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Frampton v Santa Cruz

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Frampton v Santa Cruz - Page 3 Empty Frampton v Santa Cruz

Post by rodders on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 10:03 am

First topic message reminder :

This one seems to be slipping under the radar a bit.

I haven't watched a lot of Santa Cruz but given his record, the weight jump and how Carl's previous US fight went this would look to be by far the biggest and hardest fight of his career.

What are people's thoughts on how this will go?

Can Frampton keep out of range and pick off a points win in New York or will the step to FW and class be too much?

Has he got enough power to trouble LSC?
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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 6:32 pm

I guess so.

Yeah he can defend against a gimme. Perhaps a fight against fringe top 10 rated fighter in Belfast. Maybe fight in December.

He has plenty of options next year.

Just watched the fight again. 115-113 Frampton. Very close fight. Definitely warrants a rematch.

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 7:50 pm

Pedro147 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Against Gonzalez he did seem to fade a bit more than usual in the later rounds, like I said before the fight I put that down to the weight cut getting harder so fancied him to be able to go the distance last night, though he did seem to slow about the 10th round then went for it a bit in the last round

The big power shots he went for early on I think took a bit out of him too last night

LSC style is stamina consuming for his opponents so his conditioning was spot on for me.

He just had enough in the tank, just think he went with heavy hands a bit too often early on and made it more difficult later on. LSC was never going to be a guy he stopped early so those shots and that energy could have made life easier late on

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Post by catchweight on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 10:42 pm

Frampton must be in with a decent shout of winning fighter of the year. I wonder will the McGuigans line up another top name before the year is out or else look to go for a home defence against a safer name. I think they are doing a terrific job with his career.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 10:49 pm

Really really pleased that Frampton pulled it off, haven't yet watched the fight so can't really comment on his performance.

Going forward Selby and Russell Jnr rather than a rematch would be my preference; the former would in my opinion cause him all the problems that Santa Cruz would have done and a lot more. The pair of them are technically on a different level so for a change Frampton wouldn't automatically be the better boxer, we know he can shut down high output guys but can he do that against better boxers too.

On a side note, must go down as second only to McGuigan's win over Pedroza as far as Irish boxing goes, well on the way to be considered a 'British' great.

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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 10:58 pm

I think he is p4p the best in the UK now. There are others that have a claim, but Frampton has had a great year thus far.

Hammer when you get a chance, watch the fight. You will want a rematch. Was very entertaining. Both guys fought hard.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:16 pm

He's definitely in the argument to be the P4P number in the UK, could be anyone of Frampton, Brook, Selby, Degale or the criminally under rated Jamie McDonnell.

I'm generally not one for rematches, much prefer to see an entirely new style match up than something i've seen before.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:30 pm

Got to be honest, when styles gel well and first fight is close I'm all for a rematch if not a trilogy.

With that mentality Hammersmith we would never have got the thriller in Manila, Tunney Greb series etc where Greb won the first etc. Fight it out till one of them gains absolute supremacy I say.

Fortunately this one is too profitable for it not to happen I think.

Would much prefer to see Selby immediately than a gimme defence, but in boxing you rarely get what you want but really good little fight last night the sooner they do it again the better

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 6:49 am

I don't think Frampton will be sticking around long. Wouldn't surprise me if he had five or six more fights then dipped out. McGuigan has moved him very well and will want him to retire wealthy and with his heath intact.

I think they'd like to go for Selby in Belfast before the year is out but I believe LSC has a rematch clause which he can exercise straight away. From all accounts, the clause does allow for an interim fight (for both) but if you're LSC, do you risk Frampton losing to Selby?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 9:39 am

In the rematch clause, do you know if Leo's side can stipulate where the fight is held or does the winner automatically have that right?

Of Selby it is interesting to see that plenty who previously picked him to beat Frampton have now switched like our own Adam and are saying Carl beats him.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 10:13 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:In the rematch clause, do you know if Leo's side can stipulate where the fight is held or does the winner automatically have that right?

Of Selby it is interesting to see that plenty who previously picked him to beat Frampton have now switched like our own Adam and are saying Carl beats him.

I still wouldn't put a substantial amount on Frampton v Selby. Selby is quite slippery and is technically sound.

I just think Frampton seems to raise his game when it matters. To be fair I'm a huge Frampton fan, so I am going to be a tad biased.

I have no problem with anyone giving Selby the edge.

I am very disappointed in myself, for not having for faith in Frampton. Everyone says you're only as good as your last fight. Perhaps I was judging to much on Framps last couple of fights. I thought he had lost something.

I was wrong and I'm very glad to be wrong.


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 10:39 am

Selby suffered quite a heavy knockdown in his last fight is that a taste of things to come? Will it have affected his confidence? He rarely likes to sit in the pocket is that the sign of a fighter who doesn't like to get hit?

Maybe Selby a touch faster just not a lot in it but Carl the bigger banger and poses the bigger threat. Selby the reach advantage but that didn't bother Carl Saturday. Carl maybe the more sturdy but Selby might be able to outwork him with his high output. They both enjoy and raise their game on the big occasion. Interesting fight though don't necessarily expect a barn burner. One more for the purist. I think the momentum has shifted in Frampton's favour but not one you could predict with a great deal of confidence, I would have favoured Selby too before last Saturday

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 10:52 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Selby suffered quite a heavy knockdown in his last fight is that a taste of things to come? Will it have affected his confidence? He rarely likes to sit in the pocket is that the sign of a fighter who doesn't like to get hit?

Maybe Selby a touch faster just not a lot in it but Carl the bigger banger and poses the bigger threat. Selby the reach advantage but that didn't bother Carl Saturday. Carl maybe the more sturdy but Selby might be able to outwork him with his high output. They both enjoy and raise their game on the big occasion. Interesting fight though don't necessarily expect a barn burner. One more for the purist. I think the momentum has shifted in Frampton's favour but not one you could predict with a great deal of confidence, I would have favoured Selby too before last Saturday

Yep I agree fully. I think it's a fight that needs to happen. Santa Cruz deserves his rematch first and I think it should be in Belfast.

He should fight a softer option, then rematch Santa Cruz. If he and Selby are still unbeaten, that's a big fight for the summer.

Anthony Joshua vs Fury
Brook v Khan
Frampton v Selby
Quigg vs Jimmy wilde.

Eddie look at that for a ppv card. You could charge £30. I even found a good opponent for Scott Quigg!


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:03 am

Who knows having said all that Frampton Selby could turn into a thriller

I'd also like to see Selby Santa Cruz

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:06 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Who knows having said all that Frampton Selby could turn into a thriller

I'd also like to see Selby Santa Cruz

There are plenty of options in the division. Quigg should win another belt at SB, then vacate and join the party at feather!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:06 am

That's some card you put together there Adam all fifty fifties except Brook Khan, though of course Wilde beats Framps Selby and Scotty boy on the same night

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:07 am

If they dug up Wilde, he would probably at least manage a draw with Quigg. Especially if Quigg used the same tactics as the Framp fight.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:16 am

Attempting to apply pressure on Frampton and doing it are two different things so although Quigg's tactics have been heavily criticised they weren't that bad. Why risk walking onto something massive early on, better to wait till some of the snap has gone. But yeah should have upped it a couple of rounds before he did

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:33 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:In the rematch clause, do you know if Leo's side can stipulate where the fight is held or does the winner automatically have that right?

Of Selby it is interesting to see that plenty who previously picked him to beat Frampton have now switched like our own Adam and are saying Carl beats him.

I'm not sure about the intricacies but you'd imagine Frampton would have good leverage due to the fact he fought the first one in the US and they'd sell a huge amount of tickets in Belfast (it would fill a stadium there - only did 9k in NY).

I always liked Frampton over Selby - the Welshman is easy to hit.

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:39 am

AdamT wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:In the rematch clause, do you know if Leo's side can stipulate where the fight is held or does the winner automatically have that right?

Of Selby it is interesting to see that plenty who previously picked him to beat Frampton have now switched like our own Adam and are saying Carl beats him.

I still wouldn't put a substantial amount on Frampton v Selby. Selby is quite slippery and is technically sound.

I just think Frampton seems to raise his game when it matters. To be fair I'm a huge Frampton fan, so I am going to be a tad biased.

I have no problem with anyone giving Selby the edge.

I am very disappointed in myself, for not having for faith in Frampton. Everyone says you're only as good as your last fight. Perhaps I was judging to much on Framps last couple of fights. I thought he had lost something.

I was wrong and I'm very glad to be wrong.


To be fair Adam - he probably had lost something in those last couple of fights. The weight appeared to have sapped his stamina.

It was a bit of a leap of faith to hope the extra weight would benefit him. Not all fighters can move up a weight and be as effective (I know this was only four pounds).

But yes, with you there. If you know a fighter's a bit special, stick with him!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:41 am

Shane Mcquigan in with a shout for trainer of the year?

Done a great job with Frampton and Groves looks to have come back to something approaching his former self regained some of his confidence

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:44 am

hazharrison wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:In the rematch clause, do you know if Leo's side can stipulate where the fight is held or does the winner automatically have that right?

Of Selby it is interesting to see that plenty who previously picked him to beat Frampton have now switched like our own Adam and are saying Carl beats him.

I'm not sure about the intricacies but you'd imagine Frampton would have good leverage due to the fact he fought the first one in the US and they'd sell a huge amount of tickets in Belfast (it would fill a stadium there - only did 9k in NY).

I always liked Frampton over Selby - the Welshman is easy to hit.  

Windsor Park or Ravenhill both hold about 18k and the Titanic did 16k for the second Martinez fight but you lose out of a big chunk of the US market if that happen as its not US primetime for tv etc

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:46 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Shane Mcquigan in with a shout for trainer of the year?

Done a great job with Frampton and Groves looks to have come back to something approaching his former self regained some of his confidence

He had Conrad Cummings on the undercard on Saturday night and he seems to be turning into a decent fighter too

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:51 am

If I was team Frampton I'd be tempted to take a pay cut and have Santa Cruz in Ireland but if it makes more sense in LA then you can't turn down the money can you

I just think it would be a great occasion in Ireland bringing a big Mexican fighter over and I think it would be a more exciting fight in Ireland

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 11:56 am

I agree, if it was in Belfast I'd be there but it would come down to Al Haymon though which makes me think its unlikely

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:01 pm

Fuc£ that cherry picking cont Al Haymon

Whatever they do if they go to the states just make sure it's not in LA

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:03 pm

I know Frampton prides himself being an Ulsterman and all, but why not take the fight to Dublin? Southern fans would definitely get behind him and I think He could sell 40,000 plus no problem.

I guess though he is loyal to his Belfast fans and will probably fight at Windsor. Either way, I will try and get a ticket. Frampton fights have an amazing atmosphere.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:05 pm

I must say the fight in Dublin really appeals to me

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:09 pm

You'd be looking at the RDS in Dublin for 40k but you get into licensing etc then, which could complicate matters.

At Windsor or Ravenhill you could add more on to 18k as I forgot you would have a few thousand more on the pitch

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:16 pm

20,000 at Windsor/ravenhill would be good.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:21 pm

Be awesome in front of 40,000 though

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:24 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Be awesome in front of 40,000 though

I agree. I would be happy for him to take the fight to the mainland. Plenty of stadiums in Britain that could accommodate him.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:27 pm

Pity Stormont have made a pigs ear of Casement that would have come in use for it

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Post by Guest on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:29 pm

First defence - Josh Warrington and then we can be rid of this over-hyped frigstick once and for all.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:31 pm

That's a thought have it in England or even Wales but it's Dublin for me or Belfast

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:43 pm

DAVE667 wrote:First defence - Josh Warrington and then we can be rid of this over-hyped frigstick once and for all.

Yes please, any of the top British guys would do a real number on him.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 1:39 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:First defence - Josh Warrington and then we can be rid of this over-hyped frigstick once and for all.

Yes please, any of the top British guys would do a real number on him.

Sure it'll never happen, Fast Eddie will say Frampton wanted too much money because he was running scared and Warrington will end up fighting Boxcar Joe and be proclaimed a contender

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Post by Guest on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 1:45 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:First defence - Josh Warrington and then we can be rid of this over-hyped frigstick once and for all.

Yes please, any of the top British guys would do a real number on him.

Sure it'll never happen, Fast Eddie will say Frampton wanted too much money because he was running scared and Warrington will end up fighting Boxcar Joe and be proclaimed a contender
I simply don't see it. It's like the bad old days in the early 00's when we had the likes of Tony Oakey calling himself the best LH on the planet and suggesting that Roy Jones Jr was running scared.

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:32 pm

If you're going to hate a boxer, there are way more qualified candidates than Josh Warrington (humble kid making the most of what he's got and selling out arenas).

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Post by Guest on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:36 pm

hazharrison wrote:If you're going to hate a boxer, there are way more qualified candidates than Josh Warrington (humble kid making the most of what he's got and selling out arenas).
What he's got is the square root of sweet f*ck all in a box with a ribbon on it. He's got 5 stoppages in 19 fights and his opposition should theoretically get harder from this point on. All things being equal he should be fighting at the Leeds Arena...with the guy who overcharged him for two hotdogs

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Post by rodders on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:48 pm

Hells bells, not only did I decide to skip signing up to box nation, I didn't stick a tenner on Carl at 10/1. Didn't expect that result at all.

Fantastic performance. Hopefully some big fights to come in Belfast now.
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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:50 pm

What about that muppet Kid Galahad. He was always harping on about beating Quigg and Frampton on the same night.

I would love to see Framps do a number on him.

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Post by Guest on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:52 pm

AdamT wrote:What about that muppet Kid Galahad. He was always harping on about beating Quigg and Frampton on the same night.

I would love to see Framps do a number on him.
No, Warrington to be disposed of first then he can fight whoever he wants

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:52 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:If you're going to hate a boxer, there are way more qualified candidates than Josh Warrington (humble kid making the most of what he's got and selling out arenas).
What he's got is the square root of sweet f*ck all in a box with a ribbon on it. He's got 5 stoppages in 19 fights and his opposition should theoretically get harder from this point on. All things being equal he should be fighting at the Leeds Arena...with the guy who overcharged him for two hotdogs

So what if he doesn't have a big punch - he's exciting enough to watch. Wayne McCullough didn't have a big punch either and I loved watching him back in the day.

Ok, Saturday was a bit of a soft touch but Warrington's been steadily working his way through the different levels. Jamie McDonnell took a similar route.

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:54 pm

AdamT wrote:What about that muppet Kid Galahad. He was always harping on about beating Quigg and Frampton on the same night.

I would love to see Framps do a number on him.

Frampton is pretty outspoken on PED cheats - no way does he provide Galahad with a payday (if he's not going to fight Rigo for financial reasons, Barry wouldn't even make his radar).

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:55 pm

If they could squeeze in a homecoming fight, they could do a lot worse than Abner Mares.

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Post by Guest on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:57 pm

hazharrison wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:If you're going to hate a boxer, there are way more qualified candidates than Josh Warrington (humble kid making the most of what he's got and selling out arenas).
What he's got is the square root of sweet f*ck all in a box with a ribbon on it. He's got 5 stoppages in 19 fights and his opposition should theoretically get harder from this point on. All things being equal he should be fighting at the Leeds Arena...with the guy who overcharged him for two hotdogs

So what if he doesn't have a big punch - he's exciting enough to watch. Wayne McCullough didn't have a big punch either and I loved watching him back in the day.

Ok, Saturday was a bit of a soft touch but Warrington's been steadily working his way through the different levels. Jamie McDonnell took a similar route.
The Pocket Rocket would have given his left nut for the kind of audiences this knucklehead's getting. I just do not get what people are so excited about

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:01 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:If you're going to hate a boxer, there are way more qualified candidates than Josh Warrington (humble kid making the most of what he's got and selling out arenas).
What he's got is the square root of sweet f*ck all in a box with a ribbon on it. He's got 5 stoppages in 19 fights and his opposition should theoretically get harder from this point on. All things being equal he should be fighting at the Leeds Arena...with the guy who overcharged him for two hotdogs

So what if he doesn't have a big punch - he's exciting enough to watch. Wayne McCullough didn't have a big punch either and I loved watching him back in the day.

Ok, Saturday was a bit of a soft touch but Warrington's been steadily working his way through the different levels. Jamie McDonnell took a similar route.
The Pocket Rocket would have given his left nut for the kind of audiences this knucklehead's getting. I just do not get what people are so excited about

So we're criticising fighters for creating a following these days? Most of the kids jumping about in the cheap seats are either his mates, kids he grew up with or kids he went to Leeds games with. There's also a thirst for sporting success down there due to the ailing fortunes of the football team. He's a popular working class lad who's popular enough to get people to part with their hard-earned cash. That's a good thing in my book. Not easy for fighters slogging round selling tickets to create a bit of a following. He's done ace.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:05 pm

I have no gripe with any fighter doing his best to make a living. Warrington does have a pretty crazy following already.

Maybe Warrington vs Selby??

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:14 pm

AdamT wrote:I have no gripe with any fighter doing his best to make a living. Warrington does have a pretty crazy following already.

Maybe Warrington vs Selby??

Warrington dipped out on that one and so Selby might give him the cold shoulder. Warrington's still improving and so he'd be better off plugging away against fringe world class fighters (in my book).

Be great if Santa Cruz fought Russell and Selby fought Frampton with winners to meet. The good news for Frampton/McGuigan is that those three fights are easy to make as they're all promotionally aligned.

No more being messed about by Eddie.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:18 pm

Selbys still with Hearn, it would depend where the fight was. Selby is looked after Hearn in the UK and Haymon in the US

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