Super Saturday, Game 3: England v France

  
ENGLAND v FRANCE
Saturday 21 March 2015
KO: 17:00
Twickenham Stadium

Referee: Steve Walsh (ARU)
AR1: John Lacey (IRFU)
AR2: Leighton Hodges (WRU)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

***********************

A. Teams

ENGLAND
 
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 36 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 8 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
09. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 46 caps)

01. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 30 caps)
02. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 65 caps)
03. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps)
04. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
05. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 37 caps)
06. James Haskell (Wasps, 57 caps)
07. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 36 caps)
08. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 16 caps)

16. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 21 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 19 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps)
19. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 50 caps)
20. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 35 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 20 caps)
22. Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks, 11 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 19 caps)

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Gaël Fickou, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 Jules Plisson, 9 Sébastian Tillous-Borde, 8 Loann Goujon, 7 Bernard le Roux, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Alexandre Flanquart, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Vincent Debaty.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Rabah Slimani, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Rory Kockott, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Mathieu Bastareaud.

B. Head to Head

85 Played 85

45 Wins 33

33 Losses 45

7 Draws 7

147 Tries 135

78 Conversions 77

151 Penalties 90

22 Drop Goals 33

1,218 Points 1,036

Three very " on brand " threads GC, looking good for the weekend!

BamBam wrote:Three very " on brand " threads GC, looking good for the weekend!

That's because I care.

Worried for England.

Against a team that couldn't or wouldn't tackle we managed 3 tries out of more then 3x the attempts, in the second half we spent so long in their half of the pitch with very little to show. And in the first half Scotland dotted down with their first real attacking chance.

I can't see France gifting us so many breaks, or making so few breaks themselves. Could be an ugly and depressing game for England.

France have been utter garbage and I just can't see how they can beat England, for me England are in pole position and whilst Wales and Ireland are capable of getting some good points on the board I think England will win the Championship.

Oh I don't know about that.  I hear Ireland has sent a delegation to France with Schmidt tips for them.... and that a WRU delegation came later to tidy up the stuff Schmidt got wrong with some Gats updates.

France will be in a good place....................... but officially NO official ever travelled officially to France from either the official IRFU or WRU....of course

England have been in this position before, playing the last game of the tournament knowing how many points they needed to win and come up short.

I agree with bedfordwelsh, France have been garbage so far but on saturday they started to play some decent rugby. They seem to have picked up a decent goal kicker from some where, and be able to put points on the board.

I do think that England will win against France. but i am not getting complacent at all.

It does not matter how many points will be needed for the win IMO. It is France we are playing, and you never know what France team will turn up. So an upset could be on the cards. I hope not.

I do hope that England do win. But will be expecting them to play a lot better rugby. than they have so far.

Steve Walsh .

Oh he's back from his business trip is he?

He went somewhere warm so he could work on his tan.

Ah delighted for him. That face is too pretty not to be pampered.

The Saint wrote:Steve Walsh .

We're doomed ... someone at the IRB has got a really bad sense of humour - was he always scheduled for this or did it change after he went walkabout?

Heaf wrote:

The Saint wrote:Steve Walsh .

We're doomed ... someone at the IRB has got a really bad sense of humour - was he always scheduled for this or did it change after he went walkabout?

He was always down to do this game and I assume has scheduled his exfoliation, fake tanning and eyebrow waxing appointments around it specially.

Actually was Nigel Owens not down for it?

Oh My! Officials removed him because of 'bias' potential seeing as Wales are back in the hunt?

Ah well

Congrats Ireland/Wales/France

George Carlin wrote:

Heaf wrote:

The Saint wrote:Steve Walsh .

We're doomed ... someone at the IRB has got a really bad sense of humour - was he always scheduled for this or did it change after he went walkabout?

He was always down to do this game and I assume has scheduled his exfoliation, fake tanning and eyebrow waxing appointments around it specially.

He's a character that Walshy - probably now my favourite ref.

The Saint wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Heaf wrote:

The Saint wrote:Steve Walsh .

We're doomed ... someone at the IRB has got a really bad sense of humour - was he always scheduled for this or did it change after he went walkabout?

He was always down to do this game and I assume has scheduled his exfoliation, fake tanning and eyebrow waxing appointments around it specially.

He's a character that Walshy - probably now my favourite ref.

Oh Dear. I hope you don't cough on that comment later in the year, Saint. That would be most unfortunate for Walsh.

SecretFly wrote:

The Saint wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Heaf wrote:

The Saint wrote:Steve Walsh .

We're doomed ... someone at the IRB has got a really bad sense of humour - was he always scheduled for this or did it change after he went walkabout?

He was always down to do this game and I assume has scheduled his exfoliation, fake tanning and eyebrow waxing appointments around it specially.

He's a character that Walshy - probably now my favourite ref.

Oh Dear.  I hope you don't cough on that comment later in the year, Saint.  That would be most unfortunate for Walsh.

Let's hope we don't do an Irish on him then, because let's be honest if Walshy got the Barnes treatment he'd be getting wrinkles a lot faster than he expected.

Well the Welsh are old hands at giving refs reasons for facelifts, Saint  Sandblasting is a specialty Welsh service for insolent refs who let the opposition win.

Potentially a few tweaks for the England team:

Stuart Lancaster is considering making only minor adjustments to his team as England seek a triumphant conclusion to their Six Nations campaign.

Replacement tight-five forwards Tom Youngs and Geoff Parling, who appeared in the second half of Saturday's 25-13 victory over Scotland, are pressing hard for promotion to the starting XV against France.

Lancaster will whittle down his extended training squad to a matchday 23 on Tuesday night and is keen to keep changes to a minimum out of the belief England have improved throughout the Six Nations.

Ireland and Wales are also competing for a title that is set to be decided by points difference, but the likely need to amass tries will not influence the head coach's thinking.

"We've used 29 players so far and that consistency of selection has helped, but there are certainly one or two people from the bench who are putting their hands up," Lancaster said.

"Geoff Parling and Tom Youngs did well. In fact the whole bench made an impact. Kieran Brookes was excellent.

"We've not made too many changes during the course of this championship because I think the team's been getting better.

"Our try scoring record [11] is almost double everyone else's [Italy are second with six tries]. By and large we've got the right personnel."

"There might be one or two tweaks, but there won't be wholesale changes."

Wales open a day of three staggered kick-offs when they face Italy in Rome before attention turns to Edinburgh where Ireland will launch their last attempt at defending their title. England then face France in the final kick-off of the day.

From that comment I think we may see a team of:

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Parling
Haskell
Robshaw
Vunipola
Youngs
Ford
Nowell
Burrell
Joseph
Watson
Brown

I personaly wouldn't want to play Lawes and Parling together, Attwood for all his criticism does a lot close in and adds a fair bit of bulk at scrum and ruck. Against the big French pack he'll be useful.

Only change I'd make would be Tom Youngs to start instead of Hartley who's been very off form this tournament.

This is the kind of game for Haskell to make an impression, France are going to come route 1 all day so he needs to bring his Wasps form to the England team now. Be big and loud, be aggressive and abrasive and tackle and carry his socks off for 60 mins then Wood can come on.

He needs some of this pre game http://www.jameshaskell.co.uk/Business/AngrySquirrel

France side named

France: 15 Scott Spedding, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Gaël Fickou, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 Jules Plisson, 9 Sébastian Tillous-Borde, 8 Loann Goujon, 7 Bernard le Roux, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Alexandre Flanquart, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Vincent Debaty.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Rabah Slimani, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Rory Kockott, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Mathieu Bastareaud.

The French bench is immense. Mas looked back to his scrummaging best last week and Slimani looks more comfortable and effective as a sub than a starter. With Dubatty starting and Atonio to come on, I assume at loosehead, the power will keep on coming from the French pack. Pretty harsh on Ben Arous who has been consistently good throughout the matches , particularly at the break down.
Kayser, Taofifenua, Chouly, Kockott, Tales and Bastereaud can all add good impact.
The key for France will be can Plisson bring his excellent Stade Francais form to the party, or will he crumble under the pressure?

BamBam wrote:France side named

France: 15 Scott Spedding, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Gaël Fickou, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 Jules Plisson, 9 Sébastian Tillous-Borde, 8 Loann Goujon, 7 Bernard le Roux, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Alexandre Flanquart, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Vincent Debaty.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Rabah Slimani, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Rory Kockott, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Mathieu Bastareaud.

It's not a team that should worry England. The French teams of old were awe inspiring - you had the likes of Imanol Harinordoquy, Betsen and Co that gave you genuine reason to believe a win was a bonus. These days - and this team - don't seem as threatening somehow. If they can be matched up front (I think England are at least equal) and contained in midfield (the question mark) England 'should' run in after 80 minutes as 6N Champions.

yappysnap wrote:From that comment I think we may see a team of:

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Parling
Haskell
Robshaw
Vunipola
Youngs
Ford
Nowell
Burrell
Joseph
Watson
Brown

I personaly wouldn't want to play Lawes and Parling together, Attwood for all his criticism does a lot close in and adds a fair bit of bulk at scrum and ruck. Against the big French pack he'll be useful.

Only change I'd make would be Tom Youngs to start instead of Hartley who's been very off form this tournament.

This is the kind of game for Haskell to make an impression, France are going to come route 1 all day so he needs to bring his Wasps form to the England team now. Be big and loud, be aggressive and abrasive and tackle and carry his socks off for 60 mins then Wood can come on.

He needs some of this pre game http://www.jameshaskell.co.uk/Business/AngrySquirrel

Nailed it

Surprised Attwood was dropped from the whole 23 though, Beshocked will be pleased! Happy to see Easter back, now if those stupid backs can keep out of his way he'll hopefully get another try.

yappysnap wrote:Surprised Attwood was dropped from the whole 23 though, Beshocked will be pleased! Happy to see Easter back, now if those stupid backs can keep out of his way he'll hopefully get another try.

Or if the post can stop blocking Haskell....

Has the England team been named?

Yappy I think Ben Arous is injured for this one

Easter comes on to the bench with Attwood out altogether.

Funny that both our starting 2nd rows haven't made it to the last game, but Lawes put in an unanswerable case last week and Parling has looked pretty handy

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/parling-starts-cole-hits/

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 36 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 8 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 46 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 30 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 65 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps)
4. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 37 caps)
6. James Haskell (Wasps, 57 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 36 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 16 caps)

Replacements

16. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 21 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 19 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps)
19. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 50 caps)
20. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 35 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 20 caps)
22. Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks, 11 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 19 caps)

Shocked at Attwood being dropped altogether. If we have a 2nd row injury in the early stages that will leave Easter exposed for a long time and against a massive French pack. Attwood's levels may have dropped off a bit but I think this is a slap in the face and not necessary.

Yet we still have to put up with Twelvetrees and no Slade or Eatsmond on the bench! I am sure they are continuing to make decisions based purely on stats, but hopefully the continuity in the backs will help.

Let's be honest, how many of that France team would you swap into the England side?
Mas may be on better form than Cole, Mermoz perhaps better than Burrell at 12 (although I'm glad not to see Fofana there), and I think anyone in their right mind would take Dusautoir over any of our blindside options, but otherwise I don't see anyone that is clearly better than their England equivalent, and I'd say England have a major advantage at halfback in the absence of Parra.

Overall, on paper I see England as being a better team, and we are more settled in selection. A couple of worries though:
1 - Depending on the earlier results, we might be chasing a points difference, which we really should have put out of site in the earlier matches. Three tries and probably 19 points disallowed because of forward passes, with Nowell's disallowed try v Ireland being particularly important as that would have counted double, taking us to +42 and Ireland down to +28.
2 - Our defence has been caught narrow a few times, especially against Italy and Scotland, and it has cost us at least 3 tries. Need to avoid giving France the opportunity to get outside, and to get their tails up.

Burrell and Joseph will have to be strong defensively, there are going to be large periods of this match where England will be holding on...

No big surprise to see Parling in for Attwood, but definitely a surprise to see Easter back on the bench and DA completely out of the side. Maybe carrying a niggle? To be fair though, Easter made a big impact off the bench against Ireland particularly, and was unlucky not to score.

In the main it's a good bench, with plenty of impact. OK, Wood is more of a steady player and I would prefer to see Care rather than Wiggy.

Be interesting to see if Cipriani gets any game time...

sensisball wrote:The French bench is immense. Mas looked back to his scrummaging best last week and Slimani looks more comfortable and effective as a sub than a starter. With Dubatty starting and Atonio to come on, I assume at loosehead, the power will keep on coming from the French pack. Pretty harsh on Ben Arous who has been consistently good throughout the matches , particularly at the break down.
Kayser, Taofifenua, Chouly, Kockott, Tales and Bastereaud can all add good impact.
The key for France will be can Plisson bring his excellent Stade Francais form to the party, or will he crumble under the pressure?

The French bench has to be immense to carry that amount of weight

dummy_half wrote:Let's be honest, how many of that France team would you swap into the England side?
Mas may be on better form than Cole, Mermoz perhaps better than Burrell at 12 (although I'm glad not to see Fofana there), and I think anyone in their right mind would take Dusautoir over any of our blindside options, but otherwise I don't see anyone that is clearly better than their England equivalent, and I'd say England have a major advantage at halfback in the absence of Parra.

Overall, on paper I see England as being a better team, and we are more settled in selection. A couple of worries though:
1 - Depending on the earlier results, we might be chasing a points difference, which we really should have put out of site in the earlier matches. Three tries and probably 19 points disallowed because of forward passes, with Nowell's disallowed try v Ireland being particularly important as that would have counted double, taking us to +42 and Ireland down to +28.
2 - Our defence has been caught narrow a few times, especially against Italy and Scotland, and it has cost us at least 3 tries. Need to avoid giving France the opportunity to get outside, and to get their tails up.

True, but I can't see it being a very big one. I don't think wales will win by more than 25 points in Rome and I genuinely think the game in Murrayfield will be close - and dare I say it, might even be a Scottish win.

yappysnap wrote:Surprised Attwood was dropped from the whole 23 though, Beshocked will be pleased! Happy to see Easter back, now if those stupid backs can keep out of his way he'll hopefully get another try.

Not pleased. Haskell,Hartley and Burrell are still starting. There is now no proper 2nd row cover on the bench - Easter is not a better 2nd row than Kruis or Attwood.

dummy_half wrote:Be interesting to see if Cipriani gets any game time...

Unlikely as the management feel that Ford needs as much game time as possible to make up for his inexperience. We had a real chance to include game breakers on the bench. Instead we have the steady Wigglesworth and two outside backs who really only cover two positions.

beshocked wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Surprised Attwood was dropped from the whole 23 though, Beshocked will be pleased! Happy to see Easter back, now if those stupid backs can keep out of his way he'll hopefully get another try.

Not pleased. Haskell,Hartley and Burrell are still starting. There is now no proper 2nd row cover on the bench - Easter is not a better 2nd row than Kruis or Attwood.

I'd have kept in Haskell, Hartley and Burrell personally, but I completely agree re: Easter. Attwood and Kruis would be better bench options in my view. An early injury to Lawes would leave you with a second row of Parling/Easter. Daft. Personally I'd have kept Parling on the bench and retained Attwood in the starting XV.

beshocked wrote:There is now no proper 2nd row cover on the bench - Easter is not a better 2nd row than Kruis or Attwood.

nor is he a better second row than Kitch - but he was the second row cover at the start of the tournament. I see it more as covering Second row and number 8. BillyV has done amazingly well to play every minute so far - but do we really want to see Wood or Haskell at 8 should billy pick up a knock?

beshocked wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Surprised Attwood was dropped from the whole 23 though, Beshocked will be pleased! Happy to see Easter back, now if those stupid backs can keep out of his way he'll hopefully get another try.

Not pleased. Haskell,Hartley and Burrell are still starting. There is now no proper 2nd row cover on the bench - Easter is not a better 2nd row than Kruis or Attwood.

Hmmm, I'm kind of with you on that one. But - Hartley has better line-out percentages than Youngs. So, although Youngs carries better, you need to be winning your set-piece and Hartley will do that for you. Its almost a Catch 22.

Well normally I'd say yes, but this 6N Hartley has been poor at the lineout by his standards. Youngs seems to be particularly bad with the lineouts when he comes on as a sub. He may well be as good as Hartley has been if he starts, and then you also get to start with the manic rucking mole on the pitch. (And just try to remember the lovely break, not the perfect pass to the guy who was supposed to be between the two English support runners)

Londontiger well I would have dropped Haskell to the bench - he would have been able to cover all backrow positions. Haskell at 8 is no worse than Easter in the 2nd row.

Exactly lostinwales.

If Hartley was in form of course I would say continue to start him, he's not.

If a player is not playing well they should be dropped. I am pretty consistent in that manner, Lancaster should be consistent in that way too.

If England were in great form then I could understand just 1 change but they are not.


To be honest Burrell at 12 so far has been largely a failure - he was much more successful at 13 surprisingly.

Seems strange that Lancaster will do things like dropping May like a stone,unceremoniously drops Kruis who wasn't in bad form and now Attwood, but leaves underperformers like Haskell,Burrell and Hartley as starters. Seems inconsistent to me.

This is exactly the sort of game where we should be calling on Attwood and for him to show his worth. We need to tame the French pack before we can bring our backs into play, and SL drops Attwood. Have to admit that if Attwood isn't nursing an injury, I don't think this is good news for him. Lack of trust, or just purely frustrated with his inconsistent performances?

Underwhelming performances from Attwood but Parling has always been a preferred pick when fit hasn't he?

Attwood hasn't done badly or well, just solid, the lineout has been shocking though and that's Parlings bag, we need it to fire against a huge French pack. If Lawes or Parling get injured early though , its a big risk not having an out and out international lock on the bench.

I guess Parling has been first choice when fit, but I do always see Launchbury and Lawes as our first choice second row. Have all 3 actually ever been fit at the same time? It would be interesting to see who SL would select in that situation. 

Our second row for the French game is very lightweight. I just hope we manage to cope against the French pack. 

I agree stirdychris- Attwood's been ok right on the line. Parling's the lineout man, but it still faltered against Scotland when he came on!

bluestonevedder wrote:I guess Parling has been first choice when fit, but I do always see Launchbury and Lawes as our first choice second row. Have all 3 actually ever been fit at the same time? It would be interesting to see who SL would select in that situation. 

Our second row for the French game is very lightweight. I just hope we manage to cope against the French pack. 

I agree stirdychris- Attwood's been ok right on the line. Parling's the lineout man, but it still faltered against Scotland when he came on!

I don't think the lineout issues were down to Parling

The Saint wrote:Steve Walsh .

Oh no....is he playing ? France signed him from Wales ?

bluestonevedder wrote:
Parling's the lineout man, but it still faltered against Scotland when he came on!

In what way?