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Frampton Quigg - Getting Close?

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Post by Rowley Tue 22 Sep 2015, 4:48 pm

Just saw this on social media so don't shoot the messenger but the Manchester Evening News is reporting the long awaited Frampton Quigg fight could be getting closer to being made. Direct quotes from Hearn in the article and depending on how much you believe the report seems both parties are keen to get this made. Can only hope the report is accurate as for me this is a cracking fight. I know a lot of people really fancy Frampton in this one, but I've always considered it a pick em and still do.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/boxing/scott-quigg-showdown-carl-frampton-10109749

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 22 Sep 2015, 4:56 pm

I have it closer after Frampo's last fight but still 60/40......

I'll pay my 20 notes..

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Post by Nico the gman Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:11 pm

I can't wait for this one, I can't see it disappointing, potential FOTY, I edge towards Frampton, but if Quigg pulled it off no one would be shocked.

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Post by RanjitPatel Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

Initially I thought Quigg would win easily but changed my mind when Frampton upped his level of opposition and looked a class act.

Always thought Frampton outboxes Quigg, too quick and clever. Their last fights have thrown a spanner in the works though but ill just about stick with Frampton but it'll be close.


Last edited by RanjitPatel on Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Quigg's)

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:34 pm

Hearn said it was close to being made but until its signed i won't get excited,
Seems like Frampton signing with Haymon has helped matters

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Post by Rowley Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:39 pm

Can just see the conversation between Frampton and Haymon.

"Al, I've been offered a fight with Quigg, do you think I should take it?"

"How much are they offering you Carl?"

"A million and half quid Al"

"Of course you should f'ing take it!"

Easiest advisory job in the world.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:42 pm

Now Hearn is not dealing with Bazza as much it seems to have cleared things and made it easier to be made

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Post by Rowley Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:45 pm

I had sympathy with Hearn last time round. Seems Barry wanted a co-promotion but was difficult to see what he actually brought to the table. Hearn had the exclusive deal with Box Office, had the stable of fighters to make up the undercard and had recently proven he could successfully promote a stadium fight. What exactly was Barry doing to earn his half of the promotional profits?

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 22 Sep 2015, 5:46 pm

Rowley wrote:I had sympathy with Hearn last time round. Seems Barry wanted a co-promotion but was difficult to see what he actually brought to the table. Hearn had the exclusive deal with Box Office, had the stable of fighters to make up the undercard and had recently proven he could successfully promote a stadium fight. What exactly was Barry doing to earn his half of the promotional profits?

I agree its not often Eddie deserves sympathy but in this case i think he did

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Post by Lance Tue 22 Sep 2015, 7:11 pm

Bit of sympathy for Barry, Frampton is his fighter he has nurtured, but he can't compete with money men like Hearn. A rich man throwing his Dads money about to get what he wants. Why should Barry step aside. It's not like he's kept Frampton in the wilderness. Also a Hearn promotion often leads to at least one very strange scorecard

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Post by AdamT Tue 22 Sep 2015, 7:54 pm

50/50 for me

Always thought Frampton would win. Still think he does if it goes to cards.

However Scott is improving and has good power. Can't wait.

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Post by Lance Tue 22 Sep 2015, 9:13 pm

I think it would be over within 3 rounds. Quigg will go in all guns blazing and turn it into an explosive fight

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Post by milkyboy Tue 22 Sep 2015, 9:32 pm

Everyone got a bit carried away by their last fights in my view.. Frampton tried to do a Tyson on his U.S. Debut and got caught. His lack of head movement was alarming and will give quigg some optimism, but he isn't generally as gung ho as that.

Quigg can bang. He has a puncher's chance. He's not out boxing frampton. It'll be a competitive fight though.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Tue 22 Sep 2015, 10:04 pm

Since Donaire got mentioned Hearn has been even more interested in making the Frampton fight.

Hopefully it comes off, because if Quigg fights Donaire that fight goes up in smoke, if he wins then no way he takes the smaller cut, if he loses (Which he will) then Frampton will move on

It's now or never.

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Post by catchweight Tue 22 Sep 2015, 10:30 pm

Rowley wrote:I had sympathy with Hearn last time round. Seems Barry wanted a co-promotion but was difficult to see what he actually brought to the table. Hearn had the exclusive deal with Box Office, had the stable of fighters to make up the undercard and had recently proven he could successfully promote a stadium fight. What exactly was Barry doing to earn his half of the promotional profits?

I dont think thats quite accurate. McGuigan was supplying the fighter with the bigger fanbase who had successfully sold out venues up to 15 or 20 thousand. Quigg was a guy being used to fill out Matchroom undercards against short notice imports. Had he successfully headlined any sort of big card?

Also,  I dont think Hearn and Matchroom have any exclusive deal with Sky Box Office (Sky are free to show non Matchroom cards and fighters ppv). For a fight that was going to be ppv, its par for the course that Framptons team would want to be involved in co-promoting the event. Anything less would be crazy.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 22 Sep 2015, 11:05 pm

Matchroom have exclusive rights to boxing on Sky Box Office as well as Sky Sports.

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Post by Lance Tue 22 Sep 2015, 11:20 pm

No. Mayweather and Klitschko both on box office

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Post by wheelchair1991 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 7:32 am

Yeah Hearn can give his dates up just like he did for Sayerland with Groves v Rabrasse on Sky Sports but he still has the final say

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Post by Derbymanc Wed 23 Sep 2015, 8:32 am

Hearn is the devil Wheely, the church of Strongy is alive and well Smile (Just kidding lads)

Hopefully this get made now with no more messing, still think Framps was stupid to turn down 1.5 mil but can understand why Bazza wanted his name on the promotion (don't forget Eddie did offer to do this too).

That's in the past now. still don't think this will happen quite yet unless it's for stupid money (ala 1.5mil) as either camp will be thinking they're finished if they lose (we know how fickle fans can be.)

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 8:50 am

Such factors as Frampton’s popularity and status in the game are red herrings. These are covered by a fighters purse, and if the reports are correct Hearn has offered a purse that reflects these, certainly inflated for what a fighter in that weight would normally expect. Let’s not forget either Barry will get a percentage of these. The promotion relates to the staging, selling and marketing of the fight. In this respect it is reasonable to ask what value Barry actually brings or what he offers that Hearn does not already have. Hearn has proven he can promote stadium fights without any issues and has the ongoing relationship with Sky Box Office, which is the only logical home for this fight. Does Barry add enough value from the promotional side to justify him getting paid for this side as well. Think if some people take off the blinkers that force them to portray Hearn as the anti Christ in all matters the honest answer is no he doesn’t.

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Post by catchweight Wed 23 Sep 2015, 9:14 am

That makes no sense. Mcguigan is supplying the fighter with the proven fanbase and ticket seller. Of course he is adding something to the fight. Can you imagine sauerland, k2, haymon etc accepting being cut out of a promotion on the basis that sky are showing it on ppv. Never going to happen. This stuff about hearn being the devil etc is just hyberbole nonsense.

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 9:16 am

And as I said his purse reflects that. What value in terms of the promotion of the fight does he bring? The examples you have given all bring markets in their home country. As Sky operate in Ireland am still struggling to see what value Barry is adding to the promotion.

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Post by catchweight Wed 23 Sep 2015, 9:33 am

This is business man. The fight wont happen unless you cut in the promter of the other fighter. Frampton is the guy thats shifting tickets and doing higher ratings, not quigg. Cutting framptons team into the promotion is a must to make this ppv happen.

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 9:35 am

So Barry is basically mugging him. Hardly bespeaks of a man acting in the best interests of his fighter. Frampton does not profit from it being a co-promotion, he gets paid the same irrespective.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 9:50 am

catchweight wrote:
Rowley wrote:I had sympathy with Hearn last time round. Seems Barry wanted a co-promotion but was difficult to see what he actually brought to the table. Hearn had the exclusive deal with Box Office, had the stable of fighters to make up the undercard and had recently proven he could successfully promote a stadium fight. What exactly was Barry doing to earn his half of the promotional profits?

I dont think thats quite accurate. McGuigan was supplying the fighter with the bigger fanbase who had successfully sold out venues up to 15 or 20 thousand. Quigg was a guy being used to fill out Matchroom undercards against short notice imports. Had he successfully headlined any sort of big card?


But that's relevant to why Frampton should get the bigger (or at least equal) purse, not why Bazza should get a slab of the promotional profits. He's asking for money for nothing.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:20 am

It's about how the pie gets carved up surely. Barry promotes his fighter and then when the big pay day for his fighter comes he's expected to just take his management cut of the purse and hand over the promotion.

Sure he adds nothing to the promotion as sky/ppv is where the money is, but then there's no money for Eddie without Barry's fighter.

This is what it's all about really, Eddie makes a huge purse offer to frampton and no promotional offer to Barry. You can make a case that he's stirring some disrest in their camp. There's also some willy waving going on.

In the real business world, as a minimum you offer compensation for loss of earnings to sweeten the deal. Given it could go to itv with Barry promoting, I don't think it's unreasonable for barry to say 'We go your ppv route Eddie as it makes the most money but you have to cut me in.'

Call it a co- promotion so there's no loss of face, give Barry 25% and his fighter the lion's share of the purse.

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Post by AdamT Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:21 am

This fight NEEDS to happen.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:26 am

milkyboy wrote:
Call it a co- promotion so there's no loss of face, give Barry 25% and his fighter the lion's share of the purse.

I thoght it was established that Cyclone was offered some kind of co-promotion?

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Post by catchweight Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:34 am

You have no idea what frampton gets paid. He could easily earn more from his team getting a higher share due to co promotion. Ive no idea how anyone could genuinely argue that framptons team not being made part of the co promotion is ever going to fly. The fight will never get off the ground without this. I assume it will happen and when it does theres not a chance framptons team wont be involved in the promotion. Of course mcguigan is going to want to be involved in the promotion of his fighters biggest fight. That goes for any promoter.

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Post by catchweight Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:35 am

You have no idea what frampton gets paid. He could easily earn more from his team getting a higher share due to co promotion. Ive no idea how anyone could genuinely argue that framptons team not being made part of the co promotion is ever going to fly. The fight will never get off the ground without this. I assume it will happen and when it does theres not a chance framptons team wont be involved in the promotion. Of course mcguigan is going to want to be involved in the promotion of his fighters biggest fight. That goes for any promoter.

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Post by shenglong2015 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:35 am

Does anyone else think home advantage is really important in this one, as the fight is relatively close and could end up on points?

I also feel both camps know that home advantage is key, and this is why it has stuck so often.

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Post by rodders Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

Hope I'm wrong but sounds like Frampton/Cyclone realizes conquering the states will be harder than they expected and are cashing in the chips a bit.

If so will give Quigg a bit of a psychological edge.

Great to see this go ahead though as there are a lot of garbage can fights going on and this is a real contest between 2 good fighters in their peaks.
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Post by milkyboy Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:46 am

The Toppy,

Thought you boys were saying he deserves nothing? I don't know what the deal offered was, I just remember Eddie pulling a stunt waving a cheque around which isn't how you do business in my book. 

I don't have sides in this. I don't know who was being too greedy. I just think it's reasonable for Barry to take a cut of the promotion as compensation even if he doesn't do anything for it. 

Let's not pretend that eddies balls will be nailed to his desk for 3  months. He might sell some strawberries in Bury as a stunt but everything else is outsourced. He's leveraging money out of his sky deal that's all. 

If he has other huge fights lined up he can play hardball, if he doesn't he might be advised to give a few quid up to make a few. If the fight is close and he hasn't waved any cheques around maybe that's what's happened.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:24 am

Hearn is the one talking about making offers, give them (Frampton) the percentage if he is that desperate to make the fight as he claims.

If he isn't then he should move on from it and quit the man sausage teasing. Goes on about how McGuigan believes Frampton can't win attempting to bait them into taking less that they believe they are worth.

You're talking about a couple of percent, it might be £150,000 not much considering, but is Hearn going to bow down to their demands for getting some of their fighters on the bill?

Never mind, we can forget about it. Quigg will fight his mandatory, we will then get spun some yarn again about Scott Quigg fighting some top names, Frampton & Donaire will be brought up again, a potential move to 126lbs with a few name drops for Santa Cruz and maybe Mares for good measure, fights won't get made, Hearn will recycling the word that "no one wants to fight Scott Quigg", this will be then be bandied about from Daddy on whatever outlet he goes on to spout his Poopie, questions over fighting Rigondeaux will be quickly swept under the carpet with the usual "he's not a draw" in the meantime knowing a move up to 126lbs isn't really possible considering the champions in that division would wipe their farter with Quigg, people will be up in arms, forums and Twitter will go into meltdown, Eddie Hearn haters will slaughter the guy, posters will attempt to put up a predictable defence of Hearn citing figures, facts, quotes, real or otherwise, to make a point...and then you know what? We might all sit back and say to ourselves "Frak me, we've been here before!"

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:30 am

milkyboy wrote:I just think it's reasonable for Barry to take a cut of the promotion as compensation even if he doesn't do anything for it. 
If I'm honest I probably do Milky, but as it was my thread I thought I'd stir the pot. You know how needy I am when it comes to number of responses.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:56 am

The day the burley thread stuck on 9 posts, (several of those commenting on the number of posts) and you responded with the 'Lewis the greatest heavyweight' thread, is the day this forum died rowley.

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:59 am

I still feel a bit bad for the Lewis thread Milky, was the most shameless piece of populism. Was nearly as bad as the time I wrote the series on the greatest fighters not to win titles about a week before the annual awards. Would not have been so bad but Chris still beat me to best series. I can't even do blatant populism well.

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Post by hazharrison Wed 23 Sep 2015, 12:47 pm

Rowley wrote:Such factors as Frampton’s popularity and status in the game are red herrings. These are covered by a fighters purse, and if the reports are correct Hearn has offered a purse that reflects these, certainly inflated for what a fighter in that weight would normally expect. Let’s not forget either Barry will get a percentage of these. The promotion relates to the staging, selling and marketing of the fight. In this respect it is reasonable to ask what value Barry actually brings or what he offers that Hearn does not already have. Hearn has proven he can promote stadium fights without any issues and has the ongoing relationship with Sky Box Office, which is the only logical home for this fight. Does Barry add enough value from the promotional side to justify him getting paid for this side as well. Think if some people take off the blinkers that force them to portray Hearn as the anti Christ in all matters the honest answer is no he doesn’t.

While the purse was certainly a handsome one - it was fixed, whereas Quigg would likely have made far in excess of that from his cut plus PPV receipts. Why would Frampton - as the world title holder and bigger draw - settle for that? In addition, why would McGuigan settle for a cut of that while Matchroom potentially walk off with an amount far in excess of £1.5m (PPV targets were in the region of £10-12m)?

Regarding co-promotion: which of the fighters has been better promoted to date? McGuigan has promoted Frampton before sell-out crowds in Belfast (16k against Martinez) and guided him to a world title. He also negotiated a deal with ITV that brought Frampton far more exposure than he'd have received fighting on Sky. Quigg meanwhile holds an interim belt and has struggled to attract anywhere near the same exposure.

While Hearn can obviously promote an event of this magnitude, Frampton's interests would be far better represented if the fight was co-promoted.


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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:06 pm

Having an ITV deal is all well and good but in practical terms has little impact on this fight, because the fight sure as hell ending up on ITV. only Sky Box Office pays everyone what they expect. I have no horse in this race, I just want to see the fight made, and hope everyone can compromise a bit to ensure that happens. I was just expressing some understanding of Hearn's position. The situation is if the fighters agree to the fight Hearn can make this and pay everyone a lot of money without Barry, the same is not true in reverse.

If you want to say Hearn is holding Barry hostage through his Sky Box Office deal I would not argue particularly, but I struggle to see that anyone would do differently in this situation. Was Quigg promoted by a fighter without a decent TV deal such as Hobson would Barry be so quick to offer him a co-promotion knowing the fight was going to ITV?

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Post by hazharrison Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:23 pm

Rowley wrote:Having an ITV deal is all well and good but in practical terms has little impact on this fight, because the fight sure as hell ending up on ITV. only Sky Box Office pays everyone what they expect. I have no horse in this race, I just want to see the fight made, and hope everyone can compromise a bit to ensure that happens. I was just expressing some understanding of Hearn's position. The situation is if the fighters agree to the fight Hearn can make this and pay everyone a lot of money without Barry, the same is not true in reverse.

If you want to say Hearn is holding Barry hostage through his Sky Box Office deal I would not argue particularly, but I struggle to see that anyone would do differently in this situation. Was Quigg promoted by a fighter without a decent TV deal such as Hobson would Barry be so quick to offer him a co-promotion knowing the fight was going to ITV?

I'm not convinced McGuigan looks at promoting Frampton with the same accountant's mindest Hearn promotes his stable with. McGuigan negotiated the ITV deal for less money than he'd have made signing Frampton over to Sky. He has been playing the long game with Frampton and I think the way McGuigan's moved him has been top notch.

I thought the public offer from Hearn was shady - you'd have to be a mug to snatch at the £1.5m fee while Quigg and Matchroom walk off with far in excess of that. Hopefully now, with their options narrowing (neither even mention Rigondeaux these days) they'll now reach a compromise.

Sky Box Office is the vehicle for producing the fight's revenue but Frampton is integral to the buy-rate projections they were aiming for. I'm not sure Quigg generates even half of what he will against Frampton against any other fighter at 122.

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:28 pm

I agree with much of what you say Haz. As I mentioned earlier I was to a large extent playing devils advocate. Think both are realising they need to get this made. Frampton and Quigg as fighters will have looked at their last pay cheque for their last assignment and realised there is a nought missing on what they would get for fighting each other. With LSC looking at leaving the division that only really leaves Rigo, and given he can barely draw flies who wants to earn less and either lose or look god awful in the process of winning.

Still don't think a co-promotion on 50-50 terms is reflective of what each promoter brings to the table, but would like to think Hearn can come up with a sensible number, be that to massage Barry's ego or allow him to feather his nest matters little to me.

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Post by hazharrison Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:33 pm

Rowley wrote:I agree with much of what you say Haz. As I mentioned earlier I was to a large extent playing devils advocate. Think both are realising they need to get this made. Frampton and Quigg as fighters will have looked at their last pay cheque for their last assignment and realised there is a nought missing on what they would get for fighting each other. With LSC looking at leaving the division that only really leaves Rigo, and given he can barely draw flies who wants to earn less and either lose or look god awful in the process of winning.

Still don't think a co-promotion on 50-50 terms is reflective of what each promoter brings to the table, but would like to think Hearn can come up with a sensible number, be that to massage Barry's ego or allow him to feather his nest matters little to me.

It's heartening that Cyclone now appear determined to get the deal signed - I can see that happening. It's exactly what we need in Britain. There are a lot of world titlists knocking about but this would put a rocket under the domestic scene.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:43 pm

The IBF haved comfirmed that this will not be a unification fight as they don't recognise Quigg's 'belt' as a legit World Title.

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:46 pm

Just when you think a great fight is close you can always rely on a governing body to try and scupper it!

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Post by hazharrison Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:47 pm

That shouldn't be a factor - to be fair, McGuigan/Frampton have stated this all along.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 7:01 pm

Didnt the IBF allow froch to have their strap and the 'regular' WBA strap?

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Post by hazharrison Thu 24 Sep 2015, 3:05 pm

Looks like the IBF are insisting Frampton face Shingo Wake next. Quigg will probably face McDonnell.

Crap, really.

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Post by shenglong2015 Thu 24 Sep 2015, 3:14 pm

If that happens Haz, you could argue that Quigg is in the harder fight (which pains me to say as a Belfast man)

Frampton better not end up one of those champs that "never fought the best"..... *sigh*

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Post by milkyboy Thu 24 Sep 2015, 4:27 pm

hazharrison wrote:Looks like the IBF are insisting Frampton face Shingo Wake next. Quigg will probably face McDonnell.

Crap, really.

Crap for quigg when McDonnell beats him

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Post by Lance Thu 24 Sep 2015, 4:29 pm

McDonnell has earned that fight no complaints there. Frampton is going backwards a bit

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