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Kell Brook - Where Next?

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Post by Rowley Wed 23 Mar 2016, 1:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

A lot of rumours doing the rounds today that Kell Brook has been offered a fight with Miguel Cotto this summer, subject to him coming through against Bizier this weekend, and let’s face it most on here assume he will do that without too much trouble. I am never particularly sure what to make of such rumours. The cynic in me is always a little wary of announcements of decent sounding match ups in the run up to underwhelming defences, can’t help but feel they are a convenient and easy way of distracting attention from a run of poor opponents or the like. Hell, if I’d have had a pound every time Calzaghe was linked with Jones or Hopkins during his super middle days I suspect I’d have made more from his career than he did.

However, if only to stimulate some debate about one of the more high profile British fighters who is in action this weekend and to prove I can do modern populism (or shamelessly currying responses as I am sure Milky will rightly accuse me of) I wondered what folk make of a potential fight with Cotto, or if it is not Cotto then who? Khan, for the immediate future seems dead in the water currently. If he loses to Canelo one would have to think he will be rebuilding and if he wins I am not sure the fight is particularly easy to make. Khan is rightly or wrongly accused of having an inflated opinion of his own worth, struggle to imagine a win over Alvarez will do too much to alleviate this as an obstacle to getting the fight made.

Other than this who would we be happy with? Manny maintains Bradley will be his last fight, if Bradley loses he may, like Khan, be looking to rebuild. Thurman appears to be in limbo after his postponement against Porter. Not too sure of Garcia’s plans, but it could be a case that a move up or a catchweight fight against Cotto could be the best of the available options. What I suspect we all agree on is post Bizier there can be no more excuses or inconvenient, absolutely unavoidable mandatory challengers it needs to be a named opponent of decent quality. What do others see as being his next step, be it a realistic one or your personal choice?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:48 am

I doubt the IBF would allow any such thing when an American is the mandatory challenger.

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Post by Rowley Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:53 am

Brook needs to fight Spence if he to retain any credibility. When you have fought two poor mandatories and hid behind the excuse they are unavoidable and the governing body forced your hand, to move up or vacate when it is a proper fighter will destroy his reputation as fans will not interpret the actions kindly.

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Post by catchweight Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:54 am

Stopping Algieri in 5 is a real statement. He has been the distance with Provodnikov, Khan and Pacquiao and has been a slightly underrated fighter.

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Post by AdamT Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:02 am

Apparently Spence did fantastic in sparring against Floyd. I know sparring isn't a real fight, but Floyd really rates him. Can't remember if it was Khan, but Floyd says if he can beat Spence first, then he would fight him after.

I have only seen a couple of Spence fights, but he looks good. Another great addition to the 147 division. He might prove to be the best of the lot soon.


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Post by mobilemaster8 Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:42 am

Last night was a brilliant performance. Remember mentioning over a year ago on a prospect topic about Spence. He had sharp fast combinations, good footwork, brilliant speed and showed some cracking power. Think In post fight Spence mentioned he was mandatory for Brook?! That's some fight if it comes off (get the cash out Eddie!!). Algieri after stated that Spence is the best he has ever faced and thinks he is a p4p fighter.

Some compliment after having too Pacman Khan and Prov the distance!!

Exciting times at WW. No wonder Thurman kept palming him off!

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Post by AdamT Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:44 am

Brook does everything right and he is strong at the weight. However from what I have seen, Spence looks faster and has more skills. Spence also has better ko ratio.

I think Spence would beat every WW out there. Lets hope he gets the fights and isn't avoided like the plague.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 17 Apr 2016, 1:01 pm

Spencer is Brooks mandatory right?

He looks the real deal although last night's performance he didn't respect Algieris power so just walked him down and let his fists fly

147 is heating up nicely

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Post by Dipper Brown Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:06 pm

If you're a Brook fan, you'd be hoping a Spence fight could turn into a Lacy Calzaghe situation. Champion with doubts over the quality he's faced vs the next big American hope. Champion wins and finally leaps up the food chain.

Unfortunately for Kell, I think Spence is the real deal. Hope the fight gets made.

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Post by jimdig Sun 17 Apr 2016, 7:20 pm

I think Spence is the real deal too. I rate brook too, I think it'll be a hell of a fight between him and Spense. The problem is that from a match making perspective (porter fight aside) Eddie has shown no faith in Brook, he turns 30 next month; he's probably past his prime already. Spense has been talking up getting into mandatory status prior to his last fight too. He's and his team have been targeting brook a while now. Eddie better make the fight, if he takes it from me, ill make it my target to turd in his cornflakes.

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Post by jimdig Sun 17 Apr 2016, 7:22 pm

Only joking Eddie, your cornflakes are safe.

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Post by catchweight Sun 17 Apr 2016, 7:36 pm

The sooner Brook can get Spence the better from his perspective. Spence is a super talent but still relatively inexperienced. Its a fight that will only get harder for Brook. I have a feeling this is a mandatory that wont prove as urgent as Dan and Bizier though.

Bradley should 100% be an option now for Brook. He is willing to travel, up for fighting anyone and would probably relish an immediate world title shot without having to step down a level. From Matchrooms perspective its a great time to get Bradley now as well as he is starting to fade and has been through a challenging career at the highest level compared to Brook who is has had very few tough fights.

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Post by Dipper Brown Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:09 pm

catchweight wrote:The sooner Brook can get Spence the better from his perspective. Spence is a super talent but still relatively inexperienced. Its a fight that will only get harder for Brook. I have a feeling this is a mandatory that wont prove as urgent as Dan and Bizier though.

Bradley should 100% be an option now for Brook. He is willing to travel, up for fighting anyone and would probably relish an immediate world title shot without having to step down a level. From Matchrooms perspective its a great time to get Bradley now as well as he is starting to fade and has been through a challenging career at the highest level compared to Brook who is has had very few tough fights.

Hit the nail on the head.

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 8:47 am

catchweight wrote:The sooner Brook can get Spence the better from his perspective. Spence is a super talent but still relatively inexperienced. Its a fight that will only get harder for Brook. I have a feeling this is a mandatory that wont prove as urgent as Dan and Bizier though.

Bradley should 100% be an option now for Brook. He is willing to travel, up for fighting anyone and would probably relish an immediate world title shot without having to step down a level. From Matchrooms perspective its a great time to get Bradley now as well as he is starting to fade and has been through a challenging career at the highest level compared to Brook who is has had very few tough fights.

Excellent post. Though I would still back Spence now. Porter aside, it's not like Brook has been fighting all comers either. I think Spence is to skilled and he would show Brook more respect than Algieri and not walk on to shots.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:30 am

According a few reports on Twitter, Brook has turned down a June bout with Cotto. Don't know the details but am getting seriously bored of Brook now. Sh*t or get off the pot son, your careeer's becoming a joke.

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:31 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:According a few reports on Twitter, Brook has turned down a June bout with Cotto.  Don't know the details but am getting seriously bored of Brook now.  Sh*t or get off the pot son, your careeer's becoming a joke.

I'm one of Khans biggest critics, but compare his resume to Brooks.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:36 am

Exactly. Brook has Porter and....

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:40 am

I don't understand why he wouldn't fight Cotto. It would be a huge pay day and a chance to make a huge name for himself. They're playing it safe,

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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:52 am

Assuming none of the notable fighters / title holders in or around Welterweight change weight class anytime soon, then Spence, Garcia, Bradley or the winner of Thurman-Porter; if Brook's next fight isn't against one of these, then even his most ardent supporters will be running out of patience and excuses for him, I reckon.

One is his (well-regarded, for a change) mandatory, the other (Bradley) is a genuine 'fight anyone' type with a proven record and the other two are simply the kind of names Brook needs to beat (or beat a second time if Porter comes through Thurman, which hopefully he won't) if he and Hearn want anyone to take their 'best Welterweight in the world' talk seriously.

We've had the 'not Brook's fault, this was a mandatory' stuff, we've had the stabbing excuse, we've had the talk about how he had his eyes set on Khan and it's Khan playing hardball etc. Individually, there's truth in all three of those to some degree, but it's getting tiresome now. Considering that he's undefeated and has been fighting at world title eliminator level or better for four years now, Brook's resume is remarkably thin for a guy who is turning thirty and has been a professional for twelve years.

I can't see Pacquiao being interested, and he may not even fight again in any case, and Khan ain't getting in there with Brook straight after a fight with Canelo, regardless of whether he wins or loses. There really is no excuse, now. Spence, Garcia, Bradley or Thurman / Porter. Just has to be Brook's next move for the sake of his credibility.
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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:55 am

I think he should go for Spence. In my opinion Spence would win, but if Brook really is the real deal, it would be a good time to fight him. If he beats Spence, that would mean he would have beat two of the top rated welters.

He could go for Garcia next and I think Brook would have little problem beating him.

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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:03 pm

If he fancies a voluntary before giving Spence a mandatory shot then I agree that Garcia would be a very good option, Adam. Maybe the best of the lot. Garcia has a decent fan base across the pond, can be sold to the casual British observer as the guy who took Khan out (giving Brook a chance to get one over on Amir and add to the rivalry) and is very beatable. Garcia's '0' is one of the luckiest in boxing at the moment, but regardless of that taking Garcia's unbeaten record still carries some cache for Brook if he manages it. Oh, and you can throw the WBC belt in to the pot as well as a juicy bonus.

But that's the cynical marketing stuff. Fact is, even taking that aside, Garcia is a good fighter who so far has probably accumulated a record greater than the sum of his parts. I'd fancy Brook to beat him same as you, but Garcia has made a habit of surprising people in the past when he's been expected to lose, ala the Khan and Matthysse fights. A win over Garcia would supplant Porter as Brook's best win, in my opinion.
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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:14 pm

Brook has options, but he needs to take them. He can't waste any more time. He is already 30 isn't he??

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:14 pm

It is important to remember that Brook has only been a professional for 11 years. While he may hold a belt, he is still learning his trade and needs a few more fights before stepping up in class. Carson Jones 3 would be a good fight. He is a decent prospect though

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:22 pm

Hilarious that Steffan has a sly dig a Kell when all he's doing is following Calzaghe's career path.

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:26 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Hilarious that Steffan has a sly dig a Kell when all he's doing is following Calzaghe's career path.

I was just reading through Joes record. The first 40 fights were mostly awful. Such a waste of talent early on. Brook is going the same way.

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:27 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Hilarious that Steffan has a sly dig a Kell when all he's doing is following Calzaghe's career path.
What the hell has Calzaghe got to do with this? We are talking about Kell Brook here. Try to keep up

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:33 pm

Dipper Brown wrote:If you're a Brook fan, you'd be hoping a Spence fight could turn into a Lacy Calzaghe situation. Champion with doubts over the quality he's faced vs the next big American hope. Champion wins and finally leaps up the food chain.

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:35 pm

Steffan wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Hilarious that Steffan has a sly dig a Kell when all he's doing is following Calzaghe's career path.
What the hell has Calzaghe got to do with this? We are talking about Kell Brook here. Try to keep up
Their careers are frighteningly similar mate, bags of talent but something of a hard sell and being strangled by promoters who really don't seem to have their best interests at heart. You laugh at Brook but as pointed out above (and which was basically my point) you could change Brook's name for Calzaghe's, throw in comments about Joe vs Mario Veit 3 and suddenly, history is repeating itself.


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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:38 pm

So let me get this straight...because Joe Calzaghe hasn't got the best record going...I am not allowed to say anything about Kell Brook's record? That is what you are saying yes?

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:40 pm

You can slag it. Because at least Calzaghe eventually went on to beat the top guys in his division. Kell's record as it stands is awful. He is a very good fighter. I would pick him to beat Khan, but his record is so padded.

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:42 pm

I hope you are not Welsh Adam. If you are this means you are held accountable for Joe Calzaghe's record and not allowed to comment on other fighters lack of ambition

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:46 pm

Sure Hatton has a padded record as well. Fighting old men and what not.

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:46 pm

Steffan wrote:So let me get this straight...because Joe Calzaghe hasn't got the best record going...I am not allowed to say anything about Kell Brook's record? That is what you are saying yes?
Just seems a bit of the old pot calling the kettle grimy ar$ed syndrome. Put it this way, if Joe was still active and in Kell's position now and people were basically calling him a waste of space and a joke, you'd be weeping into your Leek and Leek Surprise.

So yes, say what you like but bear in mind your boy Joe's career was well into it's Autumn phase before it got going and even then it's littered with the kind of defences that make Brook's record look respectable in comparison

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:52 pm

DAVE667 wrote:So yes, say what you like
How very kind of you...

DAVE667 wrote:Leek and Leek Surprise
I have no idea what this is...but I assume you are trying to do some idiotic Welsh stereotype? Very mature if you are

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:01 pm

Steffan wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:So yes, say what you like
How very kind of you...

DAVE667 wrote:Leek and Leek Surprise
I have no idea what this is...but I assume you are trying to do some idiotic Welsh stereotype? Very mature if you are
No idea if you have it with cheese or not Steffan, surely it comes down to personal choice but getting back to the point, it's all fine and dandy belittling Brook's career but you do seem to forget that Calzaghe's record was utter cack for years despite his obvious talent. You can blame his small town mentality, lack of ambition, fear of the unknown, fear of flying or his promoter's motivations but when anyone dares slate Lord Joe you do get awfully snippy about it.

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:06 pm

DAVE667 wrote:when anyone dares slate Lord Joe you do get awfully snippy about it
Please show me a thread where I have been "snippy" when someone mentions Calzaghe's record

I am also still baffled as to how a boxer who has been retired for a good few years now is being dragged into a Kell Brook thread

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:14 pm

Steffan wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:when anyone dares slate Lord Joe you do get awfully snippy about it
Please show me a thread where I have been "snippy" when someone mentions Calzaghe's record

I am also still baffled as to how a boxer who has been retired for a good few years now is being dragged into a Kell Brook thread
This is perhaps the least surprising thing I'll read this year...but let me slow it down for you and leave out some of the bigger words.

Kell's career seemingly mirrors Joe's at this stage. Very good fighter, but yet to prove himself the best in the division, hampered by injury, not the biggest sell in history, a promoter who seems to have his eyes focused on the career of another young up and comer in his stable (Hearn has AJ, Warren had Hatton) and in danger of being the forgotten man of boxing.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:19 pm

Steffan wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:when anyone dares slate Lord Joe you do get awfully snippy about it
Please show me a thread where I have been "snippy" when someone mentions Calzaghe's record

I am also still baffled as to how a boxer who has been retired for a good few years now is being dragged into a Kell Brook thread

Still relevant because he's Top5 Brit ATG boxer therefore his record provides useful context.

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:22 pm

There you go Steffan, even less words used and as it's not me that wrote them, maybe you can read them and digest the contents without thinking it's a personal dig at you.

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:25 pm

That is fine. You are intitled to compare records. As am I to critisise them. Glad we have got that established Dave thumbsup

I am here on this thread to talk about Kell Brook though

In response to:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Kell Brook vs Carson Jones III
This fight could well happen. Brook knows a fight with Khan is on the cards regardless of the Canelo result and will look to have a fight of this calibre before making the step up. I doubt very much that Special would lose to Jones. I also do not think he is anywhere near good enough to beat Khan, who's chances I rate against Saul


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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:26 pm

Steff, I'm Welsh and I brought it up. My point is, if you are a fan of Brook you can look at the example of Calzaghe to give you hope. Calzaghe's best fights came in his 30s.

I'm still highly critical of Brooks career as so far there is very little evidence of him fighting a higher calibre of opponent. If, and it's still a big if, he fights Spence, it could push him on a level. Personally I think he'd lose that fight, however.

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Post by Steffan Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:29 pm

Dipper Brown wrote:I'm still highly critical of Brooks career as so far there is very little evidence of him fighting a higher calibre of opponent
I want Brook v Khan although I think it would be a one sided UD to Khan. But I could win some good money on that

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:30 pm

Feel free to be critical and I'll feel free to remind you that Joe's career was no great shakes for the longest time. However, when Brook's career becomes even more farcical I shall try refrain from having a go at him (can't say the same about Eddie) and instead lament the waste of a very good talent indeed

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:37 pm

What's abundantly clear is that Brook needs a fight. I don't think boxing fans could stomach a 4th consecutive underwhelming defence. I'd imagine even the Matchroom w*nkers are getting frustrated.

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Post by Guest Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:49 pm

Problem for Brook is that at this age and stage in his career, he's not got long left to maximize his earning and a split with Hearn would be disastrous for him. However, add to this the fact that Eddie seems more concerned with AJ's career and telling everyone how great the Smith brothers are and that Josh Warrington is something special, you can see why Kell might have cause for concern.

Does Brook stick with Eddie or find another promoter and if so who? Surely not Fat Mick or Frank Warren. What about Saurland?

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Post by AdamT Mon 18 Apr 2016, 4:28 pm

He could go to America. Goldenboy or Mayweather promotions would take him in a heartbeat.

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Post by aja424 Tue 19 Apr 2016, 12:00 am

I would guess that 80-90% of the paying public, being gate and ppv, wouldn't even recognise that Thurman and Spence are a massive step up from jojodan and bizier.

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Post by rodders Tue 19 Apr 2016, 9:35 am

Looks to me like Brook has become another Junior Whitter type - he's obviously going to keep fighting stiffs to retain his belt until he can get his money fight with Khan, which won't happen unless Khan stock falls.
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Kell Brook - Where Next? - Page 2 Empty Re: Kell Brook - Where Next?

Post by Guest Tue 19 Apr 2016, 12:51 pm

Thing is, Brook is a better fighter than Witter by some distance.

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Kell Brook - Where Next? - Page 2 Empty Re: Kell Brook - Where Next?

Post by melv500 Wed 20 Apr 2016, 7:11 am

Well his next fight won't be against Spence who's been ordered to fight another eliminator:

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/15273851/errol-spence-jr-clear-ponomarev-hurdle-get-world-title-shot

I thought he was already mandatory? Not sure what happened here but I just get the feeling Brooks next opponent isn't going to be the big opponent we all want. Garcia or Bradley would be ok for me but will see....

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Kell Brook - Where Next? - Page 2 Empty Re: Kell Brook - Where Next?

Post by hazharrison Wed 20 Apr 2016, 8:56 am

Sat through an Eddie Hearn interview yesterday.

He listed the following:

Cotto - won't take a summer date
Bradley - wasn't keen to negotiate after coming off a tough fight against Pacquiao
Peterson - likely
Garcia - probably fighting Floyd
Broner - would demand extortionate money
Spence - has to fight another eliminator and won't be fast-tracked against Brook

So I'd be wagering the next opponent is Peterson. That would be an easy enough fight for Brook. Peterson's only top win is Khan - one he won based on strength and physicality (after which he was busted for PED use).


Last edited by hazharrison on Wed 20 Apr 2016, 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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