Super Saturday, Game 3: England v France

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ENGLAND v FRANCE
Saturday 21 March 2015
KO: 17:00
Twickenham Stadium

Referee: Steve Walsh (ARU)
AR1: John Lacey (IRFU)
AR2: Leighton Hodges (WRU)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

***********************

A. Teams

ENGLAND
 
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 36 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 8 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
09. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 46 caps)

01. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 30 caps)
02. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 65 caps)
03. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps)
04. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
05. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 37 caps)
06. James Haskell (Wasps, 57 caps)
07. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 36 caps)
08. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 16 caps)

16. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 21 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 19 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps)
19. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 50 caps)
20. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 35 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 20 caps)
22. Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks, 11 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 19 caps)

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Gaël Fickou, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 Jules Plisson, 9 Sébastian Tillous-Borde, 8 Loann Goujon, 7 Bernard le Roux, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Alexandre Flanquart, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Vincent Debaty.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Rabah Slimani, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Rory Kockott, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Mathieu Bastareaud.

B. Head to Head

85 Played 85

45 Wins 33

33 Losses 45

7 Draws 7

147 Tries 135

78 Conversions 77

151 Penalties 90

22 Drop Goals 33

1,218 Points 1,036

TightHEAD wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Someone send a courier to Twickers to get our trophy.

Bottom of the Thames already mate

Schmidt; "England maybe deserved a share of the spoils"
O'Connell; "That was probably the performance of the Championship from England"
Woodward; "Ireland worthy champions"

Lots of mutual respect. Tell you what, when we meet in the World Cup semi-final we'll call it the decider

i am going to a school parents dinner party later on.

seems somehow wrong after the greatest ever weekend of international rugby, ever. full stop.

Congrats Ireland, commiserations England - very fine margins but proud of what was a fine display of attacking rugby from NH sides today

Notch wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Someone send a courier to Twickers to get our trophy.

Bottom of the Thames already mate

Schmidt; "England maybe deserved a share of the spoils"
O'Connell; "That was probably the performance of the Championship from England"

Lots of mutual respect. Tell you what, when we meet in the World Cup semi-final we'll call it the decider  

i would be thrilled if that happens as that means we got out of our group!

the try bonus point rules in the RWC pools should ensure some seriously attacking rugby too.

bring on September.

Any chance the English Women could do ours a favour and beat the French now?

This is what happens when players are allowed to go and play! So many games you see teams just trying not to lose

quinsforever wrote:i am going to a school parents dinner party later on.

seems somehow wrong after the greatest ever weekend of international rugby, ever. full stop.

Well your judgement to make your last claim is seriously called into question by your agreeing to go to a school parents' dinner party in the first place.

England may be upset about Nowells try v Ireland now.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:This is what happens when players are allowed to go and play! So many games you see teams just trying not to lose

+1

And it was a try too Guns!

All if's and buts, great day of rugby and Ireland just deserve it overall. I'm just glad Wales didn't win tbh.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:This is what happens when players are allowed to go and play! So many games you see teams just trying not to lose

+1 It was a refreshing day of rugby

GunsGerms wrote:England may be upset about Nowells try v Ireland now.

i was upset about it at the time, on principle, as a refereeing mistake where they should have used the tmo. i am less upset about it now.

we all knew what the points differences were at the beginning of each match. previous matches are water under the bridge.

Mutual respect yes, but I think o'connell and Schmidt just handle themselves well... They handle victory and defeat with class.

Congrats to Ireland the best team in the tournament for me and worthy winners even if it was nip and tuck.

Rugby the winner today

They should handicap the 6 nations... Give bonus points for tries scored... Whatever it takes to get games like today's!

Think England could've had a penalty with the driving lineout, but when you pile so many in you do run the risk of it collapsing as you can't really have that much control surely?

Anyway, great day. Congrats Ireland. Great that three teams had four wins, I think. Cracking day of drama.

GunsGerms wrote:England may be upset about Nowells try v Ireland now.

and the last scrum that the french brought down whilst we were marching forward! should of been a pen try to us

i think any of ireland, wales or england could have claimed to be worthy winners after that day's rugby.

SH sides will not have enjoyed this. Saffer-like physicality combined with glimpses of real attacking flair for all of Eng, Ire, Wal and France.

So excited about RWC.

Congrats to Ireland and Wales for their fine displays today- did the whole of northern hemisphere rugby proud.

Enjoy your evening Irish posters!!

No congrats to england blues?

quinsforever wrote:i think any of ireland, wales or england could have claimed to be worthy winners after that day's rugby.

SH sides will not have enjoyed this. Saffer-like physicality combined with glimpses of real attacking flair for all of Eng, Ire, Wal and France.

So excited about RWC.

On today yes, quins over the tournament the Irish deserved it for me

milkyboy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i think any of ireland, wales or england could have claimed to be worthy winners after that day's rugby.

SH sides will not have enjoyed this. Saffer-like physicality combined with glimpses of real attacking flair for all of Eng, Ire, Wal and France.

So excited about RWC.

On today yes, quins over the tournament the Irish deserved it for me

well they got the best points diff, so i agree

SH sides will not have enjoyed this.

You're right quinsforever. Always embarrassing to get a boner in public.

TightHEAD wrote:Haskell deserves to be towel whipped with a bar of soap in the changing rooms.

He didn't play that well

Other than that shocking second half in the opening game I am generally happy with Wales performance

We stopped Ireland winning a Grand Slam which was great and despite beating us, England didn't win the 6N which lets be honest would have been a disaster during a world cup year

Defence was good but we still need to improve in attack

Well done though boys

599 Metres run with ball 747

blimey

Ok so credit to Wales, had they have not played that way in the second half against Italy then I am sure that Ireland would not have played such an expansive game.

Massive credit to both England and France for really making the finale an absolute spectacle. England, commiserations and I cant help feeling that Ireland owe Owens a few drinks for now awarding your guys a penalty try at the end. That said, one of the best games of rugby I have seen and England certainly have been the most attacking team this 6N and it sad for them not to win.

All that said, Ireland are Champions... Cheers to all

With all the feast of rugby today, too ridiculous to be believed, really, it's the best defence in the tournament that has prevailed, as it very often does. That's fair enough and it's the best building block for the grimmer, meaner, more Stakhanovite work ethic that we can all expect to see on display in the autumn.

Refereeing probably evened itself out throughout the tournament, so no complaints there for me.

Congrats again to Ireland, and well played Wales.

nathan wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:England may be upset about Nowells try v Ireland now.

and the last scrum that the french brought down whilst we were marching forward!  should of been a pen try to us

needy nathan

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:SH sides will not have enjoyed this.

You're right quinsforever. Always embarrassing to get a boner in public.

thats why i tend to avoid kiwi comments about the ABs. yuck.

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Gents, I look at it a bit differently, though sympathise with your points of view.  It's not the last match or the one before that which are to blame.  It's year-on-year just enough to finish second which is the problem.  The head coach doing just enough to fail by slim margins.  If we have the same reault again this year, then it will be clear.  Injuries be damned.  We are being coached to being just good enough to lose.  Fan-effing-tastic.  And the RWC result will be a mirror image.  

I have not gone off about Mr. Lancaster before this 6 Nations.  I believe things take time.  But England have hit a plateau at which they appear comfortable.  We are as good as our record says we are, each season.  There has been zero improvement in our record.  Just remember Mr. Lancaster was a political appointment made by a political appointment.  Is that a recipe for Rugby coaching success?  There is a dude coaching at Quins who clearly doesn't suck.  Same as at Saints.  Maybe even at Leicester (at least he would be fun).  
One game
One match
For the future
For posterity
For England.

lol, could you imagine cockers at england.

Could we not get behind our team and talk about it after the game?

Well? Second place again.

I don't think Ireland 'deserved' to win it as I don't think any team deserves to win it on points difference, it becomes far too reliant on who you play when and where. A tournament victory shouldn't be decided upon how many points you can score against the also rans.

It was an exciting day of Rugby but also an entirely pointless one moving towards the world cup when teams will not be playing that openly trying to win by 30 or 40 points.

Personally think England can take a moral victory out of this years 6 nations having played both Ireland and Wales away while the Welsh had their two crunch games at home.

Lancaster must be getting sick of the 2nd-place position. That's his fourth in four tournaments as England coach.

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Gents, I look at it a bit differently, though sympathise with your points of view.  It's not the last match or the one before that which are to blame.  It's year-on-year just enough to finish second which is the problem.  The head coach doing just enough to fail by slim margins.  If we have the same reault again this year, then it will be clear.  Injuries be damned.  We are being coached to being just good enough to lose.  Fan-effing-tastic.  And the RWC result will be a mirror image.  

I have not gone off about Mr. Lancaster before this 6 Nations.  I believe things take time.  But England have hit a plateau at which they appear comfortable.  We are as good as our record says we are, each season.  There has been zero improvement in our record.  Just remember Mr. Lancaster was a political appointment made by a political appointment.  Is that a recipe for Rugby coaching success?  There is a dude coaching at Quins who clearly doesn't suck.  Same as at Saints.  Maybe even at Leicester (at least he would be fun).  
One game
One match
For the future
For posterity
For England.

lol, could you imagine cockers at england.

Could we not get behind our team and talk about it after the game?

Well?  Second place again.

what would you like me to say?

Gwlad wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:England may be upset about Nowells try v Ireland now.

and the last scrum that the french brought down whilst we were marching forward!  should of been a pen try to us

needy nathan

woooooosh

[quote="Nachos Jones_1"]Ok so credit to Wales, had they have not played that way in the second half against Italy then I am sure that Ireland would not have played such an expansive game.

Massive credit to both England and France for really making the finale an absolute spectacle. England, commiserations and I cant help feeling that Ireland owe Owens a few drinks for now awarding your guys a penalty try at the end. That said, one of the best games of rugby I have seen and England certainly have been the most attacking team this 6N and it sad for them not to win.

All that said, Ireland are Champions... Cheers to all [/quote]

I thought it was wrong to not have all the games at the same time, but the wales game created a perfect storm for how the day panned out

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't think Ireland 'deserved' to win it as I don't think any team deserves to win it on points difference, it becomes far too reliant on who you play when and where. A tournament victory shouldn't be decided upon how many points you can score against the also rans.

It was an exciting day of Rugby but also an entirely pointless one moving towards the world cup when teams will not be playing that openly trying to win by 30 or 40 points.

Personally think England can take a moral victory out of this years 6 nations having played both Ireland and Wales away while the Welsh had their two crunch games at home.

I thought the Irish beat us comfortably and were a bit unlucky against wales. One home one away against the biggest rivals. Hence why I think they were the best team.

milkyboy wrote:[quote="Nachos Jones_1"]Ok so credit to Wales, had they have not played that way in the second half against Italy then I am sure that Ireland would not have played such an expansive game.

Massive credit to both England and France for really making the finale an absolute spectacle. England, commiserations and I cant help feeling that Ireland owe Owens a few drinks for now awarding your guys a penalty try at the end. That said, one of the best games of rugby I have seen and England certainly have been the most attacking team this 6N and it sad for them not to win.

All that said, Ireland are Champions... Cheers to all

I thought it was wrong to not have all the games at the same time, but the wales game created a perfect storm for how the day panned out[/quote]

Do you realise how many viewers would miss the matches, you have to keep the fans in mind not just the teams

the games should never be played at the same time. dumbest idea in rugby history.

would cost the 6Ns at least 20% of its broadcasting value. money which most of the unions can ill afford to lose.

added to which we got to watch 3 unbelievably exciting matches, one after another. rather than psychotically watch 3 matches being played where each team was spending as much time following the scores in other matches, as opposed to focusing on the task at hand.

bluestonevedder wrote:Congrats to Ireland and Wales for their fine displays today- did the whole of northern hemisphere rugby proud.

Enjoy your evening Irish posters!!

Lol

milkyboy wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't think Ireland 'deserved' to win it as I don't think any team deserves to win it on points difference, it becomes far too reliant on who you play when and where. A tournament victory shouldn't be decided upon how many points you can score against the also rans.

It was an exciting day of Rugby but also an entirely pointless one moving towards the world cup when teams will not be playing that openly trying to win by 30 or 40 points.

Personally think England can take a moral victory out of this years 6 nations having played both Ireland and Wales away while the Welsh had their two crunch games at home.

I thought the Irish beat us comfortably and were a bit unlucky against wales. One home one away against the biggest rivals. Hence why I think they were the best team.

It isn't unlucky when you simply don't have the flair to get over the try line, the Welsh defended magnificently but they were allowed to by an one dimensional attack, a better team would have made the territory and possession count.

England played both rivals away so again it's not a plus for the Irish who ultimately did as much as they could as opposed to an English side who threw numerous points away against Italy and Scotland. Cannot underestimate the benefit of playing Scotland or Italy last as opposed to France either, two teams who can't really score and a team that when they click can run the ball as well as anyone.

Points difference when it's by such small margins is no way to win a championship.

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Gents, I look at it a bit differently, though sympathise with your points of view.  It's not the last match or the one before that which are to blame.  It's year-on-year just enough to finish second which is the problem.  The head coach doing just enough to fail by slim margins.  If we have the same reault again this year, then it will be clear.  Injuries be damned.  We are being coached to being just good enough to lose.  Fan-effing-tastic.  And the RWC result will be a mirror image.  

I have not gone off about Mr. Lancaster before this 6 Nations.  I believe things take time.  But England have hit a plateau at which they appear comfortable.  We are as good as our record says we are, each season.  There has been zero improvement in our record.  Just remember Mr. Lancaster was a political appointment made by a political appointment.  Is that a recipe for Rugby coaching success?  There is a dude coaching at Quins who clearly doesn't suck.  Same as at Saints.  Maybe even at Leicester (at least he would be fun).  
One game
One match
For the future
For posterity
For England.

lol, could you imagine cockers at england.

Could we not get behind our team and talk about it after the game?

Well?  Second place again.

what would you like me to say?

I don't know what there is to say, mate. My comments were not directed at you, really. But at the general frustration, the lack of a cutting edge, the lack of brains, whatever, which enables England to come second every time. And we always emerge with the same comments about improvement, hope, and so on. But second place, here we are.

Was a great game against France, if taken in a vacuum. Therefore, the mistakes and errors of prior games put us in this position. Plus a moronic yellow card. It is always something. The players do seem better than the last few years. But as I said, we are as good as our record. And our record says we are exactly the same as we always are. Great, fantastic, hopeful......losers.

Now, to be fair, I don't like the idea of having to run up the score against teams. Seems 100% against the spirit of Rugby. But these are the rules, and here we are once more. My frustration, mate.

What a stressful day!

Congrats to wales and Ireland for their big scoring performances, boo hiss to Scotland and Italy for capitulating in the second halves of their games!

What a bizarre game of rugby from England and France. Not sure if it really taught us anything bit it was great to watch.

Stunned and gutted by the outcome of that final maul, Owens can't give a penalty but can decide to penalise the attacking side.

Still as many said it was all really England's own fault, if they'd converted just 1 more opportunity in previous games they'd be winners, likewise if they'd just defended a little better against Italy, Scotland or France they'd be the winners.

quinsforever wrote:the games should never be played at the same time. dumbest idea in rugby history.

would cost the 6Ns at least 20% of its broadcasting value. money which most of the unions can ill afford to lose.

added to which we got to watch 3 unbelievably exciting matches, one after another. rather than psychotically watch 3 matches being played where each team was spending as much time following the scores in other matches, as opposed to focusing on the task at hand.

Depends whether you put finances ahead of the sanctity of competition in the modern world we know the answer. Although they do it in the football World Cup to stop (try to stop) match fixing. Bit harder to engineer a no score draw in rugby I guess, do probably less of a desk in the group stages of the rwc.

milkyboy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:the games should never be played at the same time. dumbest idea in rugby history.

would cost the 6Ns at least 20% of its broadcasting value. money which most of the unions can ill afford to lose.

added to which we got to watch 3 unbelievably exciting matches, one after another. rather than psychotically watch 3 matches being played where each team was spending as much time following the scores in other matches, as opposed to focusing on the task at hand.

Depends whether you put finances ahead of the sanctity of competition in the modern world we know the answer. Although they do it in the  football World Cup to stop (try to stop) match fixing. Bit harder to engineer a no score draw in rugby I guess, do probably less of a desk in the group stages of the rwc.

You would be putting it ahead of fans, lets not forget there wouldnt be a six nations if fans didnt watch or buy tickets.

deleted.

The stats are quite amazing. France ahead on everything except the stuff which really matters

Feel a bit sorry for Haskell - he obviously concussed his back-up brain cell when he ran into the post in the Wales game. There's only so much thinking he could do with the remaining one.

Owens bottled the penalty try at the end, but he did give us a couple of dubious ones - so we'll call that evens.

The trouble with balls-out attacking rugby is we forgot about any sort of defence. We've missed Barritt in that area.

Apart from that, the game was a bit of a one off - not sure what we can learn from it for the future. Except we could do with a better kicking game. And maybe a better coaching team.

Over the series Ireland were good for the championship.

Wow. What a great day of rugby. Firstly well done to Ireland - it is right that you won. Well done too to Wales - I thought you'd done enough to take the spoils - a truly wonderful display that was really enjoyable to watch. As to England - so proud of that performance - a very special match today. I never thought there was a chance of beating France by 26 but it was mighty close. But for some better defending in the first half who knows? The 6 Nations at its best - the best competition in international rugby for me. Maybe time for a pint of the black stuff now.

nathan wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

nathan wrote:

quinsforever wrote:youngs t. that lineout has cost us.

lol, knew it. The throw was fine, the timing wasnt which is also the fault of the jumper. But nice to get the stereotypical rubbish spouted again

sorry, yes should have said no tigers player can do any wrong before i posted. you need to stop being so defensive. i criticise robshaw as freely as youngs. get over your club allegiance. they are playing in white.

I dont care who they play for, just annoys me when people dont understand what makes a lineout work and they always thinks its the hookers fault.

Like last week the lineout wasnt great, but it wasnt completely his fault

But it did line up with our Hooker and not our caller or catchers changing. Simple logic, plus a knowledge from watching Youngs do this time after time off the bench, should heavily point towards Youngs being at least partially at fault. Though from SL's view I think bringing on a hooker to throw straight away is just stupid

Just a few sobering thought for any England fans dismissing France's performance.
If Lopez had played, you wouldnt have been gifted a 7 point lead and he may have taken some of the 12 points missed with the boot. Plisson actually played well in spells but the french defensive line wasnt nearly as strong as it has been in the rest of the tournament.
Although they lost by 20, the manner in which les Bleus played will have given them huge encouragement for the world cup. For me, DeBaty's try was the try of an amazing game, if not the tournament.
The game, and the two earlier matches,were a brilliant advert for NH rugby union after some really dull stuff in earlier rounds.
Oh, and yes, unfortunately Scotland are the worthy winners of another rustic kitchen utensil.
Well done Ireland and thanks for showing  big Dot Cotton the error of his ways by making wee greg Laidlaw his captain and scrum half, he will surely now see the light and drop him from the squad, or maybe not .........
Anyway good to see that winning the world cup remains a realistic target in the eyes of SRU chief exec Mark Dodson, on yerself you big, crazy muppet.