Welsh injury list is serious...

First topic message reminder :

Well it looks like I've been done up like a kipper by a mate of mine... Usually he is spot on, but this time he is way off the mark or there is some clever tactics being played here.

Either way, my opening post now appears to be complete crud. But, as I live and die by my convictions, I'm leaving my opening post unedited below, so all can see what sh!t can sometimes come from my keyboard.

One thing I will add. Is I hope the reports today, that Warbs is fit, AWJ out for only a week and Liam ready for training is correct.


---------Original Post--------------------------------------
Just heard (from a reliable source - don't believe me, just wait and see), that AWJ injury is really a bad one, and he isn't expected to make a recovery before the end of the group stages. Also, Warbs injury is being played down, but advice from the medical teams is saying 6-8 weeks, and it looks like Liam Williams is estimated at another 8 weeks.

Not looking good for those players, but Tips is a good understudy for Warbs and Halfpenny wasn't ever going to be moved from 15, but where are we going to cover Alun Wyn...

munkian wrote:Like Heaslip after his back was broken or BOD being wheeled out for a Heino match ?

Cast the first stone and all that

Well with Heaslip I guess you guys did cast the first stone............. and I guess with BOD and the Provincial cottonwool boys, you guys did cast the first stone.

Pick up the one I just dropped through your glasshouse, live with it and we'll be all nice and quits Just letting you know we're much too crafty in the cottonwool sciences not to know a cottonwool guinea pig when we see one.

But, IF Warburton is out and Tipuric goes down who is expected to play 7, Faletau? And then James King to 8 I guess....

mikey_dragon wrote:But, IF Warburton is out and Tipuric goes down who is expected to play 7, Faletau? And then James King to 8 I guess....

Warburton is playing on Saturday, he isn't injured

606 I know, I was just speaking about the upcoming tournament in general (as I thought the OP was).

mikey_dragon wrote:But, IF Warburton is out and Tipuric goes down who is expected to play 7, Faletau? And then James King to 8 I guess....

More likely they would be replaced by another open side flanker. James Davies, Nic Cudd, Josh Nalvidi in sure all would love an opportunity to prove their worth

It would be Navidi then? I think he's the only capped player from that list...

Is Warburton truly fit? or is it more (Damage limitation) For the team.

Is it shoulder truly better? I guess we will see on saturday, how long he last. If he last the whole the game, then i guess he is truly match fit.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:But, IF Warburton is out and Tipuric goes down who is expected to play 7, Faletau? And then James King to 8 I guess....

More likely they would be replaced by another open side flanker. James Davies, Nic Cudd, Josh Nalvidi in sure all would love an opportunity to prove their worth

How is Gatland going to call one of those up? They didn't even train with Team Wales in the summer. More likely is, he'd call Baker up and move Faletau. Navidi by the way.

Possibly.

The problems that effect Wales regarding depth of talent effect every team in different ways. Beyond the first and second choice most nations haven't got cover either.

Injury is part and parcel of a tournament and you have to accept the ramifications should it unfortunately happen to your team.

majesticimperialman wrote:Is Warburton truly fit? or is it more (Damage limitation) For the team.

Is it shoulder truly better? I guess we will see on saturday, how long he last. If he last the whole the game, then i guess he is truly match fit.

I doubt he would have risked on Saturday if he wasn't but I have said all along that I doubt that we would see certain players against Uruguay anyway.

maestegmafia wrote:Possibly.

The problems that effect Wales regarding depth of talent effect every team in different ways. Beyond the first and second choice most nations haven't got cover either.

Injury is part and parcel of a tournament and you have to accept the ramifications should it unfortunately happen to your team.

You should Never have to accept limitations.

This is a professional sport. If you lose a FlyHalf you should be allowed hire one from the All Blacks if they don't need him on that day........ Let's get real here folks. We're living in the stone age.

SecretFly wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Possibly.

The problems that effect Wales regarding depth of talent effect every team in different ways. Beyond the first and second choice most nations haven't got cover either.

Injury is part and parcel of a tournament and you have to accept the ramifications should it unfortunately happen to your team.

You should Never have to accept limitations.

This is a professional sport.  If you lose a FlyHalf you should be allowed hire one from the All Blacks if they don't need him on that day........  Let's get real here folks.  We're living in the stone age.

Is is this all in conjunction with Timor that they are losing AIG's sponsorship in preference of Hertz???

Bugger...!

tbh i hope those injuries dont detract from what was a diabolical performance

GavinDragon wrote:tbh i hope those injuries dont detract from what was a diabolical performance

Am sure some will try to say that's why but we were shocking before the injuries and no worse after them.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Even if best case scenarios are worked on, Walers are looking at going into the first game with 4 players unlikely to be fit enough to start (Lee, AWJ, Warbs, LiW).

Add in the lack of experience in the cover on the TH and you can see why Gats has been in the press mouthing off about England - his standard diversion tactic.

We are lucky that first game is against Uruguay then, if I am honest I wouldn't have played any of them even if they were fully fit but now I would give Lee some gametime if hes recovered.

Been saying this all along, we should have used Uruguay as the warm up. Having a warm up v Italy was just plain stupid in an injury strewn squad post selection cut off. Gatland rarely makes howlers tho sbig but this time he seems to have written us off before we even start

GavinDragon wrote:tbh i hope those injuries dont detract from what was a diabolical performance

I think the injuries were the reason that was a diabolical performance. Rhys Webbs injury killed the game. The players all changed their focus. No one committed everyone treated the game differently.

Clancy didn't help, possibly the worst referee for slowing a game down.

Last week inDublin was a ferocious exciting game where the referee had a good game, ball in play for 42 minutes. Yesterday the ball was in play for 22.

I say some criticism of the team is fair and warranted but in other ways it's a bit harsh considering the circumstance.

If a bad injury happened at the RWC, the attitude is different. The players would rally together to hide their loss, yesterday was about self preservation and reducing further cost to injury.

Unfortunately Halfpenny also slipped.

maestegmafia wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:tbh i hope those injuries dont detract from what was a diabolical performance

I think the injuries were the reason that was a diabolical performance. Rhys Webbs injury killed the game. The players all changed their focus. No one committed everyone treated the game differently.

Clancy didn't help, possibly the worst referee for slowing a game down.

Last week inDublin was a ferocious exciting game where the referee had a good game, ball in play for 42 minutes. Yesterday the ball was in play for 22.

I say some criticism of the team is fair and warranted but in other ways it's a bit harsh considering the circumstance.

If a bad injury happened at the RWC, the attitude is different. The players would rally together to hide their loss, yesterday was about self preservation and reducing further cost to injury.

Unfortunately Halfpenny also slipped.

Yeah, the game definitely changed after Webb went off, none of the players were going to risk going all out right before the world cup then.

Clancy was awful, I had forgotten how monotonous his games can become, I hope we don't see him in the World Cup.

Was Halfpenny's slip due to miss placing his feet? or was it due to the roof being closed?

Does the roof cause more moisture at ground level? I have never been to the MS so i would not know.

Does the roof being closed cause the ball to be more slippery, than it would other wise be?

I wonder if Anscombe is not considered fit enough whether Gats will opt for a third hooker?

I don't think they will make a call for a good few days until things are perfectly clear.

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder if Anscombe is not considered fit enough whether Gats will opt for a third hooker?

I don't think they will make a call for a good few days until things are perfectly clear.

I guess with 2 No9s there still and the fullback position not seen as an out an out specialist position they can wait as long as want really.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder if Anscombe is not considered fit enough whether Gats will opt for a third hooker?

I don't think they will make a call for a good few days until things are perfectly clear.

I guess with 2 No9s there still and the fullback position not seen as an out an out specialist position they can wait as long as want  really.

Exactly

No need to rush.

Looks like Gareth Davies needed game time. Though I am sure that the reason he came on the pitch would have shaken him up as much as it did for the other 80,000 people there.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder if Anscombe is not considered fit enough whether Gats will opt for a third hooker?

I don't think they will make a call for a good few days until things are perfectly clear.

I guess with 2 No9s there still and the fullback position not seen as an out an out specialist position they can wait as long as want  really.

Exactly

No need to rush.

Looks like Gareth Davies needed game time. Though I am sure that the reason he came on the pitch would have shaken him up as much as it did for the other 80,000 people there.

55,000, yeah the game time was needed but never under those conditions.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder if Anscombe is not considered fit enough whether Gats will opt for a third hooker?

I don't think they will make a call for a good few days until things are perfectly clear.

I guess with 2 No9s there still and the fullback position not seen as an out an out specialist position they can wait as long as want  really.

Exactly

No need to rush.

Looks like Gareth Davies needed game time. Though I am sure that the reason he came on the pitch would have shaken him up as much as it did for the other 80,000 people there.

55,000, yeah the game time was needed but never under those conditions.

I thought Davies did well though. Made some nice breaks controlled well, good service and a nice kicking game.

I think his boxing kicking is better than Webbs anyway as that's one area of his game I think needs work. He has a quick service and has pace as well, where I think he now needs to pick up the challenge is the way he operates around the fringes. The breaks that Webb make are what makes him dangerous

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think his boxing kicking is better than Webbs anyway as that's one area of his game I think needs work.  He has a quick service and has pace as well, where I think he now needs to pick up the challenge is the way he operates around the fringes.  The breaks that Webb make are what makes him dangerous

I don't think that's an issue, Davies scores lots of tries...

It is his temperament that has always worried me about him. He also has to build a partnership with Biggar very fast.

Webb and Biggar know each other incredibly well, playing regional and national levels together.. Davies hasn't that same link. It's going to be tough for him.

Davies offers everything Webb does, except Webb is smarter and has more top level experience. I'm confident that Davies can grow into the role in a short space of time though.

mikey_dragon wrote:Davies offers everything Webb does, except Webb is smarter and has more top level experience. I'm confident that Davies can grow into the role in a short space of time though.

Yes I think it was a common consensus two seasons ago, when both players were emerging on the scene, that Gareth Davies was the superior prospect. Injury and suspension have slowed Gareth Davies progression this season.

Hard to judge his performance yesterday, due to the horrible situation that forced his entry into the game.

In the long run I would hope to see both Webb and Davies fit, in form and pushing each other for the Welsh nine Jersey.

Thought I would just say that NZ won the last WC missing not only Dan Carter arguably at his peak but also their second and third in line FHs. Not only that but. Wales came within two points of a WC final after losing Adam and Warbs sent off early on down to 14 against France. Step up you Welsh heroes.

Dontheman2 wrote:Thought I would just say that NZ won the last WC missing not only Dan Carter arguably at his peak but also their second and third in line FHs. Not only that but. Wales came within two points of a WC final after losing Adam and Warbs sent off early on down to 14 against France. Step up you Welsh heroes.

True.

We lost Priestland too, he was in great form that rwc

Dontheman2 wrote:Thought I would just say that NZ won the last WC missing not only Dan Carter arguably at his peak but also their second and third in line FHs. Not only that but. Wales came within two points of a WC final after losing Adam and Warbs sent off early on down to 14 against France. Step up you Welsh heroes.

NZ had a pretty much full strength team, were at home, got the rub of the green with the ref. Couldn't have had more go in their favour.

Sure they missed a couple of players. Big deal!

Look at the team that started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugby_World_Cup_Final


Wales have in all likelihood lost two of their key players before the RWC has started, Jonathan Davies was already out so that makes 3 before the start of the RWC.

Having to go into the pool of death with a weakened side isn't good- playing Australia they haven't beaten in years and an England side who will be playing at Twickenham plus a dangerous Fiji side who will be looking to take a scalp.

Wales can do well but the more the injuries rack up the harder it becomes. Wales can't absorb injuries like other sides.

If Wales could make it to the final with no more injuries then they would have the same as NZ!

I'm not as down beat as most regarding the Welsh injury situation.
Bottom line, a back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Liam Williams is an awesome threat. Dan Biggar can kick goals to a brilliant standard.
Mike Phillips may actually be a better scrum half than Webb for the Fiji and England games where we would have to get stuck in more.

Hell even a lock combination of Luke Charteris and Bradley Davies looks pretty good ad has delivered when it matters for Wales in the past.

We CAN'T lose Dan Biggar or Toby Faletau, everyone else we can cope without. I do hope Sampson Lee returns sooner rather than later, as Tom Francis did well verses Ireland but seemed to struggle against Italy, the scrums were a real concern.

Shifty wrote:Tom Francis did well verses Ireland but seemed to struggle against Italy, the scrums were a real concern.

I think that was more down to having Dominic Day and Bradley Davies in the boiler house. They do not stabilise the front row as good as AWJ and Charteris do.

LordDowlais wrote:

Shifty wrote:Tom Francis did well verses Ireland but seemed to struggle against Italy, the scrums were a real concern.

I think that was more down to having Dominic Day and Bradley Davies in the boiler house. They do not stabilise the front row as good as AWJ and Charteris do.

And Castro cheating with Garces not giving a flying feic.

Shifty wrote:I'm not as down beat as most regarding the Welsh injury situation.  
Bottom line, a back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Liam Williams is an awesome threat.  Dan Biggar can kick goals to a brilliant standard.  
Mike Phillips may actually be a better scrum half than Webb for the Fiji and England games where we would have to get stuck in more.

Hell even a lock combination of Luke Charteris and Bradley Davies looks pretty good ad has delivered when it matters for Wales in the past.

We CAN'T lose Dan Biggar or Toby Faletau, everyone else we can cope without.  I do hope Sampson Lee returns sooner rather than later, as Tom Francis did well verses Ireland but seemed to struggle against Italy, the scrums were a real concern.

Shifty,

I normally try to defend Cuthbert a bit as think he has wrongly been made a scapegoat and come in for more criticism than others have but after Saturday I would play Amos instead of him.

I hope Taulupe has got the errors out of his game now, most probably made more in that one game than he has in his previous 40 odd.

Shifty wrote:I'm not as down beat as most regarding the Welsh injury situation.  
Bottom line, a back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Liam Williams is an awesome threat.  Dan Biggar can kick goals to a brilliant standard.  
Mike Phillips may actually be a better scrum half than Webb for the Fiji and England games where we would have to get stuck in more.

Hell even a lock combination of Luke Charteris and Bradley Davies looks pretty good ad has delivered when it matters for Wales in the past.

We CAN'T lose Dan Biggar or Toby Faletau, everyone else we can cope without.  I do hope Sampson Lee returns sooner rather than later, as Tom Francis did well verses Ireland but seemed to struggle against Italy, the scrums were a real concern.

Cuthbert is absolute dog poopie atm - Gatland was far too optimistic thinking he could bring him up to speed after a season of dross. He cost us around 14 -18 pts on Saturday.

Exactly. Cuthbert should be dropped from the Wales squad on current form, but I guess we don't really have anyone able to come in and replace him right now. I would say Walker, but I don't really think he is that much better.

I dont think we can drop him unless he is 'injured'

I'd leave him out the Uruguay game and bring in Amos, Williams with Nip on the bench again. The former 2 need more game time and could be a mainstay in the team throughout the tournament. I also wonder whether Gatland might put Priestland to full-back.

I guess Uruguay might give him some confidence again - he is a bit of a flat track bully

If Gareth Davies's temperament gets the better of him we can always bring Mike Phillips on

Cuthbert is ok in open play but he lacks a rugby brain, North is similar and botched 2 chances he would have normally cruised through - Amos is a powerful elusive runner with a brain and far superior to Cuthbert for  me.

Ruby,

Hush now you cant criticise St George people wont like it.

RubyGuby wrote:If Gareth Davies's temperament gets the better of him we can always bring Mike Phillips on

Cuthbert is ok in open play but he lacks a rugby brain, North is similar and botched 2 chances he would have normally cruised through - Amos is a powerful elusive runner with a brain and far superior to Cuthbert for  me.

Least North looks like he cares and not a petulant child 90% of time.

Cuthbert is frustrated with himself Munk - I actually think that shows he cares when he messes up

As somebody said on twitter, should gift the opposition a mobile phone each, then Cuthbert will be back to being the big guy again.

What is the news on Halfpenny and Webb's injuries?

Well they play any part in the RWC?

It will be a big shame if they don't.

majesticimperialman wrote:What is the news on Halfpenny and Webb's injuries?

Well they play any part in the RWC?

It will be a big shame if they don't.

Webb: Out probably for the season

Halfpenny - There's talk of a possible but unlikely come back in 3 weeks

munkian wrote:I guess Uruguay might give him some confidence again - he is a bit of a flat track bully

Weren't the two games against Ireland and the one against Italy meant to do just that? It's one of the easiest no-brainers when it comes to selection to be honest; Cuthbert needs to be dropped.

mikey_dragon wrote:

munkian wrote:I guess Uruguay might give him some confidence again - he is a bit of a flat track bully

Weren't the two games against Ireland and the one against Italy meant to do just that? It's one of the easiest no-brainers when it comes to selection to be honest; Cuthbert needs to be dropped.

:thumbsup:Or in other words, Hugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Dibble & Grub