England v Wales

First topic message reminder :

Anyone know much about the ticket sales for this game?

I may head down for this, however just took a quick peak for tickets and there is only one block available, and not 2 tickets sat together. It can't be sold out already can it?

Anyone know?

If Wales keep this form up they'll end up getting relegated from the 6 nations

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I assume we is Wales?

Any way after a decent start by the Welsh, Englands pack dominated set piece and were stronger at the breakdown. Wales lineout was really poor. Then when you had chances to run, the handling was seriousley sub par.

Wales are a better team than that display, but they need to improve quickly.

Good luck in NZ

Thought I'd have a look at Wales Online and actually this is quite balanced.. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-match-reports/england-27-13-wales-match-11401100

Fanster wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

You can only beat what is put in front of you and they did, comfortably.  I would say that Launchbury, Harrison and Clifford did enough to be noticed.  Unfortunately so did Ford and Youngs for other reasons.  You may disagree but I can tell you that English fans will be pleased with how a few of those lads showed up.

Launchbury's return was always expected, he's a quality operator and has been tipped for captaincy from years back.

Clifford played well, but with all his good work against such a passive and gutless defence it's hard to judge.

Harris is a haywire operator, and is a less intelligent Haskell around the breakdown, I think he did more harm than good today.

I don't disagree with you at all, England fans will be pleased, but they shouldn't be OTT, it wasn't a quality game, Wales were extremely dissapointing, and the difference in the teams were young hungry players with something to play for and prove, the big performer for me today was Yarde. Totally electric in everything he did, and for me couldn't possibly have done more to be selected!

Yup Wales were disappointing but a very similar performance to the last 4 or 5 against England.

See now I find this odd, you'd think a humiliating record result in 2015 would be enough for some perspective, in the last 3 years England have had the better, however when Wales have had the better they've broken records, so currently I'd be a bit coy as to taunt opposing teams.

I don't understand; humiliating result? Not taunting either.

Clifford showed that he's got what it takes but also that he's currently still slightly error prone. Couple of great finishes from Burrell and Watson.

It was only a friendly, we were trying out combinations, our boys didn't want to put too much into it in case they got injured or showed NZ our proper moves and patterns, we wuz 'aving a larff, etc.

7 1/2. I'm with you, not understanding. What humiliating result? What taunting? What records?

The only thing Wales have broken in recent years is the odd English heart, but usually with a close result, never in a humiliating way. The odd record certainly, one that kept going on, and on, and on about how great they were under Gatland, the needle just got stuck.

All of the big wins have come from England and they have been few and far between, most games have been close at the end, although England under Jones would probably have closed out the heart breakers.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:7 1/2. I'm with you, not understanding. What humiliating result? What taunting? What records?

The only thing Wales have broken in recent years is the odd English heart, but usually with a close result, never in a humiliating way. The odd record certainly, one that kept going on, and on, and on about how great they were under Gatland, the needle just got stuck.

All of the big wins have come from England and they have been few and far between, most games have been close at the end, although England under Jones would probably have closed out the heart breakers.

Think he's talking to Fanster.

Probably 2013

Griff wrote:It was only a friendly, we were trying out combinations, our boys didn't want to put too much into it in case they got injured or showed NZ our proper moves and patterns, we wuz 'aving a larff, etc.

A good thought to take with you on your hols, hope you are not going down South though, the blinkers will most likely come off very quickly. Lot of money to pay for a bout of depression.

Oh, and you have been watching too much TOWIE, I live there so believe me I know..................................... horrible.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:7 1/2. I'm with you, not understanding. What humiliating result? What taunting? What records?

The only thing Wales have broken in recent years is the odd English heart, but usually with a close result, never in a humiliating way. The odd record certainly, one that kept going on, and on, and on about how great they were under Gatland, the needle just got stuck.

All of the big wins have come from England and they have been few and far between, most games have been close at the end, although England under Jones would probably have closed out the heart breakers.

I am not entirely sure what he is talking about either because in the last five games it is 4-1 to England and the game we did lose was by three points. Probably did us a favour by beating us in the World Cup, something needed to change.

stub wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:7 1/2. I'm with you, not understanding. What humiliating result? What taunting? What records?

The only thing Wales have broken in recent years is the odd English heart, but usually with a close result, never in a humiliating way. The odd record certainly, one that kept going on, and on, and on about how great they were under Gatland, the needle just got stuck.

All of the big wins have come from England and they have been few and far between, most games have been close at the end, although England under Jones would probably have closed out the heart breakers.

Think he's talking to Fanster.

I think we both are.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Griff wrote:It was only a friendly, we were trying out combinations, our boys didn't want to put too much into it in case they got injured or showed NZ our proper moves and patterns, we wuz 'aving a larff, etc.

A good thought to take with you on your hols, hope you are not going down South though, the blinkers will most likely come off very quickly. Lot of money to pay for a bout of depression.

Oh, and you have been watching too much TOWIE, I live there so believe me I know..................................... horrible.

Please tell me you didn't take my post seriously?!

Well done England. Awful performance by Wales.

Not looking forward to the next few weeks of rugby from our point of view.

Nothing new from Wales and certainly not unexpected. This is all this team is capable of under the current coaching team. In 2008 Gatland took the same team that had been humiliated at the WC and won a GS. This year Jones took largely the same England team and won a GS.

I've been saying for ages that this Welsh coaching team has run it's course - totally devoid of any ideas and an inability to get the best out of players, many of whom are still excellent individuals and certainly the best Wales has. Some coaches (few actually) can adapt themselves and reinvent teams when things get stale. Gatland is not one of those, he has one formula and has shown no ability to adapt.

Wales will not play to their potential again until there is a change at the top. Unfortunately the WRU are as stubborn and pigheaded as Gatland, so don't expect much for a while.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

stub wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:7 1/2. I'm with you, not understanding. What humiliating result? What taunting? What records?

The only thing Wales have broken in recent years is the odd English heart, but usually with a close result, never in a humiliating way. The odd record certainly, one that kept going on, and on, and on about how great they were under Gatland, the needle just got stuck.

All of the big wins have come from England and they have been few and far between, most games have been close at the end, although England under Jones would probably have closed out the heart breakers.

Think he's talking to Fanster.

I think we both are.

Ah, I've re-read. I see.

Jonathan Joseph is a bit of a concern for me. Didn't do anything particularly awful, but he's stopped backing himself on the outside. He keeps receiving these bath-style miss passes and then ducking inside rather than trying to step outside his defender. Looks like a bit of confidence has gone.

Maybe trying to not cut down the space for his wings as well? Didn't Daly cut back on the inside later in the game and make a good break?

Joseph had a pretty 50/50 game, some good half breaks and good interplay with his wings but also long periods of doing nothing and some ropey passes.

Sort of enjoyable game if you were English, a bit dispiriting if you are Welsh but not a serious game either way.  Wales do need to play with more ambition and may be more skill.

England had a more athletic pack and on the firm ground this helped.  Launchbury was very good (is there any sort of case for moving Itoje to blindside?).  Clifford and Harrison came more into the game as it progressed.  Not sure any of 9,10,12 or 13 looked good enough.  Despite the try, Youngs looked iffy.  Is it too late to bring Robson into the squad?

Ford should be given the summer off and Farrell should start at 10.  I would like to see more of Daly as Joseph has not played well for a while.

Agree with SCW, why not one last play as this was Devoto's first game and Daly had only touched the ball once.

Youngs was terribly average to poor. He contributed strongly to the Welsh try. Ford looked like a carbon copy of Charlie Hodgson when he played for England. If you are not mentally tough for test matches then you shouldn't be in the squad. Very surprised Eddie praised him after the match. Wales need a new coach.

[quote="cb"]Sort of enjoyable game if you were English, a bit dispiriting if you are Welsh but not a serious game either way.  Wales do need to play with more ambition and may be more skill.

It was a serious game in the fact that we were pretty much at full strength and we came second best all game, I said before hand that if lost this game it could be quite damaging.

As for playing with more skill well thats one of our big problems at the moment, our basic skill set is very poor

thomh wrote:Jonathan Joseph is a bit of a concern for me. Didn't do anything particularly awful, but he's stopped backing himself on the outside. He keeps receiving these bath-style miss passes and then ducking inside rather than trying to step outside his defender. Looks like a bit of confidence has gone.

He also threw two or three terrible passes that cut moves dead and tried a couple of completely pointless grubbers. Agree he looks to be lacking confidence to take on his man. He seems to be the recipient of a lot of flat passes but that should be great for him as he can use his quick feet with no defender reaction time. Ford looked more comfortable with a bit of muscle to run the ball up but Burrell did drift out of the game during the second half. We know Farrell likes to operate with a 12 who can truck it up as well hence why Te'o is in the squad. Not sure Burrell has done enough to stake a claim for that role.

Is the gulf between the Pro12 and the AP starting to show at test level? There may also be a gulf between the AP and Super16. We will see pretty soon if only failed super rugby players come to the NH.

Just occurred to me - Farrell and Burrell haven't ever played together have they? EDIT: 2014 six nations. Getting my years mixed up.

I'd be looking at something along these lines for the first test:

15. Brown
14. Watson
13. Daly
12. Burrell
11. Nowell
10. Farrell
9. Youngs

1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Clifford
7. Haskell
8. Vunipola

Hard to work out what the midfield should/will be though.

thomh wrote:Jonathan Joseph is a bit of a concern for me. Didn't do anything particularly awful, but he's stopped backing himself on the outside. He keeps receiving these bath-style miss passes and then ducking inside rather than trying to step outside his defender. Looks like a bit of confidence has gone.

Maybe he could take some notes from Clifford - all the fuss about the backwards knock on and not enough about Clifford running all the way around Scott Williams

Locks will be an interesting selection. Launchbury looked back to his old self, and lawes had his best game in an awfully long time.

We have a number of genuinely top class locks that would get into most international sides.

And Jones playing a little bit of Man management saying ford was outstanding....

GeordieFalcon wrote:And Jones playing a little bit of Man management saying ford was outstanding....

Fords running play might of been outstanding,. But his kicking game was pathetic for an international 10.

I thought alot of his game was poor. As was Joseph. Burrell did the job Teo can.  Nothing special.  

Harrison didn't really take advantage of the opportunity as I thought he would. Clifford probably did more and haskell didn't appear to do alot but I'd need to watch the game again, he might have been working his socks off

Robshaws position is probably safe for the first test.

thomh wrote:
12. Burrell

Last I knew, Luther was in the Saxons touring party. I know Manu has yet to be replaced, but with Te'o, slade, Daly & Joseph they do not need to do a lfl replacement.

LondonTiger wrote:

thomh wrote:
12. Burrell

Last I knew, Luther was in the Saxons touring party. I know Manu has yet to be replaced, but with Te'o, slade, Daly & Joseph they do not need to do a lfl replacement.

I thought Te'o had replaced Manu.

I'd guess Haskell had a quiet game because Wales didn't give him much to do

I think that this was a good example of how much Eddie wants strength in depth and to create a collective mental attitude where if the team are behind they can rally and win. 5 tries against a good on paper Wales side is not an easy task at any time of year, but at the end of a hard season with half a dozen 1st teamers out and a bunch of new boys stating their cases it's impressive.

I was impressed with Clifford today - regardless of whether there was a knock-on or not, he took his score brilliantly and showed great pace to out-sprint a proven international centre - not easy. Genge looked half-decent and it was nice to see Tommy Taylor come on too. I remain unconvinced by Kvesic but Harrison made a nuisance of himself and Mullan was solid. I think Burrell has done enough to make it on the tour but boy does Ford need to work on his kicking. 8 points from the tries alone went begging, which is unacceptable. I wonder whether Cipriani would have missed as many... Still, everyone came through unscathed and it was a good result. Well done chaps.

LT if Te'o doesn't measure up or gets injured we are looking light in terms of muscle in the centres. At times during the six nations we struggled for impact in the midfield and against what could be a monster midfield pairing for Australia we might struggle with Slade and either Daly or Joseph.

Clifford made a point of making lots of carries. He always made yards. That could be vital in taking the whole duty off Billy.

LondonTiger wrote:

thomh wrote:
12. Burrell

Last I knew, Luther was in the Saxons touring party. I know Manu has yet to be replaced, but with Te'o, slade, Daly & Joseph they do not need to do a lfl replacement.

Jones quoted after today as saying Burrell will probably go to Aus.

Clifford's ball control at the scrum was good too

Got to say he had a far better game then i expected, really pleased with how good he was.

He dropped the ball a couple of times and missed a bad tackle but very good other than that.

lostinwales wrote:

Fanster wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:I've had to turn it off because wales were annoying me so much.  Poor skills and getting round the ref like that.  I hope Biggar and alun wyn are banned for a game for that but they won't be.  No room for that at all

But you know what will happen. That decision will be blamed assuming Wales lose from here and the fact that they seem to have been overrun for most of the game will be ignored

Come on, stop being childish, it was a decision thats contraversial, only seen by one camera angle, in which the player involved was convinced (as were the 29 others) it was knocked on into Biggar, they rowed for about 15 seconds, which we see every week by all teams.

Not being childish. It's a serious comment. And its not about the guys on the pitch either. I haven't seen the incident so can't comment on it until I do. It is more about the Welsh media and the spin that will be put on this.

Read this yet Fanster
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-defends-dan-biggar-11401373

To be fair WoL are not blaming that incident at all. Gatland I am not so sure

lostinwales wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Fanster wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:I've had to turn it off because wales were annoying me so much.  Poor skills and getting round the ref like that.  I hope Biggar and alun wyn are banned for a game for that but they won't be.  No room for that at all

But you know what will happen. That decision will be blamed assuming Wales lose from here and the fact that they seem to have been overrun for most of the game will be ignored

Come on, stop being childish, it was a decision thats contraversial, only seen by one camera angle, in which the player involved was convinced (as were the 29 others) it was knocked on into Biggar, they rowed for about 15 seconds, which we see every week by all teams.

Not being childish. It's a serious comment. And its not about the guys on the pitch either. I haven't seen the incident so can't comment on it until I do. It is more about the Welsh media and the spin that will be put on this.

Read this yet Fanster
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-defends-dan-biggar-11401373

To be fair WoL are not blaming that incident at all. Gatland I am not so sure

Is this article written by Dodger's todger?

Gatland said

“But there’s nothing wrong with a player remonstrating at what he thinks was a pretty important decision and showing a bit of passion."

Yes there is.

Well I think EJ has done a cracking job with the forwards, but I'm still worried about the backs.

Ford was terrible - I think he crumbled under pressure and shouldn't tour. His game had regressed to the point where he was kicking everything away when he had potential overlaps outside him, and his goal-kicking was unacceptable at any level. Cipriani could do a better job than that, but EJ never has a good word to say about him.

Joseph was poor as well. But then Ford and Joseph have been consistently poor all season in all forms of rugby. If Devoto and Daly had come on after 50 minutes then I think we'd have had another couple of tries. I was quite impressed with Yarde though.

I thought the pack here great - the lineout was world class, and the scrum is back. We have so many options. I thought Harrison was good, Clifford better and Launchbury fantastic.

EJ is doing a fantastic job selecting the forwards, the backs have a decent shape but he keeps selecting backs based on reputation rather than form. Get Farrell, Daly and Goode into that side and we'll be far better even if we don't solve the 12 issue this summer.

majesticimperialman wrote:To be honest i actually thought Wales would get revenge today and win well against England.


Wales did start well then dropped off the pace of the game. To come out in the second half and not score a single point, is rather shocking in you are a Welsh fan, but if you are a English fan like me then you will say it is down to good English defence.

Well you'd be very wrong (shock). It was down to total ineptitude in attack from Wales.

Welly wrote: You can see why Eddie likes Genge, comes on for his England debut chewing gum..

Thought that was very stupid. You see players starting to swallow their tongue sometimes and he is putting himself at further choking risk.

Given what EJ has said about Ford it does seem very likely that he will use the Ford/Farrell combination at 10/12 in the First Test. You have to also suspect that Joseph will be the 13.

EJ speaks of how some players have been handed caps too easily, and I do wonder if this is part of the reason he's so reluctant to make changes in the backs. If so then it has gone too far.

Despite my moaning, it's looking like a pretty good few years coming up for English rugby.

It's a real shame Slade had such a poor final as he would potentially (outside chance) have put his hand up for 12 with Farrell moving to 10.

I can't see that being an option now. On the plus side Faz coming in at 12 will ease pressure on Ford & organise the back line defensively which will be essential on tour.

As a Wales supporter for 60 years, I well remember that, when Wales toured Down Under for the first time in 1969, they went out full of hope as Five Nations champions with some great young players including Gareth Edwards and Barry John.

They beat Australia but were smashed in both tests against the All Blacks. It was reported that many New Zealand fans thought Wales were the worst touring side they'd seen and were disappointed after all the pre-tour hype.

Since then things have gone from bad to worse against New Zealand. Wales's best hope on this tour, though only for the first test match, is that a) they play out of their skins and b) New Zealand are complacent about the opposition.

Youngs was desperately poor. No one seems to mention that he was at the heart of everything that England did badly. Why does he continually slowly pass the ball an allow the opposition defence to come on.

optimist wrote:As a Wales supporter for 60 years, I well remember that, when Wales toured Down Under for the first time in 1969, they went out full of hope as Five Nations champions with some great young players including Gareth Edwards and Barry John.

They beat Australia but were smashed in both tests against the All Blacks. It was reported that many New Zealand fans thought Wales were the worst touring side they'd seen and were disappointed after all the pre-tour hype.

Since then things have gone from bad to worse against New Zealand. Wales's best hope on this tour, though only for the first test match, is that a) they play out of their skins and b) New Zealand are complacent about the opposition.

It's a few years since Wales played out of their skins and I've never seen a complacent NZ team. England on the other hand have an excellent chance of a series win in Australia. The mid-field is still not working, but imagine a back five of Kruis, Launchbury, Itoji (6) Vunipola (8) and a good 7, maybe Clifford. That would be a test for the Aussies.

offload wrote:

It's a few years since Wales played out of their skins and I've never seen a complacent NZ team.

Pool stages of the last World Cup? Playing with the hand-brake on in some games.