quote from Jonathon Bell in the Times today.

"Whereas some Ulster supporters might fear a case of second season syndrome, there’s no panic in the camp. “Not in the slightest. It’s far too early in the season, and I know that’s clichéd and it’s easy to say that,” said Bell, who cited Joe Schmidt coming into the changing-room afterwards and reminding them that Leinster lost three of their first four under his command in 2010-11."

Good to see Schmidt is keeping close contact with the provinces.

 
 
One of my all time favourite Irish players

westisbest wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Interesting quote from Jonathon Bell in the Times today.

"Whereas some Ulster supporters might fear a case of second season syndrome, there’s no panic in the camp. “Not in the slightest. It’s far too early in the season, and I know that’s clichéd and it’s easy to say that,” said Bell, who cited Joe Schmidt coming into the changing-room afterwards and reminding them that Leinster lost three of their first four under his command in 2010-11."

Good to see Schmidt is keeping close contact with the provinces.

 
 
One of my all time favourite Irish players

I was a big fan also. I always likened him to Tim Horan. We had a few really exciting centres who for one reason or another didn't get a huge number of caps. I loved watching Phil Danaher for the big tackles, he packed a lot of punch. Vinny Cunningham who played for Mary's I think was a very skilful player but he was plagued by injury and only got one or two caps.

I remember the game at Murrayfield when he scored in the corner.
Had a good game, remember McLaren using all sorts of words describing him as he went past a couple of players.
 
Those were the days where we could'nt get the win against Scotland.

When Jonny Bell was playing schools rugby he was exceptionally quick and a very elusive runner. However, I always felt he bulked up a bit too much and although he became a brick wall in defence, he lost a bit of his elusiveness. He went too much Scott Gibbs when he could have stayed a bit more Jerry Guscott. Maybe the extra bulk on his frame contributed to some of his injuries problems.

He was a decent player alright. Remember him linking up very nicely with Denis Hickie on a number of occasions around the start of Hickies career when Irish rugby seemed to be starting to turn a corner.

He'll do what all international coaches do. He'll have a core of senior players who are always in the 23 when available and he'll rotate where there is scope to do so due to strength in depth.

Martin Moore had a good game for Leinster last night. They won a penalty try off the scrum and showed up well around the pitch. The Cardiff Blues scrum isn't the best but its another step forward for Moore. I don't think Ross made much difference when he came on.

Joe Schmidt said the squad will be decided after the second HEC match. He said that some players are in pole position while others have a bit of catching up to do. The way he was talking sounded to me like we could see a few changes from the training squad that was named the other day.

Training squad is just that. A training squad. Means nothing.

Notch wrote:Training squad is just that. A training squad. Means nothing.

Who do you think will get called in? A new tighthead for starters IMO. Martin Moore could. For Munter I think John Ryan is playing better than Archer and James Cronin is breathing down Kilcoynes neck. Mike Ross not looking great although it should be noted that its early days yet in the season and some players need some time to get up to speed.

Michael Allen looks to be a real bolter this year, Ulster's best back over the past 2 games. Talk of Pienaar moving to pastures new seems to have added a zip to Paul Marshall too.

Gilroy looked pretty good at fullback at the weekend, made one note able break and maybe would have scored if he'd backed himself rather than passsing, by contrast Zeeebo looked all over the shop for Munster and needs a kick up the backside.....

I hope Schmidt has been watching....

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 O'Driscoll
12 L. Marshall
11 Bowe
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Coughlan
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 O'Connell (c)
4 Ryan
3 Archer
2 Best
1 Cronin

Bench: Healy, Cronin, Ross, Henderson, Diack, P.Marshall, Jackson, Earls

Come on Joe wake up man.

Oh stop Rodders ffs...Trimble......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol it's pretty typical that you'd think that was the major problem with the team Rodders picked.

Jeebus how many tolken Munster men do you want?!

rodders wrote:Jeebus how many tolken Munster men do you want?!

Ah yeah but....Trimble....

Strauss out for the season.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/richardt-strauss-heart-1118155-Oct2013/

Gees bad news about Strauss.

I would not be surprised if Trimble was on the bench (Zebo and Bowe) to start.

He got a central contract last year, when they are becoming increasingly hard to come by. Kidney certaintly would have not have pushed for it which leads me to believe Schmidt likes what he brings

Is Gilroy injured? He was excellent last 6nations.

Struggling back from an injury.

Will miss Tigers but probably back for Montpellier.

Bottom line he is considered 3rd choice winger at Ulster - he will play a lot of games at 15 this year

Well we'll have a decent ref against New Zealand anyway.

Steve Walsh for Samoa.
Chris Pollock for Australia.
Nigel Owens for New Zealand