India-A in Aus

in a 3 day ( or is it a 4 day game) India finished with 304-6 on D1
not bad given the opponents was of the quality of Mitch Marsh, Faulkner,Cutting, Henriques

Jiwanjot, Ojha and Tiwari got runs and per reports Tiwari looked very good and missed a 100 for the taking.

I think Jiwanjot should be opening instead of Uthappa....
while Uthappa might work in limited formats as an opener....Jiwanjot is probably a better longer format opener.

The pace line of Yadav, Bumrah and Kulkarni to be kept an eye on....this will be the feeder to our main tour in Eng should some of our pacers break down on the long tour.

far more serious and comeptitive this game than India's charade practice game or the seemingly scripted MCC/ world XI game

Except it has zero interest in this country. Cricket goes into hibernation in winter here don't forget. Everyone is only interested in AFL and both rugby codes right now. Unsurprisingly, there is zero mention of this "A" Series on the news and general media. You'd have to dig for it.

I will one day make sense of AFL, looks a wonderful sport once you understand it.

the good thing is from our point of view ....when there is no competitive cricekt in India...this series in Aus will be a feeder if back ups were required

KP_fan wrote:the good thing is from our point of view ....when there is no competitive cricekt in India...this series in Aus will be a feeder if back ups were required

Absolutely. A bit disappointed to see Kulkarni and Rayudu play ahead of far better test prospects like Anureet and Aparajith though. Good to see Tiwary do well. Runs here should keep Nohit on his toes.

Keeping Rohit Sharma on his toes? That's impossible!. He'll have some stupid line that he think is funny as a standard response, and would continue to edge away graciously!.

msp83 wrote:Keeping Rohit Sharma on his toes? That's impossible!. He'll have some stupid line that he think is funny as a standard response, and would continue to edge away graciously!.

And criticising his "girlfriends".

in an unbelievable display Ojha turned his overnight 80 odd to a huge double hundred batting with lower order and taking Ind past 450.

and then Indian seamers take out 4 top order aussies for 70odd.
and this is against a good quality Aus side.

Australia A ended the day at 126-6. After a fine show from Naman Ojha, the bowlers did well as well. Young Jasprit Bumrah was the best of the lot with 3 strikes. Umesh Yadav(a bit expensive), Pragyan Ojha and Dhawal Kulkarni all took 1 wicket each.

OMG...Mitch Marsh cracks a double hundred and Aus_A wk gets a 174
was the pitch flown in from Colombo   

KP_fan wrote:OMG...Mitch Marsh cracks a double hundred and Aus_A wk gets a 174
was the pitch flown in from Colombo   

Nah, just a typical Qld pitch, KP_f.   
(it might make the news... maybe 1 in 100 chance but there's too much other sport going on)

All the good work of the previous couple of days undone today.
Worthy successors and back-up to the seniors surely!.

So tomorrow is the last day?

Bugger! (for all of us)   

Naman Ojha adds a 2nd innings unbeaten 101 to his first innings effort of 219, and Ambati Rayudu also scores a ton in the 2nd innings as the game ended in a draw.
Runs for Ojha, Manoj Tiwary, Jiwanjot Singh and Rayudu, and a 5for for young Jasprit Bumrah.
Pragyan Ojha was massively disappointing, and Umesh Yadav also didn't come to the party that much. KL Rahul could have done with a good score too. Robin Uthappa might be a viable limited overs option, but not that much in the longer formats. It should have been Jiwanjot and Rahul opening the innings and an all-rounder like Rishi Dhawan should have come in the middle order in place of Uthappa.

what a game for Naman Ojha

Would be great to see some of these Indian guys playing in Sheffield Shield teams. Not IPL I know but they would gain more vital knowledge of the playing conditions here. There are many local kids of Indian descent playing cricket in the District comp near me here in Sydney so it would not surprise me at all to see one or three of them donning the Baggy Green in the coming years.

T2
Forrest and Faulkner save Aus from complete shambles
Mishra and Yadav bowled well for India....look at Yadav's wicket....all good fast bowlers wickets


View wickets UT Yadav 20 5 42 3 2.10
7.4 to Hughes, short and rising outside the off stump, Hughes tries to defend and gets thin outside edge to keeper 27/1
17.2 to Doolan, good yorker length delivery on the middle stump, Doolan tries to flick it and misses it completey and it is BOWLED. 38/2
67.1 to Forrest, fuller length delivery outside the off stump, Forrest cuts it and gets the edge to Naman Ojha 197/4

and Mishra good leggies 4-fer..he should have been the second spinner ahead of Ashwin in Eng

View wickets A Mishra 27 3 114 4 4.22 (5nb)
27.2 to Lynn, flighted delivery, Lynn goes for drive and gets the edge and straight to Uthappa at slip 64/3
76.1 to Faulkner, flighted delivery down the leg stump, Faulkner sweeps it in the air and nice catch taken by Naman Ojha. Faulkner scored 94 runs well played 248/5
78.2 to Marsh, flighted delivery, Marsh tries to slash and gets edge straight to Uthappa at slip 251/6
84.2 to Whiteman, good flighed delivery, Whiteman tries to flick it to on side and gets beaten, BOWLED 282/7

now Umesh Yadav smashes a 66 ball 90 in the era of tailenders.....and Ojha smashed a 3rd hundred in 3 innings.

where is the pitch imported from??
Trentbridge  

Yadav the nw great all-rounder for India!? What on earth is happening!? 5-83 at a very decent economy rate in an innings where the opposition scored over 400, then a 66 ball 90 that provided his side an unlikely first innings lead after the top order wasted starts. KL Rahul and Tiwary scored half-centuries, Rayudu, Jiwanjot and Aparajith got starts, Rayudu into the 40s, and 20s for the other 2. Not picking Umesh for the England tour was a mistake at the time of the selection, and these performances are only adding further proof.
But its Naman Ojha who is making this series count big time. 3 innings, and 3 tons including a double. Won't be surprised if he displaces Saha as the back-up wicketkeeper in the Indian team.

MSP what's the chances that Yadav will be added to the Indian Test squad?

He's certainly very fast, and better suited to Tests than Ishant or Aaron.

chance is very little of Yadav...because Dhoni..how he operates....
he has either players in the squad who he would like to be in the palying 11
OR substandard reserves....who cannnot challenge his pets in the 11......with the argument " who else is there"

eg.the back-up for Jadeja is NOT Ojha or Bhajji or Mishra or a other emerging spinner......but a proven useless overseas Ashwin

the replacement for Ishant is not Yadav but rather unproven Pandey or a non-reverse swing bowler Pankaj

KPF, Mishra is also proven useless overseas and otherwise in test cricket. Ojha never had a chance overseas, but he has technical issues with his bowling action in recent times and he hasn't been as consistent as he used to be in Indian conditions earlier. If people were expecting Ravindra Jadeja to run through sides and finish every game with a 5for when playing overseas, then what can be said? He did his bit in the first locked up an end, and never got to bowl in the 2nd innings. He would have had a wicket in the first had it not been for Virat Kohli dropping a chance that he should have taken, don't forget.

msp83 wrote:KPF, Mishra is also proven useless overseas and otherwise in test cricket. Ojha never had a chance overseas, but he has technical issues with his bowling action in recent times and he hasn't been as consistent as he used to be in Indian conditions earlier. If people were expecting Ravindra Jadeja to run through sides and finish every game with a 5for when playing overseas, then what can be said? He did his bit in the first locked up an end, and never got to bowl in the 2nd innings. He would have had a wicket in the first had it not been for Virat Kohli dropping a chance that he should have taken, don't forget.

Mishra took 3-fer in his first test in Eng and made 43 an 83 with the bat in the other.

he was asked to stop runs and bowl wide outside leg stump from round the wicket to restrict.

Mishra is a good leggie...in the same class as Danish Kaneria......there is enough evidence and form to give him a longer run....of say 3 more tests...

Ojha......has done well in Eng in county cricket.......technical issues ? where he pickes wickets every time he gets to play.

Jadeja.......not a 5-fer each time.......but 1 or 2 wicket on an average when he bowls 35 overs

Mishra has a horrible bowling average of 43 after playing 13 test matches. 8 of these games were played in India, in fact his home and away averages are more or less same, meaning he was equally useless home and away.

Well, its not only about averages as we all know, but after 13 tests, they do give a pretty decent idea about the level of performance. Ishant Sharma averages 37 after playing more than 50 test matches, if anyone say that he's a much better bowler beyond what the numbers say, then there is a massive problem.

msp83 wrote:Mishra has a horrible bowling average of 43 after playing 13 test matches. 8  of these games were played in India, in fact his home and away averages are more or less same, meaning he was equally useless home and away.

averages can be misleading........as in case of Mishra his best game against BD does not count when you filter for home averages....so with BD he should be in high 30s as home average.

there are a number of players who IMPROVED TREMENDOUSLY over time...such as Zaheer and Srinath...their average was for a long time hovering around high 30s...and then they hit a purple patch and pulled their averages closer to 30 and finishing as two of Indias best all time seamers.

If the selectors go by ONLY AVERAGE and not the visual evidence of high quality bolwing they showed in Duleep Tropy and County cricket to earn a recall....they would have never played again.

Visual evidence of improvement has to be paid attention to be selectors....and Mishra is in that category

As is Binny if you see his performances with the bat in high quality Group- A for last two seasons ( where he averaged closer to 50) and the tough conditions in whihc his runs came...you would see the real potential and value of Binny...which a casual look at his overall FC average of 36 may not indicate

and b.tw Ishant has improved...you look at his last 5 games or so and he has been consistent
I believe Ishant has turned the corner...and except for shami's lack of rhythm there is no seam bowling worry for India.

If yadav was available now I would play him in place of Shami and not Ishant

Kumar has proved everyone wrong and turned into a star bowler and batsman.
he got the reverse swing( wkts of Prior and Stokes) and pretty much the only bowler on both sides who could get conventional swing going...the wkts of Broad and Plunket were testimony to his both ways conventional swing with new ball and he has troubled .

Kumar the best bowler on both sides.

India's strengths

--top order batting has been better
--seam bowling has matched reverse and bettered new bowl bowling
---lower order batting

India's weakness

--has been spin only....jadeja's gotta do more than merely keeping one end tight when he is the 4th bowler
as a 5th bowler he could get away keeping it tight only

--dhoni as captain attacking too much once the 7 wikets were down...had he continued in the same choke the runs vein that had gotten him first 7 wkts...Eng lower order would not have gotten so many.
He tried to blast them out.....and thats where he lost the plot and once he loses the plot....his attention and focus drifts

Mishra has been a bit up and down in Ranji as well, not really been consistent enough to merit a test recall. But here he has done well, and when India play at home and play 3 spinners including the all-rounders Ashwin and Jadeja, I might consider Mishra's leggies over Ojha who is a left-armer like Jadeja, depending of Mishra's consistency. An attack of Ashwin, Jadeja, Mishra, Kumar and Shami, India bat all the way to 10, and has a lot of options and variation for home conditions.

It can be a choice between Shami and Yadav, they both can reverse the ball and has good pace as well.

Game ends in a draw as Australia A reached 202-0 in their 2nd innings with Phillip Hughes scoring an unbeaten ton.
The outstanding player from this tour for India is Naman Ojha and the one to lookout for is young Jasprit Bumrah. The former had an absolutely fabulous series, scoring 3 tons in as many visits to the middle, one of them a double, 2 of them unbeaten.
The latter had a quiet 2nd game on a seemingly unforgiving pitch, but was quite good in the first game.

msp....now Naman Ojha is another example of what I have said on this thread and elsewhere....stats don't reveal all.......

before this Aus A series he has a FC average of barely touching 40 ( now with these big innings it has gone upto 42)........and that was also in a weak zone for MP and on generally Patta pitches.

and how he has batted here is amazing....and he is here because he had a good Ranji season....and the form he is in....he seems like a top world class batsman by far

Naman Ojha is another example of the phenomenon of Ranji cricketers who continuously improve season by season....from mediocre to top quality to international standards....over several seasons.

and when selected based on the last one of two FC seasons and current form they are o finternational quality.....their overall Ranji averages might still look mediocre.

So we should not judge a player only by his Ranji / FC average.....we have Binny and Ojha as examples in front of us.

In the same vein we should not judge Ishant on his overall career record but rather how he is in the present form....and in the last 6 tests he has taken about 30 wickets and this includes the 2 patta pitches in India and one in Trentbridge.

I do believe Ishant has turned the corned and within the next 10 tests or so we will see his averages climb down to something below 35.
He is strong and has stamina to be the workhorse that Dhoni needs

KPF, Ishant, even when he took those 3 wickets, took them at an average of 50. There was a fine spell, and then more or less the usual Ishant stuff. He does produce those fines spells at times, but after his first year in international cricket, he hasn't done it regularly. In his first year, he could hit peak speeds close to 150 KPH at times and maintained an average speed above the 140 KPH mark. It was this pace that was his great strength along with his natural attributes. Even when he has taken a few wickets in recent test matches, Ishant came nowhere close to that young 19 year old lad who was full of promise ones upon a time. He continues to be confused about his length, he hardly went pass the 138 KPH mark in terms of pace and his average pace was in the early to mid 130s.

msp83 wrote:KPF, Ishant, even when he took those 3 wickets, took them at an average of 50. There was a fine spell, and then more or less the usual Ishant stuff. He does produce those fines spells at times, but after his first year in international cricket, he hasn't done it regularly. In his first year, he could hit peak speeds close to 150 KPH at times and maintained an average speed above the 140 KPH mark. It was this pace that was his great strength along with his natural attributes. Even when he has taken a few wickets in recent test matches, Ishant came nowhere close to that young 19 year old lad who was full of promise ones upon a time. He continues to be confused about his length, he hardly went pass the 138 KPH mark in terms of pace and his average pace was in the early to mid 130s.

again you are stuck in averages......in a small patch

again you are stuck in whether he is bowling at 150 or 138 peak speed.

you are picking up the worst patches from a big picture.

---we must look at the total picture.......

--he has taken 30 wkts in last 6 tests including the patta pitches....and at an acceptable average.
--he can bowl consistently in 83 to 85 mph window....and inspite of having slowed down he is the fastest in the 11 and 2nd fastest of the 6 seamers on tour.
--he doesn't break down.
--he reverses, bounces and can go on and on like a work-horse

when you look at the entire package of Ishant Sharma as he stands now....he is very acceptable seamer who is delivering results whihc in recent block of 6 tests are comparable to the best seamers India has had

Ishant Sharma, in his last 5 tests, all played away from home, has taken 23 wickets at 36.52. This has been one of his better patches as you suggest. If he's this awful in his better patch, what would he be if his performance dips even just a little bit?
There is no need to stress to you of all people the importance of pace. Yes pace isn't everything, but it matters, and matters a great deal. Ishant could bowl fast at one point in his career, as you said his fitness record is relatively better, and he's only 25. Besides, his natural atributes would be effective only with good pace.
What has happened in recent times is that he has managed to produce that one good spell a game a bit more regularly than he did in the last 5 years before that. I really don't see a consistent, overall improvement in Ishant really, no matter what spin is put on his performances.

msp83 wrote:Ishant Sharma, in his last 5 tests, all played away from home, has taken 23 wickets at 36.52. This has been one of his better patches as you suggest. If he's this awful in his better patch, what would he be if his performance dips even just a little bit?
There is no need to stress to you of all people the importance of pace. Yes pace isn't everything, but it matters, and matters a great deal. Ishant could bowl fast at one point in his career, as you said his fitness record is relatively better, and he's only 25. Besides, his natural atributes would be effective only with good pace.
What has happened in recent times is that he has managed to produce that one good spell a game a bit more regularly than he did in the last 5 years before that. I really don't see a consistent, overall improvement in Ishant really, no matter what spin is put on his performances.

--extend it to last 6 tests and it's 29 wickets at 34.......this is a good patch and if he can hold it he deserves to paly for India forever ( I mean there is no Indian seamer or spinner averging 5 wkts / test)

--if he drops it a bit to about even 3.5 to 4 wkts / test...that is also OK..because thats what Zaheer / Srinath have averaged per test.
Remember wkts / test match is called strike rate and its more important than average.
these day scoring rates are high and totals are higher....hence you see higher number of 50+ averaging batsmen in this era.

so about 4 wkts / test at average 35 would be just fine

--whether he's gonna hold on to this acceptable strike rate or get better or worse........we need 6 more test to judge the trend

you are making a convenient assumption that his performanc will drop....and I am saying...wait watch

--speed is necessary and / but he is already bowling decent speed and log spells and many overs and giving aceptable returns..so he holds his place

-Now if shami and Bhuvi cannot deliver about 4 wkts / test at average 35 then one of them will be dropped

--and if they also strike at the acceptable and higher rate......hey then where is the problem..we will become world beaters.

The likes of Dale Steyn, the great fast bowlers of our era, are averaging in early 20s even in this age of higher totals and so on, so it is not out of the question . Zaheer and Srinath picked up their wickets for less runs on average. 5-95 is better than 6-175 in my book.
If our seam bowlers are all going to average 35 with the ball, then our attack won't be any better than that of Bangladesh. If 35 is the average per wicket, the opposition would always be scoring 350+ when India play away as the spinner would have no major role. That's a pretty decent first innings score on most of the test pitches!.

msp83 wrote:The likes of Dale Steyn, the great fast bowlers of our era, are averaging in early 20s even in this age of higher totals and so on, so it is not out of the question . Zaheer and Srinath picked up their wickets for less runs on average. 5-95 is better than 6-175 in my book.
If our seam bowlers are all going to average 35 with the ball, then our attack won't be any better than that of Bangladesh. If 35 is the average per wicket, the opposition would always be scoring 350+ when India play away as the spinner would have no major role. That's a pretty decent first innings score on most of the test pitches!.

srinath averaged 3.5 wkts / test over his carer
zaheer averged 3.4 wkts / test over his career

Ishant's 5 wkts / test in the last 6 games is astronomical in comparison

Srinath took 13 wickets in a test against Pakistan ones, and in that series he had astronomical numbers. Can't be the basis of any significant analysis beyond that particular match!.

msp83 wrote:Srinath took 13 wickets in a test against Pakistan ones, and in that series he had astronomical numbers. Can't be the basis of any significant analysis beyond that particular match!.

when a career is finished you take the career strike rate

Zaheer finished with a SR of 3.4 wkts/ test and Srinath,  3.5wkts/ test and Kapil 3.3 wkts / test

when a career is running...you take the current strike rate.

now if Ishant goes at the strike rate of around 5 for the nest 34 tests...then at the 90 test match mark...he would be at a strike rate of 3.74 wkts / test.

and that would be signifcnatly better than Zaheer or Srinath.....whose careers if you compare probably was like Ishants at same point in their careers.

even if  Ishant goes at 4 wkts / test for next 34 tests...at 90 test match point he would be at a SR of 3.4...similar to Zaheer?s but better than Kapil

so really Ishant ain't doing too bad compared to great Indian seamers of past

Australia A wins the finrst OD by 28 runs. Half-centuries from Alex Dulan and Mitchell Marsh helped them to 252. Dhawal Kulkarni and Mohit Sharma took 3 wickets each for India A.
In response, no one other than wicketkeeper Sanju Samson got going for India A. Samson made 81 and there were a few 20s, but eventually India A folded for 224 in the 47th over. Kane Richardson took 5-31 and Marsh took 3 wickets.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Srinath took 13 wickets in a test against Pakistan ones, and in that series he had astronomical numbers. Can't be the basis of any significant analysis beyond that particular match!.

when a career is finished you take the career strike rate

Zaheer finished with a SR of 3.4 wkts/ test and Srinath,  3.5wkts/ test and Kapil 3.3 wkts / test

when a career is running...you take the current strike rate.

now if Ishant goes at the strike rate of around 5 for the nest 34 tests...then at the 90 test match mark...he would be at a strike rate of 3.74 wkts / test.

and that would be signifcnatly better than Zaheer or Srinath.....whose careers if you compare probably was like Ishants at same point in their careers.

even if  Ishant goes at 4 wkts / test for next 34 tests...at 90 test match point he would be at a SR of 3.4...similar to Zaheer?s but better than Kapil

so really Ishant ain't doing too bad compared to great Indian seamers of past

you see msp, Ishant is bolwing well with some consistency

Now the whole world will say Ishant has turned it around.....
I just saw the turnaround a little bit earlier   

Pandey-ji and Tiwari-ji made 90 + scores and SA lost comprehensively when Kulkarni and Rasool took 5 and 2 wkts.

I think Tiwari and Kulkarni are ready for bigger games and we might see them in ODis....especially Kulkarni might do well.

Both teams were full star studded A sides and De Lange got a 5-for
He seems like Cummins and Pattinson and. that other 160kph contemporary of Lee in aus who used a lot of shoulder( i think his name was shaun tait).....unfit and broken more often than up and running

That's my boy Marchant de Lange! Little bit expensive but he's got that X factor. He's got the capacity to become a great fast bowler.

If he can stay fit for the next 4-6 months, for me, he walks into the Proteas ODI side for the World Cup. He's that good. And he'll be knocking on the Test door again very soon. You CAN'T teach someone to bowl at 150-160kph!

"can" or "can't" ?  

They are not a dime a dozen I know.

and the national performance squad of Aus.... NPS beats a full start studded Aus-side having a pace attack better than most international sides.
Aus-A actually lost it in batting.

for NPS the only name I can recognize is Muirhead...but it does show the depth in Aus cricket if like an Aus_B side beats their A side  

Linebreaker wrote:"can" or "can't" ?  

They are not a dime a dozen I know.

Sorry corrected it.

KP_fan wrote:and the national performance squad of Aus.... NPS beats a full start studded Aus-side having a pace attack better than most international sides.
Aus-A actually lost it in batting.

for NPS the only name I can recognize is Muirhead...but it does show the depth in Aus cricket if like an Aus_B side beats their A side  

arghmmmm.... it's the off season. Too much winter fat. It's a very odd time to be playing cricket in this country at the moment.
Players generally start to "heat up" in late October/early November.

I have a feeling the selectors are just playing around with different names.

This tour means nothing in the big scheme of things really.

Ind -A overcome NPS today. Mohit sharma's 4-for and 3 wkts for spinners.
Manan Vohra and Rayadu did well with the bat.
there has been consistent gOod show from most Indian palyers in this series