Big Daddy Browne Tests Positive For Banned Substance

Shame this as it was a nice success story. Browne Tests Positive for Clenbuterol with his sample after the Chagaev fight. Wouldn't like this to be true but at least he is caught.

Also it's not really as much a surprise he has been caught as they used VADA testing in this fight. Which I think should test everyone in boxing, (per Dan Rafs Twitter)

An asthma drug?

So does the fight get changed to a no contest? And Chagaev keep his strap?

jimdig wrote:An asthma drug?

Its good for burning fat and apparently can be used as a masking agent.

Yeah an illegal masking agent to mask something illegal, like taking coke to mask heroin.

3fingers wrote:Yeah an illegal masking agent to mask something illegal, like taking coke to mask heroin.

This is what I don't understand when people say "masking drugs" albeit I don't have a great understanding of PEDs and stuff. Though I'm sure someone could educate me.

Oh, and the WBA have just announced Browne as the fighter of the month, slightly badly timed....

3fingers wrote:Yeah an illegal masking agent to mask something illegal, like taking coke to mask heroin.

Well I have actually read this and it also came up when Contador tested positive for it a few years ago, he blamed contaminated meat as animals reared for meat are sometimes given a liquid version of it. Apparently the levels can drop quite quick so there is a smaller window for people testing positive for it. Also when prescribed by a doctor it isn't illegal in some countries, but any athlete that goes down this route must let the SAC's, governing bodies etc aware that they are using before they are tested or entering a competition.

As for taking coke to mask heroin there is a possibility that it could work, cocaine metabolises things very quickly, thats why you can drink large amounts of alcohol without really being drunk. Also cocaine is out of the system within 48 hours again giving a small window for testing positive.

Give it a few weeks and the WBA will probably reinstate him as their "Interim Champion in recess who has just had a new kitchen". They don't seem to mind having drug cheat Ortiz as a champion of sorts.

I am beginning to wonder what Chagaev has on the WBA he sems to have been champion so many times.

Big Daddy Browne just had a Big positive Test.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

3fingers wrote:Yeah an illegal masking agent to mask something illegal, like taking coke to mask heroin.

This is what I don't understand when people say "masking drugs" albeit I don't have a great understanding of PEDs and stuff. Though I'm sure someone could educate me.

diuretics are one example of a masking agent. They are also illegal though. An athlete can have a testosterone, epitestosterone level of 4:1. (used to be 6:1) Basically an athlete can use a high dose of Testosterone, as long as they can have the epitestosterone as high to match.

Seemingly another way to cheat, is use an illegal iv drip, to clear the body of any banned substances.

A lot of wee rascals around these days!!

Shame if it's true. Whilst you have to hold athletes to account, so I've no issue with banning people for traces of masking agent in their sample. Sad thing is, some of the masking agents are common so it is possible to take them unknowingly. But, if the governing bodies are to eliminate drug taking they have to take a tough stance.

And Alex, there are a number of ways one drug can mask another. It could metabolise the banned drug quicker. But most likely, it just helps give a'false'reading during analysis. So, if the masking agent reacts with the banned drug to make another compound that isn't detected or the legit drug gives a similar or stronger test result, making it unsure if they have taken a banned drug or not.

Seem to remember somebody joking that if Enzo beat RJJ he would end up with a positive test. Not the first time a previous clean athlete tested positive following a win in Russia against a home favourite.

Not usual one for conspiracy theories but given Russia's history of dodgy drug testing I can't help but think Browne may actually be telling the truth.

The fact that this isn't just Russia, this is Chechnya.

Was worrying just how close to the proceedings and Chagaev himself the Chechen president seemed to be.

Chagaev is obviously a big deal to their country (or whatever it's classed as) and when sporting issues become as political as this, it's always worrying when things like this happen.

Im not sure which would surprise me less. Browne being a genuine positive test or this positive test being the result of a plant.

Clen' is a cutting agent used by BB's. Browne looked more ripped than normal. Guilty.

Clen is supposed to increases aerobic capacity (?). I didn't see the fight I'm so not sure if he appeared fitter than previous outings.

Browne looked pretty svelte in the fight, I thought. no evidence of a failed test I suppose, but there is evidence of a failed test. I'm rather surprised at how many people who believe sport is rotten to the core with dopers suddenly empathise with a "I'm so confused. I'm seeking legal advice" tweet

Clenbuuterol could get into an athlete's body unknowingly in two ways:
1 - Eating contaminated food. In particular, beef reared in China and Mexico. This was the defence Contador put up for his positive test, but that was rejected in his case (because there was no link to any food produced in countries that use Clenbuterol on animals), but which has been successful in some other cases (another cyclist, Mick Rogers, returned a positive Clenbuterol test at a race in Japan a week after taking part in a race in China, and was acquitted on the grounds that it was entirely unintentional).

2 - Contamination of some supplements (creatine etc). Of course you would have to be careless to not use a WADA-approved supplement, but this seems a likely cause. This is not considered entirely unintentional under WADA guidelines (you need to eat, you do not need to take a supplement), and so in a sport governed under WADA rules a positive test is logged and with some sanction imposed.

In the Contador case there was actually a third option speculated on, which was that the Clen positive was a result of blood doping, specifically that he had re-injected blood that had been taken soon after he had also taken Clenbuterol. The (extraordinarily) low levels of Clen detected in his samples were consistent with this, although the sanction was based on him likely having taken a contaminated supplement. This is less likely in Browne's case, as he wouldn't gain significant benefit from Clenbuterol (taken as a PED for fat and so weight loss - not that relevant to a 115 kg heavyweight boxer, very relevant to a 60 kg road cyclist).

I've always wondered about asthma medications being used by atheletes. Something ridicules like 1/3rd of tour de France cyclists are registered asthmatics.
I always assumed that they, and the majority of other professional atheletes posing as asthmatics are doing so to avail of the medications which keep the airways open as it's advantageous in endurance sports.

I had a 5 fight accumulator that got stuffed because Browne one. If this is changed to a NC, does anyone know if the bookies have to pay out on the remaining 4 fights???

kingraf wrote:Browne looked pretty svelte in the fight, I thought. no evidence of a failed test I suppose, but there is evidence of a failed test. I'm rather surprised at how many people who believe sport is rotten to the core with dopers suddenly empathise with a "I'm so confused. I'm seeking legal advice" tweet

I wouldn't really say empathising with a tweet. More the fact of where it was, previous history and the circumstances surrounding the fight. Given it was Browne who really pushed for the increased testing also.

I'm not particularly a fan of either, but it seems all to often that a fighter wins away in Russia and suddenly tests positive.

dummy_half wrote:Clenbuuterol could get into an athlete's body unknowingly in two ways:
1 - Eating contaminated food. In particular, beef reared in China and Mexico. This was the defence Contador put up for his positive test, but that was rejected in his case (because there was no link to any food produced in countries that use Clenbuterol on animals), but which has been successful in some other cases (another cyclist, Mick Rogers, returned a positive Clenbuterol test at a race in Japan a week after taking part in a race in China, and was acquitted on the grounds that it was entirely unintentional).

2 - Contamination of some supplements (creatine etc). Of course you would have to be careless to not use a WADA-approved supplement, but this seems a likely cause. This is not considered entirely unintentional under WADA guidelines (you need to eat, you do not need to take a supplement), and so in a sport governed under WADA rules a positive test is logged and with some sanction imposed.

In the Contador case there was actually a third option speculated on, which was that the Clen positive was a result of blood doping, specifically that he had re-injected blood that had been taken soon after he had also taken Clenbuterol. The (extraordinarily) low levels of Clen detected in his samples were consistent with this, although the sanction was based on him likely having taken a contaminated supplement. This is less likely in Browne's case, as he wouldn't gain significant benefit from Clenbuterol (taken as a PED for fat and so weight loss - not that relevant to a 115 kg heavyweight boxer, very relevant to a 60 kg road cyclist).

The fact that he weighs 115 kg would make it beneficial to use Clenbuterol as it can increase aerobic capacity as well as help with weight loss. More beneficial than creatine, whey protein or any other legal supplement, its why PED's or prescription drugs to enhance performance are banned, they work!

Its an odd situation as he arrived in Russia and was tested (random test) which showed he was clean when arriving in Russia.

The fight was 6 days later I believe and he tested positive, for such an odd substance. As said above, he was the one who pushed for improved drug testing.

Trust the Ruskies about as far as I could throw them, should just be banned from all international sporting competition.

Browne & Hatton Promotions have released his VADA testing details, almost certainly comfirming Ruskie foul play.

The day after he arrived in Russia, 5 or 6 days pre-fight, VADA pulled him for a random bloody & urine test. The results of which showed that he arrived 100% clean.

Between then and post-fight, which was only a urine test not blood, he somehow got clen into his system, a drug with (as far as I can see) zero practical benefit/advantage if taken only the last couple of days before a fight. He has no reason to shred (and looked in great nick well before fight night, all through training camp) so it shouldn't be for that and what kind of miracle drug can be worth taking/masking that'll make a significant difference in 72 hours??!

Makes absolutely no sense at all. Tyson Fury has been speaking out on it about spiked water, reminding how he refused to take on any water post Klit fight until he was back in the UK as he was convinced they'd conspire to cheat him out of his win with a miraculous failed doping test.

Something very odd about this. You'd think if you were a drugs cheat, the last thing you'd do is push for stringent testing. It doesn't add up.

Kareem61 wrote:Something very odd about this. You'd think if you were a drugs cheat, the last thing you'd do is push for stringent testing. It doesn't add up.

Unless your name is Andre Berto! At least they're not coming up with it was in an over the counter supplement or in meat that I had eat. Interesting comments from Tyson Fury, I hadn't been aware of this before.

Yeh, Tyson banged on a lot about it at the time of the fight (i.e. he's not just saying it to be controversail now). Said dehydration was klilling him and random people from Team K, Suaerland, various others etc kept on trying to hand him bottled water to drink but he refused.

Browne/Hatton saying that they were clean on arrival (as proven) and only ate food provided by the hotel they were hosted in and drank only 'sealed bottled water' that was provided.

Just watched an interview with him last night on youtube talking about it and Brownes situation, seemed genuine.

He does, but mock outrage/shock/incredulity is seemingly also a trait in drug cheats.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, Tyson banged on a lot about it at the time of the fight (i.e. he's not just saying it to be controversail now). Said dehydration was klilling him and random people from Team K, Suaerland, various others etc kept on trying to hand him bottled water to drink but he refused.  

Browne/Hatton saying that they were clean on arrival (as proven) and only ate food provided by the hotel they were hosted in and drank only 'sealed bottled water' that was provided.

Fury was dehydrated? Any reason for a heavyweight to be cutting weight for a weigh-in... Or being unable to send someone to a shop for bottled water?

milkyboy wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, Tyson banged on a lot about it at the time of the fight (i.e. he's not just saying it to be controversail now). Said dehydration was klilling him and random people from Team K, Suaerland, various others etc kept on trying to hand him bottled water to drink but he refused.  

Browne/Hatton saying that they were clean on arrival (as proven) and only ate food provided by the hotel they were hosted in and drank only 'sealed bottled water' that was provided.

Fury was dehydrated? Any reason for a heavyweight to be cutting weight for a weigh-in... Or being unable to send someone to a shop for bottled water?

I got the impression this was after the fight not for the weigh in, but you'd imagine his team would've had a supply of bottled water close at hand.

milkyboy wrote:He does, but mock outrage/shock/incredulity is seemingly also a trait in drug cheats.

I was referring to Fury and that he genuinely felt worried by team Klitscko if he got the win and that Browne's situation seemed to confirm his suspicions , after all Fury didn't fail a drugs test after his win.

Nobody ever cheats, but there's a hell of a lot more contaminated water/meat than I was aware of.

Surprised the general public isn't fitter with the amount of PEDs in food.

sohotnot wrote:

milkyboy wrote:He does, but mock outrage/shock/incredulity is seemingly also a trait in drug cheats.

I was referring to Fury and that he genuinely felt worried by team Klitscko if he got the win and that Browne's situation seemed to confirm his suspicions  , after all Fury didn't fail a drugs test after his win.

Ahh fair enough.

Re Browne, always seemed like an affable character... But then he also looked a bit more ripped than usual. I imagine he'd say he trained harder for his big chance.

milkyboy wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, Tyson banged on a lot about it at the time of the fight (i.e. he's not just saying it to be controversail now). Said dehydration was klilling him and random people from Team K, Suaerland, various others etc kept on trying to hand him bottled water to drink but he refused.  

Browne/Hatton saying that they were clean on arrival (as proven) and only ate food provided by the hotel they were hosted in and drank only 'sealed bottled water' that was provided.

Fury was dehydrated? Any reason for a heavyweight to be cutting weight for a weigh-in... Or being unable to send someone to a shop for bottled water?

He was talking about POST fight. I.e. after 12 rounds of sweating his nuts off he was quite parched and fancied a drink. Wouldn't be surprised if he stretched the truth re not drinking till back in England (depending on how long he spent in Germany post fight) but the focus of his point was refusing water that was offered him.

milkyboy wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

milkyboy wrote:He does, but mock outrage/shock/incredulity is seemingly also a trait in drug cheats.

I was referring to Fury and that he genuinely felt worried by team Klitscko if he got the win and that Browne's situation seemed to confirm his suspicions  , after all Fury didn't fail a drugs test after his win.

Ahh fair enough.

Re Browne, always seemed like an affable character... But then he also looked a bit more ripped than usual. I imagine he'd say he trained harder for his big chance.

If you follow him on Twitter/IG you'll see he posts regularly and had shared shots from throughout his training. If he was taking anything to 'assist' him, it was throughout camp not in the last few days as he looked in great shape throughout - and therefore would have been shown in his earlier VADA blood & urine test.

TopHat24/7 wrote:If you follow him on Twitter/IG you'll see he posts regularly and had shared shots from throughout his training. If he was taking anything to 'assist' him, it was throughout camp not in the last few days as he looked in great shape throughout - and therefore would have been shown in his earlier VADA blood & urine test.

Not necessarily. Plenty of athletes can get through tests, perhaps he just made a mistake before the final one and was at the wrong part of a cycle or something.

Doesn't say much for VADA if so.....

Interesting how Kid Galahad was laughed out of town for insisting he was spiked. The response to Browne's claim has been quite the opposite.

Is it cos he is black you reckon den?

Kid's came out of nowhere, had no supporting evidence and no logic or reason.

Hardly equivalent.

I struggle to believe someone's own brother would spike him, but then again you do get a lot of "Jeremy Kyle" Muppet types.

I also struggle with Galahad's explanation - as I do Browne's. At least KG managed to get his brother to sign an avadavit admitting guilt.

Dave: not a race thing - more a "good bloke" thing. Same thing happened with Mosley (who was generally forgiven due to being a nice guy).

hazharrison wrote:I also struggle with Galahad's explanation - as I do Browne's. At least KG managed to get his brother to sign an avadavit admitting guilt.

Dave: not a race thing - more a "good bloke" thing. Same thing happened with Mosley (who was generally forgiven due to being a nice guy).

Just says guilty doesn't it, had it been viagra, ecstacy or laxative then yeah ok, it happens.

What is Browne now saying, that he was spiked in the water he drank?

He's saying he was proven clean on arrival in Russia (or wherever) and that despite there being no performance enhancing drug he could've taken that'd be beneficial 2-3 days before a bout, he suddenly & mysteriously failed a test after beating the local champ.

TopHat24/7 wrote:He's saying he was proven clean on arrival in Russia (or wherever) and that despite there being no performance enhancing drug he could've taken that'd be beneficial 2-3 days before a bout, he suddenly & mysteriously failed a test after beating the local champ.

I'm sure VADA can figure out whether that was the case?

Should this prove to be the case then what needs to happen is that an independent drugs body needs to be responsible for provide all the equipment in the corners (water, Vaseline, coagulents etc to ensure they are clean). They should limit the number of people escorting a fighter to the ring to three (trainer, second and cut man) and those three should be thoroughly checked beforehand to ensure they are not in possession of anything that could be given to the fighter mid-bout.