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Not much interest in Joshua - Martin

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Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake
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Post by Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake Wed 06 Apr 2016, 10:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

Surprised there's no chat about this weekend's title fight.

Interesting for a number of reasons. I don't view Martin as a valid champion. Winning the belt in a bizarre fight that only happened because they stripped Fury. Didn't think he looked great against Glazkov for as long as that lasted and there's nothing in his record that stands out.

Still it should present AJ's biggest test yet. He's big enough and on paper has more experience than AJ. However I reckon AJ takes this without too many problems. I think he'll have learned a lot from the Whyte fight. AJ within 6 rounds for me. Martin to retreat into his she'll the first time he feels AJ'S power then it's only a matter of time.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 1:55 pm

Fury being slightly less garbage than Wlad in their fight has given a false indication of where he is at, his work rate in that fight won't worry somebody who is likely to throw caution to the wind. Fury doesn't have great power, doesn't throw a lot and is susceptible to being hurt, I don't see how that adds up to him troubling AJ, you either have to hurt him or make him work.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 1:58 pm

You make a fair point. We will see what Fury looks like in the rematch. I still think he will pose Aj problems.

Heavyweights aren't great now, but it is sure exciting over now.

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Post by catchweight Sun 10 Apr 2016, 2:22 pm

Fury v Joshua would be a very good fight. Fury on points or Joshua by KO. Close to call now but the longer Joshua has to develop the more it favours him.

Haye might make Joshua miss a lot but offers very little back so hard to see how him being able to win if Joshua is content to control the action and keep his discipline. A dull fight probaby.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 2:38 pm

Good point. Hopefully these fights get made.

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Post by Guest Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:32 pm

When Tyson Fury weighed in for the Klitschko fight he was 17 stone 8 pounds. When Anthony Joshua weighed in for the Martin Charles "fight" he was 17 stone 6 pounds. So in terms of weight there isn't much difference.

Also:
Joshua: 6'6" height 82 inch reach
Fury: 6'9" height 85 inch reach

So although Tyson is the bigger man there isn't much in it. So ultimately it comes down to experience, stamina, and ring craft.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:57 pm

It comes down to a wide open...lazy heavyweight that got decked by a cruiser being absolutely creamed in two by the best heavy since Lewis..

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:58 pm

Wow Truss, don't sit on the fence. Haha.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 6:59 pm

Truss no way Aj would beat Vitali at his best.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:02 pm

Vitali had no defence...He'd kill him

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:03 pm

He had great reflexes and was awkward. Joshua hasn't the chin to stand up to Vit.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:06 pm

Joshua's poor chin is based on what exactly?

Vitali for all his supposed power couldn't stop Lewis when he was there for the taking, he was an accumulative puncher rather than a big hitter.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:07 pm

So a man that struggled past a fat Whyte, beats Vitai? Ok lads.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:11 pm

I never said it would be one punch. Vitali would land plenty.

I think Wlad of a few years back would also win. If Aj keeps improving, I might have to retract my opinion. But at this stage, he isn't better than the brothers.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:11 pm

A man who struggled past Steve Cunningham beats Wladimir Klitschko?

Your arguments are far too simplistic.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:13 pm

Haye or Fury will beat Aj. Remember this post Hammer.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:14 pm

Haye won't fight him...He hasn't got the bottle..

Fury would be legalised murder..

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:15 pm

Well enlighten me with the "Hammer I'm Bert sugar smith" expertise then.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:18 pm

If dollars are on the table, Haye has no choice. I think Haye will stop him early.

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Post by B.A. BARACUS Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:18 pm

AdamT wrote:So a man that struggled past a fat Whyte, beats Vitai? Ok lads.

Gotta agree.

Think too many people are getting carried away with the AJ hype.

He beat a turd 'champion' and struggled against Whyte, who at one point, looked on the verge of taking joshua out.

The division is rubbish anyway so he may well dominate for the next few years on the basis of his power alone.

He certainly packs a punch and would fancy him to take out any heavy, past or present, except maybe Mccall.




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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:20 pm

Vitali would murder Aj at this stage. It's preposterous to think any different. Perhaps Joshua will reach that level but not yet. Too much hype.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:21 pm

AdamT wrote:Haye or Fury will beat Aj. Remember this post Hammer.

Remember it so I can gloat like a child when i'm proven right?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:22 pm

He couldn't avoid anything Lewis threw..

Tired..Unmotivated...Old Lewis..

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:24 pm

I mean Haye will stop him late. Ok Hammer chat then.

Lewis is ten times better than Joshua. Silly comparison Truss.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:26 pm

Also Lewis was landing that much early. He threw caution to the wind and took the fight to Vitali. Lewis was better, no doubt.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:28 pm

AdamT wrote:Vitali would murder Aj at this stage. It's preposterous to think any different. Perhaps Joshua will reach that level but not yet. Too much hype.

Based on what exactly?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:29 pm

Vitali plodded forward..wide open in a straight line...Joshua hits like a mule and he hits straight...

No brainer..

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:30 pm

Based on the Whyte fight Hammer. So would you pick Aj to beat Vitali??

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:31 pm

Jesus Truss, you're actually being serious? Thought you were winding me up. Ok good to hear your thoughts. One of us will be laughing soon.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:38 pm

That's not really explaining anything is it. AJ would have the speed and power advantage over Vitali so yes i'd give him a decent chance, Vitali was blowing hard by the 5th round against Lewis so doubt the latter rounds will be his friend either.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:42 pm

Lewis is a different prospect. Well we will never know. Is the Haye fight realistic? Or will he fight Wilder/povetkin next?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:44 pm

You're talking as if he fought Lewis on the top of his game, he did not; Lewis struggled to find his range and lacked real pop in his punches that night, he usually started quickly against bigger men.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:45 pm

Lewis looked awful that night

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:46 pm

Is Aj actually quicker? Vitali far more experienced and obviously tougher. Whyte nearly stopped Aj. He wouldn't do that with Vitali.

klits wasn't preparing to fight Lewis. The reverse is also true. He was trying to get the fatter Lewis out of there. Funny how Lennox retired straight away.

Aj blew air against a nobody. Some difference.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:48 pm

I agree Lewis wasn't at his best. Not arguing any different. Forget about Lewis for a minute. Aj struggled with Whyte? He was all over the shop at a time. Fair dues, he got the win, but Whyte looked like Toney's fatter cousin.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:51 pm

Whyte didn't nearly stop him at all Adam, he momentarily rocked him after which he settled down and got on with things in a more disciplined manner.

AJ has far superior handspeed, it's not even really a contest and i'd wager he hits a lot lot harder too.

It's not really any difference at all, the result is the same, Lewis didn't make Vitali work that night until the 5th and went on to make a right old mess of his face. The Joshua/Whyte fight actually highlights that body shape doesn't mean a lot, Whyte was able to absorb a lot of early punishment and come through it, you don't do if you're not in good shape.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 7:55 pm

I still don't agree Hammer, but it's a good debate. I'm just not sold on Aj fully. No doubt the lads a beast. But I will wait until he fights the big names. If he blows them over, I'm happy to say I was wrong for doubting him.

Also he does punch harder, no doubt at all.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:01 pm

I wonder if guys were running around the playground or sitting in the office, proclaiming Tyson would kill any past great. I bet many of the same guys, stated they "knew" Tyson wasn't the greatest after Douglas. It will be the same with Aj.

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Post by catchweight Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:01 pm

Lets see Joshua fight a couple of haf decent opponents first. Even the washed up Lennox Lewis that Vitali took on would smoke Joshua after 15 fights.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:03 pm

You talk sense. It's a good debate though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:07 pm

Adam you weren't around when Tyson was in his pomp..and yes he'd have a good chance of beating any heavy in history..

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:10 pm

I never Said I was. I was around in Vitali pomp and I know how he good he was. Even Lewis admits now that Vitali was excellent.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:11 pm

The pomp that last all of about 4 fights Adam?

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:14 pm

who has Joshua beat, that you have this high opinion? He is a good prospect with a belt. That is all so far. He looked awful against a brit level fighter recently. Haye will beat him.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:17 pm

He didn't look awful though did he, that's just hyperbole to try, that question can be swung around for Vitali, who exactly did he beat?

My high opinion of Joshua is based on what i've seen of him, a record can be impressive but the eyeball test ultimately means more, the exact thing you're using to rate Vitali.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:19 pm

Vitali was a champ for years. Aj is still a prospect. All I'm saying is a 15/16 fight prospect would not beat Vitali. I bet most outside of here would agree.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:22 pm

Eusebio Pedroza was a champion for years but i'd be picking Lomachenko to beat him 10/10.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:26 pm

Is Aj as good as Loma though?? Vitali was a great heavy, in a poor era. Aj is a good prospect in a poor era. It shouldn't be a debate yet.

You do realise, you will look silly if Haye/Fury beats him? Arguing for a prospect beating Vitali.

Anyway Hearn won't let Aj near haye anytime soon. He isn't stupid.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:28 pm

Vitali was a good Heavyweight in a poor era, if he was great he would have beaten Lewis.

You do realise i'm not a child so don't really give a toss, you talk as if Haye would actually go near AJ, he wouldn't, Wilder is the fight he'd want.

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Post by AdamT Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:30 pm

Haye will fight him hammer. He will beat him, if Hearn allows it.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 10 Apr 2016, 8:30 pm

The same Haye who wouldn't throw a punch in anger against Wlad or Valuev somehow changes a habit of a lifetime.

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