Wales vs France - Friday 21st Feb 8pm KO.

First topic message reminder :

Wales vs France - Friday 21st Feb 8pm KO.
 
Thought I'd start a thread seeing as our Welsh posters are few and far between this week.
 
 
Big, Massive, Huge game for both teams, how do you see it going?

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Rhodri Jones
4. AWJ (c)
5. Coombes
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Hook
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. James
17. Owens
18. A.Jones
19. Ball
20. Lydiate
21. Priestland
22. Phillips
23. Li Williams

 
 
News
 
- Wales centre Scott Williams has been ruled out of the rest of the Six Nations after injuring his shoulder in the 26-3 defeat by Ireland. (lesson to be learnt there for Mr Williams)
 
- Warburton and Gethin released to play for the Blues this weekend (Please note I used Warburton not WRUburton!)
 
- Guscott - "Wales should 'think about dropping Mike Phillips"
 
- "It's probably one of the worst performances that we've had since I've been involved," said Gatland.
 
- Wales scrum-half Mike Phillips has challenged One Direction's Niall Horan to train with the Welsh squad after the singer criticised him on Twitter.
 
- Ospreys duo Ashley Beck and Dan Baker called up for Wales training.
 
- Centre Jonathan Davies has been ruled out of Wales' Six Nations clash against France on Friday after failing to recover from a pectoral injury.  Osprey Ashley Beck, has also been ruled out.

Liam wrote:Only changes I see realistically from Gatland are:

Charteris for Coombs
North to 13
L.Williams to wing

Only different changes I'd make would be:

Biggar at 10
Webb at 9
Hook to 13 (played very well there around 2009 with Roberts)
Tipuric for Warbs

Liam,

I agree on what you think the changes will be as for me I would:

drop Jenkins for James
halfback as you suggest
North to centre

Team to be revealed tomorrow at 11am.

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/29623.php

Liam wrote:Only changes I see realistically from Gatland are:

Charteris for Coombs
North to 13
L.Williams to wing

Only different changes I'd make would be:

Biggar at 10
Webb at 9
Hook to 13 (played very well there around 2009 with Roberts)
Tipuric for Warbs

I like your thinking.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not denying he has changed games but its also not just Gatland who doesn't see Hook as first choice.  Previous club and country coaches have selected him in various positions so they can't all be wrong can they?

They could. One of them was Sean Holley, after all.

Usap fans voted Hook player of the year after a season at 10. They couldn't all be wrong too???

He's reverted to utility player as his club offered him a very lucrative, long term contract to do so. Claiming that he 'couldn't hold on to the 10 shirt' etc is silly. He held it for two seasons and earned glowing reviews from club management and French press alike.

Not very relevant to the team for Friday though. With Hook playing most of his rugby at 15, Biggar is the only sensible choice.

Priestland will get the nod, obviously.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Again not denying it but if he was a world class 10 like some say then trust me he would be playing 10 like Carter did.

Why are you harping on about 10 all the time, everyone is highlighting 15, strange!

Casartelli wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not denying he has changed games but its also not just Gatland who doesn't see Hook as first choice.  Previous club and country coaches have selected him in various positions so they can't all be wrong can they?

They could. One of them was Sean Holley, after all.

Usap fans voted Hook player of the year after a season at 10.  They couldn't all be wrong too???

He's reverted to utility player as his club offered him a very lucrative, long term contract to do so.  Claiming that he 'couldn't hold on to the 10 shirt' etc is silly.  He held it for two seasons and earned glowing reviews from club management and French press alike.

Not very relevant to the team for Friday though.  With Hook playing most of his rugby at 15, Biggar is the only sensible choice.

Priestland will get the nod, obviously.

Similar happened at the ospreys, Biggar was a good alternate fly half, hook could cover for the injuries to henso and Byrne we suffered at the Os and for Wales at that time...

As many many coaches have said before, he is such a good player you have to include him somewhere.

Who Gatland will pick and who should be playing are two different questions.

Gatland will pick more or less the same team north at centre L William on the wing. Gatland hinted this after the last game.

I go along with a number of posters and put Biggar at 10 but I differ I would not trust Priestland with the water bottles as he would kick them to the opposition. I would go for web on the bench at scrum half, halfpenny on the wing and Hook at fullback. Other changes S Lee on bench and R Jones with Charteris to replace Coombes.

glamorganalun wrote:Who Gatland will pick and who should be playing are two different questions.

Gatland will pick more or less the same team north at centre L William on the wing. Gatland hinted this after the last game.

I go along with a number of posters and put Biggar at 10 but I differ I would not trust Priestland with the water bottles as he would kick them to the opposition. I would go for web on the bench at scrum half, halfpenny on the wing and Hook at fullback. Other changes S Lee on bench and R Jones with Charteris to replace Coombes.

Question, why pick Hook at fullback where he has never had a good game for Wales and not at 13 where he has had some good performances? Leaving North and Halfpenny at their usual positions.

Good and sensible question, Hook has played most of this season at fb when he played there for Wales he was playing centre for his club. Halfpenny is a top class wing as well as fb and give us a bit of varity on the flanks. I suspect North will be at centre as we need him more involved.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:SD,

Not saying he's not doing well and good luck to him but you said yourself sometimes at 10 but mostly at XV so all this clamour that Hook must pay 10 for us is rubbish as he can't tie down the 10 shirt for his club and its not just Gatland who thinks that.

He is at fullback because USAP get more cash for playing their young French flyhalf. Plus USAP have limited fullback options.

He is also playing very well at fullback.

Tommy Allen is playing 10 for Perpignan, as Lopez (current 1st choice at 10) is injured, Tommy is Italian/Scottish. I really doubt that Hook is playing most of his rugby at 15 because he is the best 10! Whilst he has all the natural skills he has never looked the part at 10 and his recent performances for Wales have been memorable for the wrong reasons.

Priestland and Biggar are not the best 10s in the game but they are the best Welsh qualified ones, so whilst one should start the other should be on the bench.

Seagultaf wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:SD,

Not saying he's not doing well and good luck to him but you said yourself sometimes at 10 but mostly at XV so all this clamour that Hook must pay 10 for us is rubbish as he can't tie down the 10 shirt for his club and its not just Gatland who thinks that.

He is at fullback because USAP get more cash for playing their young French flyhalf. Plus USAP have limited fullback options.

He is also playing very well at fullback.

Tommy Allen is playing 10 for Perpignan, as Lopez (current 1st choice at 10) is injured, Tommy is Italian/Scottish. I really doubt that Hook is playing most of his rugby at 15 because he is the best 10! Whilst he has all the natural skills he has never looked the part at 10 and his recent performances for Wales have been memorable for the wrong reasons.

Priestland and Biggar are not the best 10s in the game but they are the best Welsh qualified ones, so whilst one should start the other should be on the bench.

Yes Lopez has been injured.

Hook has been at fullback because USAP have had limited full back options. As I said earlier, it's similar to what happened to him at the Ospreys.

Sorry Maes, if he was their best No10 then he would be played there. I agree he is great to have around the Welsh squad because of his versatility and he covers various positions from the bench but he's not first choice in any of them.

It's his relevance as a player who can cover a number of positions well that is the point, that is the value of him a player

I feel for Hook as his very high skill level means he's been dubbed and used as a utility player mainly because of how good a player he is in general. Just wish he could have been played at 10 for club and country consistently because we could have had a world class 10 on our hands. When he played 13 for Wales with Roberts he was outstanding, particularly against England at Twickenham but again got moved around.

Casartelli wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not denying he has changed games but its also not just Gatland who doesn't see Hook as first choice.  Previous club and country coaches have selected him in various positions so they can't all be wrong can they?

They could. One of them was Sean Holley, after all.

Usap fans voted Hook player of the year after a season at 10.  They couldn't all be wrong too???

He's reverted to utility player as his club offered him a very lucrative, long term contract to do so.  Claiming that he 'couldn't hold on to the 10 shirt' etc is silly.  He held it for two seasons and earned glowing reviews from club management and French press alike.

Not very relevant to the team for Friday though.  With Hook playing most of his rugby at 15, Biggar is the only sensible choice.

Priestland will get the nod, obviously.

Utter Tosh

Holley was the first coach who made a jersey.... any jersey for the "mercurial" Hook even though he wasn't/isn't the best player in any of the channels (10, 13 or 15), then Gatland and now Delpoux. They all seem to offer him the 10 role on a plate, then have to move him to 13, then have no option to move him to 15, then finally bench at best (in the case of Gatland)

He hasn't held the shirt for two seasons at all, and he has had possibly three games at 10 where he has earned rave reviews.

He was voted club man of the year by the fans mainly for his utter 100% commitment to the Perpignan team rather than his performance in the 10 shirt which has never been more than average, and he played only 70% of the games at 10 even in his first season by the end was shipped to 13 and then 15. Hook is the most expensive player on the French clubs books and he was brought in at 10 after his agent convinced them that he could ignite an expensively assembled backs division and manage the game from a forward driven 15, very much like Toulouse of a couple of years ago and Clermont Ave recently. He failed to deliver at 10 and Perpignan lingered in the bottom four of the table in his first season something that Perpignan under previous 10s (ending at the summit of the Top 14 two years out of three before Hooky arrived) hadn't experienced. Since then they have been in the bottom four twice out of three years (including this season) even though they now have a very rich sugar daddy attempting to do a Toulon and bringing in a kicking game manager (Lopez) "ala Wilkinson", with a perceived running flyhalf (Allan) to learn his trade alongside him.

With shades of the Ospreys bringing in Biggar when Hook started to stall during his flaky 08/09 season, Hook after a bright start in his first season with his new side, saw them becoming relegation contenders from Championship contenders during the previous seasons and yet again his employers had to look to another untried youngster (the then18 yr old Tommy Allan) and in desperation sign the ASM Clermont Auvergne bound Camille Lopez in 2013.

Basically the contract extension was to play FB NOT AS A UTILITY as they feel he hasn't the necessary skill-set at 10 or 13, to amplify this rationale they even tried to entice the 33 or is it 35 year old Budge James out of his SA retirement in Jan 2014 to cover 10 when Allan plays in the 6Ns. They also feel Hooky will not be in consideration for the 2015 6Ns, WC2015 squad or the 2017 Lions tour, hence will be a very experienced and available player over the next three years..... hence the contract extension.

Perpignan are currently yet again in the relegation dogfight (11th place on 38 points), that's 4 points above 13th placed Oyonnax who have played 2 games less.

That's the James Hook Experience to date.

I expected a bit more at the WRUcks.

Not many WRUns either.

Hook was first capped in 06 and still wasn't automatic 1st choice 10 so as I said its not just Gatland who didn't think he was the right answer.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not denying he has changed games but its also not just Gatland who doesn't see Hook as first choice.  Previous club and country coaches have selected him in various positions so they can't all be wrong can they?

They could. One of them was Sean Holley, after all.

Usap fans voted Hook player of the year after a season at 10.  They couldn't all be wrong too???

He's reverted to utility player as his club offered him a very lucrative, long term contract to do so.  Claiming that he 'couldn't hold on to the 10 shirt' etc is silly.  He held it for two seasons and earned glowing reviews from club management and French press alike.

Not very relevant to the team for Friday though.  With Hook playing most of his rugby at 15, Biggar is the only sensible choice.

Priestland will get the nod, obviously.

Utter Tosh

Holley was the first coach who made a jersey.... any jersey for the "mercurial" Hook even though he wasn't/isn't the best player in any of the channels (10, 13 or 15), then Gatland and now Delpoux. They all seem to offer him the 10 role on a plate, then have to move him to 13, then have no option to move him to 15, then finally bench at best (in the case of Gatland)

He hasn't held the shirt for two seasons at all, and he has had possibly three games at 10 where he has earned rave reviews.

He was voted club man of the year by the fans mainly for his utter 100% commitment to the Perpignan team rather than his performance in the 10 shirt which has never been more than average, and he played only 70% of the games at 10 even in his first season by the end was shipped to 13 and then 15. Hook is the most expensive player on the French clubs books and he was brought in at 10 after his agent convinced them that he could ignite an expensively assembled backs division and manage the game from a forward driven 15, very much like Toulouse of a couple of years ago and Clermont Ave recently. He failed to deliver at 10 and Perpignan lingered in the bottom four of the table in his first season something that Perpignan under previous 10s (ending at the summit of the Top 14 two years out of three before Hooky arrived) hadn't experienced. Since then they have been in the bottom four twice out of three years (including this season) even though they now have a very rich sugar daddy attempting to do a Toulon and bringing in a kicking game manager (Lopez) "ala Wilkinson", with a perceived running flyhalf (Allan) to learn his trade alongside him.

With shades of the Ospreys bringing in Biggar when Hook started to stall during his flaky 08/09 season, Hook after a bright start in his first season with his new side, saw them becoming relegation contenders from Championship contenders during the previous seasons and yet again his employers had to look to another untried youngster (the then18 yr old Tommy Allan) and in desperation sign the ASM Clermont Auvergne bound Camille Lopez in 2013.

Basically the contract extension was to play FB NOT AS A UTILITY as they feel he hasn't the necessary skill-set at 10 or 13, to amplify this rationale they even tried to entice the 33 or is it 35 year old Budge James out of his SA retirement in Jan 2014 to cover 10 when Allan plays in the 6Ns. They also feel Hooky will not be in consideration for the 2015 6Ns, WC2015 squad or the 2017 Lions tour, hence will be a very experienced and available player over the next three years..... hence the contract extension.

Perpignan are currently yet again in the relegation dogfight (11th place on 38 points), that's 4 points above 13th placed Oyonnax who have played 2 games less.

That's the James Hook Experience to date.

That's a story rather polished by your own disregard of the player. Not exactly accurate. I have watched a great deal of Top 14 rugby and Hook is playing very well, it seems that he and Byrne have adapted far better to life in France than any other current welsh player.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:At least with the France game last year, Wales had come back against Ireland well in the second half and got some confidence. However this year it was a total shut out. Is anger and hurt pride enough to turn around a woeful Welsh performance?

There were glimpses here and there but there was no continuity from Wales. Just when they started to string a few phases together they were snuffed out. I imagine France will see what Ireland did was not overly complicated but it was very effective. In a way PSA will be delighted as he seems to relish forward exchanges and keep things simple. If Wales make it easy for them, then it's going to be very easy to envision how France will play. PSA, on the other hand, will be very confident as to how Gatland wants his team to play so it comes down to who makes the fewest errors and excecutes the best. Despite playing away, France look the more likely on form to do that. Can Wales turn their performance around?

What is the French game plan?


They have had two wins without really dominating their opposition. They have a superb backline and a decent set piece. Two incredibly talented backrowers in Nyanga and Picamoles.

There frot row options are minus a prop and a hooker.

They have probably been the least likely to score from kicks at goal, non long range kicker, even at close the accuracy is not the level of Wales.

When you listen to the tv it seems the pundits and us fans differ greatly in our views on our kicking game. A lot of pundits say we have (or had) one of the most affective kicking games yet the majority of fans bemoan our kicking game or the in-accuracy of it at least.

For me its the old saying of a kick is only as good as the chase and I think that's where we let ourselves down as the chase is at best sometimes non-existent.

If we kick on Friday which I am pretty damn sure we will then we simply have to chase and pressure the catcher otherwise France will rip us apart, they may not have looked brilliant in attack on occasions but with the likes of Fofana Huyet and Ficku then they still have some serious threats.

You are right, our main problem last game was that the backrow and other breakdown winners weren't getting there and winning ball, POM was.

What we are doing with our kicking game is fine if the follow up is accurate.

That said, I think what most fans would agree in retrospect, with the clarity of post match hindsight, is that when the follow up is not working, that our flyhalf plays a different tactic rather than hoping that miraculously our follow up game might start working.

When the follow up isn't there, we would rather see controlled phase play to pressure the opposition.

Maesteg
That's not my disregard for the player at all.

I am stating facts not opinion.

Hook played in last weekends 50-19 hammering and could easily have been more. than 75, Hook scored 14 points but was dire in the defensive positioning and awful in the tackle... as was the rest of the team.

If you firmly believe that Hook this year has had more good games at 15 than average then give me some of them. I have a good mate who is a season ticket holder and he says the crowd love him but are becoming frustrated at his inconsistencies.

Byrne was as good as any 15 when he went to France and was first choice in a very good Clermont squad. It's only because of three excellent young players that he wasn't assured of first team placement hence he thought coming back to Wales was the best option.

Byrne at the time of leaving was arguably the best 15 in Wales... Hook was not even the 2nd choice 10 at the Ospreys (Biggar & Morgan ahead of him) let alone the best choice 10 in Wales.

Agree Hook has adapted to life in France well, but I think it's more to do with his salary and his very limited options back in his homeland.... Little bit like Shane Williams in the Japanese 2nd tier but very well remunerated rugby lifestyle.

I think you will find Roberts, Charteris and even that old dog Wyatt have adapted better.

France XV out:
Dulin - Huget, Bastareaud, Fofana, Bonneval - (o) Plisson, (m) Doussain - Lauret, Picamoles, Nyanga - Maestri, Papé (cap.) - Mas, Szarzewski, Domingo.

Subs : Mach, Forestier, Debaty, Vahaamahina, Chouly, Machenaud, Talès, Fickou.

Lauret replaces Le Roux otherwise same as the team that started against Italy

I thought Warburton had a decent game against Glasgow. Right pain in the arse fighting for the ball.

flyhalffactory wrote:Maesteg
That's not my disregard for the player at all.

I am stating facts not opinion.

Hook played in last weekends 50-19 hammering and could easily have been more. than 75, Hook scored 14 points but was dire in the defensive positioning and awful in the tackle... as was the rest of the team.

If you firmly believe that Hook this year has had more good games at 15 than average then give me some of them. I have a good mate who is a season ticket holder and he says the crowd love him but are becoming frustrated at his inconsistencies.

Byrne was as good as any 15 when he went to France and was first choice in a very good Clermont squad. It's only because of three excellent young players that he wasn't assured of first team placement hence he thought coming back to Wales was the best option.

Byrne at the time of leaving was arguably the best 15 in Wales... Hook was not even the 2nd choice 10 at the Ospreys (Biggar & Morgan ahead of him) let alone the best choice 10 in Wales.

Agree Hook has adapted to life in France well, but I think it's more to do with his salary and his very limited options back in his homeland.... Little bit like Shane Williams in the Japanese 2nd tier but very well remunerated rugby lifestyle.

I think you will find Roberts, Charteris and even that old dog Wyatt have adapted better.

I'm fairly certain Roberts has only played 2 or 3 times for Racing, who are playing dog awful.

Their game plan maesteg is overly conservative. They don't make enough of the ball their pack gets them. The backs inexplicably stand too deep too often and they don't show enough of the passing into space at pace that they are capable of.

They have only been stung into action against England and that was only near the end of the game. It would be refreshing to see them be more proactive and more attack minded. PSA's selections like the Monty Python Fat Basteareaud don't help their cause.

Are you just trying to say he is playing WRUbbish at the moment?

flyhalffactory wrote:... and even that old dog Wyatt have adapted better.

To be fair Chris has taken to France because they are happy for him to scrap on the pitch, and because drinking and eating are part of the culture.

lostinwales wrote:Are you just trying to say he is playing WRUbbish at the moment?

He crossed the WRUbicon a number of times.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:... and even that old dog Wyatt have adapted better.

To be fair Chris has taken to France because they are happy for him to scrap on the pitch, and because drinking and eating are part of the culture.

And most French smoke thirty gay loose a day too...! He fits in well.

IronMike wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Maesteg
That's not my disregard for the player at all.

I am stating facts not opinion.

Hook played in last weekends 50-19 hammering and could easily have been more. than 75, Hook scored 14 points but was dire in the defensive positioning and awful in the tackle... as was the rest of the team.

If you firmly believe that Hook this year has had more good games at 15 than average then give me some of them. I have a good mate who is a season ticket holder and he says the crowd love him but are becoming frustrated at his inconsistencies.

Byrne was as good as any 15 when he went to France and was first choice in a very good Clermont squad. It's only because of three excellent young players that he wasn't assured of first team placement hence he thought coming back to Wales was the best option.

Byrne at the time of leaving was arguably the best 15 in Wales... Hook was not even the 2nd choice 10 at the Ospreys (Biggar & Morgan ahead of him) let alone the best choice 10 in Wales.

Agree Hook has adapted to life in France well, but I think it's more to do with his salary and his very limited options back in his homeland.... Little bit like Shane Williams in the Japanese 2nd tier but very well remunerated rugby lifestyle.

I think you will find Roberts, Charteris and even that old dog Wyatt have adapted better.

I'm fairly certain Roberts has only played 2 or 3 times for Racing, who are playing dog awful.

Hook is one of the few performers in a poor team. I watch the top 14. He is a good player playing well at ten and fifteen.

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Liam Williams (Scarlets); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Sam Warburton (CAPT – Cardiff Blues), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath Rugby), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), James Hook (Perpignan).

Mike Phillips dropped! Woooo

Biggar not starting! Boooo

Kind of pointless having Biggar and Hook on the bench isn't it?

Notch wrote:Kind of pointless having Biggar and Hook on the bench isn't it?

Who else would take the 23 spot with Williams, Beck and JD2 out and Williams starting.

Biggar covers 10, Hook covers 12,13,15, Halfpenny covers 11 and 14

If you had someone like Lee Byrne, Hanno Dirksen or Jonathon Spratt they'd offer a bit more impact. I understand Ashley Beck is now injured? Even Sam Davies has looked good at fullback although he'll probably end up being a more natural 10.

It's just that Hook plays 10 predominantly these days. So I'm not convinced he's going to come on in the centres or at fullback and be that impressive.

Notch wrote:

It's just that Hook plays 10 predominantly these days. So I'm not convinced he's going to come on in the centres or at fullback and be that impressive.

???

Hook has played almost exclusively at Fullback for Perpignan this season

Bit of a watershed moment for this Wales team, Phillips being dropped for this game. I don't think Gatland has ever dropped him from a 6N game before (at least since the 2008 6N when Peel was still on the scene)? Let's hope Webb shows the benefit of a different type of scrum half.

Cadair Idris wrote:Bit of a watershed moment for this Wales team, Phillips being dropped for this game.  I don't think Gatland has ever dropped him from a 6N game before (at least since the 2008 6N when Peel was still on the scene)?  Let's hope Webb shows the benefit of a different type of scrum half.

If the different type of scrum half implodes as an experiment quickly enough in the first half then I'd suspect 'ol Phillips will still get more time than Webb through the 80 minutes.

wales606 wrote:

Notch wrote:

It's just that Hook plays 10 predominantly these days. So I'm not convinced he's going to come on in the centres or at fullback and be that impressive.

???

Hook has played almost exclusively at Fullback for Perpignan this season

Hook isn't 1st choice for Perp so how he predominantly plays 10 is beyond me, they use him as XV then cover 10.

As for the side:

harsh on Coombs to be dropped totally

James should have started and I hope Jenkins, Lydiate and Warburton all have had a rocket up their backsides with warnings to knuckle down and get on with it.

Phillips dropped for me is bit of a scapegoat as the forwards were terrible last time but its happened and lots wanted Webb so please lets not have the why did he drop Phillips calls if it goes wrong.

Centres - well we know what style we are going to play and with Basteruad passed fit then will be some big hits coming in.

As for the coaches, well they have shown faith in the main (Phillips aside) so if their faith isn't being repaid then I hope they have the balls to sub players no matter what your name is or what time in the game it is.

All that aside teams picked and I will now get behind them C'Mon Cymru.

SecretFly wrote:

Cadair Idris wrote:Bit of a watershed moment for this Wales team, Phillips being dropped for this game.  I don't think Gatland has ever dropped him from a 6N game before (at least since the 2008 6N when Peel was still on the scene)?  Let's hope Webb shows the benefit of a different type of scrum half.

If the different type of scrum half implodes as an experiment quickly enough in the first half then I'd suspect 'ol Phillips will still get more time than Webb through the 80 minutes.

Agreed - which is why I very much hope Webb does not implode. Wales need to move on from Phillips, no question. He should have gone after the Lions tour.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Notch wrote:

It's just that Hook plays 10 predominantly these days. So I'm not convinced he's going to come on in the centres or at fullback and be that impressive.

???

Hook has played almost exclusively at Fullback for Perpignan this season

Hook isn't 1st choice for Perp so how he predominantly plays 10 is beyond me, they use him as XV then cover 10.

As for the side:

harsh on Coombs to be dropped totally

James should have started and I hope Jenkins, Lydiate and Warburton all have had a rocket up their backsides with warnings to knuckle down and get on with it.

Phillips dropped for me is bit of a scapegoat as the forwards were terrible last time but its happened and lots wanted Webb so please lets not have the why did he drop Phillips calls if it goes wrong.

Centres - well we know what style we are going to play and with Basteruad passed fit then will be some big hits coming in.

As for the coaches, well they have shown faith in the main (Phillips aside) so if their faith isn't being repaid then I hope they have the balls to sub players no matter what your name is or what time in the game it is.

All that aside teams picked and I will now get behind them C'Mon Cymru.

It is a bit harsh on Coombs who has never let us down but I suspect Gatland has just concluded that good player though he is, he's just not big enough to be an international 2nd row and Ball and Tipuric on the bench both provide more impact in the 2nd row/back row respectively.

wales606 wrote:

Notch wrote:Kind of pointless having Biggar and Hook on the bench isn't it?

Who else would take the 23 spot with Williams, Beck and JD2 out and Williams starting.

Biggar covers 10, Hook covers 12,13,15, Halfpenny covers 11 and 14

Should have been an extra forward (Coombs) in on the bench instead of Hook.

Priest covers 15, 12.
Halfpenny covers 11, 14.
Sanjay covers 15.
Cuthbert covers 13 (if really needed).

Then on the bench

Phillips covers 9, 12, 13
Biggar covers 10
Tipuric covers 6, 7, 12, 13

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Notch wrote:Kind of pointless having Biggar and Hook on the bench isn't it?

Who else would take the 23 spot with Williams, Beck and JD2 out and Williams starting.

Biggar covers 10, Hook covers 12,13,15, Halfpenny covers 11 and 14

Should have been an extra forward (Coombs) in on the bench instead of Hook.  

Priest covers 15, 12.  
Halfpenny covers 11, 14.  
Sanjay covers 15.  
Cuthbert covers 13 (if really needed).

Then on the bench

Phillips covers 9, 12, 13
Biggar covers 10
Tipuric covers 6, 7, 12, 13

That's ridiculous,

Preistland, Cuthbert and Tipuric have never played centre
Phillips has played centre once,

In fact, Dan Biggar is the last one to have played in the centres!

This is an international match, not a preseason friendly!

I'd tend to have to agree with you wales606.  Saying a player 'covers' a certain position or positions doesn't make it so.  This is an international against a not great organisational-wise but still lethal French side in terms of natural individual talent.

You can't just hope that players will seamlessly move to unfamiliar positions if need be and excel there.

Halfpenny can cover outside-half, IMO.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25641131

Biggar can cover full-back, IMO.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-fly-half-dan-biggar-play-6237015

Again, there's a difference between being able to stand in that position and catch a ball and excelling in that position.

Look what happened when Australia were forced to ship Liam Gill to the centre, we scored a try down his channel about 5 minutes later. Hook is the only player who has proven he can cover 10, 12 and 15 at international level. Priestland and Biggar can probably cover 15 but thats about it.

IronMike wrote:Hook is the only player who has proven he can cover 10, 12 and 15 at international level.

What about 13?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8574647.stm

wales606 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:.....
Priest covers 15, 12.  
Halfpenny covers 11, 14.  
Sanjay covers 15.  
Cuthbert covers 13 (if really needed).

Then on the bench

Phillips covers 9, 12, 13
Biggar covers 10
Tipuric covers 6, 7, 12, 13

That's ridiculous,

Preistland, Cuthbert and Tipuric have never played centre
Phillips has played centre once,

In fact, Dan Biggar is the last one to have played in the centres!

This is an international match, not a preseason friendly!

It is an international, so look where your real weakness is and address it. We were totally schooled in the pack last week, and the French will do the same to us. We need to have the reinforcements ready for up front.

The backs can be covered by other backs, (and Tipuric   ) we don't need Hook and Biggar on the bench.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wales606 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:.....
Priest covers 15, 12.  
Halfpenny covers 11, 14.  
Sanjay covers 15.  
Cuthbert covers 13 (if really needed).

Then on the bench

Phillips covers 9, 12, 13
Biggar covers 10
Tipuric covers 6, 7, 12, 13

That's ridiculous,

Preistland, Cuthbert and Tipuric have never played centre
Phillips has played centre once,

In fact, Dan Biggar is the last one to have played in the centres!

This is an international match, not a preseason friendly!

It is an international, so look where your real weakness is and address it.  We were totally schooled in the pack last week, and the French will do the same to us.  We need to have the reinforcements ready for up front.

The backs can be covered by other backs, (and Tipuric   ) we don't need Hook and Biggar on the bench.

Our pack needs to be far better than we were against Ireland but I don't think the answer is to have 6 forwards on the bench - we should expect our starting pack to perform better.

It would be a massive risk to have just Phillips and Biggar on the bench to cover the backs. If we had a couple of early injuries in the backs like we did against SA in November we'd be in trouble.