Great News - Barnes will not be reffing any Ireland pool games...

First topic message reminder :

...unless a scheduled ref mysteriously retires or steps down at the last minute again. I predict he will be given Ireland's quarter though if we get there.

List of ref apointments here:

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/78669

The appointments for the knock-out stages will be made after the pool stage.

Irelands record under Barnes in the last 10 years:

Match List:

Sources:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/mar/24/england-referees-elite-panel
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/pascal-pape-appeals-10-week-ban-for-kneeing-jamie-heaslip-1.2120489
http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/stats/index.html?class=1;orderby=date;spanmin1=01+jan+2005;spanval1=span;team=3;template=results;type=team;view=match
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7370102/Henry-suspected-match-fixing-after-07-loss

lostinwales wrote:

Sin é wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I know you won't consider these arguments to be compelling but he has been appointed to the elite ref panel which suggests his peers consider him to be good enough, and the fact that he was appointed (and then reappointed) carries every bit as much weight if not more than his removal.

He continues to be given high profile games to officiate, so that the powers that be continue to consider him to be amongst the best that they can find.

He also reffed Ireland against Wales at the Millenium stadium in 2009 in the Grand Slam match. Please tell me who won that one?

Seriously, you think the RFU would be happy to stage a world cup in England and not have one of their elite refs involved?

Ireland has won 3 games with Barnes as ref and the Millenium stadium game for the GS was pretty close. ROG and his drop goal remember.

I was unaware that that had anything to do with the RFU. It doesn't always have to be about politics

RFU are staging world cup. Barnes is an employee of RFU!

There are 2 from the nations that actually develop refs involved I think - with 3 from France - Joel Jutge - is head of refs - took over from Paddy O'Brien.

We have to be fair won 4 out of 12. All of those 4 have gone down to the wire and Ireland won by 1 score except for one.

Ireland v Georgia 14-10 15-Sep-07 RWC
Ireland v Wales 17-15 21-Mar-09 Grand Slam Game. Last minute penalty miss.
Ireland v Wales 26-3 08-Feb-14 The only time Ireland have suceeded to make Barnes irrelevant.
Ireland v France 18-11 14-Feb-15 Barnes gave Pape a yellow for blatant red card offense.

GunsGerms wrote:We have to be fair won 4 out of 12. All of those 4 have gone down to the wire and Ireland won by 1 score except for one.

Ireland v Georgia 14-10 15-Sep-07 RWC
Ireland v Wales 17-15 21-Mar-09 Grand Slam Game. Last minute penalty miss.
Ireland v Wales 26-3 08-Feb-14 The only time Ireland have suceeded to make Barnes irrelevant.
Ireland v France 18-11 14-Feb-15 Barnes gave Pape a yellow for blatant red card offense.

The knee in the back incident. That was debated at length here

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:We have to be fair won 4 out of 12. All of those 4 have gone down to the wire and Ireland won by 1 score except for one.

Ireland v Georgia 14-10 15-Sep-07 RWC
Ireland v Wales 17-15 21-Mar-09 Grand Slam Game. Last minute penalty miss.
Ireland v Wales 26-3 08-Feb-14 The only time Ireland have suceeded to make Barnes irrelevant.
Ireland v France 18-11 14-Feb-15 Barnes gave Pape a yellow for blatant red card offense.

The knee in the back incident. That was debated at length here

It was. Think about it, in 2010 Ireland played NZ and McCaw was lying on the ball on the wrong side of the ruck as Ireland pounded the NZ line. This all happened right in front of Barnes yet he doesnt blow up. Heaslip then uses his knee on McCaw and Barnes without hesitation gives him a straight red. Heaslip gets 5 week ban.

Thats fine. However, fast forward to 2012 Ireland v Wales and in front of Barnes Bradley Davies tips Donnacha Ryan on his head off the ball in full view of the stadium. Barnes ponders for a bit consults with the linesman and gives a yellow. Davies gets a 7 week ban.

Similarly in 2015 as mentioned above Barnes again ponders before giving Pape a yellow. Pape gets a ten week ban.

Is that consistent? No it blatently is not.

The really strange thing is that when it suits him Barnes can be decisive and he can make calls on replays himself. In December 2013 Wales played Australia in Cardiff. Australia scored a last minute try to win the game from a forward pass.

http://en.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/207769.html

Barnes referred the score to the TMO asking if the final pass had been forward. After several replays, the TMO said he had a decision but before he could say what it was Barnes interrupted saying he had seen the replays and they were inconclusive so he was awarding the try. That is a ridiculous conclusion to make notwithstanding the fact he had already referred it to the TMO and the TMO was about to have his say. He was heavily criticised by Gatland after the game for this decision.

I think this is another example of Barnes being too influential in the outcome of games. I think he likes to play God too much in games and lead games to the outcome that suits him in my opinion.

I find using individual incidents to highlight that a ref is biased against a particular nation is so ridiculous...

If you honestly believe Barnes is the reason Ireland lose then I suggest you make a formal complaint, to World rugby and the RFU.

This constant ref bashing and footballisation of rugby has to stop!

Fanster wrote:I find using individual incidents to highlight that a ref is biased against a particular nation is so ridiculous...

If you honestly believe Barnes is the reason Ireland lose then I suggest you make a formal complaint, to World rugby and the RFU.

This constant ref bashing and footballisation of rugby has to stop!

Actually I have fairly obviously demonstrated a holistic view of Barnes over a ten year period. Yes I do suspect Ireland lose more games than they should when he refs.

GunsGerms wrote:

Fanster wrote:I find using individual incidents to highlight that a ref is biased against a particular nation is so ridiculous...

If you honestly believe Barnes is the reason Ireland lose then I suggest you make a formal complaint, to World rugby and the RFU.

This constant ref bashing and footballisation of rugby has to stop!

Actually I have fairly obviously demonstrated a holistic view of Barnes over a ten year period. Yes I do suspect Ireland lose more games than they should when he refs.

Or maybe you think Ireland lose more games than they should full stop?!

GunsGerms wrote:

Fanster wrote:I find using individual incidents to highlight that a ref is biased against a particular nation is so ridiculous...

If you honestly believe Barnes is the reason Ireland lose then I suggest you make a formal complaint, to World rugby and the RFU.

This constant ref bashing and footballisation of rugby has to stop!

Actually I have fairly obviously demonstrated a holistic view of Barnes over a ten year period. Yes I do suspect Ireland lose more games than they should when he refs.

You are 100% spot on Guns, ignore the naysayers.

There is also a bit of playing devils advocate here, especially from some of the welsh posters, because in fairness their sides have got a raw deal from some of the pro12 referees against the Irish sides on a number of occasions.

Two wrongs don't make a right though and Barnes performances speak for themselves.

Thank you Rodders and yes maybe you are right. I tend to only watch games involving Ireland teams so not sure re Irish refs at all which is why I am not convinced English posters can be so sure re Barnes performances.

However, I do believe that referees are human and everyone is biased including myself so while I do think they should be shown respect and support they should also be subject to review and there should be innovative processes in place to eliminate subconscious biases and maybe even recognise conscious ones.

Some of the top law firms in the UK for example give bi-annual training to their partners and senior management on how to spot subconscious bias in their own behaviour and how to eliminate it. There can be a real puritanical attitude to certain aspects in rugby. All Im suggesting is there should be some critical thinking applied every now and then to make the game better for everyone because I do think there is enough evidence represented in the last 12 Barnes reffed Ireland games to suggest something is amiss.