SL v Eng...2nd test headingley

First topic message reminder :

Starts tomm and it seems the indisposed Prassanna the WK is a blessing in disguise.
Chandimal will keep wickets and will allow Lanka to play an extra batsman and given that the pitch is expected to assist seamers , it will help Lanka to have some extra batting cushion.

the other thing SL should and will look at is Kulasekhara...too gentle in speeds.......Lakmal was probably their first choice and unlikely  to have recovered from his hamstring strain.
They should play Dhamika prasad who bowls in excess of 140kph.....and captain Angelo should be willing to use himself a bit more as a seamer


Sri Lanka wicketkeeper Prasanna Jayawardene will be unavailable for selection for the second Test, thanks to a finger injury to his right hand, which he sustained while keeping during the first day at Lord's.

He will be replaced in the squad by batsman Kithuruwan Vithanage, with Dinesh Chandimal likely to take over the gloves at Headingley. The injury will not prevent Jayawardene from batting in the second innings of the first Test.

Excluding Bangladesh - Kumar Sangakarra has a career average of 52 away from home...

Averages 64 away from home without the gloves - it's remarkable...

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:And Angelo taking his best test haul and I do like that!.

mathews is not too diffrent from Binny and shows the values of having a 5 bowler
sky commentatrs showed how the ball from jagging and jumpign off the length when mathews was bowling

pitch has deterioated from one End it seems

But KPF, Angelo can bat, and makes the side as a batsman first.

so can Binny..he plays for karnataka as a barsman and averaged 47 last season with crucial knocks in difficult games

SL did far more with the ball. Give that and engs batting this looks their game.

Prior really is keeping very poorly this game, so many byes to add to the horrific drop

MOEEN!

Oh dear, Thirimanne is awful.

MOEEN!!!!!!

Moeen ali is as good a spinner Eng have after Swann and without considering Monty.

this match has seen the ebb and flow that only test match cricket can produce.
Eng still favourite ton win....but not certain winners yet.

Mahela has to deliver the inning of his life and the lower order has to wag for them to get inot a position of strength

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:And Angelo taking his best test haul and I do like that!.

mathews is not too diffrent from Binny and shows the values of having a 5 bowler
sky commentatrs showed how the ball from jagging and jumpign off the length when mathews was bowling

pitch has deterioated from one End it seems

But KPF, Angelo can bat, and makes the side as a batsman first.

so can Binny..he plays for karnataka as a barsman and averaged 47 last season with crucial knocks in difficult games

  

--106 on Lanka with 6 wickets left.

--the 6 wkts left is not a comfort....both sides have shown they can collapse and lose 6 wkts for pretty little.

--so Eng's best case scenario is to bowl 7 tight overs for little...get the new ball and skittle out Lanka....say with a lead of 150 runs

--Lanka's best case scenario is for Mahela to get a 100...lower order hangs around and they add another 150....with an overall lead of 250+

--a 4th inning chase between a 150 to 260 ish is what Eng would end up with in any case.
and though 250+ is getting on the realms of difficult...it is definitely achievable given the quality and more importantly depth that Eng has with the bat.

--but should Eng hit their best case i.e 150 chase and still lose it ( low probability but possible)...then Cook won't surive

The morning session has been pretty tough to bat in so far. So England should be able to wrap this up pretty quickly in the morning. Sri Lanka really need 250+ to harbour any hopes of threatening England and I honestly don't see that happening.

If Sanga was still at the crease, this match would've been hanging in the balance. England way ahead at the moment with the new ball due in 7 overs and wickets having fallen in clusters on this pitch. Get one and I can see the last 5 folding under less than 50 runs..

Some cloud cover expected too, apparently. So England should be able to roll 'em over quite cheaply.

kingraf wrote:Excluding Bangladesh - Kumar Sangakarra has a career average of 52 away from home...

Averages 64 away from home without the gloves - it's remarkable...

Boosted by his 1400+ runs against Pakistan at 74 in matches played in Pakistan/UAE.

In matches played in Aus, Eng, NZ and SA

Sangakkara has 2311 runs at 45. 6 hundreds in 28 matches.

Only 20% of his runs have come in countries where the bowlers are aided by swing or bounce.

Sangakkara has 70% of his runs on subcontinental featherbeds.

His stats flatter him as SL rarely want to play outside Asia.

And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

BTW, for all those missing our very own Mike Selig and his detailed and insightful posts, you can follow him on Twitter....

https://twitter.com/mikeselig/with_replies

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

makes him an HTB

So another good day of test cricket. Sri Lanka 106 a head with 6 wickets remaining in the 2nd innings. The track is beginning to offer something for spinners, and Sri Lanka have one of the best in the business in the present day in their ranks. But 106 is not enough for Rangan Herath to work with. They do need to at least double that if Herath has to have a chance. If they are to double and more the lead, its down to 3 batsmen, the 2 who are in now, and then Dinesh Chandimal. The lower ordr has shown very little resistance so far in this series unlike the England lower order.
Moeen Ali's double strike not only included Sangakkara, but that resulted in Jayawardene and Mathews slowing down at a crucial time of the innings. At a time when the new ball was a few overs away, SL would have wanted to put a few more on the board than they eventually managed in the day, but Mathews and Mahela have taken the lead beyond 100 and would be hoping to survive the morning session. If Sri Lanka manage to bat close to tea tomorrow, then England will be in a rather uncomfortable place when they start the 4th innings chase, but if they can bowl them out in the first session or soon after lunch, then they should have a sub-180 chase which Lanka having Herath, should not be all that problematic for England who has Stuart Broad coming in at 9 and Liam Plunkett at 10.
By the way Ali's double strike was so well timed. Had he taken out Sangakkara, he wouldn't have got Thirimanne because the bowler from the other end would have seen to it that he somehow gets on strike in the next over!. Not a test standard player, not at all.

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

The reason he's got an average of 45 is due to playing such few Tests in the 4 countries named.

He's played 28/124 only in those 4 countries.

When you only play two Test series, like the ongoing one, a couple of flat decks helps Sangakkara boost his average.

Gerry SA wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

The reason he's got an average of 45 is due to playing such few Tests in the 4 countries named.

He's played 28/124 only in those 4 countries.

When you only play two Test series, like the ongoing one, a couple of flat decks helps Sangakkara boost his average.

So, basically, you're saying that Sangakkara struggles on pitches where there is movement or bounce, but when it's pointed out that 45 isn't a bad average on such pitches (especially given that he played a number of times as a wicketkeeper/batsman, his average purely as a batsman in those 4 countries is 59), you say "Well he must have played on some flat decks to boost his average". In other words, he can't win with you, can he?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

The reason he's got an average of 45 is due to playing such few Tests in the 4 countries named.

He's played 28/124 only in those 4 countries.

When you only play two Test series, like the ongoing one, a couple of flat decks helps Sangakkara boost his average.

So, basically, you're saying that Sangakkara struggles on pitches where there is movement or bounce, but when it's pointed out that 45 isn't a bad average on such pitches (especially given that he played a number of times as a wicketkeeper/batsman, his average purely as a batsman in those 4 countries is 59), you say "Well he must have played on some flat decks to boost his average". In other words, he can't win with you, can he?

"If you remove all the times he's scored runs, he hasn't scored any runs"

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

makes him an HTB

An average of 45 in alien conditions is certainly not "HTB" material. If he averaged 45 both home and away, would he have been called a HTB? No. So why is he being frowned upon just because he is so ridiculously good at home? He is still very good away, unlike Mahela or say, Sehwag (who average in the 30s outside the subcontinent). By your logic, someone averages 60 at home and 50 away is a HTB whereas someone who averages 40 away and 30 at home is a great??

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

The reason he's got an average of 45 is due to playing such few Tests in the 4 countries named.

He's played 28/124 only in those 4 countries.

When you only play two Test series, like the ongoing one, a couple of flat decks helps Sangakkara boost his average.

So, basically, you're saying that Sangakkara struggles on pitches where there is movement or bounce, but when it's pointed out that 45 isn't a bad average on such pitches (especially given that he played a number of times as a wicketkeeper/batsman, his average purely as a batsman in those 4 countries is 59), you say "Well he must have played on some flat decks to boost his average". In other words, he can't win with you, can he?

Prior to the current series, Sangakkara averaged mid 30s in England.

These two dead pitches have helped him boost his average.

Same as his record in NZ. Twice he's average 20. One series he averaged 159.

He's often bullied sides on flat pitches.

His legacy will be remembered as the greatest FTB. Nothing more.

This is a dead pitch? Ok. No more comments from my side.

ShankyCricket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:And what the hell is wrong with an average of 45 in those 4 countries? He is better at home but that doesn't make him a FTB. An average of 45 in those 4 countries is still more than respectable unlike Mahela who averages 30.

makes him an HTB

An average of 45 in alien conditions is certainly not "HTB" material. If he averaged 45 both home and away, would he have been called a HTB? No. So why is he being frowned upon just because he is so ridiculously good at home? He is still very good away, unlike Mahela or say, Sehwag (who average in the 30s outside the subcontinent). By your logic, someone averages 60 at home and 50 away is a HTB whereas someone who averages 40 away and 30 at home is a great??

HTB I defined earlier are the ones who have a significant difference between home and away averages and are from the 50+ club.
and sangkarra has about a 12 to 13 point diffrence compared to Dravid who has a higher away average and Tendulkar , Kaillis who have equal averages for example.

those with 40 overall average...aren't worth even discussing   

Whatever floats your boat I suppose. This is someone who rates Stuart Binny and Kevon Cooper as test cricketers.

ShankyCricket wrote:Whatever floats your boat I suppose. This is someone who rates Stuart Binny and Kevon Cooper as test cricketers.

AFTER they have proven themselves.......even a 10 year old barely beginning to follow-up cricket can figure out that they are test cricketers or not,

I believe the call on a new talent is worth making before he has hit the big stage.


and the aforesaid has nothing to do with HTB discussions.

Stating the obvious, but England need quick qickets this morning. I really don't fancy their fragile and somewhat inexperienced batting line-up to chase down 200+.

liverbnz wrote:Stating the obvious, but England need quick qickets this morning. I really don't fancy their fragile and somewhat inexperienced batting line-up to chase down 200+.

Hi Liver - I noticed Trebs also used the word ''fragile'' in his post yesterday. Forgive the pedantry on my part but I'm not convinced it's ''fragile'', apart from probably Cook at the moment. ''Somewhat inexperienced'' - generally, yes but Robson and Ballance, in particular, should be strengthened by their recent Test centuries. As for Jordan, ''the kid can bat'' - praise from no less than Sir Geoffrey himself. For some experience, look no further than Bell and Prior.

I therefore don't think we'll fold straightaway if we come under pressure when batting. That said, it won't be easy if we have to get 250+ (and bl**dy difficult if we're looking at over 300), especially if a large part of our run scoring has to be done done on a day 5 track. As well as getting runs today (obviously), it'll also help Sri Lanka to use up time at the crease so as to push our final innings more into the last day.

Hi guildford

Think I have also used the term "fragile" re the England batting lineup. Based more on recent events than a lack of belief in their capabilities as individuals ... Actually think it looks potentially handy and certainly deep ; but even in this short series the top order has wobbled twice and the latter half folded once...

I would expect them to chase down 200 odd (especially as if Sri Lanka can get up that far it would suggest the pitch holds few terrors ) ; but I would probably not be wagering any of my houses - I don't have as many as Sir Geoffrey to spare   

New ball better do the trick : these two don't seem to be having any trouble with Plunkett and Jordan with the old one. In fact they are racking up the runs at an alarming rate , making that 200 plus lead quite likely.

Alright Gilford -  I wasn't trying to have a dig at England's batting (I know you never accused me of as much). I just think with Cook in poor form, and Robson, Ballance, Ali and even Root inexperienced when it comes to chasing they rely heavily on Ian Bell for a touch of know-how at the moment - and even he is still prone to throwing it away - so that explains the 'fragile and somewhat inexperienced' opinions. Prior is still finding his feet again although he'll be buoyed by his 1st Test back.
 
I suppose you could easily turn it the other way around and say it's a great oppourtunity for these guys to gain experience and for Cook to find some form. However, batting 4th is never easy, espeicially when England are not full of confidence following recent series and even moreso because it's Headingley. England have only chased over 200 twice here, one of which was a dead rubber.

Very very poor from England so far this morning, just no pressure applied and allowed Mathews and Jayawardene to get in with easy singles and four balls

Anderson seems to be struggling here, a severe limp

KP_fan wrote:--106 on Lanka with 6 wickets left.

--the 6 wkts left is not a comfort....both sides have shown they can collapse and lose 6 wkts for pretty little.

--so Eng's best case scenario is  to bowl 7 tight overs for little...get the new ball and skittle out Lanka....say with a lead of 150 runs

--Lanka's best case scenario is for Mahela to get a 100...lower order hangs around and they add another 150....with an overall lead of 250+

--a 4th inning chase between a 150 to 260 ish is what Eng would end up with in any case.
and though 250+ is getting on the realms of difficult...it is definitely achievable given the quality and more importantly depth that Eng has with the bat.

--but should Eng hit their best case i.e 150 chase and still lose it ( low probability but possible)...then Cook won't surive

Eng missed their best case scenario and seemingly by a long margin as the lead got to 150 almost by the time they took the new ball.

and now Lanka pushing towards their best case scenario...still some work to do ...but Mahela looking good.

odd ball is jumping off the length and constant movement...so it's not like the pitch has flattened .......Lankans are playing well and getting their slice of luck also

Hi Alfie and Liver - there doesn't 's actually seem to be that much difference between us. We all appear to agree that chasing 250+ in the last dig here won't be easy and that 300+ will be very difficult.

I just don't think our batsmen generally will be overly daunted by such totals and so won't become rabbits in front of a speeding or spinning vehicle That's not though to say we'll get there and, if our bowling doesn't start to bite soon, we could be facing the higher of those totals.*

* And with that Anderson strikes! Very much needed. Now for the last 5 ....

Very poor shot by Mahela thay

Anderson snares a much needed, deserved, and overdue wicket.

What an absolutely atrocious use of a review!!!!

Fantastic catch by Ballance in the deep removes Chandimal  

OK so now we are in the midst of the collapse that happens once per inning on this pitch it seems.

will they stretch the lead to 200 now ?

Next ball Prasad goes to another fantastic catch in the deep by Root!

What are the sri Lankans doing!!!

Yorkshire combines to swing the ballance back in England's favour! Plunkett 1 short of a 10wm. Who'd have thought that 16 months ago?

Prior drops Mathews (very hard chance but still)

Olly wrote:Prior drops Mathews (very hard chance but still)

Didn't carry. Or at least , if he had gathered it , the third umpire would certainly have ruled it not out.

KP_fan wrote:OK so now we are in the midst of the collapse that happens once per inning on this pitch it seems.

will they stretch the lead to 200 now ?

"They" meaning Matthews ...not expecting too many runs from the rabbits ; but Matthews is doing a good job here. I reckon they'll get it over 200 all right. Think Sri Lanka will want 250 though , to give Herath plenty of runs and time to work on England's nerves.

Matthew massacring English bowling.....he's had a super series so far and making runs that will be extremely critical

SL go pass 300 in the 2nd innings. They are 303-7, leading by 195.

Matthews having a good match , isn't he ? Bit shocked he actually took Test Match wickets ; but he is a handy bat in this situation.

alfie wrote:

KP_fan wrote:OK so now we are in the midst of the collapse that happens once per inning on this pitch it seems.

will they stretch the lead to 200 now ?

 
... Think Sri Lanka will want 250 though , to give Herath plenty of runs and time to work on England's nerves.

Alfie - that's been my thinking for a little while. 250 probably leaves things evenly poised. 300 would have given Sri Lanka the upper hand but that seems too far north now.

Watching Broad here, there is no way he if near fully fit, barely getting to 80mph

Olly wrote:Watching Broad here, there is no way he if near fully fit, barely getting to 80mph

more often than not he is bowling at 80mph +/- 2mph
somethimes he is in the 85mph + ...that is more an exception than the norm.

his bowling is nicely sitting up....even hertah pulls him for a FOUR