6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March

by **George Carlin** Mon 13 Mar 2017, 6:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March - Page 9 Irelan10

6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March - Page 9 Englan11

IRELAND v ENGLAND
18 March 2017
KO: 17:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Mathieu Raynal (France) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Live on [BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)]

A. Head to Head

131 Played 131
47 Won 76
8 Drawn 8
76 Lost 47
1,079 Points 1,526

B. Recent Form

27 February 2016
Twickenham, London
21 – 10 to England

5 September 2015
Twickenham, London
21 – 13 to England

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

C. Teams

IRELAND
6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March - Page 9 Irish_11

6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March - Page 9 Irish_11

Payne; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Marmion; McGrath, Best (captain), Furlong; Ryan, Henderson; Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip,

Replacements: Scannell, Healy, Ryan, Toner, O'Mahony, McGrath, Jackson, Conway.

ENGLAND
6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March - Page 9 Bulldo10

6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March - Page 9 Bulldo10

Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley (captain), Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, B Vunipola.

Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.

by doctor_grey Fri 17 Mar 2017, 12:27 pm

TightHEAD wrote:How can we Drop Ford when he is our most destructive defender!

Yes, his defense is destructive to England.............

by rapidsnowman Fri 17 Mar 2017, 12:41 pm

eirebilly wrote:Very worried about the English midfield, especially JJ as I feel that he will give Ringrose a very long day.

Farrell Snr has had 2 weeks to work out how to stop him - let's hope he has more than a blank sheet of paper Fingers Crossed

by munkian Fri 17 Mar 2017, 12:59 pm

Zebo is going to be shown up as a passenger.

by mikey_dragon Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:00 pm

munkian wrote:Zebo is going to be shown up as a passenger.

It's either him or Ford.

by TightHEAD Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:00 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:How can we Drop Ford when he is our most destructive defender!
Yes, his defense is destructive to England.............

and to the opposition, we all know Ireland will try and run down his throat.

by cascough Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:03 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:How can we Drop Ford when he is our most destructive defender!
Yes, his defense is destructive to England.............

and to the opposition, we all know Ireland will try and run down his throat.

I hope that's as imaginative as Ireland's gameplan gets. Happy days if it is.

by TightHEAD Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:12 pm

Ah don't forget they have the Gary Owen too.

by mikey_dragon Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:14 pm

And the Sexton loop-around...

by Geen sport voor watjes Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:27 pm

We still have Jamie..beat that.

by Cyril Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:33 pm

I'll miss Toner in the maul looking like someone's da joining in a mini-rugby game Smile

by TightHEAD Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:35 pm

Cyril wrote:I'll miss Toner in the maul looking like someone's da joining in a mini-rugby game

Lol

by munkian Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:35 pm

Cyril wrote:I'll miss Toner in the maul looking like someone's da joining in a mini-rugby game

His only job was being a decent target in the lineout and he feiced that one up.

by TightHEAD Fri 17 Mar 2017, 1:36 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:We still have Jamie..beat that.

Good for you.

by robbo277 Fri 17 Mar 2017, 3:00 pm

eirebilly wrote:I am very happy to see Payne playing in, what I consider to be, his best position. Payne from full back offers so much more attacking threat and he will finally bring Irelands midfield and wings into the game more on counter attacks.

As much as I like Murray, it is great to see Marmion get a run out. Think he will offer more quick ball than Murray has done and get Ireland more front foot possession. I was pretty upset with Schmidt that he did not replace Murray with Marmion for the remainder of the Wales game after he got injured.

Hendo, well he is simply more of a threat than Toner I feel. Too much emphasis is placed on Toner for the line out but he has not been great there recently and Hendo is not a bad line out operator.

Very worried about the English midfield, especially JJ as I feel that he will give Ringrose a very long day.
I honestly would not start Ford for this game, I would put Farrell at 10 with Teo 12 and JJ 13. I think that would hammer the Irish midfield.

Anyways, happy Paddy's day all, don't get too pished before tomorrow

So Payne's the Irish anti-Mike Brown then?

Don't know a lot about Marmion, but I doubt he'd have got the start with Murray fit.

I think Henderson is twice the player that Toner is too.

So all in all 2 out of 3 of your changes have strengthened you in my opinion.

Disagree on Ford, we've just scored 7 tries against the team who, at kick-off, were our only title challengers, with him playing at 10. In this system, Ford works well, and bringing in a battering ram means we negate one of our strengths which, surprisingly for an England team, is a pretty lethal set of outside backs.

by tazfalklands Fri 17 Mar 2017, 4:16 pm

Everyone knows Ford is small and so his defence is weak.

I think what people should ask with Ford are we going to score more tries than we concede, which I think is a yes, and with a different fly half who was a better defender would that positive difference be as great (they would concede fewer but England would score fewer tries as well).
I think the axis of Ford Farell and Joseph will have a greater points difference for than a Farrell Teo and Joseph or any other midfield trio available to England

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 6:28 pm

Huge win for ireland on the cards this weekend

by Gooseberry Fri 17 Mar 2017, 6:36 pm

True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 6:47 pm

Gooseberry wrote:True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call

Doubt it, i expect a double Irish victory

by Scottrf Fri 17 Mar 2017, 7:13 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call
Doubt it, i expect a double Irish victory

But you're shocking at predictions so that probably favours England.

by captain carrantuohil Fri 17 Mar 2017, 7:24 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call
Doubt it, i expect a double Irish victory

Speaking as an Irishman, on this one occasion, I feel gratitude for your brevity but compassion for the fact that you appear to have no other home to go to or occupation to pursue and absolutely no want of your support.

Two out of every three of your sentences are generally factually incorrect. If only as great a percentage contained a scintilla of wit or originality to compensate. You clog every worthwhile post with your brand of peculiarly attention-seeking sewage and do as much as anyone to perpetuate the infantile brand of nationalistic name-calling that the mods have done such a Trojan job of eliminating for the most part. Neither use nor ornament, you are a shining example of the continuing need for care in the community. Like rotten fish by moonlight, therefore, you manage to shine and stink simultaneously.

In the name of God, go, man. There has to be a potential partner of one sex or another out there to fill your time more usefully and who could find something to like in even one so bereft of the milk of human kindness as yourself. Go seek them out. Bonne Chance.

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 8:41 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call
Doubt it, i expect a double Irish victory

Speaking as an Irishman, on this one occasion, I feel gratitude for your brevity but compassion for the fact that you appear to have no other home to go to or occupation to pursue and absolutely no want of your support.

Two out of every three of your sentences are generally factually incorrect. If only as great a percentage contained a scintilla of wit or originality to compensate. You clog every worthwhile post with your brand of peculiarly attention-seeking sewage and do as much as anyone to perpetuate the infantile brand of nationalistic name-calling that the mods have done such a Trojan job of eliminating for the most part. Neither use nor ornament, you are a shining example of the continuing need for care in the community. Like rotten fish by moonlight, therefore, you manage to shine and stink simultaneously.

In the name of God, go, man. There has to be a potential partner of one sex or another out there to fill your time more usefully and who could find something to like in even one so bereft of the milk of human kindness as yourself. Go seek them out. Bonne Chance.

Pretty sure that's a personal attack.

Funny how some people get the knickers so tightly in a bunch over an internet forum. Just hilarious actually.
Anyway, starting off your diatribe with 'speaking as an irishman' generally, ok (say 2 out o 3 times), dulls my interest. I'd say i'm pretty original and i appreciate the compliment, and you seem to back that up so thanks and sorry to call you out as a damnable hypocrite but it is you doing the name calling old boy.

But, still expect Ireland to do the job thumbsup

by Hammersmith harrier Fri 17 Mar 2017, 8:47 pm

Very well put Captain, he's not really worth the effort though.

by captain carrantuohil Fri 17 Mar 2017, 8:52 pm

It certainly is a personal attack, one of the few I've ever permitted myself.

Then again, I've rarely encountered anyone whose posts are without fail neither amusing nor informative, neither positive nor courteous.

You regard yourself as an original and sadly, you are mistaken. There are plenty of other people for whom the anonymity of the keyboard permits liberties that they would never dare take with other people if they ever met them in person.

It's not even a question of getting knickers in a twist. For me, this forum is an occasional source of fun and even something to learn from once in a while. Bilious blow-hards like you just remove any pleasure from the exercise. I will doubtless be told to ignore you but your leaden prose seeps like methane gas over just about every thread and it's way too time-consuming to wade through all the dross.

In signing off, I wonder whether your nearest and dearest (if such things exist in a life so clearly unhappy as yours) would express great pride in your offerings on this site if you were ever minded to show them off? If so, it might explain a lot.

by majesticimperialman Fri 17 Mar 2017, 9:02 pm

Gwlad wrote:
captain carrantuohil wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call
Doubt it, i expect a double Irish victory

Speaking as an Irishman, on this one occasion, I feel gratitude for your brevity but compassion for the fact that you appear to have no other home to go to or occupation to pursue and absolutely no want of your support.

Two out of every three of your sentences are generally factually incorrect. If only as great a percentage contained a scintilla of wit or originality to compensate. You clog every worthwhile post with your brand of peculiarly attention-seeking sewage and do as much as anyone to perpetuate the infantile brand of nationalistic name-calling that the mods have done such a Trojan job of eliminating for the most part. Neither use nor ornament, you are a shining example of the continuing need for care in the community. Like rotten fish by moonlight, therefore, you manage to shine and stink simultaneously.

Well In the name of God, go, man. There has to be a potential partner of one sex or another out there to fill your time more usefully and who could find something to like in even one so bereft of the milk of human kindness as yourself. Go seek them out. Bonne Chance.

Pretty sure that's a personal attack.

Funny how some people get the knickers so tightly in a bunch over an internet forum. Just hilarious actually.
Anyway, starting off your diatribe with 'speaking as an irishman' generally, ok (say 2 out o 3 times), dulls my interest. I'd say i'm pretty original and i appreciate the compliment, and you seem to back that up so thanks and sorry to call you out as a damnable hypocrite but it is you doing the name calling old boy.

But, still expect Ireland to do the job

Well Ireland are 1 nil down at the moment Gwlad

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 9:04 pm

It was you said I was original, in fact you've got such a wood on for me i am very flattered. Your knickers are sooooo tightly bunched i can hear your little voice squeaking as you batter the keys of your computer with your outrage and its very very amusing!!

Hope Ireland have as much fight! Come on Paddies!!

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 9:06 pm

I've just reviewed my posts and asked my wife to do the same.

She thinks you need to get laid thumbsup

I said i appreciate the guy is still sore after he got humped in Cardiff last weekend Hug

by Barney McGrew did it Fri 17 Mar 2017, 9:11 pm

generous offer but wouldn't you be pished

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 9:15 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote: generous offer but wouldn't you be pished

guy sounds so upset, like he's having a man child tantrum….it's St Paddys Day, one for the team and all that. thumbsup

by majesticimperialman Fri 17 Mar 2017, 9:58 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
captain carrantuohil wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:True Gwlad the women's game is very hard to call
Doubt it, i expect a double Irish victory

Speaking as an Irishman, on this one occasion, I feel gratitude for your brevity but compassion for the fact that you appear to have no other home to go to or occupation to pursue and absolutely no want of your support.

Two out of every three of your sentences are generally factually incorrect. If only as great a percentage contained a scintilla of wit or originality to compensate. You clog every worthwhile post with your brand of peculiarly attention-seeking sewage and do as much as anyone to perpetuate the infantile brand of nationalistic name-calling that the mods have done such a Trojan job of eliminating for the most part. Neither use nor ornament, you are a shining example of the continuing need for care in the community. Like rotten fish by moonlight, therefore, you manage to shine and stink simultaneously.

Well In the name of God, go, man. There has to be a potential partner of one sex or another out there to fill your time more usefully and who could find something to like in even one so bereft of the milk of human kindness as yourself. Go seek them out. Bonne Chance.

Pretty sure that's a personal attack.

Funny how some people get the knickers so tightly in a bunch over an internet forum. Just hilarious actually.
Anyway, starting off your diatribe with 'speaking as an irishman' generally, ok (say 2 out o 3 times), dulls my interest. I'd say i'm pretty original and i appreciate the compliment, and you seem to back that up so thanks and sorry to call you out as a damnable hypocrite but it is you doing the name calling old boy.

But, still expect Ireland to do the job

Well Ireland are 1 nil down at the moment Gwlad

Ireland 2 nil down Gwlad.

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 10:19 pm

Oh is that right, the stuff he just said is justified is it.

Pretty cowardly of him if you ask me but then people get all brave when they aren't face to face right. Totally over the top and then he's done a runner.

I'm actually deeply offended.

by trebellbobaggins Fri 17 Mar 2017, 11:01 pm

Wrong on the ladies gwlad. They managed the grand slam.

Fair play that Ireland are huge favourites at home tomorrow though but the English did well against the under 20's and ladies.

by Gwlad Fri 17 Mar 2017, 11:56 pm

I see you deleted your bile Gooseberry. More cowardice.

by Gwlad Sat 18 Mar 2017, 12:12 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:Wrong on the ladies gwlad. They managed the grand slam.

Fair play that Ireland are huge favourites at home tomorrow though but the English did well against the under 20's and ladies.

Well done the ladies but really who actually cares? We're really interested in tomorrow's result and i remain confident Ireland will win. England are so deeply invested in how good they are right now, something you never see from NZ who actually are the best team in the world, that they are bound to fall eventually.

Capt Carrot excepted I like to think most Irishmen are decent chaps so it will be well deserved after last weeks humiliation and should help the Lions case for the likes of SOB, Best, Heaslip, Earls, Henshaw and other marginal picks.

by Heaf Sat 18 Mar 2017, 12:55 am

I'm not sure I'd call losing away to Wales a humiliation? And all teams lose eventually - even the mighty ABs ...

by No 7&1/2 Sat 18 Mar 2017, 7:22 am

Ha. One of the best written out downs I've read in a while.

Whatever the score let's hope people remember that they really don't need to complete #%!?s to each other for attention and we don't see a load of posts rubbing people's noses in it like last week.

by **RDW** Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:03 am

Gwlad wrote:I see you deleted your bile Gooseberry. More cowardice.

Gwlad - enough. It was deleted following a report to the mods. Please move on.

by eirebilly Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:11 am

I am up way too early after Paddy's day. I am very excited for today's games, should be a great day all round. Best of luck to ye all.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:14 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Gwlad wrote:I see you deleted your bile Gooseberry. More cowardice.

Gwlad - enough. It was deleted following a report to the mods. Please move on.

I do wish he would. I agree with the Captain.

by eirebilly Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:26 am

robbo277 wrote:

Disagree on Ford, we've just scored 7 tries against the team who, at kick-off, were our only title challengers, with him playing at 10. In this system, Ford works well, and bringing in a battering ram means we negate one of our strengths which, surprisingly for an England team, is a pretty lethal set of outside backs.

I don't think I was very clear on my Ford call. I do think that he is an excellent 10 and easily the most attacking England have. I just think that against Ireland Farrell would be better suited to playing there with Teo 12 and JJ 13, just think it would be a more solid defensive midfield as that is where I think Ireland will attack. I am not so sure it looses too much in attack either.

by eirebilly Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:37 am

On a side note, I do not mind Gwlad. Think people see too much into what he is saying. Personally I feel he has got a decent sense of humour, people need to just relax a little thumbsup

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:46 am

eirebilly wrote:
robbo277 wrote:

Disagree on Ford, we've just scored 7 tries against the team who, at kick-off, were our only title challengers, with him playing at 10. In this system, Ford works well, and bringing in a battering ram means we negate one of our strengths which, surprisingly for an England team, is a pretty lethal set of outside backs.

I don't think I was very clear on my Ford call. I do think that he is an excellent 10 and easily the most attacking England have. I just think that against Ireland Farrell would be better suited to playing there with Teo 12 and JJ 13, just think it would be a more solid defensive midfield as that is where I think Ireland will attack. I am not so sure it looses too much in attack either.

I believe, unsurprisingly, you are looking at it from an Irish perspective i.e. Where can Ireland attack England? That would be down Fords channel.
However, from an English perspective the 10,12,13 axis Ford,Farrell,Joseph has worked exceptionally well. I believe it would be a mistake for England to change our system because we are playing Ireland. It's down to other teams to find a way to beat us not for England to alter our side.
We have given tries away that's true but that fundamentally hasn't been down to Fords defence.

by eirebilly Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:52 am

I am not blaming Ford for try's given away, I really rate Ford. I just feel that sometimes teams have to adjust to the opposition for a better balance. It is something that Schmidt has not done which has led to Ireland loosing games.

If Paddy Jackson was starting at 10 for Ireland then I would certainly start Ford at 10.

Maybe I am looking at it with an Irish perspective as you say though thumbsup

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:55 am

eirebilly wrote:I am not blaming Ford for try's given away, I really rate Ford. I just feel that sometimes teams have to adjust to the opposition for a better balance. It is something that Schmidt has not done which has led to Ireland loosing games.

If Paddy Jackson was starting at 10 for Ireland then I would certainly start Ford at 10.

Maybe I am looking at it with an Irish perspective as you say though

by robbo277 Sat 18 Mar 2017, 9:04 am

eirebilly wrote:
robbo277 wrote:

Disagree on Ford, we've just scored 7 tries against the team who, at kick-off, were our only title challengers, with him playing at 10. In this system, Ford works well, and bringing in a battering ram means we negate one of our strengths which, surprisingly for an England team, is a pretty lethal set of outside backs.

I don't think I was very clear on my Ford call. I do think that he is an excellent 10 and easily the most attacking England have. I just think that against Ireland Farrell would be better suited to playing there with Teo 12 and JJ 13, just think it would be a more solid defensive midfield as that is where I think Ireland will attack. I am not so sure it looses too much in attack either.

While Te'o would give us more of a threat with ball in hand from the centres, I think Joseph, Watson and Daly would end up with less ball as a result, and so I would stick with Ford. Time could quite easily prove me wrong though!

by eirebilly Sat 18 Mar 2017, 10:03 am

Jonny Sexton wrote: We have got a pretty clear plan, as we always do, and we will just keep trying to do that better.

This is the problem with Schmidt, no plan B or C. Stick to one plan and try to improve on that, if the plan is not working then there is no adjustment from him. England will be well drilled on Irelands approach (as were Wales) they will counter it effectively and will beat Ireland easily.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 18 Mar 2017, 11:01 am

The English are being very quiet about this game today, me included. Nerves??????

by trebellbobaggins Sat 18 Mar 2017, 11:08 am

i think so. we've seen Ireland crush us on a day like this before. They can do it again.

I don't agree with gwlad about Eng talking up how good they are, I think they're keeping a lid on it. I think that's because they probably know Ireland are favourites today.

by Wiglaf Sat 18 Mar 2017, 11:12 am

Supported England since I saw my first game in 1957 but always more in hope than expectation.
Just hope both teams acquit themselves well and no red cards or injuries.
If England win I may even have a cup of cocoa and a Hobnob!
Good luck to both sides.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 18 Mar 2017, 11:19 am

Yeah. What happens when the plan is no longer working? I do think Schmidt has a good blueprint and I always have, but he needs to move it further. Coaches do generally have a style that they stick to, but they need to progress and adapt.

He will always want to play that hyper structured game. When it works, we starve the opposition of possession and we make ground. However, when it fails, we look totally devoid of ideas. The reality is that you need that bit of spark or individual brilliance to ignite the game. One well timed offload or one scything line break can be all it takes.

We don't even have good support play because it requires awareness and intuitiveness on behalf of the player.

by Guest Sat 18 Mar 2017, 11:38 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:I don't agree with gwlad about Eng talking up how good they are

Eddie has been talking it up for a year now. He's a gobshite Aussie and it's his stock and trade.

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