Not much interest in Joshua - Martin

First topic message reminder :

Surprised there's no chat about this weekend's title fight.

Interesting for a number of reasons. I don't view Martin as a valid champion. Winning the belt in a bizarre fight that only happened because they stripped Fury. Didn't think he looked great against Glazkov for as long as that lasted and there's nothing in his record that stands out.

Still it should present AJ's biggest test yet. He's big enough and on paper has more experience than AJ. However I reckon AJ takes this without too many problems. I think he'll have learned a lot from the Whyte fight. AJ within 6 rounds for me. Martin to retreat into his she'll the first time he feels AJ'S power then it's only a matter of time.

So you acknowledge Vitali was good. Ok me calling him great is pushing it. Please tell me how Joshua is good? What evidence do you have at this stage??

Wlad never let Haye in the fight and had the stamina to keep the elusive Haye at distance for 12. Joshua won't have the discipline to do the same. If he doesn't ko Haye early, Haye will tire him out and stop him late.

Haye to smart, too quick and hits hard enough to flatten the top heavy Bodybuilder.

You don't read so good do you Adam?

I think Joshua is good based on what i've seen, the way he'll wait for an opening then exploit it with a big right hand, that power is a big big equaliser.

AdamT wrote:Wlad never let Haye in the fight and had the stamina to keep the elusive Haye at distance for 12. Joshua won't have the discipline to do the same. If he doesn't ko Haye early, Haye will tire him out and stop him late.

Haye to smart, too quick and hits hard enough to flatten the top heavy Bodybuilder.

When has Haye ever tired anybody out, he was blowing against Ruiz in a fight he dominated from the start but now at the age of 35/36 he's developed stamina that he's never had whilst looking like a top heavy Bodybuilder himself.

Haye has big power also. And much quicker. Granted he is smaller, but no change there. I'm confident Haye wins.

Haye will take the fight against Joshua, collect the ppv money and spend the fight running away

He will run. Then he will attack. Aj would beat him with more experience, just don't think he's ready yet.

I genuinely dont think Haye has the willingness to take the neccessary risk of getting hurt to beat Joshua. Im not even sure he have the neccessary skills to do it even if was willing to take the risk. He has fought three big heavyweight (Klitschko, Valuev and Harrison). In all of them he was tentative. He basically needed the ref to tell him to hit an Audley Harrison who was impersonating a statue. It took him to two round to pluck up the courage to actually properly attack Harrison when he realised Harrison wasnt actually going to punch back. Scraped by Valuev and didnt even provide a shadow for Klitschko to shadow box against.

I think he is back for the money and once the ppv cash is a given he will just go in there and look to get through 12 rounds without shipping any damage. You can already tell from the type of opponents he is targeting that his comeback is nothing more than an excercise to boost his profile until he gets a ppv fight rather than a serious effort to challenge himself by taking on contenders who could pose a challenge.

Joshua would either stop Haye late or win a really wide decision. The only fighter I can see beating AJ is Fury.

Not sure you can use Klits performance as evidence Haye can't beat Joshua. Joshua is nowhere near as good defensively and has a much inferior jab. I think Haye underestimated Klit and I think Booth needs to take some responsibility as clearly there was no plan B at all. Also Valuev as bad as he was has one defeat on his record and that's to Haye also would prob best anyone on AJs record.. Then Audrey it looked like he was waiting rather than scared, blew him away pretty quick after he connected.

Joshua hasn't fought anyone who tries to avoid punches then counter which Haye will do. Not suggesting Haye wins but he's certainly a live underdog and a huge step up for AJ. Two weight world champion, who has a bit of speed and a huge puncher is a big test for most fighters.

Actually he lost twice Valuev.

I also think Fury can beat Joshua. Either Aj early, or Fury late.

I don't see how Fury doesn't get knocked out by Joshua.

I think he can avoid many of Joshuas shots. AJ won't like a bigger fighter, who can move well with his feet.

Obviously AJ has the power to ko him. It's up to Fury to work hard enough, to avoid it and land his own shots.

One thing is for sure. AJ will actually throw shots at Fury, unlike Wlad did.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

AdamT wrote:Wlad never let Haye in the fight and had the stamina to keep the elusive Haye at distance for 12. Joshua won't have the discipline to do the same. If he doesn't ko Haye early, Haye will tire him out and stop him late.

Haye to smart, too quick and hits hard enough to flatten the top heavy Bodybuilder.

When has Haye ever tired anybody out, he was blowing against Ruiz in a fight he dominated from the start but now at the age of 35/36 he's developed stamina that he's never had whilst looking like a top heavy Bodybuilder himself.

Any chance you could just come out and accuse David Haye of substance abuse as it's getting tiresome watching you skirt around the issue. For someone who seems to pride himself on being so very forthright you do seem somewhat timid when it comes to this particular topic.

Dave do you think Haye would have any chance against AJ??

Haye will hope Joshua's engine runs out before his does. I literally can't see another way he wins.

Haye will hope Joshua's engine runs out before his does. I literally can't see another way he wins.

kingraf wrote:Haye will hope Joshua's engine runs out before his does. I literally can't see another way he wins.

That is how I think he wins. He will be in and out. Conserving his energy. Unlike Wlad, I see AJ wasting loads of energy and getting stopped around the 8th or 9th. Wlad was very controlled in the Haye fight and was at his very best. If Haye survives the early rounds, I think he will Murder AJ.

I don't think Hearn will risk AJ with Haye. He will go straight for Fury.

Yes...for all Joshua's attributes, I don't think Haye is far wrong in his assertion that AJ is beatable. It would be interesting to see how he copes with feints and lateral movement as all he faced up to press have been rather static, ponderous opponents. For that reason I think Fury (or the Fury that beat Wlad) causes AJ a few problems but Fury lacks the handspeed and reflexes of Haye and I think AJ would be more inclined to let his hands go against Fury as he'd be more confident that he wasn't going to get countered. Fury may well lean on and tie him up and it could end up a bit of a wrestling match but I think AJ lands on Fury at some stage and if he does, it's game over. He lands on Haye, it's game over (TBH he lands on those massive heads on Easter Island, it's game over) but I think Haye catches AJ first.

Haye's next fight will go a long way to deciding whether or not they fight in July.

DAVE667 wrote:Yes...for all Joshua's attributes, I don't think Haye is far wrong in his assertion that AJ is beatable. It would be interesting to see how he copes with feints and lateral movement as all he faced up to press have been rather static, ponderous opponents. For that reason I think Fury (or the Fury that beat Wlad) causes AJ a few problems but Fury lacks the handspeed and reflexes of Haye and I think AJ would be more inclined to let his hands go against Fury as he'd be more confident that he wasn't going to get countered. Fury may well lean on and tie him up and it could end up a bit of a wrestling match but I think AJ lands on Fury at some stage and if he does, it's game over. He lands on Haye, it's game over (TBH he lands on those massive heads on Easter Island, it's game over) but I think Haye catches AJ first.

Haye's next fight will go a long way to deciding whether or not they fight in July.

I think AJ will freeze against Haye. I don't think he will want to let his hands go.

AdamT wrote:Dave do you think Haye would have any chance against AJ??

Problem is Haye's engine itself isn't the greatest and with the detonator AJ has in his hands you'd think that its the sort of fight where for every one joule AJ burns Haye has to burn two. Certainly if AJ works harder than Haye for the first four rounds I suspect it will be over already

I just think Aj will throw a lot and miss. Then when he misses, he will feel Hayes own power. He will become tentative. AJ could probably in time, become better than Haye. But it is too soon for him in my opinion. I definitely think Haye knocks him out.

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Yes...for all Joshua's attributes, I don't think Haye is far wrong in his assertion that AJ is beatable. It would be interesting to see how he copes with feints and lateral movement as all he faced up to press have been rather static, ponderous opponents. For that reason I think Fury (or the Fury that beat Wlad) causes AJ a few problems but Fury lacks the handspeed and reflexes of Haye and I think AJ would be more inclined to let his hands go against Fury as he'd be more confident that he wasn't going to get countered. Fury may well lean on and tie him up and it could end up a bit of a wrestling match but I think AJ lands on Fury at some stage and if he does, it's game over. He lands on Haye, it's game over (TBH he lands on those massive heads on Easter Island, it's game over) but I think Haye catches AJ first.

Haye's next fight will go a long way to deciding whether or not they fight in July.

I think AJ will freeze against Haye. I don't think he will want to let his hands go.

I'd like to think he wouldn't. He seems to be able to cope with the big occasions quite well. His issue is one of composure. Whyte got under his skin and it showed in the way he fought. There's a chance Haye will try and get under his skin a little (without going to the lengths of being the "bad guy"). There's been plenty of experienced fighters that AJ's dealt with but they've all lacked ambition. Now, whilst, "putting it all on the line" is clearly something Haye's not too fond of, I'm sure he's looking at the bigger picture and the fact that a win over AJ sets him up for a HUGE fight with the winner of Wlad and Fury, so I think he'll definitely go into that fight knowing that, whatever his purse, there's an even bigger chunk of money to be made if he wins.

Not saying he WILL beat AJ as AJ will also have a desire to make big money and become Undisputed HW Champion which also makes him dangerous. Safe to say it's yet another fight that isn't going 12 rounds if it gets made.

I just think it is a bit early for AJ. Maybe next year he would be favourite. I think AJ would be better going for Fury first. I think Fury can win that fight, but see it as more 50/50 at this stage then Haye.

AdamT wrote:I just think Aj will throw a lot and miss. Then when he misses, he will feel Hayes own power. He will become tentative. AJ could probably in time, become better than Haye. But it is too soon for him in my opinion. I definitely think Haye knocks him out.

Don't see it. Even if Haye makes AJ miss when have you seen him make a bigger fighter pay? AJ is bigger. Probably has a better jab tbh. Punches harder. I'm not gonna give Haye no chance because he's good enough to win... but as you can imagine I can't see anyway he wins unless AJ gases

AdamT wrote:I just think it is a bit early for AJ. Maybe next year he would be favourite. I think AJ would be better going for Fury first. I think Fury can win that fight, but see it as more 50/50 at this stage then Haye.

AJ is a World Titlist. Haye just beat a guy outside the top 100. Maybe it's too early for Haye.

A world titlist against a terrible paper champion. Haye hasn't the greatest heavy record, but he has done more than AJ.

Anyway it won't matter. AJ will be protected from Haye.

Another bum gets knocked out and people are comparing him to Vitali!!

Let's go further, he's already up there with Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Smoking Joe.

Unbelievable.

What if Audley gets their first and f*cks up everyone's plans?

Richie Ramrod wrote:Another bum gets knocked out and people are comparing him to Vitali!!

Let's go further, he's already up there with Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Smoking Joe.

Unbelievable.

The same people making him great, were blasting him after the Whyte fight. The same thing happened after Quigg. He was average after Salinas. Then a killer after Martinez.

DAVE667 wrote:What if Audley gets their first and f*cks up everyone's plans?

He wasn't just at the studio for the heck of it. He is coming BACK!!

AdamT wrote:

Richie Ramrod wrote:Another bum gets knocked out and people are comparing him to Vitali!!

Let's go further, he's already up there with Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Smoking Joe.

Unbelievable.

The same people making him great, were blasting him after the Whyte fight. The same thing happened after Quigg. He was average after Salinas. Then a killer after Martinez.

Also agree with you, if a motivated throwing bombs Haye turns up that could explode the Hearn cash cow.

That's why I don't expect it to happen until Haye is no longer a threat.

Richie Ramrod wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Richie Ramrod wrote:Another bum gets knocked out and people are comparing him to Vitali!!

Let's go further, he's already up there with Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Smoking Joe.

Unbelievable.

The same people making him great, were blasting him after the Whyte fight. The same thing happened after Quigg. He was average after Salinas. Then a killer after Martinez.

Also agree with you, if a motivated throwing bombs Haye turns up that could explode the Hearn cash cow.

That's why I don't expect it to happen until Haye is no longer a threat.

Depends how much money a Haye/AJ fight generates for Eddie

Haye will sing from the rooftops, but will be left to fight Briggs and co.

Haye should try to sneak in and get Wilder/Povetkin. Haye has name value and if he gets a strap, he can use it as leverage to land the Joshua fight. I think AJ will fight the same calibre of opponents as Brook to be honest.

Wilder's talked about Haye and their "beef" over the sparring footage that went public so that's always likely...although he's only talked about it recently but we've all known for years that Wilder was made to look a **** by Haye in sparring.

Given there's a plethora of decent (if not exactly brilliant) HW matches that can now be made, it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the most infuriating low risk uncompetitive b*llocks thrown up by promoters and fed to us as if it's angel's hearts with caviar on the side

Given there's a plethora of decent (if not exactly brilliant) HW matches that can now be made, it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the most infuriating low risk uncompetitive b*llocks thrown up by promoters and fed to us as if it's angel's hearts with caviar on the side[/quote]

This is my worry.

DAVE667 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

AdamT wrote:Wlad never let Haye in the fight and had the stamina to keep the elusive Haye at distance for 12. Joshua won't have the discipline to do the same. If he doesn't ko Haye early, Haye will tire him out and stop him late.

Haye to smart, too quick and hits hard enough to flatten the top heavy Bodybuilder.

When has Haye ever tired anybody out, he was blowing against Ruiz in a fight he dominated from the start but now at the age of 35/36 he's developed stamina that he's never had whilst looking like a top heavy Bodybuilder himself.

Any chance you could just come out and accuse David Haye of substance abuse as it's getting tiresome watching you skirt around the issue. For someone who seems to pride himself on being so very forthright you do seem somewhat timid when it comes to this particular topic.

I don't think he is taking, it was a sarcastic response to Adams moronic viewpoint, at the age of 35 Haye won't have improved stamina nor will he fight differently to how he has.

So I'm a moron Hammer?? Immature wee runt.

AdamT wrote:So I'm a moron Hammer??  Immature wee runt.

You're not helping your case Adam

Can't be bothered. Not worth it.

It will 100% go that way. The heavyweight division is just getting interesting and it will end up being stifled back into decline by greed.

Im not holding out much hope for Joshuas first defence of his IBF belt.

Right now the Haye fight is being brewed. 100% Haye will be his first meaningful defence in Summer 2017 after Haye has fought a few more doormen and Joshua knocks out a few more 'big tests'.

It's so manufactured its unbelievable. Check out social media, its going mental for Joshua. It's amazing how many boxings experts are out there all of a sudden. Eddie has done a stellar job on this one.

I like Joshua. I thought he was over manufactured at first and very fake. But I think not so much now and Im warming to him.

I really hate the hype train though. Even a lot on here are getting so carried away with it all now. The simple fact is we don't know how good Joshua is because he hasnt been tested. The problem is who can test him without him having to step up to genuine 'World level'?

EX7EY wrote:It will 100% go that way. The heavyweight division is just getting interesting and it will end up being stifled back into decline by greed.

Im not holding out much hope for Joshuas first defence of his IBF belt.

Right now the Haye fight is being brewed. 100% Haye will be his first meaningful defence in Summer 2017 after Haye has fought a few more doormen and Joshua knocks out a few more 'big tests'.

It's so manufactured its unbelievable. Check out social media, its going mental for Joshua. It's amazing how many boxings experts are out there all of a sudden. Eddie has done a stellar job on this one.

I like Joshua.  I thought he was over manufactured at first and very fake. But I think not so much now and Im warming to him.

I really hate the hype train though. Even a lot on here are getting so carried away with it all now. The simple fact is we don't know how good Joshua is because he hasnt been tested. The problem is who can test him without him having to step up to genuine 'World level'?

In theory, he shouldn't have a world title unless he is prepared to fight at 'world level'.

Sadly, we all know this isn't the case.

I think Fury beats him right now and make him and Haye very close.

I've no issue with AJ being a world title holder, the cr*p that's around these days, coupled with the greed of the organisations (exemplified when the IBF stripped Fury so quickly) meant that Eddie Hearn would be doing AJ a massive dis-service by not trying to secure him a title shot.

In an ideal world a fighter would work his way up to title contention but hey, no-one seemed to care too much about that when 7 fight Neon Leon fought and beat Ali did they? In much the same way, there was less fuss about AJ's lack of experience than there was when Fury got his title shot. Then again, the amount of cr*p Wlad fought meant Fury was no better or worse than most of them from the last decade.

Carpe Diem and all that, if the opportunity is there, grab it.

DAVE667 wrote:I've no issue with AJ being a world title holder, the cr*p that's around these days, coupled with the greed of the organisations (exemplified when the IBF stripped Fury so quickly) meant that Eddie Hearn would be doing AJ a massive dis-service by not trying to secure him a title shot.

In an ideal world a fighter would work his way up to title contention but hey, no-one seemed to care too much about that when 7 fight Neon Leon fought and beat Ali did they? In much the same way, there was less fuss about AJ's lack of experience than there was when Fury got his title shot. Then again, the amount of cr*p Wlad fought meant Fury was no better or worse than most of them from the last decade.

Carpe Diem and all that, if the opportunity is there, grab it.

You can't blame Hearn or Joshua of course. Just taking the chances that have arrived. But, now he has a title we can expect him to fight world level opponents.

Fury may have only beaten crap before his shot, but he did go and beat Wlad in his own backyard which is a win against a 'world level' opponent.

Fury will be like Brook. Only more fame and ppv fights against overmatched opponents. They might take the Fury fight at some stage.

Guest82 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I've no issue with AJ being a world title holder, the cr*p that's around these days, coupled with the greed of the organisations (exemplified when the IBF stripped Fury so quickly) meant that Eddie Hearn would be doing AJ a massive dis-service by not trying to secure him a title shot.

In an ideal world a fighter would work his way up to title contention but hey, no-one seemed to care too much about that when 7 fight Neon Leon fought and beat Ali did they? In much the same way, there was less fuss about AJ's lack of experience than there was when Fury got his title shot. Then again, the amount of cr*p Wlad fought meant Fury was no better or worse than most of them from the last decade.

Carpe Diem and all that, if the opportunity is there, grab it.

You can't blame Hearn or Joshua of course.  Just taking the chances that have arrived.  But, now he has a title we can expect him to fight world level opponents.

Fury may have only beaten crap before his shot, but he did go and beat Wlad in his own backyard which is a win against a 'world level' opponent.  

According to Eddie and the SKY pundits, he already has...in fact so has everyone who's ever fought on SKY. Amazed they didn't tell us Nigel Benn's lad was World level already

DAVE667 wrote:

Guest82 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I've no issue with AJ being a world title holder, the cr*p that's around these days, coupled with the greed of the organisations (exemplified when the IBF stripped Fury so quickly) meant that Eddie Hearn would be doing AJ a massive dis-service by not trying to secure him a title shot.

In an ideal world a fighter would work his way up to title contention but hey, no-one seemed to care too much about that when 7 fight Neon Leon fought and beat Ali did they? In much the same way, there was less fuss about AJ's lack of experience than there was when Fury got his title shot. Then again, the amount of cr*p Wlad fought meant Fury was no better or worse than most of them from the last decade.

Carpe Diem and all that, if the opportunity is there, grab it.

You can't blame Hearn or Joshua of course.  Just taking the chances that have arrived.  But, now he has a title we can expect him to fight world level opponents.

Fury may have only beaten crap before his shot, but he did go and beat Wlad in his own backyard which is a win against a 'world level' opponent.  

According to Eddie and the SKY pundits, he already has...in fact so has everyone who's ever fought on SKY. Amazed they didn't tell us Nigel Benn's lad was World level already

The worrying bit for me was how much Nigel kissed his kid.

I haven't been that uncomfortable since watching re-runs of Top of the Pops.

Richie Ramrod wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Guest82 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I've no issue with AJ being a world title holder, the cr*p that's around these days, coupled with the greed of the organisations (exemplified when the IBF stripped Fury so quickly) meant that Eddie Hearn would be doing AJ a massive dis-service by not trying to secure him a title shot.

In an ideal world a fighter would work his way up to title contention but hey, no-one seemed to care too much about that when 7 fight Neon Leon fought and beat Ali did they? In much the same way, there was less fuss about AJ's lack of experience than there was when Fury got his title shot. Then again, the amount of cr*p Wlad fought meant Fury was no better or worse than most of them from the last decade.

Carpe Diem and all that, if the opportunity is there, grab it.

You can't blame Hearn or Joshua of course.  Just taking the chances that have arrived.  But, now he has a title we can expect him to fight world level opponents.

Fury may have only beaten crap before his shot, but he did go and beat Wlad in his own backyard which is a win against a 'world level' opponent.  

According to Eddie and the SKY pundits, he already has...in fact so has everyone who's ever fought on SKY. Amazed they didn't tell us Nigel Benn's lad was World level already

The worrying bit for me was how much Nigel kissed his kid.

I haven't been that uncomfortable since watching re-runs of Top of the Pops.

haha. Agreed.

Guest82 wrote:

Richie Ramrod wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Guest82 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I've no issue with AJ being a world title holder, the cr*p that's around these days, coupled with the greed of the organisations (exemplified when the IBF stripped Fury so quickly) meant that Eddie Hearn would be doing AJ a massive dis-service by not trying to secure him a title shot.

In an ideal world a fighter would work his way up to title contention but hey, no-one seemed to care too much about that when 7 fight Neon Leon fought and beat Ali did they? In much the same way, there was less fuss about AJ's lack of experience than there was when Fury got his title shot. Then again, the amount of cr*p Wlad fought meant Fury was no better or worse than most of them from the last decade.

Carpe Diem and all that, if the opportunity is there, grab it.

You can't blame Hearn or Joshua of course.  Just taking the chances that have arrived.  But, now he has a title we can expect him to fight world level opponents.

Fury may have only beaten crap before his shot, but he did go and beat Wlad in his own backyard which is a win against a 'world level' opponent.  

According to Eddie and the SKY pundits, he already has...in fact so has everyone who's ever fought on SKY. Amazed they didn't tell us Nigel Benn's lad was World level already

The worrying bit for me was how much Nigel kissed his kid.

I haven't been that uncomfortable since watching re-runs of Top of the Pops.

haha. Agreed.

I think they have a solid relationship and Nigel's learned not to give too much of a sh!t what other people think. Loves his son, isn't afraid to show it and Conor seems mature enough not to care whether other people about his dad. As for Conor, he's clearly a bit headstrong and gung-ho in the ring but you can see glimpses of his dad's fighting style in there. It's to be hoped that he's a bit more circumspect than Nigel when it comes to facing a "boxer" and doesn't just think brute force and workrate will get the job done every time.