Possible Lions 2017

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

On current form, with choice of coaches and who will be captain? lets speculate...........

by bedfordwelsh Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:56 am

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:I really hope gatland not the next lions coach . It really effected Wales . Saying that Winning the last one makes him one of the favorites . Hope its Lancaster . He has won against the all blacks

So had SCW but that didn't mean diddly squat in 05

by **Biltong** Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:17 am

On current form, with choice of coaches and who will be captain? lets speculate...........

I suspect current form will have little to do with what happens 3 years from now Wink

by funnyExiledScot Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:32 pm

Gatland's chances for me will hinge on Wales' performance at the next World Cup. It is a tough group but I can't see him keeping his job if Wales don't progress from the Group of Death, and if he does lose his job then I can't see him being an attractive option for the Lions if he isn't coaching at international level. If Wales do progress out of the tough group and replicate their success at the last World Cup, then I think he'll stay on with Wales and have a good shot at the Lions in 2017. Regardless of whether you rate him or not, he has a great coaching record in terms of delivering success and as a winning coach of the last tour, he probably is still the front runner.

Still, Schmidt, Cotter and Lancaster are all talented coaches. In fact I can't think of the last time all the four nations comprising the Lions were led by such a strong group.

Schmidt and Cotter could be a great double act incidentally. Both Kiwis, one a backs man and the other a forwards man, both have worked together and both are good friends.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:53 am

It would be nice to have a coach from the countries the B&I Lions actually represent instead of a bloody NZ'er!

by funnyExiledScot Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:19 am

Well that would likely mean Lancaster, unless you went for someone like Richards or O'Shea.

Bring back Geech!

by Barney McGrew did it Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:30 am

MJ - a shoo in

by funnyExiledScot Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:26 pm

Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

by ChequeredJersey Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:01 pm

Biltong wrote:
On current form, with choice of coaches and who will be captain? lets speculate...........

I suspect current form will have little to do with what happens 3 years from now

Unless SCW is managing it Wink

by funnyExiledScot Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:18 pm

SCW would have the squad picked already (all 72 of them, divided into English on the one hand (the XV) and token celts on the other (dirt trackers)), wrapped in cotton wool and 6 months of Alistair Campbell's time booked. Winner.

by The Saint Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:21 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.

by **George Carlin** Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:27 pm

The Saint wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.

Totally. That's why Clermont were so awful and had rubbish players like Parra, Rougerie, Fofana, Bonnaire and Nalaga.

Far too much was made of them going 77 games unbeaten at home under Cotter.

by The Saint Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:35 pm

George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.
Totally. That's why Clermont were so awful and had rubbish players like Parra, Rougerie, Fofana, Bonnaire and Nalaga.

Far too much was made of them going 77 games unbeaten at home under Cotter.

What did they win in his long tenure? One league wasn't it? I'm sure a monkey could have won a HEC with that team, Cotter pretty much did f-all. And in his first game with Scotland against a decent team they lose 55-3.

by ChequeredJersey Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:36 pm

To be fair look at ASM now without Cotter...

by The Saint Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:44 pm

Top of the league, not bad. Feel sorry for them in that European group though.

by **George Carlin** Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:58 pm

The Saint wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.
Totally. That's why Clermont were so awful and had rubbish players like Parra, Rougerie, Fofana, Bonnaire and Nalaga.

Far too much was made of them going 77 games unbeaten at home under Cotter.

What did they win in his long tenure? One league wasn't it? I'm sure a monkey could have won a HEC with that team, Cotter pretty much did f-all. And in his first game with Scotland against a decent team they lose 55-3.

by The Saint Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:07 pm

George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.
Totally. That's why Clermont were so awful and had rubbish players like Parra, Rougerie, Fofana, Bonnaire and Nalaga.

Far too much was made of them going 77 games unbeaten at home under Cotter.

What did they win in his long tenure? One league wasn't it? I'm sure a monkey could have won a HEC with that team, Cotter pretty much did f-all. And in his first game with Scotland against a decent team they lose 55-3.

Ah, no answer then Smile

.

by **George Carlin** Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:34 pm

The Saint wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.
Totally. That's why Clermont were so awful and had rubbish players like Parra, Rougerie, Fofana, Bonnaire and Nalaga.

Far too much was made of them going 77 games unbeaten at home under Cotter.

What did they win in his long tenure? One league wasn't it? I'm sure a monkey could have won a HEC with that team, Cotter pretty much did f-all. And in his first game with Scotland against a decent team they lose 55-3.

Ah, no answer then .

by funnyExiledScot Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:09 am

The Saint wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Oh yes, how could I forget. He couldn't be "Head Coach" though. They'd have to call him something vague, like "Squad Supervisor", and then get Schmidt and Cotter in to do some coaching and pick the team.

Cotter is crap. Don't see why some of you think he's going to come in and turn Scotland into world beaters, let alone be on the Lions coaching squad. I'd prefer Gatland and Schmidt.

As always your thoughtful, careful and considered opinion is extremely valued on these boards. Please keep up the good work.

by The Saint Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:23 am

That's alright FES. Thanks.

by **George Carlin** Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:29 am

The Saint wrote:That's alright FES. Thanks.

by The Saint Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:29 am

George Carlin wrote:
The Saint wrote:That's alright FES. Thanks.

by **profitius** Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:18 am

I think it'll be Gatland again and once again he'll pick a team based on physicality. Thats how they'll try and beat NZ. They're not going to beat them by outplaying them because even if the talent is there, they won't have time to get players to gel. So it'll be fairly direct rugby.

A good basis for picking the team is to see who the biggest players are per position and go from there. Only exceptional smaller players will make it.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:22 am

I would be very surprised if its Gatland, especially at the moment as we aren't exactly setting the world alight and might not even get out of group come the WC.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:12 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be very surprised if its Gatland, especially at the moment as we aren't exactly setting the world alight and might not even get out of group come the WC.

100% agree. He'd need to still be the Welsh coach to make it in my view, and if Wales don't make it out of the group I can't see him holding onto the job.

I'm not convinced that Wales are the force they were a couple of years ago, and England seem to be improving and on the up under Lancaster. I think the key game for Wales will be Australia, and I would tip the Aussies to pull through that one narrowly.

Cracking group though from a neutrals perspective, with one of the big rugby nations getting knocked out at the group stage. Glad Scotland aren't in that Group!

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:07 am

So let get this straight, we must take a prominently English squad because they beat the All Blacks at Twickers yes?

But they got thumped this summer by them in New Zealand yes?

but on another thread the English are saying they will win the world cup because they have home advantage, and home advantage is the most important in the history of the world.

So by these facts Englands win over a flu ridden kiwi team at Twickenham a couple of years ago must be discounted because they had home advantage,yes?

And the humiliation the kiwis handed them this summer must be foremost in our decision on who will tour the lions because it was home advantage for NZ yes?

Also having two half decent games at the beginning of the summer tour must be discounted to, because on another thread the English are telling us all that matters is your last game,yes?

Wow im having trouble keeping up with the DailyMail English sports fans here on 606, it's almost as if they don't know what they are talking about,its like they think England are world beaters no matter how much they contradict a previous argument.

Personally i dont see more than 2 English players worthy of putting on the Lions jersey then them two are only English by "qualification".

by Cyril Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:17 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Personally i dont see more than 2 English players worthy of putting on the Lions jersey then them two are only English by "qualification".

If they're English I imagine they both play for Wales.

by OMc Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:07 am

Interesting to go back to this following the AIs.

If they don't mind having a Kiwi then Schmidt would be an excellent shout for coach.

by ChequeredJersey Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:20 am

Anyone not having Morgan, Robshaw, Lawes in their squads at least is certifiably mad, and I'm sure myself and Dr grey would be happy to section them

by bedfordwelsh Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:40 am

Morgan should of been starting for England for ages now. The Robshaw/Warburton debate will always rage on and its great to, Warburton was outstanding for us today and will be great to see them head to head come the 6 nations if both fit on form etc etc.

by Cyril Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:58 am

The Lions are spoiled for choice with locks.

AWJ
Lawes
Launchbury
Gilchrist
Gray brothers

by JDizzle Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:00 am

Jake Ball and Attwood could definitely be in the mix come 2017 too.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:04 am

Even as an England fan I wouldn't have Attwood

by Cyril Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:05 am

Yeah, Atwood could be there too. Needs a bit more time but he's in with a shout.

by bedfordwelsh Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:06 am

I know he's out injured but after having seen him in last years Lions I am huge fan of Parling.

by Cyril Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:10 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:I know he's out injured but after having seen him in last years Lions I am huge fan of Parling.

He had a good Lions tour last time but I think he's probably 4th or 5th choice for England now.

by Guest Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:12 am

I just hope Gatland doesn't get the job again. My reasons:

1. Wales haven't been very good under him in the last couple of years so he probably doesnt deserve it.
2. I think a change from one Lions tour to another is good.
3. I don't want the disruption of losing our coach for a year again (his 1 year release clause was ridiculous to be honest).
4. I couldn't handle the cr@p on here again. Another nations turn for the bias calls!

by Nematode Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:31 am

From Scotland, I'd consider:

Ford
R Gray
J Gray
Laidlaw
Seymour

by Guest Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:39 am

Nematode wrote:From Scotland, I'd consider:

Ford
R Gray
J Gray
Laidlaw
Seymour

Not a criticism at all, but what has happened to all of the Scottish players who should have gone last time? It was only last year. Have they just lost form? There was a fairly sizeable list of scots who missed out and were hard done by (many of which I agreed with). And that was when Scotland were playing relatively poorly. They've improved a lot since so I thought your list would be bigger.

by lostinwales Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:41 am

OMc wrote:Interesting to go back to this following the AIs.

If they don't mind having a Kiwi then Schmidt would be an excellent shout for coach.

If you are looking at current head coaches then you have a choice of Bomber or a Kiwi

by OMc Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:43 am

lostinwales wrote:If you are looking at current head coaches then you have a choice of Bomber or a Kiwi

No need for it to be an international head coach. Mallinder would be a decent shot, but overall you couldn't do much better than Joe Schmidt.

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:38 pm

Worth saying again post-AIs - the key thing will be player's ages and maturity come the Lions tour.

For example:

01 Healy (30)
02 Best (34)
03 Wilson (32)
04 J. Gray (23)
05 Launchbury (26)
06 Wood (30)
07 O'Brien (30)
08 Morgan (28)

09 Murray (28)
10 Sexton (32)
11 North (25)
12 Williams (27)/Marshall (26)
13 Tuilagi (26)
14 Trimble (31)
15 Halfpenny (28)

16 Corbisiero (29)
17 Cronin (30)
18 Cole (30)
19 Lawes (28)
20 Robshaw (31)
21 Care (30)
22 Farrell (26)
23 Brown (31)

by majesticimperialman Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:06 pm

how about Chris Ashton and David Strettle for the wings.

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:24 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:how about Chris Ashton and David Strettle for the wings.

There's already 12 Englishment in my starting 23 Maj!

by majesticimperialman Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:30 pm

George Carlin wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:how about Chris Ashton and David Strettle for the wings.
There's already 12 Englishment in my starting 23 Maj!

In that case George. 2 more wont hurt will it. Smile

by GavinDragon Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:47 pm

Hogg
Bowe
Tuilagi
Roberts
North
Sexton
O'Murray

Morgan
Warburton
O Mahoney
Gray
Lawes
Lee
Hartley
Healey

by Nematode Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:04 pm

Griff wrote:
Nematode wrote:From Scotland, I'd consider:

Ford
R Gray
J Gray
Laidlaw
Seymour

Not a criticism at all, but what has happened to all of the Scottish players who should have gone last time? It was only last year. Have they just lost form? There was a fairly sizeable list of scots who missed out and were hard done by (many of which I agreed with). And that was when Scotland were playing relatively poorly. They've improved a lot since so I thought your list would be bigger.

If I was to pick Scotland players that could merit being discussed, then I'd also include Rob Harley, Blair Cowan, Matt Scott, Alex Dunbar, Sean Maitland, Hogg, and Russell.

But being realistic, I don't think some of these players - as good as they are - would get in. Rob Harley maybe, but re Cowan you've got Warbuton, Tipuric, O'Brien, Ruddock. Re Dunbar, you've obviously got a lot of talent eg Burrell, Tuilagi, Roberts, Henshaw. Re Maitland, You've got North & Bowe ahead - also his try scoring rate has been underwhelming. Re Hogg, Liam Williams, Halfpenny, Kearney are all performing better. And Russell is too young - Biggar was immense, Sexton too.

So I would probably also throw in both Harley and Scott (< injured for AI but quality player).

by Nematode Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:13 pm

My XV of the AI would be (re Lions selection)

Jenkins
Ford
Ross
J Gray
AWJ
Harley
Warbuton
Heaslip

Laidlaw
Biggar
North
Roberts
Henshaw
Seymour
Kearney

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:22 pm

Wales turn up for 1 game and get 6 players in a team of the AI....not bad going.

by Cyril Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:25 pm

Nematode, I assume that's a Pro12 Lions side Wink

by Nematode Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:39 pm

Cyril wrote:Nematode, I assume that's a Pro12 Lions side

Haha, well I don't think England have played well. Their back division isn't functioning well enough and youngsters like Ford and Watson are relatively untested. Wales and Ireland both beat SA, and Scotland is much improving.

And to be honest, the Pro12 teams are performing better than Aviva teams. You've got Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Ospreys & Glasgow - who thumped table toppers Bath.

The English players and teams are just hyped up in the media. The 6N will be very interesting this year.

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