Possible Lions 2017

First topic message reminder :

On current form, with choice of coaches and who will be captain? lets speculate...........

Nematode wrote:

Cyril wrote:Nematode, I assume that's a Pro12 Lions side

Haha, well I don't think England have played well. Their back division isn't functioning well enough and youngsters like Ford and Watson are relatively untested. Wales and Ireland both beat SA, and Scotland is much improving.

And to be honest, the Pro12 teams are performing better than Aviva teams. You've got Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Ospreys & Glasgow - who thumped table toppers Bath.

The English players and teams are just hyped up in the media. The 6N will be very interesting this year.

I guess it's all relative. Scotland 'improving' is beating Tonga, squeezing past Argentina and losing by more than a score to a 2nd/3rd string NZ. Actually that is an improvement for the Scots. I don't think they would have come close in any of the games if they had had England's Autumn schedule (and if NZ had picked a proper side against them).

Still, I'd be quite happy for no English players to be selected for the next Lions tour. Especially in NZ!

I think that this goes to show how important it is to have a couple of coaches who between them know the Pro 12, Jeff and French leagues.

SCW in 2005 proved how destructive it is to squad morale if there is the collective sense that some players are chosen because they are favourites of the head coach, rather than because their form has merited it. Not even Alistair Campbell could spin that sh!te positively. Malcolm Tucker wouldn't even have advised the Gavin Henson Photograph.

Nematode wrote:My XV of the AI would be (re Lions selection)

Jenkins
Ford
Ross
J Gray
AWJ
Harley
Warbuton
Heaslip

Laidlaw
Biggar
North
Roberts
Henshaw
Seymour
Kearney

Christ even as a Welsh fan that is very optimistic.

Jenkins won't make 2017 for a start and he's not first choice for Wales anymore

AWJ was quiet this series bar Australia game but he will be there or there abouts

Warburton yes I agree and he was excellent yesterday

North has been poor all Autumn for us

Biggar had an outstanding game yesterday, keep it going and again he will be there or there abouts

Roberts had one good game against the All Blacks but again will be in with shout

Even ignoring the distinct lack of English players, there are more Scots than Irish in that team too.

I think the 05 NZ tour would look like a resounding success compared with what NZ would do to Nematode's side.

I also think that Satan would skate to work before Ross Ford appears in a test starters jersey for the Lions.

Yeek, thank God the next Lions is a distant thought. That side has put a bit of sick in my mouth.

Corbs/Healy
Hartley/Best/Hibbard
Cole
Henderson/Gray/Lawes
Launchbury/POC/AWJ
SOB/POM
Robshaw/Warburton
Armitage/Morgan/Vunipola
Murray/Care
Sexton/Ford/Madigan
North/Watson/Zebo
Davies/Roberts/Olding
Tuilagi/Henshaw/Burrell
May/Cuthbert/Earls
Kearney/Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown/Payne

Just a few ideas, not sure about left/right wing positions and no.4/5

I think our pack could definitely be stronger than the All Blacks'.

If we are looking ahead then if he carries on developing Samson Lee won't be far off a t/head spot.

Cyril wrote:
I guess it's all relative. Scotland 'improving' is beating Tonga, squeezing past Argentina and losing by more than a score to a 2nd/3rd string NZ. Actually that is an improvement for the Scots. I don't think they would have come close in any of the games if they had had England's Autumn schedule (and if NZ had picked a proper side against them).

Still, I'd be quite happy for no English players to be selected for the next Lions tour. Especially in NZ!

I guess you didn't see Scotland - leading 41-17 with less than 10 mins to go against an Argentina side that had just beaten Australia... Also the Glasgow players thumped Bath, including the 'wonderful' Ford, Watson, Eastmond etc that are all hyped up.

Also Scotland's lineout was impecable. Across the 3 games I don't think we lost a single lineout - that's why Ford and Gray are there.

The team I picked was, as I said, based on the AI's and meant to be if the Lions were playing tomorrow.

And if they were then Jenkins, North or Roberts still shouldn't be in there.

Nematode wrote:

Cyril wrote:
I guess it's all relative. Scotland 'improving' is beating Tonga, squeezing past Argentina and losing by more than a score to a 2nd/3rd string NZ. Actually that is an improvement for the Scots. I don't think they would have come close in any of the games if they had had England's Autumn schedule (and if NZ had picked a proper side against them).

Still, I'd be quite happy for no English players to be selected for the next Lions tour. Especially in NZ!

I guess you didn't see Scotland - leading 41-17 with less than 10 mins to go against an Argentina side that had just beaten Australia... Also the Glasgow players thumped Bath, including the 'wonderful' Ford, Watson, Eastmond etc that are all hyped up.

Also Scotland's lineout was impecable. Across the 3 games I don't think we lost a single lineout - that's why Ford and Gray are there.

The team I picked was, as I said, based on the AI's and meant to be if the Lions were playing tomorrow.

Yet you picked North?

Knackeredknees wrote:

Nematode wrote:

Cyril wrote:
I guess it's all relative. Scotland 'improving' is beating Tonga, squeezing past Argentina and losing by more than a score to a 2nd/3rd string NZ. Actually that is an improvement for the Scots. I don't think they would have come close in any of the games if they had had England's Autumn schedule (and if NZ had picked a proper side against them).

Still, I'd be quite happy for no English players to be selected for the next Lions tour. Especially in NZ!

I guess you didn't see Scotland - leading 41-17 with less than 10 mins to go against an Argentina side that had just beaten Australia... Also the Glasgow players thumped Bath, including the 'wonderful' Ford, Watson, Eastmond etc that are all hyped up.

Also Scotland's lineout was impecable. Across the 3 games I don't think we lost a single lineout - that's why Ford and Gray are there.

The team I picked was, as I said, based on the AI's and meant to be if the Lions were playing tomorrow.

Yet you picked North?

And Jenkins

As with the old lions threads, if you haven't managed to put up your own team, it's a bit pissy to sit back and slate others' teams.

Nematode wrote:My XV of the AI would be (re Lions selection)

Jenkins
Ford
Ross
J Gray
AWJ
Harley
Warbuton
Heaslip

Laidlaw
Biggar
North
Roberts
Henshaw
Seymour
Kearney

That would be utterly utterly hilarious to watch

Nematode wrote:

Cyril wrote:
I guess it's all relative. Scotland 'improving' is beating Tonga, squeezing past Argentina and losing by more than a score to a 2nd/3rd string NZ. Actually that is an improvement for the Scots. I don't think they would have come close in any of the games if they had had England's Autumn schedule (and if NZ had picked a proper side against them).

Still, I'd be quite happy for no English players to be selected for the next Lions tour. Especially in NZ!

I guess you didn't see Scotland - leading 41-17 with less than 10 mins to go against an Argentina side that had just beaten Australia... Also the Glasgow players thumped Bath, including the 'wonderful' Ford, Watson, Eastmond etc that are all hyped up.

Also Scotland's lineout was impecable. Across the 3 games I don't think we lost a single lineout - that's why Ford and Gray are there.

The team I picked was, as I said, based on the AI's and meant to be if the Lions were playing tomorrow.

This is hilarious I'd love to see the side you picked play NZ.

IanBru wrote:As with the old lions threads, if you haven't managed to put up your own team, it's a bit pissy to sit back and slate others' teams.

Generally I'd agree with you. Seeing Nematode's side though I think he deserves every bit of slating

IanBru wrote:As with the old lions threads, if you haven't managed to put up your own team, it's a bit pissy to sit back and slate others' teams.

IanBru,

Cant put team up as haven't watched all the games so unfair to pick but I have seen every Welsh game and both Jenkins and North (especially) have been poor.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If we are looking ahead then if he carries on developing Samson Lee won't be far off a t/head spot.

He has been imense, when you remember he only had his 22nd birthday a weeks ago!

I bit early to pick a Lions team for a series which is nearly 2 years away. This autumn, a number of players have improved their chances. Samson's team mate Jake Ball has been fantastic, again a young man of just 23! The Gray brothers for Scotland, Morgan and Lawes for England and the whole Irish team.

Probably the weakest position is outside half, where despite good performances from Biggar and Ford, there seems to be little sign of a challenge for Sexton.

Agree that in order to be a true todger comparison exercise, posters need to put up their own 23 and explain why they deserve to be there. Unless you cannot be arsed, of course - whereupon you lose about 98% of your moral right to throw stones at each other's cars. Come on - be brave.

Start: Brown, Watson, Barritt, Twelvetrees, May; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan.
Bench: wouldn't need one

'Nuff said.

Would like to see who you rugby experts would pick. If you're going to call someone's team pish, put your own team up.

1. Healy - Corbisiero would come close if he's past his injury problems, but Healy is great in the loose
2. Hartley - Part of a dominant scrum this Autumn and the best lineout in the world this year.
3. ?
4. AWJ - Winning Lions captaincy experience.
5. Lawes - World class in almost every area, and his defence in particular will be vital against NZ
6. O'Brien - Was impressive on the last tour
7. Warburton - Former captain so, provided his form holds up, will be there
8. Morgan - Always excellent for England, especially now his fitness has improved

9. Murray - Not watched Ireland too closely to be honest, but he's always been good and did well in Australia
10. Sexton/Ford- Sexton is the best in the NH. By then Ford could be.
11. North - Goes without saying.
12. 
13. Tuilagi - Needs to stay fit but has form against NZ.
14. 
15. Kearney - world class over a longer period than Brown. Have to assume he still will be by then. If Ford starts, then Halfpenny's kicking may be useful.


Couple of gaps and no Scots yet.

Easy Thomh,

3. Doctor Jazzy Geoff Cross
12. Alex Dunbar, the Terror of Lockerbie
14. Tommy 'Intercept King' Seymour

[wipes hands on apron]

Job done.

thomh wrote:1. Healy - Corbisiero would come close if he's past his injury problems, but Healy is great in the loose
2. Hartley - Part of a dominant scrum this Autumn and the best lineout in the world this year.
3. ?
4. AWJ - Winning Lions captaincy experience.
5. Lawes - World class in almost every area, and his defence in particular will be vital against NZ
6. O'Brien - Was impressive on the last tour
7. Warburton - Former captain so, provided his form holds up, will be there
8. Morgan - Always excellent for England, especially now his fitness has improved

9. Murray - Not watched Ireland too closely to be honest, but he's always been good and did well in Australia
10. Sexton/Ford- Sexton is the best in the NH. By then Ford could be.
11. North - Goes without saying.
12. 
13. Tuilagi - Needs to stay fit but has form against NZ.
14. SEYMOUR
15. Kearney - world class over a longer period than Brown. Have to assume he still will be by then. If Ford starts, then Halfpenny's kicking may be useful.


Couple of gaps and no Scots yet.

You could put Seymour in there - he's got a 0.46 try/game ratio and scored in all of Scotland's tests.

I forgot Bowe actually.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Start: Brown, Watson, Barritt, Twelvetrees, May; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan.
Bench: wouldn't need one

'Nuff said.

Sir Clive?

Jeez - we are truly stacked at full back.

In no order - Halfpenny, Kearney, Brown, Hogg, Goode and Williams could feasibly all start. And that's before we even start to consider people like Jared Payne and Delon Armitage.

Sir Clive as goody-two-shoes angel (motivator/nuisance) on Lancaster's shoulder.

Gatland as Lions PR officer.

Cotter as forwards coach.

Irish coach not good enough to tour (as usual).

Schmidt as All Blacks coach.

Right now based on form:


15: L Williams just ahead of Kearney
14: Seymour. In excellent form and looks dangerous for Scotland
13: really hard call
12: Dunbar, an area of weakness but he looks good
11: May pushed by Bowe
10: Sexton
9: Murray. No words
8:Morgan
7: Robshaw
6: SOB
5: Lawes
4: J Gray
3: Wilson
2: Hartley
1: Healy. Except he'd probably kill Hartley

Bench: Marler, Best, Ross, AWJ/Launchbury, Warburton, Laidlaw, Ford, Kearney

SOB based on form CJ? Interesting call....

Ooh, er, kind of let that slip but I wanted that back row very much. :/

POM instead loses carrying, becomes hard

Haha...I'd have SOB also, fantastic player

Robshaw non negotiable

Of course come the actual time if his form plummeted or he was injured THEN I wouldn't pick him. I'm not Gatland

Who'd have thought

Actually, I've forgotten POC...

1. Healy - for me he is the best prop in the world. Has always been immense in the loose and the new scrum laws have really suited him, destroyed the English, French and Toulon scrums last season
2. Hartley - most consistent thrower and has a good workrate, I like Rory Best but he'll be 34 in 2017
3. Samson Lee, Dan Cole and Dave Wilson are in contention. Marty Moore should be an Ireland starter by then.
4. Launchbury, J Gray, Henderson, Ball - numerous contenders
5. Lawes, AWJ, R Gray - but you never know, Paulie looks like he could play on for another 10 years
6. POM, Wood, Harley
7. SOB, Warburton, Robshaw, S Armitage?
8. Vunipola, Faletau, Morgan, Heaslip - quite a few candidates that are hard to separate at the moment
9. Murray, Care, Webb - Murray is head and shoulders above the rest right now. That could change, however. Kieran Marmion might be in with shout by then.
10. Sexton, Biggar, Ford - Sexton would be the first name on the teamsheet if there was a test tomorrow but he will be 32 in 2017. Finn Russell and Ian Madigan are dark horses.
11. North, May, Zebo
12. Burgess, Eastmond, Dunbar? Tough call. Ireland have a number of promising 12s.
13. Tuilagi, Henshaw, J Davies
14. Trimble, Watson, Earls. Bowe is losing his pace but Keith Earls looks class every time I watch him now, he just needs to stop getting injured just before every international window
15. Halfpenny, Hogg, Brown, Williams? I can't see Kearney being the same player in 2017. 

From that side O'Mahony would probably be my captain. Despite not being talked about that much outside Ireland he is also the bookies' favourite.

Burgess has played, what, 20 mins of Union?

Oh you mean by 2017?

Yep a lot of those are fairly speculative calls!

Secret bolters for the test 23:
- Sean Cronin (Ireland)
- Samson Lee (Wales)
- Josh Strauss (Scotland)
- Sam Burgess (England)

Seriously - I wonder what odds you would get on at least one of thos guys making it.

Jack McGrath
Richard Hibbard
Samson Lee
Courtney Lawes
AWJ
Peter O'Mahony
Sam Warburton
Ben Morgan
Conner Murray
Jonny Sexton
Jonny May
Alex Dunbar
Robbie Henshaw
Tommy Bowe
Rob Kearney

Think its easier to say who probably won't then will. With that in mind, I don't think a 33 year old Tommy Bowe will be there. Same for AWJ when he has competition from Launchbury, Lawes, the Gray brothers and Iain Henderson.

If it was being played tomorrow, I think majority English pack, with Murray, Sexton and Kearney would be the ones hard to shift. And that's not the Irish shift by the way.

As I have said I can't put my team up having not seen all the games this Autumn series BUT what I have seen is all the Welsh games and if people are picking solely on the Autumn games then North doesn't deserve a slot he has been poor.