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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 17 Nov 2014, 10:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

Sr,
1).Correct. Wonderful is right. Though in the American order of things behind the NFL, College Football, High School Football, NBA, College B'ball.
2).Not much of a market: 21,000 per home game.
3).But no other nations pay their players a fraction of this sort of bounty. He'll probably end up using PED's, just like his predecessor as highest paid.
Ridiculous money!

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Post by JAS Fri 05 Dec 2014, 8:29 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:Redeeming story on Woods or decent publicity stunt?

https://youtu.be/mQvEoihC4MQ

Wouldn't say it's either MPB but it's a good watch. Good on the kid and to be fair to Woods, hat's off to him for doing it.

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Post by GunsGerms Sat 06 Dec 2014, 7:58 am

JAS wrote:
MustPuttBetter wrote:Redeeming story on Woods or decent publicity stunt?

https://youtu.be/mQvEoihC4MQ

Wouldn't say it's either MPB but it's a good watch. Good on the kid and to be fair to Woods, hat's off to him for doing it.

Tiger seemed to be enjoying himself anyway. Nice story. Reminds of my cousin, Great Britain paralympic medalist. Some people are good a focusing on positives.

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Post by McLaren Mon 08 Dec 2014, 1:19 pm

Well this didn't fair well on the twitters fashion analysis

Spoiler:

I was reminded of the woman from eastenders with the dangling earrings.
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Post by pedro Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:35 pm

Not being an Arsenal fan, but Ramsey's 2nd must be contender for goal of the year.

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:18 pm

Quite so pedro, brilliant strike.
But Gerrard's free-kick was pretty bl00dy exquisite too.
But otherwise he had a terrible game, as did the rest of Mr.Rodgers men; they started out as if none of them had ever met each other before.
Still think the Fenway people had a say in the summer Liverpool "investments" (or cash dump whichever you prefer); these prima donnas are the very antithesis of Rodgers' usual team members.
Total idiots running Liverpool, Man Utd and Tottenham right now.

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Post by pedro Wed 10 Dec 2014, 7:52 am

Selling Suarez and who do they buy to replace him? Balotelli, Lambert? Doh
If they want to be a world class team they need world class players.
Where did the £100m go they squandered lately?

PS. Great one from Sneijder also!

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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:07 am

Until last season i did not realise i had such a hatred of Liverpool. Something to do with Brendon, and something to do with them being so sucessful when i was a kid, and everyone supported them. Before everyone supported Man Utd, and then Chelsea, and now probably Man City.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:19 am

beninho wrote:Until last season i did not realise i had such a hatred of Liverpool. Something to do with Brendon, and something to do with them being so sucessful when i was a kid, and everyone supported them. Before everyone supported Man Utd, and then Chelsea, and now probably Man City.
Pretty strong. Pretty ridiculous as well considering it's football being talked about.
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Post by Davie Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:38 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Until last season i did not realise i had such a hatred of Liverpool. Something to do with Brendon, and something to do with them being so sucessful when i was a kid, and everyone supported them. Before everyone supported Man Utd, and then Chelsea, and now probably Man City.
Pretty strong. Pretty ridiculous as well considering it's football being talked about.

I guess if you take it out of the context in which it was said, then it may be ridiculous

Within the context of a football conversation, you may or may not agree with it, but it's not really ridiculous

Many (most?) football fans "hate" one or more other teams - within the context of the conversation. Bit pompous IMO to call it ridiculous

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Post by pedro Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:47 am

beninho wrote:Until last season i did not realise i had such a hatred of Liverpool. Something to do with Brendon, and something to do with them being so sucessful when i was a kid, and everyone supported them. Before everyone supported Man Utd, and then Chelsea, and now probably Man City.
For some reason (historical I guess) Chelsea and Man City have far from the 'global' appeal Liverpool and Man U do. Don't think you'll find many Chelsea or Man City supporters abroad.

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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:49 am

In Sport you should be allowed irrational hatred of people of teams. You hate your rivals, or you hate players that wind you up. It is hate in a sporting term.

I am not going to be declaring a fatwa on Brendan or the people of Liverpool.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 11:06 am

pedro wrote:Selling Suarez and who do they buy to replace him? Balotelli, Lambert? Doh

Who do you suggest he could have brought in to replace the loss of Suarez?

I feel a touch for Rodgers, and think he's a good manager. He lost his best player, one of the top 5 forwards in the world and yeah he didn't get the replacement right at the first go but come on, easier said than done bearing in mind there's no ready made replacement just waiting for him. Someone with potential has to be brought in and nurtured and that takes time. Yet he was under pressure for immediate results and so took a risk on Balotelli, a guy who is still young and could be world class if he was sane. It was a risk and didn't work but you can understand the logic.
I'm no Liverpool fan by the way......
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Post by McLaren Wed 10 Dec 2014, 11:20 am

It's the terrible players that liverpool keep signing and persist in playing that make me "hate" them in the footballing sense. (Navy that was a ridiculous comment and you know it)


At the moment they have Henderson who probably wouldn't get in the team in any other premiership side, certainly not in the prominent role he gets at liverpool. And what about Lambert, Balotelli, Allen (not as bad as the rest but not great), Gerrard (never understood the obsession pepole have with him), Johnson, Lucas etc etc

The whining about them not contending the league (ever) is so unjustified when you consider the players they have. They are almost the opposite of Manchester United, who every always claims have a terrible set of players but keep winning stuff - not last year of course - but when you consider how much man utd spend they clearly should always do well.
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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 12:37 pm

I would say Jordan henderson would get in to more premier league midfields then he wouldn't ( and it has not been premiership since 2004) Lambert was influential at Southampton last season, Balotelli at AC Milan, Joe Allen cost 16million, i dont see anything in him, but he does a job. These players are not rubbish. I dont think the manager has been able to put in place a style for the squad since Suarez left and Sturridge is injured.

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Post by McLaren Wed 10 Dec 2014, 12:43 pm

You claimed Navy was being ridiculous, but caring about premier league and premiership really us ridiculous. Wink

The players mentioned are clearly not rubbish, but none of them will lift a team to top 4 status. And in most cases, particularly Henderson, they meet the standard of premiership censored average.
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:20 pm

Don't understand why Liverpool don't play Lambert w/Lallana - if they don't play Lallana, hope he returns to St.Mary's in time for the return of Jay Rodriguez.

Harsh on Henderson, a player I've always liked and thought was terrific last year. Johnson and Enrique seem to be past it, shame that Flanagan's not fit, he too was very good last season.
Allen has his place but pointless playing him AND Lucas when you need to score goals.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:35 pm

It seems to me that there are a lot of decent players around the world who can get you a top 8 finish in the premier league. With a decent coach, clubs like Southampton, Swansea etc have shown the way.

However, to achieve a top 4 finish requires a whole new level of player, and it seems to me that these players are very difficult to find.

The liverpool squad is packed full of top 8 players (Lallana, Henderson etc), but only has a very small number of top 4 players (Sterling, Gerrard still just about) so losing one is a huge blow.

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Post by super_realist Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:36 pm

I can't buy into the Sterling hype at all. Seems like a lightweight mincer to me and suffers from the hype of being the "next big England player"

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:44 pm

ray,
Most of these guys played like a Top One team last year, remember.

I'm not saying it's Rodgers' fault, still suspect FSG spent the Suarez money for him, but to try and superimpose half a dozen new players never works and is to the detriment of guys like Coutinho and Henderson who played so well last year. Sterling is OK but he's a luxury player, disappears when expected to do any heavy lifting. Lightweight.

PS: What about Borini? He played like a Top 8 player at Sunderland last year but now doesn't even get a seat on the bench. Hope he returns to Sunderland.

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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:45 pm

Sterling has a lot of potential, and at times has had some great games, i do think he is under to much pressure at the moment, as he seems to be playing week in week out, as liverpools stand out player, liverpools poor form isnt helping. If he works hard at his game he can be very good. I do not think he seems gay though, i also do not see what calling him a mincer brings to the conversation.

The best available players only really want to play for two teams. If these teams do not need them they will go to the tier below that level. Such as Bayern, Man Utd, Arsenal, PSG. Unfortunately Liverpool are further down the pecking list, so will have to get good players from smaller clubs, problem players, or players with potential. When Arsenal Sign Sanchez, Manyoo get Di Maria, Chelsea get Cesc, then it is a struggle.

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Post by super_realist Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:52 pm

I didn't mean he was a mincer, I meant he plays in a mincing fashion and as a result he's far too lightweight. He's been simply pushed out of the way in too many games.

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Post by pedro Wed 10 Dec 2014, 1:59 pm

Agree that Balotelli was a gamble, but they got him cheap. Also agree that Sturridge is a great loss and Suarez is hard to replace. But hey, you don't have 2-3 years to build up new strikers. You have 100m to spend, why just look at the £5m has-beens at AC Milan?

On top, selling Agger (understand he wasn't Rodgers cup of tea) has contributed to the dodgy defence we see now. Don't get that either. Lucas wasn't Rodgers cup of tea either but this season he seems a regular?

And agree about Sterling: a lightweight luxury player. Fun to watch but rarely dangerous.

And finally, Liverpool is probably (one of) the clubs with most worldwide fans. I'm sure many top players would rather play for them if they could choose btw for instance Arsenal and Man City.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:01 pm

I rate Sterling very highly, still a long way from the finished product, but his quick feet and pace make him very difficult to tackle, especially in the  penalty area. Like Christiano Ronaldo he draws a lot of fouls so wins penalties and gets defenders booked / sent off. Contrast with Lallana who has quick feet but lacks the pace and drive to take advantage of it.

If Sterling was at Arsenal, or Man U under Fergie, he would be used sparingly and developed as a long term prospect. Rodgers doesn't have the luxury of nurturing players for the future so has asked a lot of Sterling this season.

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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:13 pm

Remember when Ronaldo first started at Man Utd, he was all stepovers and fancy flicks. He was also pretty lightweight, but has always been tall. He bulked up, cut out the rubbish, and is a totally different player, more power then just tricks. He is an awesome player.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:15 pm

pedro,
George Gillett told me that one of the reasons he invested in Liverpool was his belief that they had a larger worldwide fan base than anyone except Man Utd (RM & B may have claims there); I have little doubt that if his choice of partner and timing had been a little better he'd've exploited that base far better than FSG are doing.

Lallana reads the game as well as anyone in the Prem apart from Fabregas. He hasn't had a run in the side to show the drive he demonstrated at St.Mary's; a big reason why Liverpool are where they are in my book.

This Liverpool team aren't pressing high up the pitch like Suarez and Sturridge were doing last year - that wasn't being a world-class striker, that was having world-class desire. You're not going to get that from Balotelli in a million years, Lambert's not fit enough to do it by himself, and Sterling doesn't seem motivated. Saints played the same style last year and Lallana fed off it, taking the game to the opposition - at Anfield the opposition is taking the game to Liverpool. Big difference. (Agree about Agger, for all his short-comings.)


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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:47 pm

Davie wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Until last season i did not realise i had such a hatred of Liverpool. Something to do with Brendon, and something to do with them being so sucessful when i was a kid, and everyone supported them. Before everyone supported Man Utd, and then Chelsea, and now probably Man City.
Pretty strong. Pretty ridiculous as well considering it's football being talked about.

I guess if you take it out of the context in which it was said, then it may be ridiculous

Within the context of a football conversation, you may or may not agree with it, but it's not really ridiculous

Many (most?) football fans "hate" one or more other teams - within the context of the conversation. Bit pompous IMO to call it ridiculous
Use of the word 'hate' (or derivatives thereof) in association with football, unfortunately, goes hand-in-hand with too much past violence. Sums up too many fans and the obvious fact they can't separate verbal from physical. I suppose football support, in the U.K. at least seems to have come on a long way in the recent past though. Still, the idea that you 'hate' someone else as part of supporting 'your' team is pretty ridiculous, to me at least.
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Post by super_realist Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:52 pm

Navy, I think the term "support" is rather dubious too, seeing as most are nothing more than casual tv viewers.

So when people say they "hate" a team, it might be no closer to real "hate" than what they refer to as "support" being actual "supporting"

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Post by McLaren Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:55 pm

Navy

Do you not accept that hate is often used in a less severe form than a strict dictionary definition might suggest?

It is a rather hard stance to take that all uses of hate are equal. In this case it was clear that beninho meant it to mean something like "strongly dislike and probably dislike more so than any other team". "Hate" being used to mean least favorable among all alternatives and receiving more active criticism than other examples.
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 10 Dec 2014, 2:57 pm

True S_R. I take that point. It's the use of 'hate' by people, whom too often in the past, have acted out that 'hate' in reality.
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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:04 pm

I agree that Sterling is lightweight, doesn't make him a bad player but i would rather see Lallana playing than him. That said, he has pace, which is king these days.

Pedro, it's very well to say you don't have 2-3 years to develop a forward but if that's what it takes, whether Rodgers has that time or not, that's what it takes.
Who do you suggest that he should have bought rather than 'AC Milan' has-beens that would have been an adequate replacement for Suarez without needing any growing time or without being a gamble, ie who could they have got that is as good and complete a player as Suarez?

Answer - no one

And yet, people are surprised that he didn't manage it. Ridiculous
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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:25 pm

Liverpool should have brought Bony from Swansea. He is a good player, they will have had to pay over the odds, but that didnt stop them when getting the saints players. He isnt suarez, he may not be technically as good as mario. But he would have been a better signing. They may have tried to sign him though.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:36 pm

Easy to say that now Ben

Is there any chance we might be sitting here now saying he hadn't done great if they had bought him? Yes of course.
Would you hear fans saying 'he had £100m and the best he brought in was Bony' - yes of course.

He basically had to gamble on something. I can see the sense to the Balotelli signing / gamble. No it hasn't worked out but that was always a risk and not one he could really mitigate in any way
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Post by McLaren Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:47 pm

Does anyone know whether liverpool can afford to offer the same wages as Chelsea, Man Utd, City and Arsenal?

Can liverpool even match spurs wage bill? If not, then why is it a surprise to see them fail to attract the top players.
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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:51 pm

Luis Suarez was on a reported 200k pw. Glen Johnson is on £120k i believe. They can pay the money. Its just a lack of success has hampered who wants to join them. Arsenal always used to be the ones limited by salary, but they blew that with Ozil and then Sanchez. I think Suarez took a cut to go to Barcelona.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:52 pm

Not sure I understand why LFC had to "gamble on something".

Tottenham p1ssed away the Bale money and now Rodgers/FSG have done the same with the Suarez loot.

Thought Balotelli's signing was ridiculous at the time and said so - didn't imagine he'd be so spectacularly awful, but very glad he has. Has never looked remotely interested - he exemplifies the exact opposite of the qualities that made LFC so successful last year.

Other clubs have unearthed decent strikers without resorting to Mario's nuclear option. Good riddance to a club I've always admired.


Mac,
When you fritter money away as LFC have done, don't you think some of the squandered cash could have been invested in wages or, better still, the academy?

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:13 pm

Kwini, because replacing Suarez was not possible. It's accepted that he couldn't bring in someone with promise and nurture them into be world class because he would be given time and if he had bought no one everyone would have said 'he had £100m and didn't spend'.
So to try and replace Suarez with someone fairly ready to hit the ground running at anywhere near a Suarez level was always going be a gamble on someone.
Balotelli was a gamble, everyone knew that, but a decent one, it could have paid off.
Who was he supposed to buy that was any more guaranteed to do well? Who was there that could get anywhere near Suarez? No one.

Yes other clubs unearth players but they also go through a lot of Lamberts and Balotellis in the meantime
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Post by westisbest Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:15 pm

I thought they were going to go for Benteke.

They can keep their mits off him.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:17 pm

westisbest wrote:I thought they were going to go for Benteke.

They can keep their mits off him.

Hmm, maybe West
I'm not entirely convinced he wasn't a one season wonder. I hope i'm wrong. Rumours were Spurs put in a £25m bid at one point which was turned down. the rest of the side needs strengthening so badly i wonder if they'd been better off taking it
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Post by westisbest Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:27 pm

He's quality.

Don't think he's a one season wonder.
Very good player. We need him badly.

Midfield is very light, especially without Delph.
But need to hold onto Benteke.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:33 pm

What are you basing the not a one season wonder opinion on West? Not saying you're wrong, i hope you're not, but I don't see any evidence to the contrary.

Midfield is desperately lacking creativity and the defence is SHOCKING

If they can get decent money for Benteke and improve the side more roundly I suspect that might be more of a benefit that just keeping him. We’ll see
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Post by westisbest Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:45 pm

Like you said we will see, just going by from what I see from him.
Just an opinion, time will tell.

In the few games he has played this season he has continued to  do well.
Was decent against Palace. Took his goal well and showed great strength to win the ball.
Not just his goal scoring, but his all round play.
23 games left and if he keeps injury free, can see him doing well.
He just does'nt seem a one season wonder, think he will get even better, with or wothout Villa.

Big shame he got injured last season.
Would have loked to have seen him at the world cup.

Have actually been impressed with the defence of late(Cissokho aside), but we could do with improving it.
Maybe the money from Vlaar leaving may help.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:50 pm

Not if Vlaar goes to Napoli on a free at the end of the season as is being reported!

Completely agree v Benteke at the WC. Not sure I agree re his form so far this season though. He's only played 5 times mind you. Fingers crossed
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:55 pm

MPB,
Agree about the striker options - except that saving most of their money was an option, and gambling on Balotelli was always going to end in tears. They wasted three months trying to make it work. Futile.

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Post by westisbest Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:59 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:Not if Vlaar goes to Napoli on a free at the end of the season as is being reported!

Completely agree v Benteke at the WC. Not sure I agree re his form so far this season though. He's only played 5 times mind you. Fingers crossed

Keep hearing Utd & Saints are after Vlaar(in january).
Get some money for him.

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Post by beninho Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:00 pm

Benteke scored 10 last season in an injury plagued season, and 19 the year before. So he is already more then a one season wonder. He is pretty young aswell has the potential to be a top centre forward. I could see him at Chelsea or a mourinho team who likes a strong target man.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:01 pm

Kwini, I don't think he could have just sat on the money. If he had it's likely they wouldn't be any better than they are, they certainly would not be 2nd in the league, and everyone would be blaming his inactivity.

A bit doomed if he did doomed if he didn't.

What's certain is replacing Suarez was nigh on impossible and that needs to be accepted. It will take some time to get back to the level they were at with him in the team. Nothing Rodgers can do about that in my view
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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:03 pm

westisbest wrote:
MustPuttBetter wrote:Not if Vlaar goes to Napoli on a free at the end of the season as is being reported!

Completely agree v Benteke at the WC. Not sure I agree re his form so far this season though. He's only played 5 times mind you. Fingers crossed

Keep hearing Utd & Saints are after Vlaar(in january).
Get some money for him.

And Arsenal.
If he's off anyway I agree better to sell in Jan
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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:05 pm

beninho wrote:Benteke scored 10 last season in an injury plagued season, and 19 the year before. So he is already more then a one season wonder. He is pretty young aswell has the potential to be a top centre forward. I could see him at Chelsea or a mourinho team who likes a strong target man.

He's not.
The 19 goal season is the one season I'm referring to. 10 goals isn't anything Dwight Gayle can't get you. Injuries last season yes but that doesn't make him any less of a one season wonder so far.
Yes he is young and and yes he has potential
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Post by pedro Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:22 pm

It was no surprise Suarez was leaving. Realistically they had the better part of a year to do their home work and scout for a replacement(s) less obvious places. Can't give any names but always plenty of good forwards in smaller leagues (such as the Dutch), as well as South American, or even second tier Spanish or French clubs. (Didn't Suarez come fron Ajax btw?)

Ironically the Saints are doing pretty well this year... Maybe there's a connection somewhere... Whistle

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:33 pm

Ped, I don't think he was going anywhere until he bit Chiellini in the world cup. He had just signed a new contract! So they had barely no time.

Plenty of players in other leagues yes but all gambles just as Suarez was at the outset, which is the point
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