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James DeGale v Badou Jack - Official Fight Thread

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Post by Steffan on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 8:44 pm

First topic message reminder :

What with the undercard and fight only hours away...I thought it was time to get this up and running. Call me premature...it wouldn't be the first time

I got full confidence in DeGale to take this. I gone for late TKO. My mate who often seeks council in me for my boxing knowledge and wisdom has predicted Chunky to take a victory in the early rounds

As it goes we don't trust no score cards anymore...and that could work against both fighters. Word on the street is that the later the fight goes...the more chance there is of Chunky doing jack against Jack...which clearly works in Badou's favour

On the biggest night of his entire life (the time he picked up that blond in a Harlesden pub not included) DeGale needs to in top condition...which he does look. If you're a Jack fan then your boy looks pretty powerful and will be aiming to get the big shots in

Either way...here's to a great fight and may the best man win

Stay tuned for further discussion on this night of boxing

Ladies and Gentleman............IT'S CHUNKTIME


Regards

Steffan

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 9:43 am

If Howard Foster had been the ref, DeGold would've been stopped in that 12th, shipped huge punishment and was all over the place.

Final round edged it to Jack to me. Pity He's moving up as we're still left without a clear SMW #1 if so, and I can't see him making a massive impression at 175.

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Post by milkyboy on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 10:04 am

They seem to be talking jack Stevenson. Could be an interesting fight, can see his workrate potentially troubling Stevenson but if he ships a straight left from superduck like he did from chunky he won't be getting up.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 10:09 am

Superduck takes that inside the distance.

Like Jack but he's unexceptional.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 10:47 am

Close fight and a great watch. Draw was probably a fair result.

Degale has great ability, but he lacks something. I used to think he was a pretty heavy favourite over Groves in a rematch, but now I'm not so sure. I would love to see these fights with Groves and smith being made this year.

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Post by lfc91 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 10:50 am

I really enjoyed this fight. Had degale edging it going into the 12th. Obviously with that round being a 10-8 I think a draw in the end was about fair enough. Jack really is a very good fighter, just keeps getting better. Degale showed great heart and ability to make it to the end looked out on his feet!

Would happily wait up to watch a rematch (As it was I watched the recording first thing Sunday).

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 11:06 am

Looking at his record, Jack actually looks very average for a top-level fighter - basically fought nobody significant (other than Periban who's bang average and he only managed a draw) before Dirrell who he could only MD then Groves who he could only SD before draws against Bute and DeGale.

So against the 4 or 5 only decent (top10) divisional fighters he's fought his record is Draw MD SD Draw Draw.

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Post by Dylan1979 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 11:30 am

Dylan1979 wrote:Jack got robbed!! Plain & simple.

Degale won 3 rounds at best. Boxing needs to fix up, losing fans fast.

After the Yuri Foreman dive, the sport did not need another joke decision.

Just watched it again, this time wide awake. Still think Jack won, but not a robbery.

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Post by Rodney on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 11:54 am

I had Jack winning it by 2 points but as alluded to by many others no robbery. Huge credit to Degale big heart, looks like Smith is facing Dirrell next which would mean a Degale v Groves rematch - anyone still think this is a gimme for Degale ?

Cheers, Rodders

ps Mayweather is still a complete tool !
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 12:12 pm

Closer.....does Groves not have a title fight lined up (another!)?

If he can get through the Chudinov fight and look impressive then it'll come back to gameplan on any rematch. Think JdG takes it this time and we have a Brit trilogy on our hands with the only good Smith in the mixer too....

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:05 am

Rodney wrote:I had Jack winning it by 2 points but as alluded to by many others no robbery. Huge credit to Degale big heart, looks like Smith is facing Dirrell next which would mean a Degale v Groves rematch - anyone still think this is a gimme for Degale ?

Cheers, Rodders

ps Mayweather is still a complete tool !

I still fancy DeGale to wipe George out - Groves looks damaged goods to me.

Am I the only one who can't see Smith beating Dirrell? I'd be surprised if they went for that one (Hearn/Gallagher).

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:17 am

Think it's Anthony dirrell... in which case I'd give him a decent chance. Don't rate Anthony... but as smith has never fought anyone at that level regardless, I wouldn't bet on the outcome.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:23 am

milkyboy wrote:Think it's Anthony dirrell... in which case I'd give him a decent chance. Don't rate Anthony... but as smith has never fought anyone at that level regardless, I wouldn't bet on the outcome.

I don't imagine either Dirrell would travel - which makes the job even harder if Smith has to face him in the States. Saying that, he'd have struggled even more had Jack won. He isn't ready for Jack yet.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:46 am

Think both Dirrells are a bit of a busted flush frankly. Interesting 5 years ago but no more than gatekeeper level now.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:18 am

Andre is definitely the more talented, his career went into a slide after the strange Abraham fight conclusion.

After the early knockdown I thought he still looked pretty good against chunky though.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:45 am

Maybe busted flush was a bit harsh! Talented brothers I think they just took too much time off and have become less relevant and less able as a result. AA ending was weird, and weak, at least Griffin had the balls to get back in the ring with RJJ.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:47 am

Andre has only lost a couple of squeakers (and pushed DeGale to the wire last year).

Similarly, Anthony ran Jack close last year and has won three straight.

Surprised you're viewing them as gatekeepers, despite the fact their best days may be in the rear view mirror.

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Post by Rodney on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:51 am

I wouldn't be picking Smith to beat either especially on foreign soil but it looks like it will be Anthony should Jack vacate. We don't know how good Smith is but I've seen him fight Live around 5 times and been largely unimpressed. Seems a typical Gallagher fighter sit tight and wait for openings unfortunately not so easy against fighters in the higher echelons of the divisions.
Cheers, Rodders
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Post by owen10ozzy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:53 am

Think the Smith outcome depends on just how much treading water has cost him in the last 12-18 months: sometimes it's best to get fighters in their when they are on a real high and feel unbeatable and full of confidence. That was Callum over a year ago but his body language and interviews suggest that he himself is a little flustered at his lack of big performances in his last 3 outings. He certainly hasn't looked the force we thought he'd be...that could be because of the slight step up in level but I'm more inclined to think he has regressed because he hasn't really had a big challenge.

As for the DeGale fight....I rewatched it the next day and whilst I wouldn't declare it a robbery, on second viewing the result is most definitely a travesty in scoring. Especially the card that had DeGale winning...being extremely kind you could just about give him a draw but no way he won the fight. I had the fight scored as follows;

10-8 DeGale
10-9 DeGale
10-10
9-10 Jack
9-10 Jack
9-10 Jack
10-10
9-10 Jack
10-9 DeGale
10-9 DeGale
9-10 Jack
8-10 Jack

113- 115 : Rounds 3 & 7 I couldn't split but if I had to then 3 I'd have swing towards DeGale and 7 towards Jack. It's not often I agree with the sky commentators but when they mentioned that defensive work showed by Jack would have been waxed lyrical had it been Mayweather they were bang on the button.

Anyhow onto other things for both by all accounts;

I don't see Jack troubling the 175'ers..not the top ones anyhow.

DeGale...well for me he loses to both Groves and Smith...most certainly the latter...Groves will always be a nip and tuck affair in my opinion..as for Callum, whilst we don't know how good he is...I don't see DeGale keeping him off him and once he's on the ropes he's going to get hurt a lot. The two punches DeGale took plenty of on Saturday were the jab and body shots. Well Callum hits bloody hard to the body..and with his height and reach I think DeGale will ship plenty of jabs from around 4 onwards.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:11 pm

Travesty in scoring?

Think I had DeGale taking the 11th. So knock one off Jack and add one to DeGale and you've got the 114-114 draw. Too fine a margin to call travesty for me.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:21 pm

Robbery is a word used far too often now, as soon as somebody disagrees with a decision they drop the R bomb.

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Post by owen10ozzy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:48 pm

That's why I didn't say Robbery; I don't think it was...I used travesty because so often on this thread and others..you get fans moaning about pressure being scored over effective pressure or you get people complaining that defensive work isn't taken into consideration.

Saturday, Badou was both effective in his pressure and his defence for 8 of the 12 Rounds was brilliant. From Rounds 3-9 he barely took a full clean shot.

It's funny because the same accusations that were thrown at Calzaghe regards slapping punches don't get mentioned with DeGale...and he does so with far less volume than Joe did. I applaud the mans grit and resilience and fortitude on Saturday; he took a pasting in the 8th and the 12th round but stood up to it. However in my view he is an average champion (as are all at 168 now) and on his last 3 outings has shown nothing to suggest he is as special as some would have you believe.

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Post by owen10ozzy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:50 pm

TopHat...if you had DeGale win the 11th id be intrigued to know how you scored the 3rd and 7th Rounds. I don't think DeGale did anything effective in the 11th..and the heavier crisper shots were all landed by Jack. From memory a cracking short right uppercut the highlight of them. I haven't seen the official score cards so if anyone can acces them that would be great.b

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 1:25 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:
It's funny because the same accusations that were thrown at Calzaghe regards slapping punches don't get mentioned with DeGale...and he does so with far less volume than Joe did. I applaud the mans grit and resilience and fortitude on Saturday; he took a pasting in the 8th and the 12th round but stood up to it. However in my view he is an average champion (as are all at 168 now) and on his last 3 outings has shown nothing to suggest he is as special as some would have you believe.

Fair points. i was less concerned with the slappy aaaarrrrrmmmm punches than i was with how many of them landed on gloves. People keep saying degale has it in him, but only fights in spurts... laziness, concentration, fitness whatever. Whatever it is, he does it everytime. He has plenty of ability but he's an 'ok' champion, nothing more or less in my book.

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Post by owen10ozzy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 1:33 pm

I don't even think he has as much 'ability' as people claim. Ok that's wrong in a way as we are talking about an Olympic gold medalist and current world champion. Far more ability than I possess in boxing. He has great hand speed but doesn't utilise it to its maximum, his jab is pretty poor, he slaps rather than sits on his punches..his defence is extremely poor as is his concentration. There had been talk that the reason he sat on the ropes was his conditioning and his tendency to take rounds off..it might be part of it but fundamentally his footwork defensively isn't all that good. Put it this way..it Golovkin stepped up he would pressure DeGale straight into the corner and poor old James wouldn't find a way out.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 2:54 pm

What's the difference between a travesty and a robbery?

I had it level (with Jack pulling out a draw in the last). While Jack won his rounds big, DeGale was more active and nicked a few rounds with busy bursts in the final minute.

I thought the decision was dead on - neither man proved themselves better than the other. What a shame we aren't getting the rematch (or a trilogy).

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 2:57 pm

GGG really needs to pull his finger out. BJS now talking of retirement therefore don't waste more than the rest of 2016 at 160 and get in and clear out 168 - can't see anyone there troubling him right now.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 3:49 pm

hazharrison wrote:What's the difference between a travesty and a robbery?

I had it level (with Jack pulling out a draw in the last). While Jack won his rounds big, DeGale was more active and nicked a few rounds with busy bursts in the final minute.

I thought the decision was dead on - neither man proved themselves better than the other. What a shame we aren't getting the rematch (or a trilogy).

It was a trabbery.

To some degree it was a case of what you like, but punch stats were clearly in jack's favour. To me you had to lean to degale in the close rounds to get him a draw... and give him everything and more to get him winning. So not a robbery, just a close fight, where the consensus was that jack was the unlucky one.

Bit like ward kovalev. Reaches for coat.

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Post by owen10ozzy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 4:05 pm

Nicked a few rounds with last minute bursts...fair enough..but those bursts surely have to contain punches that hit the actual target rather than being blocked the whole time...

I can just about give close rounds to a fighter on pressure alone when the other person has barely thrown anything but when that fighter is landing the cleaner harder shots then I'm inclined to give them the round.

And agreed Tophat...I'm not sure GGG is ever going to get that big career defining win TBH, don't see anyone stepping in with him who could give him it..however he can secure a legacy of sorts by finishing off his Business and then stepping up and taking care of the 168ers..


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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 9:37 pm

I watched on an iPhone, so maybe I missed something but DeGale did a lot of decent work. Those slashing shots were knocking Jack's head about and while Jack's shots were direct and accurate I'm astonished to see those punch stats (which can be misleading). It definitely felt like DeGale's quantity vs Jack's quality.

Degale was up 4 pts and 2 pts twice heading into the last. American TV had him ahead from what I can recall. Plenty of drawn scorecards in the press, also. Familiar problem for Jack - he just doesn't quite do enough to swing the cards his way (this isn't the first time he's griped at the cards - they can't all be "robberies").

And it was no Kovalev vs Ward! Kovalev won handily (and both DeGale and Jack were exciting to watch!).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 9:54 pm

Ward and Degale aren't popular..So posters forget that if I trash you under 10 point must without decking you for 6 rounds..and you nick 6 rounds we draw...

Sorry but that is the system..

Degale v Jack and Ward v Kovalev...Weren't robberies kiddies.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:01 pm

Yeh the septic tv had degale up... not sure on the press split. Certainly incomparable as a spectacle to Ward kovalev but from a scoring perspective there were similarities in a number of swing rounds - the punch stats bore that out, and they do again in this one:

http://www.boxingscene.com/badou-jack-vs-james-degale-compubox-punch-stats--112690

Basically, from a stats perspective (allowing for the issues of, it's just a bloke hitting a button.. and no account of quality) jack won a few rounds big, but most were pretty tight - down to what you like and inevitable to get a wide range of cards. Jack was the one who can consider himself unlucky though.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ward and Degale aren't popular..So posters forget that if I trash you under 10 point must without decking you for 6 rounds..and you nick 6 rounds we draw...

Sorry but that is the system..

Degale v Jack and Ward v Kovalev...Weren't robberies kiddies.

Yep you only need to watch sturm macklin if you want that spelt out for you. It comes down to whether it's right to always favour the same guy in a tight round or not. Often, I think judges just like one guy's work better and it's rinse and repeat for all the 'pickem' rounds. Be interesting to see the judges cards.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:19 pm

milkyboy wrote:Yeh the septic tv had degale up... not sure on the press split. Certainly incomparable as a spectacle to Ward kovalev but from a scoring perspective there were similarities in a number of swing rounds - the punch stats bore that out, and they do again in this one:

http://www.boxingscene.com/badou-jack-vs-james-degale-compubox-punch-stats--112690

Basically, from a stats perspective (allowing for the issues of, it's just a bloke hitting a button.. and no account of quality) jack won a few rounds big, but most were pretty tight - down to what you like and inevitable to get a wide range of cards. Jack was the one who can consider himself unlucky though.

It was impossible to split a couple of rounds - it was so tight. I thought the bout had a symmetry to it - both scoring knockdowns at either end; Degale started better, Jack finished stronger. A really good, competitive fight - as close as it gets.

Unlike Kovalev Ward, where one guy pi55ed the first six rounds and scored a knockdown to boot, while the other fiddled a few middle rounds with some of the scruffiest boxing I've seen in a fight of this magnitude and then lost a couple late. Barely anyone had Ward winning (and he knows it).


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:25 pm

I scored it for Ward and plenty others did.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:25 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I scored it for Ward and plenty others did.

You were in the minority.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I scored it for Ward and plenty others did.

I wouldn't bother wasting your time, plenty had Ward winning but the village idiots ignore that.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:32 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I scored it for Ward and plenty others did.

I wouldn't bother wasting your time, plenty had Ward winning but the village idiots ignore that.

Those who scored for Ward were in the minority - press were split something like 75:25.

I'll take that over the scores of some Ward fans on here who regularly confuse ar5es with elbows!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:39 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I scored it for Ward and plenty others did.

I wouldn't bother wasting your time, plenty had Ward winning but the village idiots ignore that.

How dare you !!

How could you possibly have a go at..

32 yr old "Hagler was past it when Leonard fought him"..

37 yr old "Mayweather shows he isn't Top 10 after Maidana"

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 12:12 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I scored it for Ward and plenty others did.

I wouldn't bother wasting your time, plenty had Ward winning but the village idiots ignore that.

How dare you !!

How could you possibly have a go at..

32 yr old "Hagler was past it when Leonard fought him"..

37 yr old "Mayweather shows he isn't Top 10 after Maidana"

I think we've found the village idiot...

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 12:14 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2017/jan/14/james-degale-badou-jack-fight-live

Judges cards: agree on 7 rounds:
1 jdg
5 jdg
6 jack
8 jack
10 jdg
11 jdg
12 jack

So Owen... all 3 judges gave degale the 11th. And the 5th for that matter.

Back to Compubox... a lot of close rounds, but degale didn't Outland  jack in any round after the 2nd.

Yours

Statto

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 12:20 am

milkyboy wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2017/jan/14/james-degale-badou-jack-fight-live

Judges cards: agree on 7 rounds:
1 jdg
5 jdg
6 jack
8 jack
10 jdg
11 jdg
12 jack

So Owen... all 3 judges gave degale the 11th. And the 5th for that matter.

Back to Compubox... a lot of close rounds, but degale didn't Outland  jack in any round after the 2nd.

Yours

Statto

Surprised at that but perhaps says more about the fallibility of some bloke sitting trying to count punches!

Great fight - both fighters were fantastic.


Last edited by hazharrison on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 12:49 am

I scored it for jack by 2....But 2 points is one round on most judges cards...

Judges are loathe to give out 10-10..

If you don’t like Degale he's the recipient of a gift....If you are neutral it is a contentious draw..

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 8:17 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:GGG really needs to pull his finger out.  BJS now talking of retirement therefore don't waste more than the rest of 2016 at 160 and get in and clear out 168 - can't see anyone there troubling him right now.

Thats a good thing for GGG, he can fight for the vacant belt rather than having to chase BJS for it

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 10:06 am

I can't see that happening with Alvarez as the number one contender, it's very unusual for another belt holder to fight for a vacant belt.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 11:12 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I can't see that happening with Alvarez as the number one contender, it's very unusual for another belt holder to fight for a vacant belt.

GGG will make himself a mandatory for Canelo, then he will have to drop the belt (Again) or fight him

Win win

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 11:13 am

According to Fat Dan, if Canelo comes through Chavez then GGG is being lined up for September....

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 12:03 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I can't see that happening with Alvarez as the number one contender, it's very unusual for another belt holder to fight for a vacant belt.

GGG will make himself a mandatory for Canelo, then he will have to drop the belt (Again) or fight him

Win win

He can't, to my knowledge the WBO don't have interim titles and don't give a ranking to other champions, he became mandatory for the WBC because he had the interim belt.

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 12:13 am

Jack vacated his belt today. Smith vs Anthony Dirrell to be mandated. Considering neither Dirrell travels much probably be in the states

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 20 Jan 2017, 12:21 am

Just watched it again amazed at people scoring that for DeGale Jack the clear winner for me the first knockdown a flash one thought DeGale's work was largely ineffective can't understand why Carl didn't take the fight he'd walk right through DeGale imo maybe James had a mental edge on him or something I can't fathom it

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Fri 20 Jan 2017, 7:57 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Just watched it again amazed at people scoring that for DeGale Jack the clear winner for me the first knockdown a flash one thought DeGale's work was largely ineffective can't understand why Carl didn't take the fight he'd walk right through DeGale imo maybe James had a mental edge on him or something I can't fathom it

Saw it the same way I did

I think I had it 8-4 to Jack

I wanted Degale to win it badly, but Jack's punches were crisper and his defence was really really good, he managed to block a lot of what Degale threw, who was very sloppy with his punch bursts

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