PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 1:51 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

So if Owens is biased towards Wales - why is he allowed to referee Welsh teams?

In a perfect world he wouldn't be. However he doesn't have a day job working in Wales for the WRU as far as I know. Unlike Fitzgibbon in Ireland.

Can you see the difference?

Welsh refs have held prominent positions for the WRU.

by The Great Aukster Mon 14 Sep 2015, 1:57 pm

There is no such thing as 'potential' bias. It doesn't exist. If a referee is biased then he wouldn't be allowed to referee at all because even those games not involving his team could affect his team.

No evidence of any bias (potential or otherwise) has been presented by those saying it exists. Until there is the idea is consigned to the conspiracy bin with the rest of the crackpot theories.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 1:57 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest if I saw Jake Ball do the same my heart would sink as I know it would have been a card. That's the truth.

I can believe that you believe that, but I don't believe that Ball would get a card. Why on earth would he? There was absolutely nothing wrong with Williams tackle. Some Scarlets supporters have the knives out for him. A bit like another Williams experienced (Liam), although not so much these days, as he has matured and put those cheap shot days behind him.

Yippee, I knew it wouldn't be too long before his name got brought up.

I see that as a late tackle no matter who it was who put it in, and to be honest I see it as a bit of a cheap shot no matter who it was who put it in. That said I can not say that I would not have done the same thing myself, as it must be hard to resist a chance to put a hit like that in.

I wasn't trying to rub salt into an old wound. I think it was fair enough to make the comparison. I am a fan of Liams, and have defended him on these forums.

Williams tackle wasn't a cheap shop. If I thought it was I would say so, as I have done last season. Whatever way you look at it, it was a fair tackle. Slightly late, but slightly late tackles are not cheap shots. Williams often goes in with the aim of maximum impact. That's exactly what I want him to do, legally. He didn't go in as hard as he could but, barring that, he did what he was supposed to do. Williams was holding back in that game. I think he was being overly careful in avoiding picking up a card. As much as I don't want him to be a penalty machine, I do want him doing what he does best. Crashing through defence with ball in hand, and destroying his opponents in the tackle.

I know you didn't mean anything mentioning Liam, and he is a very good comparison Hug

, my comment was meant tongue in cheek (should have used the wink or whistle smiley after it maybe). I'm not sure we will agree with the tackle, but I can see your side of it, and like I said I can not say I would not have done exactly the same thing if I were playing (but far lesser impact as I'm not big enough).

by Chunky Norwich Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:07 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

So if Owens is biased towards Wales - why is he allowed to referee Welsh teams?

In a perfect world he wouldn't be. However he doesn't have a day job working in Wales for the WRU as far as I know. Unlike Fitzgibbon in Ireland.

Can you see the difference?

Welsh refs have held prominent positions for the WRU.

I'll take that as a no.

By the way does the PrO'12 board still consist of 50% Irish members?

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:11 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest if I saw Jake Ball do the same my heart would sink as I know it would have been a card. That's the truth.

I can believe that you believe that, but I don't believe that Ball would get a card. Why on earth would he? There was absolutely nothing wrong with Williams tackle. Some Scarlets supporters have the knives out for him. A bit like another Williams experienced (Liam), although not so much these days, as he has matured and put those cheap shot days behind him.

Yippee, I knew it wouldn't be too long before his name got brought up.

I see that as a late tackle no matter who it was who put it in, and to be honest I see it as a bit of a cheap shot no matter who it was who put it in. That said I can not say that I would not have done the same thing myself, as it must be hard to resist a chance to put a hit like that in.

I wasn't trying to rub salt into an old wound. I think it was fair enough to make the comparison. I am a fan of Liams, and have defended him on these forums.

Williams tackle wasn't a cheap shop. If I thought it was I would say so, as I have done last season. Whatever way you look at it, it was a fair tackle. Slightly late, but slightly late tackles are not cheap shots. Williams often goes in with the aim of maximum impact. That's exactly what I want him to do, legally. He didn't go in as hard as he could but, barring that, he did what he was supposed to do. Williams was holding back in that game. I think he was being overly careful in avoiding picking up a card. As much as I don't want him to be a penalty machine, I do want him doing what he does best. Crashing through defence with ball in hand, and destroying his opponents in the tackle.

I know you didn't mean anything mentioning Liam, and he is a very good comparison , my comment was meant tongue in cheek (should have used the wink or whistle smiley after it maybe). I'm not sure we will agree with the tackle, but I can see your side of it, and like I said I can not say I would not have done exactly the same thing if I were playing (but far lesser impact as I'm not big enough).

Well not many of us would be as big as Nick. He's a wrecking ball of a man.

Fair enough, we will agree to disagree. At least until the return match Hug

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:14 pm

Im starting to think Chunky actually does not know what bias actually means

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:17 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

So if Owens is biased towards Wales - why is he allowed to referee Welsh teams?

In a perfect world he wouldn't be. However he doesn't have a day job working in Wales for the WRU as far as I know. Unlike Fitzgibbon in Ireland.

Can you see the difference?

Welsh refs have held prominent positions for the WRU.

I'll take that as a no.

By the way does the PrO'12 board still consist of 50% Irish members?

It wasn't a question. It's a fact. Check out the WRU site on Welsh refs that have worked for the WRU. I think it was 6, maybe 8. I had it saved on my other laptop, which you broke, and won't search for it just now, but maybe later.

Edit: Now that I've read your comment correctly; yes you're right. Take it as a no.

by Chunky Norwich Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:19 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

So if Owens is biased towards Wales - why is he allowed to referee Welsh teams?

In a perfect world he wouldn't be. However he doesn't have a day job working in Wales for the WRU as far as I know. Unlike Fitzgibbon in Ireland.

Can you see the difference?

Welsh refs have held prominent positions for the WRU.

I'll take that as a no.

By the way does the PrO'12 board still consist of 50% Irish members?

It wasn't a question. It's a fact. Check out the WRU site on Welsh refs that have worked for the WRU. I think it was 6, maybe 8. I had it saved on my other laptop, which you broke, and won't search for it just now, but maybe later.

I have looked. I'm struggling to find any Welsh PrO'12 referees that would consider Welsh players as work collleagues. As in Ireland.

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:21 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

So if Owens is biased towards Wales - why is he allowed to referee Welsh teams?

In a perfect world he wouldn't be. However he doesn't have a day job working in Wales for the WRU as far as I know. Unlike Fitzgibbon in Ireland.

Can you see the difference?

Welsh refs have held prominent positions for the WRU.

I'll take that as a no.

By the way does the PrO'12 board still consist of 50% Irish members?

It wasn't a question. It's a fact. Check out the WRU site on Welsh refs that have worked for the WRU. I think it was 6, maybe 8. I had it saved on my other laptop, which you broke, and won't search for it just now, but maybe later.

I have looked. I'm struggling to find any Welsh PrO'12 referees that would consider Welsh players as work collleagues. As in Ireland.

So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:24 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

So if Owens is biased towards Wales - why is he allowed to referee Welsh teams?

In a perfect world he wouldn't be. However he doesn't have a day job working in Wales for the WRU as far as I know. Unlike Fitzgibbon in Ireland.

Can you see the difference?

Welsh refs have held prominent positions for the WRU.

I'll take that as a no.

By the way does the PrO'12 board still consist of 50% Irish members?

It wasn't a question. It's a fact. Check out the WRU site on Welsh refs that have worked for the WRU. I think it was 6, maybe 8. I had it saved on my other laptop, which you broke, and won't search for it just now, but maybe later.

I have looked. I'm struggling to find any Welsh PrO'12 referees that would consider Welsh players as work collleagues. As in Ireland.

But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players. That's just a silly, ill thought out, sound bite that you hopelessly cling to, as evidence that the bogeyman exists.

by **profitius** Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:24 pm

Irish teams are never better. They always cheat and have paid off the referees

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:26 pm

The Welsh refs are smart, I'll give them that. They never sign those mandatory 'Friendship forms' that Notch spoke of a few days ago.

The Irish though - the eejits - signed everything that was put in front of them..

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:27 pm

profitius wrote:Irish teams are never better. They always cheat and have paid off the referees

Precisely. They can't BE better - they're genetically just not good enough so it's gotta be the alternative. Logic says it's cheating and genes confirms the finding.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:42 pm

profitius wrote:Irish teams are never better. They always cheat and have paid off the referees

Pretty sure I read a whole load of 'The better team won' and 'the right outcome of the game', and 'Ulster we deserved winners' comments last week when Ulster beat the Ospreys. And lets be honest it is quite standard on threads where the ref is being questioned for people to still acknowledge that the better side won. To make sweeping generalisations that the Irish are never acknowledged as the better team is as laughable as you say the complaints about the standard of refs is.

by Chunky Norwich Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:46 pm

Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 2:51 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.

Coming from the man who ignores the WRUs dual contracts and is still to tell me how there isn't a bias when Rolland refs France and Walsh with NZ

by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:03 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:09 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.

No, Chunky. I know it's difficult for you to grasp, but your telling porkies isn't proof of anything. There are no 'multiple links' proving that your bogeyman exists in actuality.
The bogeyman does indeed exist. There are countless reports to prove that the bogeyman exists, but he only exists in fiction, and the fertile imagination of those not quite grown up.

by Chunky Norwich Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.
Coming from the man who ignores the WRUs dual contracts and is still to tell me how there isn't a bias when Rolland refs France and Walsh with NZ

Those referees were not employed by France and New Zealand respectively when refereeing them. So I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

As for the dual contracts, what relevance do they have?

In Ireland, the teams are run and owned by the same orgainsation that pays the referees to referee those same teams. This is a fact. One which will just not sink in it appears.

Therefore, there is an element of doubt over whether an official would consciously or subconsciously want part of the organization that pays his wages to fail.

by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

You do know what that payment is for don't you ?

by Chunky Norwich Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:11 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.

No, Chunky. I know it's difficult for you to grasp, but you're telling porkies isn't proof of anything. There are no 'multiple links' proving that your bogeyman exists in actuality.
The bogeyman does indeed exist. There are countless reports to prove that the bogeyman exists, but he only exists in fiction, and the fertile imagination of those not quite grown up.

Do the link(s) provided, prove that the likes of Fitzgibbon are contracted to work by and for the IRFU?

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:14 pm

Last year's record proved to Lord what refs were reffing what games and who was winning and losing under them. The myths persist though, because it's box office. "Even when Irish refs let us win, they do so grudgingly by not allowing us to score even more tries and/or more penalties! - they suppress our free spirit!!! Let us run!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Wink

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:15 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

You do know what that payment is for don't you ?

To influence how they play, when they play and International?

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:16 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.
Coming from the man who ignores the WRUs dual contracts and is still to tell me how there isn't a bias when Rolland refs France and Walsh with NZ

Those referees were not employed by France and New Zealand respectively when refereeing them. So I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

As for the dual contracts, what relevance do they have?

In Ireland, the teams are run and owned by the same orgainsation that pays the referees to referee those same teams. This is a fact. One which will just not sink in it appears.

Therefore, there is an element of doubt over whether an official would consciously or subconsciously want part of the organization that pays his wages to fail.

You seem to think that referees have to employed by the unions for there to be biased, how does refereeing the country of your birth not present a potential bias? Why would they want the country of their birth fail?

Welsh players have 60% of their wages paid for by the WRU and Welsh refs are contracted to the WRU so they are therefore contracted to the same organisation or does that not fit your definition?

by Stone Motif Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:17 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.
Coming from the man who ignores the WRUs dual contracts and is still to tell me how there isn't a bias when Rolland refs France and Walsh with NZ

Those referees were not employed by France and New Zealand respectively when refereeing them. So I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

As for the dual contracts, what relevance do they have?

In Ireland, the teams are run and owned by the same orgainsation that pays the referees to referee those same teams. This is a fact. One which will just not sink in it appears.

Therefore, there is an element of doubt over whether an official would consciously or subconsciously want part of the organization that pays his wages to fail.

6O'6 wrote: It's da bogeyman sorr

by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:Last year's record proved to Lord what refs were reffing what games and who was winning and losing under them. The myths persist though, because it's box office. "Even when Irish refs let us win, they do so grudgingly by not allowing us to score even more tries and/or more penalties! - they suppress our free spirit!!! Let us run!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I do not care who was reffing what, who, where or when. The refereeing in our league is crap and it is turning people away. Add to the crap refereeing we have potential bias and it is no wonder our league is a laughing stock to all those outside of it.

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:19 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.

No, Chunky. I know it's difficult for you to grasp, but you're telling porkies isn't proof of anything. There are no 'multiple links' proving that your bogeyman exists in actuality.
The bogeyman does indeed exist. There are countless reports to prove that the bogeyman exists, but he only exists in fiction, and the fertile imagination of those not quite grown up.

Do the link(s) provided, prove that the likes of Fitzgibbon are contracted to work by and for the IRFU?

He works in a different role and being contracted to do something does not mean they are paid by the IRFU

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

You do know what that payment is for don't you ?

For playing for Wales, ie working for the WRU

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

So then, what evidence?

That's not evidence. It's hearsay and, with all due respect, it's hearsay from a questionable source.

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Last year's record proved to Lord what refs were reffing what games and who was winning and losing under them. The myths persist though, because it's box office. "Even when Irish refs let us win, they do so grudgingly by not allowing us to score even more tries and/or more penalties! - they suppress our free spirit!!! Let us run!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I do not care who was reffing what, who, where or when. The refereeing in our league is crap and it is turning people away. Add to the crap refereeing we have potential bias and it is no wonder our league is a laughing stock to all those outside of it.

Potential Goddamned Bias!

There is no potential. It's there. Bias is there. Welsh refs want regions to win. Irish ones want Provinces to win and Italian ones want Italian sides to win. There is no potential. Quit talking about potential as if some of these refs are machines without emotion. They all have emotion and all ref knowing who they are and where they come from.

Now..................... do they use that bias? Or do they remain ultra professional because they value the 'potential' of their careers (knowing that to be seen to be unbiased is more promising for their careers - affords them the opportunity of bigger and bigger games)

So tell me? Do all refs let their bias guide them in 'choosing' who wins and who loses...OR............. is that just a considered danger with Irish refs?

There is no Potential....only bias itself.

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:28 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
But then there is no Irish refs that are colleagues of any of the Provinces players.

The fact you are still typing this, means that either you have ignored the multiple links to facts that provide evidence against your view, or you are incapable of actually taking on board those facts in the first place.

I think I know which one it is.

No, Chunky. I know it's difficult for you to grasp, but you're telling porkies isn't proof of anything. There are no 'multiple links' proving that your bogeyman exists in actuality.
The bogeyman does indeed exist. There are countless reports to prove that the bogeyman exists, but he only exists in fiction, and the fertile imagination of those not quite grown up.

Do the link(s) provided, prove that the likes of Fitzgibbon are contracted to work by and for the IRFU?

As much as the fact that Welsh refs have worked for the WRU in prominent positions, however, still not evidence of any ref being a colleague of any of the Provinces players, much less any proof of your tin hatted conspiracy of collusion.

by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

You do know what that payment is for don't you ?

For playing for Wales, ie working for the WRU

No it's for the release of the players during international duty, why should the regions pay these players wages when they are playing and making money for team Wales ?

by Sin é Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:36 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

Maybe the Irish provinces try to learn from their mistakes. 2 years ago, the same ref red carded Damian Varley and YCed Tommy O'Donnell and awarded a penalty try in the Ospreys win over Munster (30-15).

Can you explain how an Irish ref would let that happen?

edit: Dudley also disallowed 3 Munster tries v Scarlets another time. Wink

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

You do know what that payment is for don't you ?

For playing for Wales, ie working for the WRU

No it's for the release of the players during international duty, why should the regions pay these players wages when they are playing and making money for team Wales ?

That's not true. The WRU pay the players for playing for the national side, but the WRU also pay the Regions above and beyond that. They always have, and I'm not including the competition monies which include the broadcasting fees that the Regions get most of.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:41 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Last year's record proved to Lord what refs were reffing what games and who was winning and losing under them. The myths persist though, because it's box office. "Even when Irish refs let us win, they do so grudgingly by not allowing us to score even more tries and/or more penalties! - they suppress our free spirit!!! Let us run!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I do not care who was reffing what, who, where or when. The refereeing in our league is crap and it is turning people away. Add to the crap refereeing we have potential bias and it is no wonder our league is a laughing stock to all those outside of it.

Potential Goddamned Bias!

There is no potential. It's there. Bias is there. Welsh refs want regions to win. Irish ones want Provinces to win and Italian ones want Italian sides to win. There is no potential. Quit talking about potential as if some of these refs are machines without emotion. They all have emotion and all ref knowing who they are and where they come from.

Now..................... do they use that bias? Or do they remain ultra professional because they value the 'potential' of their careers (knowing that to be seen to be unbiased is more promising for their careers - affords them the opportunity of bigger and bigger games)

So tell me? Do all refs let their bias guide them in 'choosing' who wins and who loses...OR............. is that just a considered danger with Irish refs?

There is no Potential....only bias itself.

BIAS - Noun
1)inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair.
"there was evidence of bias against black applicants"
2) cause to feel or show inclination or prejudice for or against someone or something.
"a turquoise silk dress cut on the bias"

BIAS - verb
1) cause to feel or show inclination or prejudice for or against someone or something.
"readers said the paper was biased towards the Conservatives"
2) Electronics Term, give a bias to
"bias the valve so that the anode current is normally zero or small"

So there is no evidence of Bias. However there is potential for accusations of Bias.

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:So the WRU paying 60% of a players wages doesn't mean they work for them?

You do know what that payment is for don't you ?

For playing for Wales, ie working for the WRU

No it's for the release of the players during international duty, why should the regions pay these players wages when they are playing and making money for team Wales ?

The WRU already paid the regions before that for the release of players, the dual contracts were so they could pay players more to keep them in Wales

Regardless of why the payments are in place they are still paid by and contracted to the WRU hence the same argument exists regarding the refs and players being contracted to the WRU

I have no issue with it but it seems some on here are ignorant of those facts

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:42 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

Maybe the Irish provinces try to learn from their mistakes. 2 years ago, the same ref red carded Damian Varley and YCed Tommy O'Donnell and awarded a penalty try in the Ospreys win over Munster (30-15).

Can you explain how an Irish ref would let that happen?

edit: Dudley also disallowed 3 Munster tries v Scarlets another time.

Also the ref that presided over their controversial victory at PYS last season.

by Sin é Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:44 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

Maybe the Irish provinces try to learn from their mistakes. 2 years ago, the same ref red carded Damian Varley and YCed Tommy O'Donnell and awarded a penalty try in the Ospreys win over Munster (30-15).

Can you explain how an Irish ref would let that happen?

edit: Dudley also disallowed 3 Munster tries v Scarlets another time.

Also the ref that presided over their controversial victory at PYS last season.

Its only controversial when one of the Welsh Regions lose thumbsup

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:45 pm

Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

Maybe the Irish provinces try to learn from their mistakes. 2 years ago, the same ref red carded Damian Varley and YCed Tommy O'Donnell and awarded a penalty try in the Ospreys win over Munster (30-15).

Can you explain how an Irish ref would let that happen?

edit: Dudley also disallowed 3 Munster tries v Scarlets another time.

Also the ref that presided over their controversial victory at PYS last season.

Its only controversial when one of the Welsh Regions lose

Not at all, wasn't there controversy about Connacht not winning against the Blues last season, or against Glasgow this season?

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:47 pm

Accusations are for Biased Fans.

And they'll eternally claim Bias whether evidence ever exists or not.

Bias though exists. "Cause to FEEL"

Acting on it is the question. Most questions are directed at Irish officials. We can't escape those points....or evade them using semantics.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:48 pm

I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:49 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces.

Maybe the Irish provinces try to learn from their mistakes. 2 years ago, the same ref red carded Damian Varley and YCed Tommy O'Donnell and awarded a penalty try in the Ospreys win over Munster (30-15).

Can you explain how an Irish ref would let that happen?

edit: Dudley also disallowed 3 Munster tries v Scarlets another time.

Leave it to sin to throw in a Shocked

comment.

Hmmmmm........................... let me think about that one for a while and get back to you. Damn those damn records of the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those pesky Records!!

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

Bias exists Wink

Cause to FEEL. Question is do they act on it.

Over to Barnes for his answer Wink

by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

Best ref in the Prem so plenty to complain about!

by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

Best ref in the Prem so plenty to complain about!

Doesn't say much about about the quality of refs in the AP then given that he guesses whats going on at rucks at scrums

by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

Best ref in the Prem so plenty to complain about!

He's a very poor ref, methinks.

by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:55 pm

marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

Best ref in the Prem so plenty to complain about!

Doesn't say much about about the quality of refs in the AP then given that he guesses whats going on at rucks at scrums

That's a bit rich when you look at our refs. At least you know what you are getting with Wayne Barnes.

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:55 pm

Barnes doesn't get half the stick our lads do. He lives a charmed life in comparison to our Refs, touch judges, players, TMOs, sponsors, kit men and mascots Whistle

by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 3:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

Best ref in the Prem so plenty to complain about!

Doesn't say much about about the quality of refs in the AP then given that he guesses whats going on at rucks at scrums

That's a bit rich when you look at our refs. At least you know what you are getting with Wayne Barnes.

Well we usually do anyway Wink

Bless him.

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