Wales v Australia

First topic message reminder :

Only 55,000 tickets sold so far.

Let's hope these ridiculous November friendlies that are saturating the game are finally dying.

Thanks for the third instalment of the half hour advantage, said Aus to Joubert.

So so so fed up of this

At least Keith Wood will be happy. He just continues to grow resentment for himself after the Lions tour.

I think we're just not good enough, or have the depth to compete. The replacements did well but cant help but think not having a kicker on the field changed our strategy going into that last 10 minutes.

10 in a row. Wow

I thought Joubert was pretty even handed actually even though he missed a few infringements from both sides. The better side won on the day... again... just.

Commiserations Wales fans. I know it must feel so frustrating. Maybe you're saving the win up for the big match next year?

Rusty defensive errors in the first half and tired discipline in the second half cost us.

We did create more than usual and a fair few players had very good games - Warburton, Biggar, Roberts, AWJ

Webb showed he has potential, was mixed with the intercepts, but he did pick up the pace and scored a good try.

Just not quite there again. Despite scoring more tries than Aus.

Just hope that Halfpenny, Biggar and Webb will be fit for NZ at least.

The Loaded Dog wrote:10 in a row. Wow

I thought Joubert was pretty even handed actually even though he missed a few infringements from both sides. The better side won on the day... again... just.

Commiserations Wales fans. I know it must feel so frustrating. Maybe you're saving the win up for the big match next year?

Have to disagree with that, Wales were the dominant side by far, aussies looked completely confused in attack at times, and while foley is a great general he doesn't pose anywhere near the threat that cooper does.

Its just deja vu all over again, Aussies far smarter at the breakdown and that pisses me off so much.
Refs really need to pay more attention to the not rolling away rule and maul collapsing as teams are cleverly manipulating those laws, keep players stuck in the ruck when they have no chance to move. Also I want the clarification on the advantage rule as it seemed to go on for ages for aus today (i know they weren't making ground, but was wasting time)

anyway congrats to aus, just deja vu yet again, gutted

That was a cracking game but my god there was a penalty advantage to Oz there and I counted around 9 phases of play and the ref was still playing advantage...

As an Irishman, I am really gutted for Wales. I thought that they were again the better team today only to lose. Not blaming the ref but he really did like to keep the Aussie penalty advantage going for an extremely long time...

The better side won imo.  The ref had a good game, seemed to play long advantage, but it seemed to be there until the team gained 10m or so.  And it seemed to be done evenly.

We lost because we made stupid mistakes, one interception try, when we should have scored, two players tackling the same man but taking each other out etc.  Australia didn't make stupid mistakes like that, and that is why they won.

Oh as a side note, the crowd with their non-stop pantomime booing etc, just make us look like a nation of tools

SS is dead right. We were NOT the better team on the day. We made indivual errors costing 14 points. The Ozzies did not make any errors. Period. They do not make mistakes. Their overall skill levels are much higher than ours. I though the score flattered us a bit tbh.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The better side won imo.  The ref had a good game, seemed to play long advantage, but it seemed to be there until the team gained 10m or so.  And it seemed to be done evenly.

We lost because we made stupid mistakes, one interception try, when we should have scored, two players tackling the same man but taking each other out etc.  Australia didn't make stupid mistakes like that, and that is why they won.

Oh as a side note, the crowd with their non-stop pantomime booing etc, just make us look like a nation of tools

There was a lot of booing in the England vs New Zealand game as well. I am not just talking about when the opposing teams kicker lines up a penalty.

welshy824 (new) wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:10 in a row. Wow

I thought Joubert was pretty even handed actually even though he missed a few infringements from both sides. The better side won on the day... again... just.

Commiserations Wales fans. I know it must feel so frustrating. Maybe you're saving the win up for the big match next year?

Have to disagree with that, Wales were the dominant side by far, aussies looked completely confused in attack at times, and while foley is a great general he doesn't pose anywhere near the threat that cooper does.

Its just deja vu all over again, Aussies far smarter at the breakdown and that pisses me off so much.
Refs really need to pay more attention to the not rolling away rule and maul collapsing as teams are cleverly manipulating those laws, keep players stuck in the ruck when they have no chance to move. Also I want the clarification on the advantage rule as it seemed to go on for ages for aus today (i know they weren't making ground, but was wasting time)

anyway congrats to aus, just deja vu yet again, gutted

Fair enough, 824, your take of it... but I didn't think Wales were dominant by far.

Both teams were pretty solid in defence (except for the tries) and not many holes for either side. It was a decent tussle but still those annoying grey areas which don't make for great viewing and must add to the pain.

The Wallabies just made slightly better use of the ball and were able to get into good field positions at those crucial times. I still think Wales is a very dangerous side and their next win over us is inevitable. I just hope we can make it 11 in the pool match next year.

Tattered, not sure the score flattered us, but if we are going to win these games I think we all need to look at the whole game, and not the final five or so minutes.  Even the pundits seemed to ignore two good try scoring opportunities being thrown away (into Australian hands), when summing up the game.

Well not dominant by far dog, but i felt we were in control until that final 10 minutes, then was deja vu again. i have to say the players looked tired in the third quarter before picking up again. Its just so frustrating as aus didn't seem dangerous at all (compared to last year certainly) and only got tries through our errors. Same old same old

Disappointed but use to this . No excuses 10 nil means we just not good enough . Australia will be a lot better side next years world cup so i predict loser of the England and Wales game will be out

The holding on was extremely lenient in Aus' favour as was the advantage. We were better at the breakdown for a change I thought, you need to be twice as good in that area with Joubert in charge. I've always stood by my opinion on him and he proved to me that I was right again. Also thought that weren't "swimming in the side" of the maul as he put it, when Aus changed the point of their drive I thought our guys dethatched. All of this happened in the latter stages of the match and that was crucial.

Yep, think we were rusty in the first half and tired in the second.

Got to have hope, but with NZ and then SA without come key players coming up, it's a big ask now.

On a whole, I really believe that Wales were the better team. A couple of silly errors capitalised on buy the Aussies does not make them the better team on the day.

Wales will be fuming at that loss. I thought it was on but the Aussies composure in the last 10 was excellent to say the least.

Quick question (from someone who understandably was watching the other game) about Wales defense in the centres. The stats show that North, admittedly missing none, made just 4 tackles compared to Roberts 17. Were Australia targetting the 12 channel or was it something else to explain such a disparity.


also Halfpenny injured?

Biggar - tactical change or injury?

LondonTiger wrote:Quick question (from someone who understandably was watching the other game) about Wales defense in the centres. The stats show that North, admittedly missing none, made just 4 tackles compared to Roberts 17. Were Australia targetting the 12 channel or was it something else to explain such a disparity.


also Halfpenny injured?

Biggar - tactical change or injury?

Biggar and Halfpenny went of injured.

North only played 13 for about 20 - he moved to the wing when Halfpenny got injured.

Roberts was leading the defence again and played very well.

wales606 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Quick question (from someone who understandably was watching the other game) about Wales defense in the centres. The stats show that North, admittedly missing none, made just 4 tackles compared to Roberts 17. Were Australia targetting the 12 channel or was it something else to explain such a disparity.


also Halfpenny injured?

Biggar - tactical change or injury?

Biggar and Halfpenny went of injured.

North only played 13 for about 20 - he moved to the wing when Halfpenny got injured.

Roberts was leading the defence again and played very well.

I only saw about 5 minutes of the game, to busy watchiong England v New Zealand.

But with regards to Half Penny and Biggar going off Injured. Was just wandering if Wales have has many injured players than England do?

Webb looked like he was carrying a knock before he went off too, Liam Williams didn't look great towards the end there either.

Heartbroken for Wales fans. WTF does Gatland have to say about this? That everything's working perfectly and we all just don't understand?

To be fair to gatland there wasn't really much wrong with the tactics. It was the players who made the mistakes not him

George, Gats pre match interview he was saying about how we are looking at a few different things, trying out different stuff et, which could more or less be translated to "when we lose its ok, its not the world cup.  And that will be the for every other game before the world cup too".  Its a shame really, because its a poor excuse, but it will be used for the next 11 months.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:George, Gats pre match interview he was saying about how we are looking at a few different things, trying out different stuff et, which could more or less be translated to "when we lose its ok, its not the world cup.  And that will be the for every other game before the world cup too".  Its a shame really, because its a poor excuse, but it will be used for the next 11 months.

To be fair, it was a close game, I think our injuries disrupted the team a lot, Allen & Roberts in the centre is pretty much an unfamiliar combination. Halfpenny going off early along with Biggar meant we didnt have a kicker on the field for at least 30 minutes. No doubt we would have taken the points rather than going for touch when we had opportunities to in that time.

The one big difference today was understanding, Australia played like a team who knew what each other were doing. We did not.

I thought Warburton was immense today.
Wales were in it right to the end, and I was sure George was going to score right at the death.
Unlucky Wales - tiny margins making the difference.

The Loaded Dog wrote:10 in a row. Wow

I thought Joubert was pretty even handed actually even though he missed a few infringements from both sides. The better side won on the day... again... just.

Commiserations Wales fans. I know it must feel so frustrating. Maybe you're saving the win up for the big match next year?

This is the hope! You have to give credit to Australia though; the clarity of thought and clinical execution to see out the game in the last 10 minutes was very impressive.

The margins were pretty clear, Joubert was the margin.

The Bachelor wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:10 in a row. Wow

I thought Joubert was pretty even handed actually even though he missed a few infringements from both sides. The better side won on the day... again... just.

Commiserations Wales fans. I know it must feel so frustrating. Maybe you're saving the win up for the big match next year?

This is the hope! You have to give credit to Australia though; the clarity of thought and clinical execution to see out the game in the last 10 minutes was very impressive.

Indeed. Shame Wales are unable to do this for whatever reason.
More than 12000 less in attendance than last year btw;
67,436 - Nov 2013
55,004 - Nov 2014
I guess even the pink hatters are getting cheesed off too.

Great build up by Australia to the Foley drop goal. Reminded me of the game against France in the WC when Wales didn't even attempt a drop goal. Also the decision not to kick to touch when we were awarded a penalty in the 70 something minute. Beginning to wonder whether we have adequate leadership on the pitch.

Did the game end like most Wales v Australia, Wales in the lead up to the last 4/5 minutes then Australia come and score a last minute try?

Or was the game already lost and Wales playing catch up. A bit like England today.

If they ( Wales ) was in the lead and Australia stole it at the end. Then it must devastating for Wales and the Welsh fans.

majesticimperialman wrote:Did the game end like most Wales v Australia, Wales in the lead up to the last 4/5 minutes then Australia come and score a last minute try?

Or was the game already lost and Wales playing catch up. A bit like England today.

If they ( Wales ) was in the lead and Australia stole it at the end. Then it must devastating for Wales and the Welsh fans.

Madge, we actually lost this game in the first half, because of a missed tackle, an intercepted pass and finally 2 players going for the same player and hitting each other, rather than the player who was carrying the ball, each of which resulted in a 7 pointer, we scored 4 tries to their 3 and we had to work hard for all of them, in actual fact each of the players who made the mistakes were all involved in our tries and IMO all had good games, and yes we are gutted because we were leading with 10 minutes to go and they snatched it at the end.

majesticimperialman wrote:Did the game end like most Wales v Australia, Wales in the lead up to the last 4/5 minutes then Australia come and score a last minute try?

Or was the game already lost and Wales playing catch up. A bit like England today.

If they ( Wales ) was in the lead and Australia stole it at the end. Then it must devastating for Wales and the Welsh fans.

I think we were in the lead with 10 or so minutes to go, Australia deserved it in the end.

I'm starting to believe that the lack of success in Europe at club level is what's separating Wales from the big boys, they just don't know how to close games out under pressure. Successful sides don't throw away matches with 5-10 minutes to go.

The Loaded Dog wrote:10 in a row. Wow

I thought Joubert was pretty even handed actually even though he missed a few infringements from both sides. The better side won on the day... again... just.

Commiserations Wales fans. I know it must feel so frustrating. Maybe you're saving the win up for the big match next year?

Sorry butt, Joubert was not even handed in pinging "not rolling away" offences or playing advantage. Though I do believe the better side won and the referee had no real impact on the result.

The big thing for me is, when we were trying to run at the end (from our half), I didn't believe we could score the try needed. If it had have been Australia doing it against us, I probably would've expected them to score.

What about Wyn Jones' dodgy try? He looked significantly short of the line to me. It was a soft 7 points for that penalty try too.
So I'd have to disagree about Joubert favouring the Wallabies as much as some people seem to think.

Learn and move on

maestegmafia wrote:Learn and move on

That's what they say usually.
We are guilty of not doing that against certain teams as well.

Well as ever I stay off these boards straight after a game due emotions running high and various idiots/WUMs running amok.  So here's my take on yesterdays game:

If I was watching it from a neutral view point then it was a great game even if defences did seem optional in the first half, I expected a high (ish) scoring game but 21 all at half time was quite higher than I had anticipated.

However as I wasn't watching it as a neutral I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of these near losses, galliant defeats etc etc I would quite happily take a boring dull 3-0 win over the the SH at the moment, its ok people saying learn and move on but we clearly aren't learning and moving on its the same old story everytime and even when we were leading going into last 10-15 minutes in my heart or hearts I knew we would feck it up.

On a performance point I thought all the front rowers played excellent especially young Lee who has struggled a bit this season.  AWJ and Ball both put in a very good shift in the boiler house and whilst most crtiicised Lydiates selection he done what was asked of him and tackled himself into the ground.  Am a big Faletau fan and he had another good game not spectacular but again nothing less than what you would expect of him but would like to see Baker given a run now as feel he's the better ball carrier.

Webb proved to be the hero and the villain, his try proved why he was rightly picked to start and his quick service is what we need but he proved his in-experience on 2 accounts yesterday with the long missed passes, one lead to a try the other almost did, on both occasions he had North and Cuthbert respectively screaming up on his shoulder for the pop pass.

I thought we looked better when Williams moved to XV and North back to the wing which asks the question what do we do about Halfpenny, because in the 2nd half some of those penalties we had were well within his range and he most probably just kept the score board ticking over.  So do we move him to the wing at the expense of Cuthbert but he himself again proved that while his inclusion was criticised he knows how to finish and take his chances very well.

So onto Fiji and for me this is now the only game I feel we will win this AI but there are likely to be a fair few changes so lets hope not to many to really damage our chances as a return of 1 from 4 is just not acceptable but 0 from 4 would be disastorous.

Fair comments Bedford, I can understand the frustration.
I do think you should stick with Webb & I'm sure he will 'learn' from his errors.
I felt that Australia generally had more ball carriers & of better quality & consequently were getting over the gain line further & more often.
I agree with Gatland that the set piece looks a lot better & so there is a solid base with which to improve.

That is the best overall attacking performance we have put together since the England game in 2013

we made the right decisions in attack (intercept passes aside), kicked to regain possession on the whole

3 mistakes and some excellent Australian composure lost us the game

Trev,

Yeah I don't think we should drop Webb, we need to keep faith with him and the likes of Gareth Davies and Rhodri Williams as they can give us the quick ball we need and hopefully as you said he will learn from his individual errors.

You mention the Australians getting over the gainline does bring me back to as why Webb did decide to throw those long passes as North and Cuthbert were screaming up on his shoulder for th short pass.

Our pack was definately the stronger and we have options there now unlike a few seasons back, I would guess Nicky Smith will be involved against Fiji as will Dan Baker so it will be good to see how they go.

GD,

I still think our kicking game or rather the chasing of those kicks were very poor. What I can't understand is why Halfpennys first instinct is to kick yet Williams' is to run.

If its team orders as such then which one is going against the orders as they are both playing a different game style.

I disagree BW,

In the past we used to just give the ball back to teams and try and defend in a line,

other than a 5 minute spell in the first half every kick had a welsh player underneath it and more often than not won the ball back

And I think halfpenny kicks rather than runs because unless he sees a clear gap he thinks he will get turned over....williams is stronger in contact and either breaks the first tackle or stays on his feet long enough for support to get to him meaning he has more confidence to do it

I would go with the same squad for the other two big games injuries permitting..

People say Biggar was mixed, and yes he did miss a tackle and drop a Kick off short (although it pleased me that we were kciking short to regain the ball) but his decision making has improved. The cuthbert try from the half way line - dan biggar a couple of years ago would have kicked that and wasted the overlap

We were not unlucky, we were not good enough.  10 in a row is not bad luck and Australia in recent years has not been a great side.

The basic skill level and game management is not up to the task and once again we look so predictable in attack.  When our week in week out rugby is average it does not provide the environment for our best talent to reach the levels needed.  At this level against the better teams you don't win if your basic kicking, kick return and chase is poor.  At least the set piece was strong - but we seriously lack a ball carrier.  Faletau isn't frightening anyone.

I don't think the answer lies with selection - these are the best we have and I would stick with this team as I expect we will inprove over the series.

Wales always struggle with Southern Hemisphere Refs, but I thought Joubert had a pretty good first half but his 50:50 decisions seemed to increasingly go in Australia's favour as the game went on.

The Ospreys halfbacks both probably had their best games for Wales, Webb took his try well and tried to speed up the game, Biggar played a more attacking role and closer to the gain line than in the past. Webb's two interceptions casts doubts on his decision making, also is Biggar the man to play on the gain line, he has been doing it this season for Ospreys but there is noticeably less time at test level. Australia's rush defence too easily cut off the ball from Liam Williams and North in attack, both on fire at present.

In the forwards I thought; Lee, Alan Wyn, Ball and Warburton were immense. Someone needs to tell Hibbard that he needs to scrumage as well as run around the field, it was noticeable that the scrum really improved when Baldwin came on!

Finally, am I alone in being unimpressed with Warburton's leadership? He is not particularly vocal, does not dictate tactics, and seems to not have the full respect of the team. Keep him at 7 but give the armband to Alan Wyn?

Seagultaf wrote:
Finally, am I alone in being unimpressed with Warburton's leadership?

Probably not. We have lost a lot of tight games we could have won with poor decisions at critical times. That for me is part of leadership.

[quote="GavinDragon"]I disagree BW,


And I think halfpenny kicks rather than runs because unless he sees a clear gap he thinks he will get turned over....williams is stronger in contact and either breaks the first tackle or stays on his feet long enough for support to get to him meaning he has more confidence to do it

I would go with the same squad for the other two big games injuries permitting.

GD,

Would we not then be better suited in switching Williams and Halfpenny?

As for the squad I think JD will get a run out against Fiji ready for the other two games which then does bring about the question of what 2 will fill the remaining places in the back line given North will start on one wing. Also against either Fiji or NZ we have to give a start to a front of Jenkins Baldwin and Lee as they are the likely candidates to start against the Boks what with James and Hibbard unavailable.

So does he go with wholesale changes against Fiji or just slot in a few new kids or those coming back from injury/replacing those injured yesterday.