Who will be the no. 1 outside half at Bath ?

First topic message reminder :

Well, now that the worst kept secret in Wales has now been made official, what is going to happen at Bath ? I doubt that Rhys Preistland has gone to Bath to play second fiddle to Ford, so how do we see things going ?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30694432

TightHEAD wrote:Its Bath and Bruce Craig we're talking about,  so its a £1 salary on the books



plus on the side a new house costing £299.999 ;)

A new house in Bath costing £299.999!! Reckon he'll get more than a 1 bed maisonette mate!

Ah well see this is where we are all wrong according to Huw Edwards on the beeb just now Priestland will be competing with Ford for the No8 shirt.

Bath are really mixing it up this season - gotta love the knowledge of presenters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30698374

Could be why he has decided to leave wales

nathan wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30698374

Could be why he has decided to leave wales

That and money yeah.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

That and money yeah.

Rumoured to be around £300k. That's pretty substantial for a bench warmer understudy to a 21 year old.

Gotta love unsubstantiated rumours being spread by, well muck spreaders.

LondonTiger wrote:Gotta love unsubstantiated rumours being spread by, well muck spreaders.

The rumour is from the bath forum. I am a season ticket holder at Bath RFC, and us Bath fans would appreciate you midlanders not calling us muck spreaders.....!

Priestland is an awful and erratic player, if you give him a platform and the scrum half throws the ball for him to run onto, then he is capable of running 3 steps forward, passing left to a straight running inside center, then looping around them. Other than that, expect interception passes, missed tackles, loss of the ball in contact and a player looking at the floor, with the weight of the world on his shoulders every time he misses a easy kick at goal.
Priestland hasn't hit any kind of consistent form since 2011, and there was a reason fans were booing him against Australia, and that's because he isn't a quality player, regardless of the fact he seems for some reason to be a favorite of Gatland.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Gotta love unsubstantiated rumours being spread by, well muck spreaders.

The rumour is from the bath forum. I am a season ticket holder at Bath RFC, and us Bath fans would appreciate you midlanders not calling us muck spreaders.....!

Quite right, you put him in his place, "muck spreaders" refers to that lot in Bristol!

According to wales on line Henson maybe off to Bristol or Newport. I can t understand Bath going for Priestland when they had Henson unless they think Priestland is better at FB than Henson (who is no FB).

maestegmafia wrote:[...a bench warmer understudy to a 21 year old.

You seem very focused on George Ford's age. Do you subscribe to a Japanese theory of company management which awards seniority to the oldest employees? Personally, I tend to believe coaches ought to make the best player their first choice, not the oldest, most-capped or highest-paid.

In a well-run squad system, first choice players don't start, let alone play all games. The other players need to maintain match-sharpness, and that means starting them, or at least bringing them on as substitutes, in key fixtures. I know Leicester fans disagree strongly, but Cockerill got the balance wrong when he had Flood and Ford on his books. Saracens have done better with Hodgson and Farrell, helped in great part by an injury to Hodgson which gave Farrell a lot of game time a few years ago.

That's another point, of course. Fly halves do get injured. The year leading up to the World Cup is going to take its toll on most players involved. That could include Ford and Priestland, By having both, Bath can manage their workload better after the tournament to keep them relatively fresh across the season.

The Dragons have been on about 2 marquee signings recently so maybe Henson will be one of them.

Rugby Fan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:[...a bench warmer understudy to a 21 year old.

You seem very focused on George Ford's age. Do you subscribe to a Japanese theory of company management which awards seniority to the oldest employees? Personally, I tend to believe coaches ought to make the best player their first choice, not the oldest, most-capped or highest-paid.

In a well-run squad system, first choice players don't  start, let alone play all games. The other players need to maintain match-sharpness, and that means starting them, or at least bringing them on as substitutes, in key fixtures. I know Leicester fans disagree strongly, but Cockerill got the balance wrong when he had Flood and Ford on his books. Saracens have done better with Hodgson and Farrell, helped in great part by an injury to Hodgson which gave Farrell a lot of game time a few years ago.

That's another point, of course. Fly halves do get injured. The year leading up to the World Cup is going to take its toll on most players involved. That could include Ford and Priestland, By having both, Bath can manage their workload better after the tournament to keep them relatively fresh across the season.

The focus was on the amount of money that Bath are apparently spending on Priestland for someone that most posters on here seem to think will be bench warming for George Ford.

I'm rather disappointed Tigers didn't sign Priestland for "300k", would have been interesting to read the speculation about whether a kack fly half was there to warm the bench or would be the first choice ahead of a clearly superior Welsh fly half, or whether it's only happening because it's a clearly superior English fly half

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

That and money yeah.

Rumoured to be around £300k. That's pretty substantial for a bench warmer understudy to a 21 year old.

Wow.  £300,000 annual will make it difficult for Bath to stay under the salary cap............

RP may be flakier than a stale croissant in a wind tunnel, but he's a smart enough fellow and he'll know what he's getting into. He knows that he'll be playing second fiddle to Ford but presumably believes that he'll get his chance at some point and is happy enough to be involved in the set up of a very large club whilst he's waiting.

It took Tom Heathcote a full season to realise that not playing is bad for your international aspirations but Priestland apparently does not have that particular problem.

Where's this "rumour" of £300k come from? GeordieFalcon posted it without any sort of reference. A quick search comes up with something on a Sale forum, but again, no indication where it came from. Might be that much but sounds a lot.

My point exactly Hammer and that's why I asked him for a source, as I was really surprised to read it! There's nothing on the Bath fan forums either. Amazing how it is now all over this forum as 'confirmed'.

Maesteg said it WAS on the Bath forum (do you mean it's not mentioned at all, or that the source isn't mentioned?)

Shifty wrote:Priestland is an awful and erratic player, if you give him a platform and the scrum half throws the ball for him to run onto, then he is capable of running 3 steps forward, passing left to a straight running inside center, then looping around them.  Other than that, expect interception passes, missed tackles, loss of the ball in contact and a player looking at the floor, with the weight of the world on his shoulders every time he misses a easy kick at goal.  
Priestland hasn't hit any kind of consistent form since 2011, and there was a reason fans were booing him against Australia, and that's because he isn't a quality player, regardless of the fact he seems for some reason to be a favorite of Gatland.  

You didn't see him kicking the goals, and setting up Liam Williams try against the Ospreys at the weekend then, you know the game where he outshone the star flyhalf of the moment. Come on man take your blinkers off.

HammerofThunor wrote:Maesteg said it WAS on the Bath forum (do you mean it's not mentioned at all, or that the source isn't mentioned?)

I haven't seen it on a bath forum, might be another one though.

On his day Priestland is excellent. His main issue is that his day comes one weekend in three. Whether playing back up and bench warmer will help his consistency is what we'll find out.

Ford has played pretty much every game he's been eligible for this season.

He is an erratic player which is due to his confidence issue but he is not an awful player by a long way.

I am not sure he will or for how long it would last but if he could regain his 2011 form I would be more than happy for him to be in the Welsh set up and if he reached that level again then Bath have got another top player to challenge Ford.

formerly known as Sam wrote:On his day Priestland is excellent. His main issue is that his day comes one weekend in three months.  Whether playing back up and bench warmer will help his consistency is what we'll find out.

Ford has played pretty much every game he's been eligible for this season.

That's better - makes sense now.

Priestland can be prone to drops in quality when his confidence is low but when he's one he is very good. He has been low since 2012 but he seems to be coming right this season. He's had some top quality performances in the last few weeks and Bath could have got him just at the right time. If he does get some form and keep it up then he should be first choice. He won't ever be though.

This season he has put in MOTM quality performances in both European games at home (Leicester and Ulster) and also against the Ospreys at home. So seeing as those are the three biggest games we have played at home, I would say his for is looking good against big name sides.

BamBam wrote:I'm rather disappointed Tigers didn't sign Priestland for "300k", would have been interesting to read the speculation about whether a kack fly half was there to warm the bench or would be the first choice ahead of a clearly superior Welsh fly half, or whether it's only happening because it's a clearly superior English fly half

And here it comes, I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to bring the English V Welsh nonsence into this debate.

BamBam wrote:I'm rather disappointed Tigers didn't sign Priestland for "300k", would have been interesting to read the speculation about whether a kack fly half was there to warm the bench or would be the first choice ahead of a clearly superior Welsh fly half, or whether it's only happening because it's a clearly superior English fly half

I don't think I have read any post saying he is going to walk straight in and be first choice, most recognise it is a huge gamble on his part given his confidence issues and how it does affect his game but its also acknowledge by many that if he can get his confidence up (has been growing of late) then he is capable of challenging Ford as he would of been Williams if he had gone to Tigers.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

BamBam wrote:I'm rather disappointed Tigers didn't sign Priestland for "300k", would have been interesting to read the speculation about whether a kack fly half was there to warm the bench or would be the first choice ahead of a clearly superior Welsh fly half, or whether it's only happening because it's a clearly superior English fly half

I don't think I have read any post saying he is going to walk straight in and be first choice, most recognise it is a huge gamble on his part given his confidence issues and how it does affect his game but its also acknowledge by many that if he can get his confidence up (has been growing of late) then he is capable of challenging Ford as he would of been Williams if he had gone to Tigers.

If anything challenging Williams would have been easier, as he has the mental edge of knowing that when Owen was at the Scarlets, he was dropped the moment Rhys was fit.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:I'm rather disappointed Tigers didn't sign Priestland for "300k", would have been interesting to read the speculation about whether a kack fly half was there to warm the bench or would be the first choice ahead of a clearly superior Welsh fly half, or whether it's only happening because it's a clearly superior English fly half

And here it comes, I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to bring the English V Welsh nonsence into this debate.

We didnt start it. This thread was always verging on a wind up. As Saint pointed out

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Probably similar to Tigers, Priestland will get an opportunity and then be prefered to the rookie.

Statements like this make the English laugh at you.

Well, according to Jiffy, Preistland would not be going to Bath unless he thought he was in for a chance at being first choice:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30704034

LordDowlais wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Its Bath and Bruce Craig we're talking about,  so its a £1 salary on the books



plus on the side a new house costing £299.999

I bet his contract has in it, player, scout and member of the board so he gets three salaries at 100k each. Oh, and a car for running around in, and money for advertising on his car.

Rhys will also be the match ball sponsor, but Bath will pay him for the privilege of doing so.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

BamBam wrote:I'm rather disappointed Tigers didn't sign Priestland for "300k", would have been interesting to read the speculation about whether a kack fly half was there to warm the bench or would be the first choice ahead of a clearly superior Welsh fly half, or whether it's only happening because it's a clearly superior English fly half

I don't think I have read any post saying he is going to walk straight in and be first choice, most recognise it is a huge gamble on his part given his confidence issues and how it does affect his game but its also acknowledge by many that if he can get his confidence up (has been growing of late) then he is capable of challenging Ford as he would of been Williams if he had gone to Tigers.

If anything challenging Williams would have been easier, as he has the mental edge of knowing that when Owen was at the Scarlets, he was dropped the moment Rhys was fit.

I'm rather disappointed in myself for biting like that (few drinks last night!) but the OP and other posts further down clearly insinuate that Priestland will inevitably be the first choice relatively soon, when based on the past season and a half, one of the two contenders has been clearly superior

BamBam wrote:I'm rather disappointed in myself for biting like that

Hey we all do it

Bathite wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Maesteg said it WAS on the Bath forum (do you mean it's not mentioned at all, or that the source isn't mentioned?)

I haven't seen it on a bath forum, might be another one though.

The express are now saying that Bath have signed Preistland for 300k a week:-

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyuni ... on+Feed%29

When I press that link I get:

Page Missing Mystery!

Well, we tried. We really did try. But we just cannot find the page that you were looking for. It’s a real shame but we hope you decide to look at a different page on the Express while we try to figure out where it’s got to. You could always use the search box at the top of the site and try again. Or maybe you’d like to see something from these sections instead?

Sorry, this is what it says, I have put the Preistland bit in bold:-



The cap has long been a standing joke in the English game with suspicions of breaches rife, but the scale of the abuse was yesterday revealed by Sale director of rugby Steve Diamond.

"I know what the salaries are for all the players, I know what the agents are touting the players at.

"I know what my players are being offered by other clubs. All it takes is three or four nut jobs to blow the salaries out of the window and it is carnage," said Diamond.

"One would suggest that some clubs are spending £2m to £2.5m more than the cap - they'd have to be."

I wouldn't say they're ignoring the salary cap - they're using creative accountancy to get around it
Steve Diamond

Saracens and Bath, who yesterday confirmed the signing of Wales stand-off Rhys Priestland on a contract worth around £300,000 per season, are both understood to be subjects of a Premiership Rugby investigation.

Both maintain their innocence but if they are the first Premiership clubs to be found guilty, Diamond wants them to be punished heavily.

"I wouldn't say they're ignoring the salary cap - they're using creative accountancy to get around it - but it looks like one or two of them have been caught with their hand in the till," said Diamond.

"If that's what clubs choose to do it's up to them but they've got to take the consequences. The consequences have got to be harsh, or else why have it?

"We can't just hand out a five grand fine. There's got to be a deterrent put in place.

"We should enforce it and the teams that suffer for it, if it's proven, must take the consequence of their actions.

"What's the saying? Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. That's what they say in the streets where I live."

Australian rugby league side Melbourne Storm were stripped of two NRL titles, fined £900,000 and had every point deducted in the 2010 season after they were found guilty of systematic salary cap abuse.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/550587/Rugby-union-salary-cap-joke-Steve-Diamond

It could well have been from Diamond saying he thinks Priestland would be on £300k. I'm mean, come on Steve, predicting salaries based on what agents tout?

And just to be clear, Bath have confirmed they've contracted Priestland, NOT that he's on £300k.

Using the Express for a rugby source is equivalent to using the Beano for political news

They probably read it on this forum

Cheers Hammer, I do not know what I did wrong there.

HammerofThunor wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/550587/Rugby-union-salary-cap-joke-Steve-Diamond

It could well have been from Diamond saying he thinks Priestland would be on £300k. I'm mean, come on Steve, predicting salaries based on what agents tout?

And just to be clear, Bath have confirmed they've contracted Priestland, NOT that he's on £300k.

So who is quoting the following:-

Saracens and Bath, who yesterday confirmed the signing of Wales stand-off Rhys Priestland on a contract worth around £300,000 per season, are both understood to be subjects of a Premiership Rugby investigation.

Is it Steve Diamond or the Express ?

That sentence clearly makes out that Bath are paying Priestland 300k a season.

It suggests that out if you read it a certain way. But clubs NEVER confirm how much players are worth. If it was part of the press release it would be everywhere. If it was off the record they wouldn't have put it up.

Here's the club release:

http://www.bathrugby.com/news/club-news/wales-international-priestland-joins-bath-rugby

Given they just had a bit about Diamond estimating salaries based on agent cowpat I'm guessing that's where it's from.

I know what the salaries are for all the players, I know what the agents are touting the players at

I'm sorry Steve, but i doubt you know the salaries of each player in the AV and i doubt you can work it out based on agents who will often over inflate wages to try and get a better one at a new club.

The way I read the Express report, it isn't clear to me that it was Diamond who suggested Priestland will be on 300k. The journalist who wrote the article - which looks like it was published for today - could just as easily have lifted the figure from speculation already circulating on the web.

I saw a couple of tweets in my timeline with that number after the announcement, but no-one seems to know where it surfaced.

https://twitter.com/Youngsy1989/status/552413333010538496

https://twitter.com/goatteeboy/status/552452903202738176

Chris Foy at the Daily Mail says "£250,000-£300,00"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2898750/Bath-sign-Rhys-Priestland-Scarlets-Wales-fly-half-seeks-new-challenge.html

goatteeboy say he's got it from "paper talk", assuming one from the Express as no-one else seems to have said £300k.

It would be interesting to find out where these numbers come from. Is it just clubs knowing what agents tout them for? If so they'll all be pretty inflated.

BTW I wasn't saying the Express said Diamond give the number, just that I didn't think Bath had given it and Diamond was talking about knowing what players are one by what their agents ask for.

Bath would not pay 300k for a backup fly half, it's pretty obvious this is made up figure.

I can only think this article was intended as wum as Ford WILL be Baths first choice fly half next season and anyone with a slight knowledge of the AP and rugby would not need this explaining to them.

Priestland will mainly act as an upgrade to Henson/Arscott and makes good sense for Bath really. He won't be that expensive and he's an able 10/15 option, probably playing the majority of his rugby at 15 if Ford is fit.

Anyway, when you look what the international DC players in Wales are on, Warburton, Lydiate, they are both on 200k+ so he must be on something north of that, which is very expensive for a bench warmer.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Shifty wrote:Priestland is an awful and erratic player, if you give him a platform and the scrum half throws the ball for him to run onto, then he is capable of running 3 steps forward, passing left to a straight running inside center, then looping around them.  Other than that, expect interception passes, missed tackles, loss of the ball in contact and a player looking at the floor, with the weight of the world on his shoulders every time he misses a easy kick at goal.  
Priestland hasn't hit any kind of consistent form since 2011, and there was a reason fans were booing him against Australia, and that's because he isn't a quality player, regardless of the fact he seems for some reason to be a favorite of Gatland.  

You didn't see him kicking the goals, and setting up Liam Williams try against the Ospreys at the weekend then, you know the game where he outshone the star flyhalf of the moment.  Come on man take your blinkers off.

Take your blinkers off. One good game within 10 crap ones doesn't make him a superstar. Granted he played okay vs the Ospreys, better than Biggar (who still made less errors) the description here sums him up the majority of the time.

Every time we question RP's ability are going to be referred back to this novelty MOTM award? If so, shut the site down!

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, when you look what the international DC players in Wales are on, Warburton, Lydiate, they are both on 200k+ so he must be on something north of that, which is very expensive for a bench warmer.

Why must it be north of that?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, when you look what the international DC players in Wales are on, Warburton, Lydiate, they are both on 200k+ so he must be on something north of that, which is very expensive for a bench warmer.

Why must it be north of that?

Because I doubt he would move to Bath for less money.