New Zealand v England 3rd test & the 2nd test review

First topic message reminder :

1000 posts and the 2nd test thread is blocked time to move onto the 3rd test in Hamilton.

What are England's chances of securing a win?
Could NZ win convincingly?
Will it be close again?
Who will play?
How much will the referee affect the game?

Let the banter begin..................

Oh, and feel free to discuss test's 1 and 2.

Are the ABs making England look poor, or are the English just a little bit tired after a loooong season

Otagolad wrote:Tired?  Never an excuse for the ABs on the Autumn tours

have you heard the English team say that they are tired then?

I'm fairly certain i've heard many AB fans say that in the Autumn

Quins, it was a rubbish pas by Burns but Marler didn't even have his hand out for the pass. Pretty much sums up England's first half.

Otagolad wrote:Hood83 - poor sport is all I can say to your comment. The way the AB's are playing I'm not sure any team would live with them so accept that they are on a different planet tonight or else pipe down.

Was that in response to the yellow card comment? It was a poor decision, wasn't it? I think I did say the ABs have been excellent and we've been atrocious, this is what you get when those two collide. The difference between the two sides is a combination of the ABs being brilliant and massively stepping it up, and England being woeful and massively stepping down. At our best we'd still be way down tonight, but do you really think this is our best?

What do you want me to say?

twenty nine sux at HT.
ABs red hot and taking England well and truly to the sword.

and we're next.... gulp!

There are a lot of teams who'd fancy their chances of beating an England side playing like we are today.

england need to keep the ball close to the ruck. NZ are not committing many players and are flooding the defensive line. pick and go. force them to commit more players, then that will create some space for midfield runners.

Otagolad wrote:Tired?  Never an excuse for the ABs on the Autumn tours

Erm...yes it has. It's just you've only lost once.

And it's not an excuse...it's a fact. They aren't fit enough to keep up with the All Blacks generally but especially at the end of our season. We can just about at the beginning of ours and the end of yours. It's a reality of having mixed seasons across the hemispheres.

No Nathan im not a defeatist Englishman...im actually a very positive Englishman but im REALISTIC!

We have shown through the 6n that we have areas of our game that is not god enough...and the AB's are exposing them brutally now.

And the 28-27 game simply hid the fact they blew us away n the 2nd test as well!

Our one on one defence is poor! As shown in the 6n also.
Our Attack is ponderous and lacking as shown here and at times in the 6n also.

Whats defeatist about me speaking the truth!

That's what this england team keep preaching!

formerly known as Sam wrote:Quins, it was a rubbish pas by Burns but Marler didn't even have his hand out for the pass. Pretty much sums up England's first half.

maybe because he wasnt expecting to get it? marler makes a better decoy runner than 1st receiver i think. suspect he does too.

ebop wrote:Are the ABs making England look poor, or are the English just a little bit tired after a loooong season

80% the first one, 20% second

Well Hansen wanted a good start for a change. Penalty to England after a scrum mistake from an England mistake kicking off. The midfield was exploited and that's how NZ got the roll on. Should be up by a couple more tries but credit to England for scrambling.

Feel for England. This looks to be a test too far and NZ can sympathise with that. Let's see if they can muster something positive from this test and leave the tour on a good note. They just have to forget about that first half and clear it from their minds. Win the second half on points. If NZ get a roll-on, they will be ruthless as they have wanted to do this all series and have been prevented from doing so by great England defence.

Fair call that nathan. England are not poor all of a sudden, the ABs just seem to have clicked tonight.

I missed watching the first 2 test, when England lost by 1 point.

Watching this game i wished i had missed this as well. The Abs well and truly deserve there lead.

The second half could be a total Black wash, if England dont pull their socks up.

Well, the second half is about character for England. Last 40 minutes to salvage something if they want to avoid a very, very long flight home.

Theyve proven they have that every step of the way this tour. No reason they can't here.

The ABs however, have stepped up again and as predicted, Englands mid field is getting cut to shreds.

GeordieFalcon wrote:No Nathan im not a defeatist Englishman...im actually a very positive Englishman but im REALISTIC!

We have shown through the 6n that we have areas of our game that is not god enough...and the AB's are exposing them brutally now.

And the 28-27 game simply hid the fact they blew us away n the 2nd test as well!

Our one on one defence is poor! As shown in the 6n also.
Our Attack is ponderous and lacking as shown here and at times in the 6n also.

Whats defeatist about me speaking the truth!

That's what this england team keep preaching!

Really?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well Hansen wanted a good start for a change. Penalty to England after a scrum mistake from an England mistake kicking off. The midfield was exploited and that's how NZ got the roll on. Should be up by a couple more tries but credit to England for scrambling.

Feel for England. This looks to be a test too far and NZ can sympathise with that. Let's see if they can muster something positive from this test and leave the tour on a good note. They just have to forget about that first half and clear it from their minds. Win the second half on points. If NZ get a roll-on, they will be ruthless as they have wanted to do this all series and have been prevented from doing so by great England defence.

You're right - England have to aim to win the half. There is a lack of belief leading to a lack of commitment.

No England are not poor suddenly...but neither are the complete article that so many have been saying since the 6n.

That my argument.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well Hansen wanted a good start for a change. Penalty to England after a scrum mistake from an England mistake kicking off. The midfield was exploited and that's how NZ got the roll on. Should be up by a couple more tries but credit to England for scrambling.

Feel for England. This looks to be a test too far and NZ can sympathise with that. Let's see if they can muster something positive from this test and leave the tour on a good note. They just have to forget about that first half and clear it from their minds. Win the second half on points. If NZ get a roll-on, they will be ruthless as they have wanted to do this all series and have been prevented from doing so by great England defence.

A nice and generous comment. It's nice to hear someone recognise that England have been a lot worse today, and that this is at least partly a factor, not just the usual stuff about 'the ABs just used the 4 other gears they didn't bother to in the last two games'.

nathan wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:No Nathan im not a defeatist Englishman...im actually a very positive Englishman but im REALISTIC!

We have shown through the 6n that we have areas of our game that is not god enough...and the AB's are exposing them brutally now.

And the 28-27 game simply hid the fact they blew us away n the 2nd test as well!

Our one on one defence is poor! As shown in the 6n also.
Our Attack is ponderous and lacking as shown here and at times in the 6n also.

Whats defeatist about me speaking the truth!

That's what this england team keep preaching!

Really?

Do they or do they not make a point of saying no gallant loser tags etc? They're an honest team...think their fans need to match that.

GeordieFalcon wrote:No England are not poor suddenly...but neither are the complete article that so many have been saying since the 6n.

That my argument.

But this performance is so far away from anything I've seen England do this season, how does it reinforce your views?

savea has scored two tries but he has a tendency to overrun. is catching the flat pass slightly behind himself. needs to eliminate that from his game as thats prob why smith passed it forward. but what a game he is having. that pickup was superb.

Sorry but what was the difference between Billy's high tackle on crude, and nonu on yarde? Both the same yet only one is a yellow?
And the incorrect join on the ruck? Pure bollox from one of the worst nh refs.

That said the all blacks are on another planet today, totally unplayable

Hansen justified in his faith for Cruden and Jane. I think Fekitoa has run strong but needs to look for the pass and avoid the tackle if he can because he's often getting isolated. Savea shows just how key a player he is for us on attack. The big man has such lovely hands for a big man. His pick up tonight reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l17RMiZSK_k

By the way, if people are superstitious and would like to blame something other than the players, i've been dipping in and out of all three games - I don't think I've seen England score more than a penalty in all three! I'm clearly completely toxic!   

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Hansen justified in his faith for Cruden and Jane. I think Fekitoa has run strong but needs to look for the pass and avoid the tackle if he can because he's often getting isolated. Savea shows just how key a player he is for us on attack. The big man has such lovely hands for a big man. His pick up tonight reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l17RMiZSK_k

I've said before he's the player I think I'd like Manu to be, more rounded but just as quick and powerful.

Look guys im not being the negative anti England guy here...im being honest.

We have improved loads but there are areas of our game that has been overhyped!

I made all these claims through the 6n as well not just after this one game.

We want t be the best...we want to take on the AB's but to do that we have to be honest and work on the areas we're weak at

NZ are beatable. But not if you lets them get a couple of tries ahead. Once their tails are up, and their confidence is up, they are pretty much unbeatable. but under pressure, anyone can crack.

c'mon england, win the half.

Hood83 wrote:

Otagolad wrote:Hood83 - poor sport is all I can say to your comment. The way the AB's are playing I'm not sure any team would live with them so accept that they are on a different planet tonight or else pipe down.

Was that in response to the yellow card comment? It was a poor decision, wasn't it? I think I did say the ABs have been excellent and we've been atrocious, this is what you get when those two collide. The difference between the two sides is a combination of the ABs being brilliant and massively stepping it up, and England being woeful and massively stepping down. At our best we'd still be way down tonight, but do you really think this is our best?

What do you want me to say?

Otagolad, where'd you go? You're not celebrating already are you?!

Bit harsh to make eastmond the scapegoat

Great try England

yarde in, well done.

usual kiwi cheating at rucks. they are going to do it with impunity with this lead unless Garces is really careful.

Is Haskell even on the bench? Basically, is there anyone we can bring on to muscle up?!

Great start to the second half

Good start from England, the come back is on

Harsh on Eastmond. Burrell gets cut down by the ABs smallest back and turned over on his first touch of the ball.

Good play Youngs to orchestrate that try. Just need a lot more of that.

Hood83 - was commenting on your comment that the yellow card made it a no contest.

Whilst I can be critical I can be complimentary.

That was the type of attacking play they need to show more of. Getting behind the AB's offloading....all at PACE!

Agree quins. You place NZ under pressure by putting points on them and lets see if England can repeat that try and see how NZ respond.

lets have a warning please. this deliberate blocking/offside/sealing off has to be stopped. i absolutely frikking hate it.

Otagolad wrote:Hood83 - was commenting on your comment that the yellow card made it a no contest.

OK. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound whiney or to imply it was much of a contest prior to that. I think it was a poor decision but there you go. You were miles up already.

i predict 2 scrum collapses and a penalty try for eng...

hmmm, England were going forward then...

oops, got that one wrong

quinsforever wrote:lets have a warning please. this deliberate blocking/offside/sealing off has to be stopped. i absolutely frikking hate it.

lining up more pitiful excuses I see quins...good on you. (Note youre the only one doing it).

oh my god

Fantastic start from England but great scrum ABs

Quins you'll burst a blood vessel if you ain't careful

Yep, the only way the All Blacks could have turned that is by going backwards or twisting it, which illegal. But why can't we just use the ball faster?