America's dislike for Wlad.

Was watching the Stervine v Arreola fight yesterday and was amazed at the level of veiled abuse aimed at heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitscko. This was by no means a classic confrontation but both (especially Arreola) put up a decent effort worthy of a heavyweight title fight. Statements such as ''At last a heavyweight contest to be proud of'' was being thrown around as if us fans did not understand what EXACTLY they were banging on about.

Do you think its fair?

with Wlad nearing the end of his career how do you think the yanks will remeber him....if they do?

Its clear Wlad is not respected but with America still holding major influence do you think his legacy will be harmed......where it counts?

Well, lets be honest, his career set wouldn't sell out if they only made a dozen copies.

Scottrf wrote:Well, lets be honest, his career set wouldn't sell out if they only made a dozen copies.

Haha funny....

but sadly true. Not looking forward to Wlad's hits DVD anytime soon.

I used to like Wlad but he became too much of a politician for me always having to say the right thing, saccharine stuff. His spiel borders on salesman's patter with a large dollop of melted cheese.

As a fighter he bored the hell out of everybody except the Germans.

And Jeffreyrowley. The Germans and Jeffreyrowley.

It all depends on whether or not any of these American pretenders such as Wilder or Jennings get in the ring with Wladimir before he goes. If one of those two were to bite the bullet and actually get in the ring with Wlad and lose to him, then the States will have to begrudgingly acknowledge that he's a notable Heavyweight champion in historical terms, particularly if the likes of Wilder and / or Jennings picked up titles in the years afterwards (or if Wilder beats Stiverne for the WBC belt and then loses to Wladimir in a unification bout).

On the other hand, if one of them were to beat Wladimir before he calls it quits, for the Americans it'll just confirm what they already knew and allow them to revel in it; that Wlad was just a charade of a champion, merely a by-product of America temporarily getting complacent and taking its eyes of the Heavyweight division.

If he retires without facing them, then he'll be stuck somewhere in the middle. He'll never be affectionately regarded and any praise given to him by the American masses will be through gritted teeth, but if that turns out to be the case I'm sure there'll be some of the Holmes effect taking place. Lewis was nowhere near as highly thought of when he retired as he is now, as well - and that's only taken a decade.

For me Wlad's main problem is that his brother has reigned with him for most of his championship career..

Makes Boxing look stupid when the greatest prize in sports can be shared by two brothers !!............

He'll be respected and time will be kinder.......Don't think anybody thinks or will think Wlad was a charade of a Champion..

As for Wilder he lacks the charisma of a Tyson and has the problem that Boxing has killed itself with all the politics possibly beyond redemption....

Hasn't got the opponents either to project him..........Only Joshua has potential marketability wise..

Don't think America dislikes Wlad.......Just think it doesn't care about him....

Bert Sugar didn't like the Klitschko's, a cure for insomnia he called them. There's an interview with him after one of the brothers fights and he doesn't hold back.

I have alway's thought of the Klitchko's has 2 good fighters in one of the worst era's of Heavyweight boxing.The opposition they have faced is substandard and they don't set the world elite.

In many cases they labour towards victory.

Put prime Tyson or Lewis in this era and I don't think any of the Klitchko's opponents go past 6 rounds.

The American audience was turned off Wlad thanks to the ridiculously boring unification fight with Ibragimov. Wlad hasn't fought in the US since, and with good reason. He stank the place out (not that his opponent was any better) and if you're being marketed as the TOP heavyweight in the US, the audience wants excitement. Big fighters = big power and fantastic finishing potential. Think great heavies, you think of Frazier, Foreman, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis. Most were American. Lewis had most of his title fights in the US. All knew how to knock over opponents and frequently did.

In his biggest potential money-spinner Wlad, at least in the eyes of the US fans, bored them to tears and was not asked back. Not a surprise. Winning and domination is not necessarily entertainment.

Great story teller and personality though he was, ol' Bert wasn't too forthcoming in giving modern fighters much credit. When Lewis retired, he was asked where he'd rate Lennox as a Heavyweight in the all-time stakes, to which he answered, "Oh, 18th or 19th, right alongside Corbett."

Scottrf wrote:Well, lets be honest, his career set wouldn't sell out if they only made a dozen copies.

...right up there with Mayweather and Ward's.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Well, lets be honest, his career set wouldn't sell out if they only made a dozen copies.

...right up there with Mayweather and Ward's.

You have a lot to learn.

Aye, while I respect Wladimir and rate him as a more talented fighter than some others, it has to be said that round three of Mayweather-Corley alone had more excitement in it than the last seventeen consecutive title fights that Wlad has won combined.

Problem with Wlad is he's hard to dislike as well as being Ukrainian..

Some fighters are huge because they are loved and some like Eubank because they are loathed..

Wlad is neither and a boring fighter

Wlad deserves some of the criticism but as a fighter he has been pretty much flawless (post Brewster of course) but I don't think time will treat him so well.

When we look back at a fighters career we look to the highlights that we all remember but unless we look back at his fantastic ring walks then there is nothing much to get excited about a bit like sweet pea.

Think Truss pretty much nailed it, unsurprising, I suppose with him being a northerner. Wlad is 6'6, 250lbs, hits like a truck, but he's not the personification of Ivan Drago. Hes a nice enough lad, people don't want to see him lose badly enough, and while he has a hot girlfriend, An enviable record, more than enough money, and a full head of hair while nearing 40, he just doesn't exude that "men want to be him" factor.

I think Vitali also hasn't helped. Before the Lewis fight, the consensus among American boxing scribes was that Vitali was limited and would lose to Lewis quite decisively, in a sharpish manner. But Wlad? he'd "cold clock Lewis", as Sports Illustrated put it. Of course 2003 didn't quite turn out that say, Vitali was very game against Lewis, while Wlad got dropped like the town drunk by Sanders. Also, the manner with which Vitali had demolished people Wlad struggled against hasn't helped. Looks bad when you get knocked out by Purrity, who'd lost five of his last six, or whatever, and your brother toys with him a few years later. Looks even worse when Sanders smashes you, and a few months later doesn't win two rounds against Vitali. Similarly, tough to take you seriously when you go life and death with Sammy Peter, then a few years later, your brother comes back from a four year hiatus, and puts Peter to the sword.

Nico the gman wrote:I have alway's thought of the Klitchko's has 2 good fighters in one of the worst era's of Heavyweight boxing.The opposition they have faced is substandard and they don't set the world elite.

In many cases they labour towards victory.

Put prime Tyson or Lewis in this era and I don't think any of the Klitchko's opponents go past 6 rounds.

If Tyson and Lewis had been around in this era, they'd have become so demotivated they'd have likely retired by now. Wlad actually fears the men he fights (as woeful as they are), which is why he keeps whipping himself into unusual shape (for someone in their late 30's).

Some might feel that's a plus for Klitschko (being a consumate professional and all) but to me, it shows his true level. The Tyson who rolled into the ring looking as though he'd just fallen out of a nightclub against Douglas would still have wiped the floor with the likes of Wach, Leapai and that Italian guy.

It's easy to look good against poor fighters. Klitschko looks imperious but still fails to impress (or inspire). That's a rare gift!

Scottrf wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Well, lets be honest, his career set wouldn't sell out if they only made a dozen copies.

...right up there with Mayweather and Ward's.

You have a lot to learn.

Al least Klitschko knocks people out.

Although Andre Ward's highlight reel can put you to sleep.

And as for Mayweather, as excellent as he is, he's the opposite of exciting - people only watch in the hope of seeing him lose.

I find him exciting. Not everyone likes Gatti-Ward. Buy anyway his SFW style is night and day to how he fights now. To group it suggest judging his fights by his reputation.

Everyone can appreciate Mayweathers defensive skills, but my lord it's a boring style. Apart from the shoulder roll and some fast but powder puff single shots what else could you put in a highlight-reel of the last 10 years? If Mayweather hadn't put on the bad-boy act he'd be nowhere.

His highlight reel wouldn't just be of the last ten years it would be of his whole career, the early part of which he was destroying guys like Manfredy, Hernandez, Chavez, Gatti and Corrales.

Not everyone appreciates the blood and guts stuff like Gatti/Ward, watched them once but found them low in ability so never rewatched them. Morales and Barrera or Marquez and Vasquez is a different kettle of fish altogether, combines everything, all four were marvellous technicians but also like to please their adoring Mexican fans.

You don't spend $70 in the hope somebody loses especially when they're fighting Robert Guerrero who never stood a chance, a large part of it comes to appreciating the way he fights.

To be fair, it would be pretty easy to do a highlight reel from the Hatton, Marquez, Cotto, Oscar fights etc.

He looked like a seasoned pro from his debut with remarkable speed, accuracy, combination punching etc. To compare it with Wlad is a bit of a joke.

Klitschko has beaten all in front of him and is unstoppable in the HW division and a class above the rest and this is what hurts him. Because he is so good when he faces and easily beats top challengers in Haye, Povetkin, Ibragimov etc people then say that those fighters were rubbish because klitschko made them look rubbish. The fact is they were not rubbish they were just well below klitschko's level.

If Klitschko had been involved in a brawl with Haye and had managed to KO him in the 11th round after a grueling fight I am sure people would rate Haye higher than what they rate him now because he lost 118-110 in a fight klitschko dominated.

In my opinion both Klitschkos will be seen as top 15 HWs.

If Wlad beats Wilder, Fury, Stirvene and Pulev then he may be pushing a top 10.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Klitschko has beaten all in front of him and is unstoppable in the HW division and a class above the rest and this is what hurts him. Because he is so good when he faces and easily beats top challengers in Haye, Povetkin, Ibragimov etc people then say that those fighters were rubbish because klitschko made them look rubbish. The fact is they were not rubbish they were just well below klitschko's level.

If Klitschko had been involved in a brawl with Haye and had managed to KO him in the 11th round after a grueling fight I am sure people would rate Haye higher than what they rate him now because he lost 118-110 in a fight klitschko dominated.

In my opinion both Klitschkos will be seen as top 15 HWs.

If Wlad beats Wilder, Fury, Stirvene and Pulev then he may be pushing a top 10.

Never. Ever.

Like they say you can't polish a turd, imagine the damage Tyson would have done to this lot.

Scottrf wrote:To be fair, it would be pretty easy to do a highlight reel from the Hatton, Marquez, Cotto, Oscar fights etc.

He looked like a seasoned pro from his debut with remarkable speed, accuracy, combination punching etc. To compare it with Wlad is a bit of a joke.

Fair do's to Hatton for giving it a go but the other fights were pretty boring. Has Mayweather ever been in an exciting fight? You'd have to say the Maidana fight was probably as good as it gets.

Wlad and Mayweather are extremely similar in the way that they simply refuse to trade punches with their opponents. They are both incredibly good at spoiling their opponents work rather than fighting with them. As far as popularity goes if Wlad Klit put the Mayweather bad-ass act on and disrespected all his American opponents he would be a megastar in the US. If you have a boring style the only way to become marketable is to become the bad guy that everyone wants to see lose - Mayweather.

Mayweather was never a wrecking-ball in his early days, he couldn't draw flies to s**t until after he fought Gatti - his first PPV.

Who cares, he sells out football stadiums in Europe. Only Amercian who could do numbers like that is Mayweather. Funny how they throw these snipes at Wlad wen the fight in question is being held in Teddy Atlas' tool shed.

Even if an American was to win a belt, they still wouldn't beat Wlad in the numbers he pulls.

Why does he need the US stamp of approval??

How will Mayweather be viewed in the Philipines when he retires?? Don't really think he will be fussed and neither will Wlad.

Funny how Wlad gets criticised for his fights by US pundits yet their own heavyweight world hope is fighting idiots off the internet just days before

Wlad will get the credit he deserves. His fights are brutal to watch but he is head and shoulders above the rest and has beaten the best (other than his bro) in the division in the era he rules/has ruled.

You're just plain wrong they are nothing alike, Mayweather is a master of his trade whereas Wlad is a hugger scared stiff of getting hit. Mayweather rarely spoils, he did against Maidana because he needed to but do yourself a favour and watch his 130lb fights.

Yea Wlad really bricked it against Haye, wait, hold on....or was it the other way around.

And how is Wlad not a master of his trade?? He found a method of not gettin beat and he has yet to BE beat. He hugs, leans, pushes etc but it works. I hate watching it, but it's seen him win.

He did brick it Dee, lets be honest the great heavyweights would have stepped it up and knocked Haye out but Wlad had the face of a worried man every time he got close.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Yea Wlad really bricked it against Haye, wait, hold on....or was it the other way around.

haha anyone who says wlad bricked it against haye is a troll haha

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Yea Wlad really bricked it against Haye, wait, hold on....or was it the other way around.

haha anyone who says wlad bricked it against haye is a troll haha

A troll you say?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're just plain wrong they are nothing alike, Mayweather is a master of his trade whereas Wlad is a hugger scared stiff of getting hit. Mayweather rarely spoils, he did against Maidana because he needed to but do yourself a favour and watch his 130lb fights.

When Mayweather rolls his shoulder/turns his back and/or uses his forearm on an opponent that is spoiling, as well as all that holding he did vs Maidana/Hatton etc. Both Klit and Floyd do the same thing just Klit does it uglier. Both just grind opponents down slowly taking zero risks in the hope to get a late stoppage or big points win - boring but damn effective.

Jesus christ I don't think you've watched a single one of his fights, to call Mayweather a spoiler is to ignore 95% of what he does inside a boxing ring. His defence is based around movement, anticipation and pure boxing technique, it has nothing to do with spoiling. Wlad grabs, pushes, leans, holds and hits all of which is spoiling, using a forearm is dirty but it sure as hell is not a spoiling technique.

Sitting in the pocket relying on your defence for the majority of your fights is taking a risk, Mayweather relies on being in range to counter something Wlad doesn't do, they are nothing alike at all.

You never watched the Wlad vs Haye fight. That is obvious, so I can't debate with you over this sorry.

Standard Wlad fight Dee, jab, jab, jab, hold, jab, jab, hold, jab, jab, right hand repeated over and over again, real master of his trade being so one dimensional isn't he.

Mayweather has been boring ever since he moved to welterweight. Uninspiring and risk averse in and out of the ring.

Klitschko was also more exciting about a decade ago before he got splattered a few times and lost his bottle.

Got to be honest here, MC - I cannae believe some of the comparisons you're drawing between Wlad and Floyd here!

Let's get one thing straight - if people insist on calling Mayweather "boring" then in my opinion it's a nailed-on certainty that Wladimir is even MORE boring. Mayweather hasn't been involved in any top-class fights, usually because he just outclasses the man in front of him and never gives them a chance, but I'll tell you what - he's been involved in less certified, absolute stinkers than Wlad has.

As for this stuff about "Mayweather refuses to engage in punching with his opponents" or "grinding opponents down," let's be sensible here, lads. Wlad's a good boxer, but a very uninspiring one. But hey, he's there to win and he's found a way to make that a nigh-on certainty whenever he gets through the ropes. But he fights all of his best opponents in the same way. I can't believe anyone would deny that Mayweather has consistently shown a hell of a lot more versatility and dimensions in the way he's gone about taking opponents apart in the past.

I don't really mind Wlad's style he's had in some fights, didn't really criticise him against Haye (although he did break the rules a fair amount) and don't particularly care if he's boring. He hugs in close because he has no inside game, fine.

But the Povetkin fight was a mix of cheating and more cheating with no boxing thrown in. It was an absolute disgrace, and I can't understand how anyone can try and defend it, or the ref could let it happen. Lewis-Akinwande was a hell of a lot better to watch.

It's not a gameplan, it's not mastering any craft, it's pushing the officials you've hired to breaking point and a complete shambles. I much prefer breaking the rules in a way which is actually fighting (but not the wrestling throws he often employs). It's always been part of how he fights, and tolerable in small doses but it's creeping in more and more.

To compare that crap with Mayweather is just nonsense.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Standard Wlad fight Dee, jab, jab, jab, hold, jab, jab, hold, jab, jab, right hand repeated over and over again, real master of his trade being so one dimensional isn't he.

He obviously is a master of his trade, he's been champ for 10 years and barely lost a round.

Mayweather in not boring. If you can't appreciate real Boxing (hit and not be hit back) I suggest go down to your local boozer on a Saturday nite to see louts stand toe to toe.

A master of his trade ???.................

Frank Bruno beat every chump out there before Witherspoon.......

John Mugabi beat every chump out there and was 27-0 27 before Hagler......

Greg Haugen was 20 -0 before Pazienza........

All masters of their trade because they were unbeaten at the time....................I mean who cares about the opposition right ?

Do me a favor..

To be fair Klitschko has been calling out Mayweather for years but Mayweather won't move up to HW to fight him so Kitschko was left with the next big thing to fight and that was Haye.

Klitschko and I mean Wlad has destroyed H/W boxing.

As champion he should be the marquee name for the whole sport. With an exciting heavyweight champion comes the lucrative effect on the rest of the divisions. Lower weights would make more money and therefore we would see better competative fights.

So far Mayweather and Pac have carried the sport and they have made big bucks but its just them.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A master of his trade ???.................

Frank Bruno beat every chump out there before Witherspoon.......

John Mugabi beat every chump out there and was 27-0 27 before Hagler......

Greg Haugen was 20 -0 before Pazienza........

All masters of their trade because they were unbeaten at the time....................I mean who cares about the opposition right ?

Do me a favor..

Are you talking about Mayweather or Klitschko?

For people saying how exciting Mayweather is give some examples of rounds which were really exciting?

Even when Floyds hands were better and he could punch with a bit more power he still couldn't attract more than 10 fans to a fight.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A master of his trade ???.................

Frank Bruno beat every chump out there before Witherspoon.......

John Mugabi beat every chump out there and was 27-0 27 before Hagler......

Greg Haugen was 20 -0 before Pazienza........

All masters of their trade because they were unbeaten at the time....................I mean who cares about the opposition right ?

Do me a favor..

Are you talking about Mayweather or Klitschko?

For people saying how exciting Mayweather is give some examples of rounds which were really exciting?

Even when Floyds hands were better and he could punch with a bit  more power he still couldn't attract more than 10 fans to a fight.

It's obvious you've only watched a few of his fights, do your own research.

I've watched almost all of his title fights - at the time they happened too. Not like so many obvious Johnny come latelys who've flicked through the back catalogue with their rose tinted specs. I remember him busting his hand against that guy and having to take a knee, and lifting Chico back up off the canvas, and the gifted decision vs Castillo and how it stalled his career for years, and how he had to use Gatti's popularity to get mainstream, and probably the only fight where he deviated from the standard Mayweather plan vs Judah, and getting hurt vs Corley and Mosley, and through all that there wasn't one exciting round.

Calling Mayweather a fighter is a long shot seeing as he hasn't ever really been in a fight. Mayweather is a boxer, and quite obviously the greatest 'boxer' of all time. Someone so averse to taking risks cannot be described as exciting, it is the very opposite of the definition of the word.