Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

Having concerns about EU immigration does not make you a far right nutter or xenophobe. Mclaren, what is your knowledge on EU immigration, what dealings do you have with it? Can you see why people may have concerns about it?

Unless your concerns about how we can offer a more humane immigration system then you are xenophobe.  If you are worried about the geographical location of where someone popped out of a uterus then you are not thinking rationally.

And no, I cannot see why anyone would have any issue with the current levels of immigration to/from the UK.  Unless as I said above you are worried about how some people coming here are treated.

Do you not agree that an expanding population due to EU immigration, would lead to an extra burden on the NHS, housing, benefit and other public services aswell as the rise in rents?

Do you think that EU immigration, where people get fake payslips in order to claim benefits, working tax credits child tax credits and housing assistance? Or people that work minimal hours and tdo not pay any tax or nino who then can claim housing and benefit assistance? Or people that illegally overstay in the country, in order to achieve a loophole and gain housing or benefit assistance.

All of these are ongoing issues, though you did not answer my question in the first place.

[navyblueshorts]

BBC interview about islamophobia interupted by islamophobia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37109216


But what I find interesting is the guys response.

We're losing our right to freedom of expression. We are. We're being told to be politically correct when we don't want to be politically correct.

Terrible sentiment but I almost admire this guys honesty.  Rarely do those bemoaning political correctness have the guts to admit that actually they want the right to be as bigoted or racist as they would like to be.

Are you suggesting they shouldn't be able to spout this sort of nonsense?

[McLaren]

Navy

I am suggesting that when people claim to be anti PC what they really mean is that they wish PC didn't stop them from making discriminatory comments.


(I have said many times that PC only exists because not everyone can be trusted to use appropriate language when talking about certain groups of people. A common misunderstanding is that PC is a form of censorship, but it is actually like a guide for deciding if some phrases or terms are discriminatory. People confuse breaking cultural/social taboo's with being anti PC, but this is a confusion. Continuing to be sexist or racist isn't breaking any taboo that needs challenged.)

[pedro]

There is an obvious overlap btw PC and censorship. Think you're being PC if you argue otherwise.

[JAS]

Navy

I am suggesting that when people claim to be anti PC what they really mean is that they wish PC didn't stop them from making discriminatory comments.


(I have said many times that PC only exists because not everyone can be trusted to use appropriate language when talking about certain groups of people.  A common misunderstanding is that PC is a form of censorship, but it is actually like a guide for deciding if some phrases or terms are discriminatory.  People confuse breaking cultural/social taboo's with being anti PC, but this is a confusion.  Continuing to be sexist or racist isn't breaking any taboo that needs challenged.)

You mean things like calling the Police "pigs" just to think of a random example?

[JAS]

So...what's the view on this one...Large pro Palestinian/anti Israeli protest by Celtic fans in last nights Champions league qualifier. Celtic were threatened by UEFA not to let their fans engage in such activity.

Was the protest wrong/inappropriate (in the context of a football match)?
Were UEFA heavy handed in trying to ban it?

[McLaren]

JAS, it's not like anyone would have been watching the match. Would have had more coverage if you staged a protest at the tiddly winks world cup.


Anyway no surprise that a bunch of Catholics aren't the biggest fans of the Jews.

[McLaren]

You mean things like calling the Police "pigs" just to think of a random example?

Not sure this would be covered by PC, as it isn't like the police are a discriminated sector of society. I agree it reflects poorly on the person using the phrase and isn't a very helpful phrase to use but actually not sure if it would be covered by PC. My initial thoughts are that it isn't non PC to call a cop a pig but it does make you seem like a arse.

[beninho]

So...what's the view on this one...Large pro Palestinian/anti Israeli protest by Celtic fans in last nights Champions league qualifier. Celtic were threatened by UEFA not to let their fans engage in such activity.

Was the protest wrong/inappropriate (in the context of a football match)?
Were UEFA heavy handed in trying to ban it?

An anti Israeli protest, when playing an Israeli club. Its wrong, pure and simple. Could even be bordering on anti semitism, which may be a hate crime.

Football and politics should not mix.

[JAS]

JAS, it's not like anyone would have been watching the match.  Would have had more coverage if you staged a protest at the tiddly winks world cup.


Anyway no surprise that a bunch of Catholics aren't the biggest fans of the Jews.

I certainly wouldn't have been interested in watching it but there were 52500 at the match Mac, not a clue how many would have watched it on Skysports but as a Champions League qualifier it would have drawn a reasonable audience from the people who just watch football for footballs sake.

In the 2nd statement you're stereotyping all Celtic fans as Catholics, not accurate and why bring their religion into it?

I just found it a bit rich and double standardish coming from a club that pretends to be so offended by religious/sectarian chanting. Not so long ago they instigated a UEFA witch hunt against their rivals for inappropriate songs & chants making metaphorical references to 300 year old events. Now they seem to think it's ok to indulge in such activity if its a cause they think worthy.

[JAS]

So...what's the view on this one...Large pro Palestinian/anti Israeli protest by Celtic fans in last nights Champions league qualifier. Celtic were threatened by UEFA not to let their fans engage in such activity.

Was the protest wrong/inappropriate (in the context of a football match)?
Were UEFA heavy handed in trying to ban it?

An anti Israeli protest, when playing an Israeli club. Its wrong, pure and simple. Could even be bordering on anti semitism, which may be a hate crime.

Football and politics should not mix.

Spot on Beninho, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the Israeli/Palestinian situation it's got eff all to do with a football match and given football's history of crowd trouble, not big & not clever...Shudder to think of the reception they'll get at the away leg and it'll be their own fault.

[McLaren]

JAS, sorry was just messing as I thought you were a Celtic fan.

[JAS]

JAS, sorry was just messing as I thought you were a Celtic fan.

Goodness me, what ever made you think that??

[beninho]

So...what's the view on this one...Large pro Palestinian/anti Israeli protest by Celtic fans in last nights Champions league qualifier. Celtic were threatened by UEFA not to let their fans engage in such activity.

Was the protest wrong/inappropriate (in the context of a football match)?
Were UEFA heavy handed in trying to ban it?

An anti Israeli protest, when playing an Israeli club. Its wrong, pure and simple. Could even be bordering on anti semitism, which may be a hate crime.

Football and politics should not mix.

Spot on Beninho, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the Israeli/Palestinian situation it's got eff all to do with a football match and given football's history of crowd trouble, not big & not clever...Shudder to think of the reception they'll get at the away leg and it'll be their own fault.

Just imagine the response if they come up against an anti catholic protest, apart from the usual Old Firm hullabaloo.

[McLaren]

JAS, sorry was just messing as I thought you were a Celtic fan.

Goodness me, what ever made you think that??

Not sure.

[McLaren]

Although at least you are not a Rangers fan.

[pedro]

Anyway no surprise that a bunch of Catholics aren't the biggest fans of the Jews.

Aren't you revealing your true colors by making yet another black / fried chicken analogy here? I mean Celtic are playing an Israeli team, not a Jewish team.

[McLaren]

Pedro, really?

[McLaren]

I was never convinced by the self protection argument for gun ownership but after viewing this I think I would be in favour of gun ownership if it meant I could put a cap in the ass of any scallywag stealing my clubs.

Brave "cop" heroically pulls gun on golf club thief:

#guns4golfers

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I am suggesting that when people claim to be anti PC what they really mean is that they wish PC didn't stop them from making discriminatory comments.


(I have said many times that PC only exists because not everyone can be trusted to use appropriate language when talking about certain groups of people.  A common misunderstanding is that PC is a form of censorship, but it is actually like a guide for deciding if some phrases or terms are discriminatory.  People confuse breaking cultural/social taboo's with being anti PC, but this is a confusion.  Continuing to be sexist or racist isn't breaking any taboo that needs challenged.)

That's fine. I'd be much happier if the PC Brigade did as you say and didn't jump up and down shouting "He's/She's a racist!" etc. Personally, I think stopping people spouting their hate just avoids the issue, won't change anything and will just entrench views. Far better to discuss it in the open and highlight how bad/daft it is.

[navyblueshorts]

So...what's the view on this one...Large pro Palestinian/anti Israeli protest by Celtic fans in last nights Champions league qualifier. Celtic were threatened by UEFA not to let their fans engage in such activity.

Was the protest wrong/inappropriate (in the context of a football match)?
Were UEFA heavy handed in trying to ban it?

An anti Israeli protest, when playing an Israeli club. Its wrong, pure and simple. Could even be bordering on anti semitism, which may be a hate crime.

Football and politics should not mix.

I disagree entirely. I can see why UEFA would rather it didn't go on, but then UEFA are pathetic. I guess I could see a safety issue, given football 'fans' history re. fighting on the terraces/pitch/cities. As for sport and politics not mixing, that's a very weak refrain and I don't agree at all. If not for the politicising of rugby and cricket in South Africa, I'm not sure the apartheid regime would have collapsed as soon as it did.

I am also fed up to the back teeth with the willful conflation of anti-Israel with anti-Semiticism. Dodgy ground to be sure and requiring some considered thought. I'm sure it gives anti-Semites an easy way to hide their views, but to complain about criticism of Israel and many of its policies re. Palestinians as some sort of default anti-Semitic behaviour is nonsense and just perpetuates Israel's disgusting behaviour.

[navyblueshorts]

I was never convinced by the self protection argument for gun ownership but after viewing this I think I would be in favour of gun ownership if it meant I could put a cap in the ass of any scallywag stealing my clubs.

Brave "cop" heroically pulls gun on golf club thief:

#guns4golfers

Christ. What an ar5ehole. I'm glad I don't live there.

[McLaren]

Two West Mercia police officers are under criminal investigation over the death of the former Premier League footballer Dalian Atkinson, who died after he was Tasered three times by police.

The two officers were also being served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said on Thursday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/18/police-officers-investigated-over-dalian-atkinson-taser-death

[pedro]

I am also fed up to the back teeth with the willful conflation of anti-Israel with anti-Semiticism. Dodgy ground to be sure and requiring some considered thought. I'm sure it gives anti-Semites an easy way to hide their views, but to complain about criticism of Israel and many of its policies re. Palestinians as some sort of default anti-Semitic behaviour is nonsense and just perpetuates Israel's disgusting behaviour.

Well it's part of the reason why the guardinaista's and their kin don't take the bullying and persecution of jews, especially by muslims, in W.Europe seriously. It once again just shows their double standards.

[beninho]

Two West Mercia police officers are under criminal investigation over the death of the former Premier League footballer Dalian Atkinson, who died after he was Tasered three times by police.

The two officers were also being served with gross misconduct notices, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said on Thursday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/18/police-officers-investigated-over-dalian-atkinson-taser-death

Be interesting to see the outcome of this. But it muddies the waters of the claims made that he must have brought it on himself, which were made. To be tasered 3 times, seems excessive.

[JAS]

Meanwhile in other news, some of you may remember me mentioning a few months back the progression of our junior section and a 12 year old girl winning one of our big drawn events. Well the young girls dad is Steve Bannon. All of a sudden his twitter account has gone mental because his namesake is now Trump's campaign manager. I've suggested he gets in touch with the Wig and suggest an all expenses paid trip to Trump Turnberry for his inconvenience :-p

[beninho]

That reminds me of when Chris Hoy was getting dogs abuse on twitter from football fans due to the decisions made by Chris Foy.

[super_realist]

Anyway no surprise that a bunch of Catholics aren't the biggest fans of the Jews.

Aren't you revealing your true colors by making yet another black / fried chicken analogy here? I mean Celtic are playing an Israeli team, not a Jewish team.

Childish and irrelevant as this protest is, no one is saying it's anti-jewish are they? The issue of Israeli occupation is surely the issue isn't it? Not that it's business of any of the ignorant, bog trotting idiots who support either half of the moronic,  tiny, irrelevant, living in the distant past,  old firm clubs

As for Catholics, or rather the Catholic Church not being fond of jews, that's well documented throughout history.

[BlueCoverman]

Now don't you go spoiling our good start to the season today kwini...

[kwinigolfer]

I doubt we'll do anything to disturb your steady bounce-back, Blue. Ray Crawford will be torn today though.
Perhaps we'll wake up in September . . . . . . .

[kwinigolfer]

Sorry Blue, Every squirrel . . . . etc.
16,000 faithful get something to shout about at last.

[pedro]

Apparently he was playing behind Kevin Na
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/grill-room/slow-play-leads-stabbing-course-utah/

[kwinigolfer]

 

Probably a tourist, an American would have shot the bah stard.

[McLaren]

I have seen guys shouting right in each others faces on the course but never actually seen a punch thrown (or a knifing as mentioned above).

What is the worst fight you have seen on the course or in the house?

[super_realist]

I was asked if I wanted a fight once Mac, after an alky joined our club and I was drawn with him.
He's nearly dead though, so never mind.

[MontysMerkin]

I was asked if I wanted a fight once Mac, after an alky joined our club and I was drawn with to him.
He's nearly dead though, so never mind.  

[kwinigolfer]

I thought this was pretty funny:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37157478

Wouldn't have happened if Drumpf had built his wall . . . . . . .

[navyblueshorts]

I thought this was pretty funny:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37157478

Wouldn't have happened if Drumpf had built his wall . . . . . . .

May be that they were getting out on purpose?

[pedro]

I thought this was pretty funny:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37157478

Wouldn't have happened if Drumpf had built his wall . . . . . . .

May be that they were getting out on purpose?

if this was post-Trump-being-elected I'm sure kwini would have been among them then..

[kwinigolfer]

[super_realist]

Mac, What do you think about your hero Corbyn apparently lying about not being able to find a seat on a train making lame excuses about "bags" being on them instead of asking the person to move them, and do you think returning trains to public ownership will make them better bearing in mind how terrible they were in the BR days?

Bet if Corbyn had been a Tory instead you would have been asking them to resign for being dishonest.

[McLaren]

Super

Again the critical/skeptical thinking that you claim to use has broken down.  The CCTV footage is rough at best and shows;

A not exactly empty train.




And a picture where it appears most of the seats left are reserved





But crucially this is an exercise orchestrated by Richard Branson to ensure the reputation of a politician who favors public rail ownership is damaged.  Do you really want to be taken in by that?

As for the trains I don't care who owns them as long as they are cheap and have many punctual services. But obviously ideologically I like the idea of publicly owned services.

(PS: I am no corbyn fan and will to continue you to vote green)

[Davie]

In that first picture I see 24(?) seats and as far as I can tell, there are 5 (maybe 6) people using them

[I'm never wrong]

But crucially this is an exercise orchestrated by Richard Branson to ensure the reputation of a politician who favors public rail ownership is damaged.  

No it's not. It's a business man protecting the interests of the company that bears his brand. There is an apparent difference of what was reported and the actuality. He will jump on that. He is very sharp on publicity.

[McLaren]

Davie

Maybe there are dwarfs or children in the seats?

[raycastleunited]

Richard Branson couldn't care less about the profitability . He's in his 70's now, just doesn't like people taking the pi$$.

[raycastleunited]

I was asked if I wanted a fight once Mac, after an alky joined our club and I was drawn with him.
He's nearly dead though, so never mind.  

Isn't that just a normal day in Scotland?

[navyblueshorts]

Super

Again the critical/skeptical thinking that you claim to use has broken down.  The CCTV footage is rough at best and shows;

A not exactly empty train.




And a picture where it appears most of the seats left are reserved





But crucially this is an exercise orchestrated by Richard Branson to ensure the reputation of a politician who favors public rail ownership is damaged.  Do you really want to be taken in by that?

As for the trains I don't care who owns them as long as they are cheap and have many punctual services.  But obviously ideologically I like the idea of publicly owned services.

(PS: I am no corbyn fan and will to continue you to vote green)

It's Corbyn being a complete A-hole, or one of his campaign team being an A-hole, which, if Corbyn went along with the idiotic idea, means he's definitely an A-hole. What's worse is he's been proven to be a liar. I know everyone thinks politicians are lairs, but it's unusual for them to be proven to be, beyond all reasonable doubt.
The Tories must be in hysterics (am I allowed to use that term, or is it banned by the PC Police these days?)...

[pedro]

If Corbyn came walking down the aisle I’d probably also put a bag on the empty seat next to me…

[McLaren]

Oh dear, I bet you yanks thought it couldn't get any worse. But then Farage appears

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938

[super_realist]

Ha ha ha, Mac, you are unbelievable.

Did you not hear the excuses from Corbyn?

"There were bags on the seats"

Well effing ask the person to move them, secondly, you could ask someone nicely to move seat to one of the many other spares so he and his wife could sit together if he absolutely couldn't stand separation, one thing he didn't have to do was sit on the ground like a petulant child.

He was also asked if he wanted seats in First Class (he gets expenses, so why not?)

This is a wretched man who is always getting in the papers for the wrong reasons.

Do you not think Virgin could simply look at their computers to see how many seats were not reserved?

Now we're hearing from the Corbyn camp that the seats were occupied by small people or children so couldn't be seen on CCtV, what a to$$er. He's a disgrace of a man and a dreadful politician, he's been caught out, and him and his spin doctor have dropped yet another clanger here.

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