Wales v Australia

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

George Carlin wrote:If anyone wants an Aussie view on Gatland, these are the thoughts of Stephen Samuelson in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Popular wisdom says Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If he said it, Wales coach Warren Gatland was not listening.

Wales and Australia will join England in a genuine group of death in next September's World Cup and the importance of these November Tests is all in the eye of the coaches.

Gatland, with seven years under his belt, is currently the longest serving coach of a top-tier nation, whereas his Wallabies counterpart Michael Cheika has had just three weeks in the job. If the post-match comments of the pair are any guide there is a similar gulf in their thinking.

Gatland is convinced Wales can improve significantly ahead of next year's tournament, while the Wallabies cannot. Eclipsing Australia is merely a matter of progression. Wales are using the November Tests as a glorified training camp, flogging the players in practice with a sole focus on getting out of the group of death next September. Results in between can be buggered.

But there is a colder truth Gatland needs to embrace. Wales in Cardiff were physical with big forwards and giant backs hammering the breakdown and gainline. They defended strongly and played well, yet lost by a small margin. It's a pattern that has repeated itself against the Wallabies in their past 10 clashes. Since 2012, Kurtley Beale, Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris and now Bernard Foley have snatched victory from the Welsh in the final minutes. Other than the potential for a welcome serving of good luck, why will Twickenham be different next year?

Wales' long build up has put the spotlight on the one aspect they must improve: mental strength. While a positive World Cup outcome remains their overwhelming target, Wales risk entering the tournament without the results to boost their belief they can achieve it.

Cheika in contrast is talking a much shorter game, rightfully believing there was very little in the match that could point to future fortunes. His tenure at the Waratahs has shown an unwavering commitment that the right philosophy, vigorously pursued, will ultimately deliver the winning result. Progress is not assumed, it's earned. The Waratahs showed a capacity to learn from mistakes and the Wallabies will now have to do the same.

The scrum for most of the match was a perfect model of parity, but Gethin Jenkins's arrival led to a goal-line siege that lasted four minutes and cost the Wallabies seven points. Under Cheika, the scrum problem is to be embraced, enjoyed, but not excused. Referees are hoodwinked into giving scrum penalties against the Wallabies, but the absolute truth is far more damning. Dominant scrums are not easily manipulated. Books can only be cooked for so long before the truth is discovered.

In defence, the Wallabies missed too many tackles and had more misreads than an intelligence dossier. The effort was there, though. The defensive line speed was more sprinter than pedestrian, but its shape resembled a wave rolling up the shore. Too many jagged lines were left for Wales to exploit.

With ball in hand, Cheika's philosophy has some subtle differences from his predecessor that needs to be perfected. He has plenty of willing runners but needs more pop passes and line bending charges from his forwards to open the game up for Foley's orchestrated flatline attack.

There are World Cup lessons to be learned from Cardiff. The coach who accurately defines where his team is at while at the same time imagining where they can truly be, will have the advantage. Cheika's track record and his freshness to the role puts him in the box seat.

Yes I don't think many people were fooled by Gats bullish comments after the game. If I had to plump which team can improve significantly more than the other of course it would be Australia who were missing a raft of players compared to one first choice centre.

Wait a second there. During that game we also lost a first choice flyhalf, fullback and scrum half.

Who were Australia missing???? They looked pretty much first choice to me. Any team that can have the luxury of players like Genia, Horwill and Skelton on the bench are on pretty good form.

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He's started to adapt a little now James in for Jenkins Webb for Phillips etc but is it to late now?  I have said for sometime that his backrow staff (Howley in particular) are not good enough.

Mate,

I remember you said that prior to Howley coaching Wales to a consecutive grand slam.

Another fail maes, as Howley didn't coach Wales to a consecutive grand slam. He's saying it because for almost 8 years we've hardly seen a backs move apart from Roberts/North/Cuthbert on the inside.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

George Carlin wrote:If anyone wants an Aussie view on Gatland, these are the thoughts of Stephen Samuelson in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Popular wisdom says Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If he said it, Wales coach Warren Gatland was not listening.

Wales and Australia will join England in a genuine group of death in next September's World Cup and the importance of these November Tests is all in the eye of the coaches.

Gatland, with seven years under his belt, is currently the longest serving coach of a top-tier nation, whereas his Wallabies counterpart Michael Cheika has had just three weeks in the job. If the post-match comments of the pair are any guide there is a similar gulf in their thinking.

Gatland is convinced Wales can improve significantly ahead of next year's tournament, while the Wallabies cannot. Eclipsing Australia is merely a matter of progression. Wales are using the November Tests as a glorified training camp, flogging the players in practice with a sole focus on getting out of the group of death next September. Results in between can be buggered.

But there is a colder truth Gatland needs to embrace. Wales in Cardiff were physical with big forwards and giant backs hammering the breakdown and gainline. They defended strongly and played well, yet lost by a small margin. It's a pattern that has repeated itself against the Wallabies in their past 10 clashes. Since 2012, Kurtley Beale, Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris and now Bernard Foley have snatched victory from the Welsh in the final minutes. Other than the potential for a welcome serving of good luck, why will Twickenham be different next year?

Wales' long build up has put the spotlight on the one aspect they must improve: mental strength. While a positive World Cup outcome remains their overwhelming target, Wales risk entering the tournament without the results to boost their belief they can achieve it.

Cheika in contrast is talking a much shorter game, rightfully believing there was very little in the match that could point to future fortunes. His tenure at the Waratahs has shown an unwavering commitment that the right philosophy, vigorously pursued, will ultimately deliver the winning result. Progress is not assumed, it's earned. The Waratahs showed a capacity to learn from mistakes and the Wallabies will now have to do the same.

The scrum for most of the match was a perfect model of parity, but Gethin Jenkins's arrival led to a goal-line siege that lasted four minutes and cost the Wallabies seven points. Under Cheika, the scrum problem is to be embraced, enjoyed, but not excused. Referees are hoodwinked into giving scrum penalties against the Wallabies, but the absolute truth is far more damning. Dominant scrums are not easily manipulated. Books can only be cooked for so long before the truth is discovered.

In defence, the Wallabies missed too many tackles and had more misreads than an intelligence dossier. The effort was there, though. The defensive line speed was more sprinter than pedestrian, but its shape resembled a wave rolling up the shore. Too many jagged lines were left for Wales to exploit.

With ball in hand, Cheika's philosophy has some subtle differences from his predecessor that needs to be perfected. He has plenty of willing runners but needs more pop passes and line bending charges from his forwards to open the game up for Foley's orchestrated flatline attack.

There are World Cup lessons to be learned from Cardiff. The coach who accurately defines where his team is at while at the same time imagining where they can truly be, will have the advantage. Cheika's track record and his freshness to the role puts him in the box seat.

Yes I don't think many people were fooled by Gats bullish comments after the game. If I had to plump which team can improve significantly more than the other of course it would be Australia who were missing a raft of players compared to one first choice centre.

Wait a second there. During that game we also lost a first choice flyhalf, fullback and scrum half.

Who were Australia missing???? They looked pretty much first choice to me. Any team that can have the luxury of players like Genia, Horwill and Skelton on the bench are on pretty good form.

From DT

"Michael Cheika gave a wry grin when he was told that Warren Gatland had just promised Australia they would “face a different beast” in next year’s World Cup group stages.
And the tough Sydneysider did well to suppress a giggle when it was added that the Dragons coach had cast doubt on the possibility of any Wallabies improvement.
Cheika had presided over his first Test match in charge, having stepped into the void left three weeks before by the chaotically controversial departure of Ewen McKenzie. Working with players who are on their third national coach in 15 months, Cheika had led Australia out of the turmoil to their 10th successive win over Wales.
While the Wallabies were without at least six front-liners and, were suffering so bad at hooker, they were down to their third-, fourth- and ninth-choice hookers, Wales were arguably only one centre light of their best team."

samuraidragon wrote:

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He's started to adapt a little now James in for Jenkins Webb for Phillips etc but is it to late now?  I have said for sometime that his backrow staff (Howley in particular) are not good enough.

Mate,

I remember you said that prior to Howley coaching Wales to a consecutive grand slam.

Another fail maes, as Howley didn't coach Wales to a consecutive grand slam. He's saying it because for almost 8 years we've hardly seen a backs move apart from Roberts/North/Cuthbert on the inside.

Howley to blame for us being in the group of death in the first place, due to awful performance in AIs causing us to drop down the rankings. Selection and game plan were bad and too many losses to weaker teams.