Eng in India

by KP_fan Tue 01 Nov 2016, 6:49 am

First topic message reminder :

England tour of India, 2016-17

Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot

Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam

Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali

Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai

Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune

Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack

Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata

Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur

Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur

Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru

by guildfordbat Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:42 am

alfie wrote:It is good "old fashioned" Test Cricket ; possibly not everyone's taste.

India have responded with character and discipline to England's formidable total : no wickets last night , and after an early shock this morning these two have produced a wonderful exhibition of patient (but far from passive) batting.
And England's bowlers have stuck to their (difficult) task extremely well : if India periodically threatened to run away they managed to regroup and drag the scoring rate back. As a result this game is still very much in the balance.

The danger for England is that this third session might see the batsmen prosper at the expense of tired bowlers. Cook has rotated his bowlers quite well so none have been drained ; but long days in the field do take their toll...

India by contrast could yet see much of their good work undone if they were to suffer a clatter of wickets against the second new ball ; this partnership remains very important.
On balance I think the batting side will be happier with the state of play at the moment. But a couple of quick wickets might change that

During the tea interval, my man Stewart in the UK Sky studio was complimentary about Cook's captaincy and especially how he had rotated the bowlers not allowing Pujara and Vijay to take command of any particular bowler.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 11 Nov 2016, 10:01 am

Ansari not having a good spell here - far too short then over correcting and going down leg

by alfie Fri 11 Nov 2016, 10:03 am

Hard to be too critical of England today , despite the lack of success. For the most part , the bowlers have been steady at worst , toiling away without a lot of help from the surface - and been frustrated by two batsmen playing extremely well , and also getting on the right side of a couple of close decisions. Fielding (Hameed 's drop apart) has been keen and clean ; and as guildford mentions , Cook has handled the attack pretty well.
But it has all come up with nothing ; so right at the moment India are in the ascendancy : still a long way behind , but with so much still in reserve that they must now fancy a lead.
England will need to stay strong else they could come in for some very rough treatment tomorrow ...and conceivably end up having to bat under some pressure on Sunday.

Where is Trebell when you need him ? Smile

by alfie Fri 11 Nov 2016, 10:07 am

And just like that , Stokes gets the break ...

Well judged catch by the skipper clap

Keeping concentration all day at slip in this situation isn't all that easy.

Wonderful innings from Pujara clap

Now : can England enlarge on this breach in the wall ?

by dyrewolfe Fri 11 Nov 2016, 10:25 am

Finally! Stokes with the breakthrough, gets Pujara caught at slip by Cook for 124.

Still meagre returns for all their effort and India still very much in the box seat at 280-2.

by guildfordbat Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:11 am

dyrewolfe wrote:Finally! Stokes with the breakthrough, gets Pujara caught at slip by Cook for 124.

Still meagre returns for all their effort and India still very much in the box seat at 280-2.

Hi dyre - forgive my pedantry but I would say that although India have the potential to be in the box seat, they are not there yet.

Even now at 311/2, they still trail by 220 odd runs. Yes, I wouldn't rule against them overtaking us at all. However, it won't be a piece of cake if we continue to bowl decently and field well.

We could do with a route map for each side from Caledonian Craig. Probably easier to produce one atm for the hosts. Reckon they'll want to have a lead of circa 50 to 70 half-way through the final session tomorrow and then give us an awkward hour to bat out that day followed by the last day wicket hopefully giving help to their spinners.

Extremely hard to see us pulling off a win from here. Just don't see there being enough time left for us to take 10 wickets in the 4th dig. Whatever happens, I'm sure we'll need to bat with as much concentration and application as shown by our bowlers. As long as we do that, we should certainly get the draw. That may seem disappointing after topping 500 in the first innings but it's still much better than many feared before a ball had been bowled.

by alfie Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:23 am

Craig is apparently too busy with the tennis so I will,have a go.

India will want to get around England's score around tea tomorrow : then depending how many wickets they have left it is either keep going , get a significant lead and look at fifth day bowling - or get England back in and hope to play on their nerves that evening.
England will still hope to see off this innings before tea and still over fifty behind , so they can build a lead and conceivably have a go at India in the second half of Sunday...Hard to put figures on this because it remains to be seen how the pitch will behave tomorrow. It would need to break up a lot from its current state to make anything but the draw favorite.

by guildfordbat Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:27 am

Not often, if at all, I would say this but I would have bowled Rashid a bit more today as he comes back for a closing over.

He's always a bit of a loose cannon which is a major part of my concern but we had over 530 on the board and he was actually slightly more economical than our other two spinners. If he's not going to bowl much in those circumstances, when is he?

And with that - he gets Vijay to possibly reawaken England hopes for tomorrow.

by VTR Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:31 am

Two wickets in 4 balls - at the very least this will check the run-rate and could end India's designs on winning

A draw would not be a bad result as a lot of people expected 5-0

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:32 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:A good call from Dharmasena - was sure that LBW was plumb! Vijay can't pick Rashid it seems

Definitely can't pick him! Like Guildford/the commentators I think Rashid should've bowled more today. Getting more out of the pitch then Moeen/Zaf

And then Zaf gets Mishra - good stuff from England to keep going

by dyrewolfe Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:33 am

Well that was unexpected.

Just when you thought there would be no more joy for England, they bag 2 wickets right at the end.

Rashid gets Vijay, caught Hameed for 126. India send Mishra out as nightwatchman and two balls later he's gone for 0, bowled Ansari, caught Hameed.

Have England finally forced the door ajar? Can they capitalise on this tomorrow and get India out for a similar score...or even a handy lead?

India still trailing by 218, with Kohli still playing himself in and a new batsman to come in tomorrow.

by Mad for Chelsea Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:36 am

Well that nightwatchman worked really well Wink

I think England deserved those late wickets, they've stuck to their task well in the face of a difficult wicket to bowl on and an excellent partnership between Pujara and Vijay, have generally kept things tight and under control, and for me the two wickets right at the end are just reward.

I also agree with guildford, Nasser and Botham that Rashid has perhaps been underbowled. I think he's been the best of the England spinners and has caused problems with not too many bad balls either. There's a nagging feeling in me that Cook doesn't quite trust him, the fields he set for him in Bangladesh were at times ridiculous (better ones here to be fair), and he seems to turn to him almost as an afterthought. Hopefully Rashid can knock over a few tomorrow and start to gain more confidence, both in himself and from his captain.

Was a bit disappointed in Ansari, who for me was cut far too often for a left-arm spinner. Had the protection, so didn't result in too much tap, but as a result couldn't really build any pressure. Still, he managed to get a bit of bounce to prise out Mishra, so fair play to him. Excellent catch by Hameed that one BTW.

As for tomorrow, well those two wickets have certainly changed the complexion of the game a bit. Before that it was looking likely that India would get past the England total, or close enough to it, to make them the only side capable of winning the game. Now England could still gain a handy lead, and maybe make use of a deteriorating pitch on day 5. Draw still favourite though.

by alfie Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:01 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well that nightwatchman worked really well

I think England deserved those late wickets, they've stuck to their task well in the face of a difficult wicket to bowl on and an excellent partnership between Pujara and Vijay, have generally kept things tight and under control, and for me the two wickets right at the end are just reward.

I also agree with guildford, Nasser and Botham that Rashid has perhaps been underbowled. I think he's been the best of the England spinners and has caused problems with not too many bad balls either. There's a nagging feeling in me that Cook doesn't quite trust him, the fields he set for him in Bangladesh were at times ridiculous (better ones here to be fair), and he seems to turn to him almost as an afterthought. Hopefully Rashid can knock over a few tomorrow and start to gain more confidence, both in himself and from his captain.

Was a bit disappointed in Ansari, who for me was cut far too often for a left-arm spinner. Had the protection, so didn't result in too much tap, but as a result couldn't really build any pressure. Still, he managed to get a bit of bounce to prise out Mishra, so fair play to him. Excellent catch by Hameed that one BTW.

As for tomorrow, well those two wickets have certainly changed the complexion of the game a bit. Before that it was looking likely that India would get past the England total, or close enough to it, to make them the only side capable of winning the game. Now England could still gain a handy lead, and maybe make use of a deteriorating pitch on day 5. Draw still favourite though.

Agree with all that. Though Ansari did beat a well set Pujara and very nearly claim his wicket in the middle of that barren period... He is still new , think he will improve.
Rashid actually impressed me more today than in any past Test. Thought he was more than worth the one wicket he has so far. And yes , under bowled. Though he will get his chances tomorrow ...and given the way England actually managed to keep India somewhat in check , I am not going to be too critical of the way they have managed their resources.

What will happen ? If England can get one of Kohli or Rahane early tomorrow , they will have a sniff of bowling India out well in arrears - though I am not assuming that will be easy . India , like England , have some handy late order bats.
Not making predictions ; but I am pleased to see that the match remains alive , despite the flat pitch ; even if the draw is indeed the most likely outcome. It hasn't been boring.

by guildfordbat Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:11 pm

Excellent end to the day for England and deserved as well. Bowlers and fielders all stuck at it

My views on nightwatchmen are well rehearsed. Say no more there.

Agree with MfC that Ansari wasn't fully in control of the ball - little bit short and/or wide at times. Early days obviously but Ansari is looking for me like a player with potential to play for England rather than a player ready to play for England.

I still heavily favour the draw. India could win but they're going to need an England batting collapse to get them over the line. Although England are in a decent position now, I don't see there being enough time left for them to take 16 wickets and fit in their own second innings.

by alfie Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:30 pm

Thought you'd be smiling at the fate of the night watchman , guildford Smile

Sixteen wickets for England does seem a bit of a stretch : Just possible if (a) They can somehow dismiss India for around 430 , middle session tomorrow - and then (b) rattle up another 200 before Sunday lunchtime...that would give them two sessions plus to scythe through the hosts with the Spin Triplets Smile

OK , not too likely. But not quite out of the question.

And of course , if India get their batting train rolling again in the morning they might well be able to gather in the England total and have a fairly risk free bash at skittling England when they bat again...

I have certainly known Tests in India and Pakistan that have managed a lot of development over the last two days. But if I were a bookie I'd be keeping the draw at very tight odds.

by msp83 Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:31 pm

OK then, an excellent day in the office for 2 of my most favored players in this Indian side, Cheteshwar Pujara, and Murali Vijay....... Brilliant hundreds from both of them, to calm the nerves after the side lost the plot in the field and gave away 537 first innings runs to England. A touch disappointed that neither of them managed to bat through the day, after it looked like they would still be batting together even into next week at one point! Vijay would be kicking himself for that penultimate over dismissal. Actually I have a feeling Vijay, despite a few runs in the New Zealand series, and this hundred here, hasn't been on top of his game...... He's the kind of batsman who would just not give his wicket away, but ones set, can play some really pleasing shots. He has indeed played some really pleasing shots, but with less frequency than usual, so much so that despite the big hits now and then, he couldn't up the momentum of the innings after lunch....... Nevertheless a fine, fine effort from India's first of first choice opener. Perhaps Virat would give him a bit more confidence, don't think benching him on injury return for the rather pedestrian Shikhar Dhawan in the West Indies has helped his confidence much......

by msp83 Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:33 pm

As for Pujara, fabulous innings at his home ground. And Strike Rate? What Strike Rate!? He was striking them at above 60! And to prove a point, he was at it from the outset! Would be disappointed he got out for 124, ones he goes pass the hundred, he usually turns them big.......

by alfie Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:47 pm

Thought Pujara's innings was a gem. Good to watch even though as an England fan I was desperately willing him to run himself out or something Smile

Vijay a bit mixed : he alternated between stoic defence and bursts of inspired aggression...to be honest I was more hopeful of getting him out than his partner , especially when he faced Rashid. But his innings (and not forgetting the hard work on day two after a couple of days in the field !) was vital for India , facing that big total . I know the pitch is pretty docile ; but had they found themselves two or three down early I think it might have been difficult for them to claw their way back into the contest. Thanks to Vijay and Pujara , they are at least equal after three days.

by msp83 Fri 11 Nov 2016, 1:32 pm

Now as for England, They, as a unit, stuck at their task pretty well, though they have only 4 wickets, including that of the nightwatchman to show for that. However, the job was really done in stopping the runs as such. India managed to add ony 256 runs through the day, despite 2 batsmen getting hundreds, and that massive partnership. They haven't even managed to go pass the follow-on target it should be remembered. And the late strikes in the day mean England are still in with a chance. If they get Rahane or Kohli early tomorrow morning, then there is no specialist batsman to follow. Ashwin has had a good year with bat and ball so far, but in this test the law of averages seemed to have caught up with him. Saha and Jadeja can surely bat, but if the ball is turning and reversing a bit more tomorrow as it should, and if England bowlers manage to retain their discipline, then there could be enough pressure on them...... But if Kohli and Rahane manage to give them a good start, then things could be different.

by msp83 Fri 11 Nov 2016, 1:40 pm

The England seamers bowled pretty well. Broad got that early wicket, and then gave not much away. Woakes was bowling with a lot of intent, and bowled a very hostile spell to Pujara, and it is great credit to the batsman that he managed to see it through. Stokes was not as consistent, but did ask questions every now and then, and got the all important breakthrough.......
As for the spinners, for me Rashid was the pick of them. And Cook, as usual, didn't back him well. Was seriously underbowled, Vijay, for a good player of spin, really wasn't picking him well. Even Gambhir had got into a moment or 2 of trouble against him. And he didn't travel that much either, in fact was more in control than either Ali or Ansari.
As for Ali, not one of his best days. Didn't look like getting a wicket, and didn't surprise with a Jadeja like spell of control either.
Ansari took out Mishra, but hasn't really done anything to change my view that he just doesn't look anything like a frontline test spinner. Doesn't turn it a great deal, doesn't have the immaculate control over line and length, particularly the latter to compensate that. So unless he can bat top 6, can't be the regular spin option even in the subcontinent unless they are playing 3 spinners.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 6:03 am

Ansari and Rashid have bowled nicely and picked up Rahane and Kohli respectively- but Ashwin/Saha have just creeped India closer to parity. England will be hoping to get a lead of around 50-70, which means that it'll take an epic 3rd innings collapse for them to lose!!

Guildford/other Surrey mafia - did you see in Dobell's latest piece that the selectors nearly called up Sam curran for the series?

by msp83 Sat 12 Nov 2016, 6:24 am

So at lunch on day 4, India are 411-6 in their first innings, still behind England by 126. A couple of careless shots from skipper Virat Kohli and Ajinkya Rahane provided England with an early opening. Rahane played terrible shot, playing back to a ball that was not short, and was bowled by Ansari. And then Kohli kicked the stumps while pulling Rashid to depart for 40, just when he was looking for a great deal more. At 361-6, England was in with a serious opening, but Ravichandran Ashwin and Wriddhiman Saha calmed things down with a 50 partnership, and took the side to lunch without any further damage. There is Ravindra Jadeja still to come, and Shami can be a decent slogger on his day. So India would be hoping the last 4 wickets would take them closer to 500 somehow.......

by msp83 Sat 12 Nov 2016, 7:16 am

Ali gets Saha! Just when they were beginning to get into gear, the Ashwin Saha partnership is broken as the latter edges Moeen behind for Bairstow to take an easy catch. Saha goes for 35, India 425-7, still a significant 121 behind. Ravindra Jadeja the last recognized batting option.......

by guildfordbat Sat 12 Nov 2016, 7:27 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Ansari and Rashid have bowled nicely and picked up Rahane and Kohli respectively- but Ashwin/Saha have just creeped India closer to parity. England will be hoping to get a lead of around 50-70, which means that it'll take an epic 3rd innings collapse for them to lose!!

Guildford/other Surrey mafia - did you see in Dobell's latest piece that the selectors nearly called up Sam curran for the series?

Thanks, Olly. Had missed that, just read it now. He's clearly on the England radar and understandably so.

Meanwhile. Moeen has recently bagged Saha and India now move to 434/7. I go even firmer on my comment at the end of play yesterday that there shouldn't be enough time left for us to win. We should though comfortably achieve the draw provided we bat with the same application we've shown throughout this match so far.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:16 am

Embarrassing drop that by Cook - hopefully won't cost us too much...lead is 77 atm....

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:26 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Embarrassing drop that by Cook - hopefully won't cost us too much...lead is 77 atm....

Lead down to 62.....

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:34 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Embarrassing drop that by Cook - hopefully won't cost us too much...lead is 77 atm....

Lead down to 62.....

Now down to 50....

by KP_fan Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:45 am

--Missed the first 3 days due to travel...
look of the score card suggests curator Laid out the Road Strip at Rajkot....instead of the Sand Pit

Perfect start for Eng's tour...get started on an easy pitch, see off Indian bowling, get confidence of runs and time in the middle in the best of batting conditions, having had the luck of toss..

--great response-> by the Indians they batted on a pitch which from flat turned, supportive for the spinners to difficult by the time they will finish

---as it stands now India will finish with a deficit of 49 with 125 overs left in the game....

1)a draw if Eng bat well and to safety first is most likely scenario....

2) an English collapse for a 120dd to really difficult D4/ D5 pitch is also possible

3) that India will collapse chasing 170 odd is not impossible but less likely than Eng collapse

when pitch supports bowlers.....test match cricket gets exciting.

Eng would want to get at least a draw...and India to be careful they don't lose from here
My Gut feeling---> game should produce a result

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:48 am

It's got England all out for 151 written all over it this third innings

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:50 am

India batted really well, and England bowled very well too. Rashid the pick of the spinners in the match so far. Thought Woakes was unlucky not to pickup a wicket too

by guildfordbat Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:56 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Embarrassing drop that by Cook - hopefully won't cost us too much...lead is 77 atm....

Lead down to 62.....

Now down to 50....

My man Stewart referring to Cook's drop and the 29 runs put on for the last wicket as 'huge' for India. Clear he now regards an England win as exceptionally unlikely.

by msp83 Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:59 am

Yes KPF, the road it was....... But there are signs of life on this track now. But Nothing substantial as such. England have had their more than fair share of problems batting in spinning conditins. These are not proper spinning conditions, but there could be the pressure of knowing that a collapse can take the game away from them after all the hardwork so far. But a largely unhappening pitch and a ridiculously long batting lineup would ensure England would bat themselves to safety in this first test.
Yes, the best that tests need are tracks that provide some life for bowlers. Ashwin batted beautifully today, and there was the excitement created by the match situation. Otherwise, I favored watching South Africa v Australia.......

by dyrewolfe Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:18 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:It's got England all out for 151 written all over it this third innings

Are you Trebs in disguise? laughing

Good effort by England to come out of the 1st innings with any kind of lead, given it looked as though India would get 600+ at one point.

Just need to settle down a bat patiently 2nd innings to ensure a draw is the only possible result. Have a feeling if they try to go after the Indian bowlers it could go horribly Pete Tong.

by guildfordbat Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:45 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:India batted really well, and England bowled very well too. Rashid the pick of the spinners in the match so far. Thought Woakes was unlucky not to pickup a wicket too

Woakes and Broad had a combined analysis of 60-15-135-1. Great effort and both deserved a better end column.

by dyrewolfe Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:52 am

At the risk of bringing a jinx down upon England, this is looking like a pretty assured, solid start.

Hameed already matching his first innings score. Cook looking as though he is content to play the anchor role.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:53 am

Opening partnership going along well here - England 53 - 0 and the lead up to just over 100. England can't lose from here. The draw looks a nailed on cert but England have a slim chance (say 10%) of sneaking a win.

by dyrewolfe Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:20 am

It would be nice to think England might try to get a wriggle on now, being effectively 119-0.

Play a ODI innings first session tomorrow with a view to setting India 250-300 to chase in the last 2 sessions.

Just to make tomorrow at least somewhat interesting.

Then again maybe India will be equally happy with a draw and won't try to chase anyway.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:27 am

dyrewolfe wrote:It would be nice to think England might try to get a wriggle on now, being effectively 119-0.

Play a ODI innings first session tomorrow with a view to setting India 250-300 to chase in the last 2 sessions.

Just to make tomorrow at least somewhat interesting.

Then again maybe India will be equally happy with a draw and won't try to chase anyway.

Depends on how the pitch plays tomorrow I think - if it's doing something then have a dart and get them in. If it's playing like it is now just bat all day and grind their bowlers into the ground (especially as it's back to back tests)

by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:36 am

The things England can take from this match though is the form of Hameed - is he finally the opener England have been looking for? Looks like it. Also the spinners have all chipped in as well taking 8 of the 10 first innings wickets and three centuries in their first innings. Lots of positives and it is England calling the shots.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:58 am

First teenager to score a half century for England in 79 years

by dyrewolfe Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:58 am

Congrats Hameed on a well played 50. clap

England up to 92-0 and a lead of 141.

by msp83 Sat 12 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

Its official, stupid road of a track. Pretty much a draw, that's what it looks like. Particularly with Cook being the England captain. A Michael Clarke or Shane Warne might have gone for a win from here on, but not Cook. England would bat on to their heart's content, add a couple more hundreds to the kitty tomorrow, and then put India in towards the last session. By the time, the track should start to wake up just a little bit, and India would end the day 4 down.......

by msp83 Sat 12 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

Can Cook do the unthinkable? Bat half the day, push the lead close to 330-350, give India about 40-45 overs to chase it down? India won't win from there, they won't even go for the chase, but perhaps, perhaps England could create some serious drama?

by msp83 Sat 12 Nov 2016, 11:31 am

And, is Chest thumper Shastri the biggest clown to have ever walked the planet? He was talking about Ashwin and Shami bring the lead down to 20-25, and how that could open the game up as the track would start doing all kinds of things from that very point. This was even before Shami was dropped by Cook! Incredible idiot!

by dyrewolfe Sat 12 Nov 2016, 11:37 am

msp83 wrote:Can Cook do the unthinkable? Bat half the day, push the lead close to 330-350, give India about 40-45 overs to chase it down? India won't win from there, they won't even go for the chase, but perhaps, perhaps England could create some serious drama?

Thats more or less what I was hoping for...but with a lead of nearer to 300 to give India more incentive to chase. Think you're right that Cook will play it safe...though to be fair there isn't much incentive for India to go for the win either and England's bowlers would be relying on help from the pitch to get wickets.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 Nov 2016, 11:43 am

The nature of the pitch and how slowly the wickets have fallen means this is a nailed on cert for a draw. However, England are in the position to exert themselves and make a statement by declaring with a lead of 300 to 350 and then getting 4 or 5 Indian wickets before the draw is cemented. It gives England the momentum in the series.

by guildfordbat Sat 12 Nov 2016, 1:39 pm

Good of you to show up, Craig - Alfie grassed on you being too busy with the tennis when you should have been here doing your road maps! Very Happy

Unless the wicket starts to misbehave on the last day and gives real encouragement to the spinners, I've no issue with Cook looking for England to bat out the day.

Whilst that may seem very negative and disappointing, we need to keep in mind this is a 5 match series condensed into an extremely small time period.

India actually batted slightly longer in the first innings than England. Our guys sent down 162 overs. As I've often said, Test match bowling is hard work and so it should be. If there is a small chance of us forcing the win, it's only right that our bowlers be stretched tomorrow. However, if there is considered to be no realistic chance of victory, I would leave the bowlers with their feet up for as long as possible. As regards momentum, I'm inclined to think that's already slightly with England barring any last day screw up.

by guildfordbat Sat 12 Nov 2016, 1:46 pm

Just to add - an excellent contribution already from Hameed.

Of the ten opening partners Cook has had since Strauss retired, Hameed is the only one to go past 40 in his first Test batting up top with him.

I don't want to jinx the teenager but he definitely seems to have something about him.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 Nov 2016, 1:59 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Good of you to show up, Craig - Alfie grassed on you being too busy with the tennis when you should have been here doing your road maps!

Unless the wicket starts to misbehave on the last day and gives real encouragement to the spinners, I've no issue with Cook looking for England to bat out the day.

Whilst that may seem very negative and disappointing, we need to keep in mind this is a 5 match series condensed into an extremely small time period.

India actually batted slightly longer in the first innings than England. Our guys sent down 162 overs. As I've often said, Test match bowling is hard work and so it should be. If there is a small chance of us forcing the win, it's only right that our bowlers be stretched tomorrow. However, if there is considered to be no realistic chance of victory, I would leave the bowlers with their feet up for as long as possible. As regards momentum, I'm inclined to think that's already slightly with England barring any last day screw up.

Just for you guildfordbat here is my roadmaps for tomorrow.

England will look to score quickly tomorrow and can now afford to throw the bat at plenty of balls. By lunch they'd hope to be around 275 runs ahead with 3 or 4 wickets down. A quick dart after lunch to build the lead up to 300 and declare giving them around half a day to inflict mental scars. I can't see it being enough to win the test but if they can reduce India to around 100 for 5 it will be a psychological blow they can take, along with momentum, into the next test.

India obviously will look for their own little victories. They'd hope to get early wickets quickly and reach lunch about 230 behind with 6 or seven English wickets down. They'd hope to bowl England out with no more than 260 to chase in about 45 overs. If they can bat through to close and get the draw with 150 on the board with just a wicket or two down they'd feel they had the momentum going into the next test.

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 12 Nov 2016, 2:04 pm

First look at Hameed for me, and really quite impressed by the young man. Certainly looks to have a solid compact technique, and seems to pick up the length of delivery very quickly and commit to going forward or back. Has enough shots to score runs (at Test level, I understand even for Lancs he doesn't play the limited overs stuff, IMO a good thing).

Didn't watch a huge amount of England's bowling, but I gather that Rashid carried on from yesterday, and is maybe beginning to bring through some of his ODI form into the Test arena. Hopefully he'll gain in confidence from this.

As to tomorrow, I think a lot depends on how the pitch behaves in the morning session. So far, it's still pretty flat, with no serious deterioration (though it started to go a bit today I felt). If it looks like breaking up, then I'd like England to make a push, try to get 55-60 overs at India. If it's still looking flat, then bat and grind down the Indian bowlers. As guildford says, there are five Tests in a very (ridiculously) short space of time. England have bowled a lot of overs here, albeit none of the bowlers was really overworked due to the six bowlers attack. I suspect though that India will quite quickly switch to their more part time options (Vijay, spot of Kohli, don't think Pujara, Gambhir and Rahane do much bowling) if it looks like England are just going to bat on.

One thing for sure, is that England have put themselves in a position where they can't (or at least shouldn't) lose the game, which in itself is a positive given their position going into this tour.

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