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Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 9:22 am

First topic message reminder :

AdamT wrote:I don't care about him calling out Floyd lol. He can't move up a division, but will move down to fight a smaller man.

You all cream yourselves over him, so yes that suggests you think he is great.

Who "creams themselves" over him? Do you have any examples of this gushing praise? Any articles claiming he's "top ten definitely" etc.?

Ward and Hopkins both called Floyd out, too. It's because they'd make a fortune to fight a guy who couldn't pop a balloon.


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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 6:10 pm

Rodney wrote:
AdamT wrote:
Rodney wrote:I'm hoping Ward sticks around at Light Heavy some great tussles, Stevenson, Beterbiev and Gvozdyk would all be terrific matchups, pretty much echo Milky's thoughts on Saturdays fight. For me Ward is the best we've had over the last 15 years or so with all his big wins against guys in near their prime , maybes needs to create a profile TBE or something to get some attention.

Cheers

You rate Ward higher than Floyd and Manny??

Yes I do the Kovalev wins are a better P4P win than anything Floyd or Manny has on their record. Plus he has championship substance and depth now, a win over Stevenson would almost cement this.

Good points. Froch and Kovalev were at their best weights and in their primes. Had the 2-0 over Kovalev been untainted by controversy, I'd have agreed.

Was Kovalev a better opponent than anything on Floyd's record? I think he just might be. Certainly better than Corrales or Castillo.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 6:46 pm

Kovalev is certainly a better victory than Daniel Jacobs!

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 6:47 pm

AdamT wrote:Kovalev is certainly a better victory than Daniel Jacobs!

100%

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 6:52 pm

Glad you're giving Ward his dues Haz. Though he lost one according to you too.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:01 pm

AdamT wrote:Glad you're giving Ward his dues Haz. Though he lost one according to you too.

He did lose the first fight - absolutely. But it wasn't exactly a damning loss (for those of us who scored it that way). Great fighters aren't happy to co-exist with rivals - they have to eliminate them. Ward has effectively done that in two divisions - and he didn't try to wait Froch and Kovalev out. He wanted to fight them at their best to prove he was a great fighter. Props to him.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:07 pm

Yeah he deserves the plaudits. No ducking or dodging that's for sure.

I hope him and Virgil are blowing smoke up our rears with Aj. He is far too small!

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:11 pm

AdamT wrote:Yeah he deserves the plaudits. No ducking or dodging that's for sure.

I hope him and Virgil are blowing smoke up our rears with Aj. He is far too small!

He'll fight AJ like Jones fought Lewis.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:12 pm

Yet to have a clean win over Kovalev in two attempts in my book

They have unfinished business this Kovalev had checked out of the second fight absolute nonsense imo

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:23 pm

GGG and even Kovalev has given Ward credit. Not the ending we wanted, but Ward won.


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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:27 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Yet to have a clean win over Kovalev in two attempts in my book

They have unfinished business this Kovalev had checked out of the second fight absolute nonsense imo

I agree but I know who I'd back in a 3rd fight.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 7:33 pm

Everyone's forgetting how much Weeks spoiled Kovalev

If Kovalev getting the upper hand in the clinch Weeks breaks if Ward he lets it go. This is nothing new this is Weeks mo

Still 50/50 for me in a neutral country with a fair referee

In fact I still might just favour Kovalev under those circumstances

Ward fans saying Kovalev mentally and physically broken what a load of garbage

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 12:38 pm

I still don't understand why people would even have an issue with Ward losing the first fight anway

He adjusted in the second fight and looked much better

Losses mean nothing to real boxing fans

Undefeated usually means

1. Corruption
2. Never really fought anyone

I would rather someone who took risks had a few L's but still fought the best

The fact Loma lost to Salido means absolutely nothing imo

I think Ward lost to Kovalev first time round, doesn't mean I rate him any less, he put it right in the rematch

Then you wonder why no one takes risks anymore and we don't get the fights we want

Go watch Counterpunch on Netflix you will see what I mean

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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 12:50 pm

Is Floyd corrupt or never fought anyone? Or both?

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 5:02 pm

You completely missed the point

He had a close shave or two that could have gone the other way

Would we think any less or him if he lost?

I wouldn't


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Post by milkyboy on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 5:06 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Everyone's forgetting how much Weeks spoiled Kovalev

If Kovalev getting the upper hand in the clinch Weeks breaks if Ward he lets it go. This is nothing new this is Weeks mo

Still 50/50 for me in a neutral country with a fair referee

In fact I still might just favour Kovalev under those circumstances

Ward fans saying Kovalev mentally and physically broken what a load of garbage

Did you not think he let kov get away with a lot of rabbit punches. In fact the 'Low blow' in the 7th came directly after kov smacked Ward on the back of the head. Maybe weekes just let too much go. The stoppage was terrible, the last punch was a low blow, everything else?

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 5:50 pm

A rabbit punch is punching someone in the back of the head

I don't recall seeing that

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:14 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:A rabbit punch is punching someone in the back of the head

I don't recall seeing that

Fancy that

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:21 pm

Rodney wrote:I'm hoping Ward sticks around at Light Heavy some great tussles, Stevenson, Beterbiev and Gvozdyk would all be terrific matchups, pretty much echo Milky's thoughts on Saturdays fight. For me Ward is the best we've had over the last 15 years or so with all his big wins against guys in near their prime , maybes needs to create a profile TBE or something to get some attention.

Cheers


So two wins over a guy who's best win is Cleverley added to Froch..Kessler and Dawson....puts him higher than Floyd and Manny..

Don't see much support there buddy...Great though Andre is.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:40 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:A rabbit punch is punching someone in the back of the head

I don't recall seeing that

Fancy that  

By all means point me in the direction of a video

Boxing Voice tried to do it, but all they proved is they don't know what a rabbit punch is

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:57 pm

I've already pointed you in the direction of round 7, BF. To be fair Ward had his head to the side, and responded with a borderline shot and an attempted punch on the back of the head himself! They're going to happen more if guys are ducking low.

Ward certainly pushes the rules more than kov, but hermy is in full conspiracy mode.

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:04 pm

You can say kov is as good a win as any of those on mayweather's or manny' resume, but I'm not sure it trumps them. Big credit obviously due for going up in weight to fight a feared champion in his prime.

We need to remember though he was contracted in the super 6 to fight Froch and Kessler rather than seeking them out. Catchweight would be quick to remind us he had home advantage too. I'm not sure having lost to kessler and many thinking he got lucky at home to Dirrell, that Froch was considered that fearsome a prospect at the time.

Floyd and manny both have a greater volume of really good wins for me.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:12 pm

There is one rabbit punch as ward turns

But he isn't doing it consistently

That one looks accidental

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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:13 pm

Ward doesn't rate higher than those two (yet)

The blind hatred for Floyd is astonishing on here by some.

Floyd and Manny are both top tier great modern fighters. Jones Jr is another and Ward is on his way.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 8:05 pm

milkyboy wrote:You can say kov is as good a win as any of those on mayweather's or manny' resume, but I'm not sure it trumps them. Big credit obviously due for going up in weight to fight a feared champion in his prime.

We need to remember though  he was contracted in the super 6 to fight Froch and Kessler rather than seeking them out. Catchweight would be quick to remind us he had home advantage too. I'm not sure having lost to kessler and many thinking he got lucky at home to Dirrell, that Froch was considered that fearsome a prospect at the time.

Floyd and manny both have a greater volume of really good wins for me.

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.....50 yr olds don't count..

We don't know how good he is....If Mugabi had retired after Hagler you could have said the same about that win..

We know how good Barrera types were though.

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 10:15 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:You can say kov is as good a win as any of those on mayweather's or manny' resume, but I'm not sure it trumps them. Big credit obviously due for going up in weight to fight a feared champion in his prime.

We need to remember though  he was contracted in the super 6 to fight Froch and Kessler rather than seeking them out. Catchweight would be quick to remind us he had home advantage too. I'm not sure having lost to kessler and many thinking he got lucky at home to Dirrell, that Froch was considered that fearsome a prospect at the time.

Floyd and manny both have a greater volume of really good wins for me.

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.....50 yr olds don't count..

We don't know how good he is....If Mugabi had retired after Hagler you could have said the same about that win..

We know how good Barrera types were though.

Ridiculous. He beat Ward first time round in most people's eyes - even if you decided to go for Ward, it was just about an even fight - and thrashed Jean Pascal (while dealing with Cleverly like no-one else has). He also dealt with Hopkins impressively.

Barrera was a better fighter than Kovalev, for sure, but there's no-one on Floyd's record, at the time he fought them, better than Kovalev.


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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 10:17 pm

Great little article here on Floyd, Norwood, Burley etc. - the sorts of fighters who go down well on 606v2.

It's a long read but a real cracker (the author is on Twitter - worth following).

http://deadspin.com/why-floyd-mayweather-is-the-last-of-a-kind-1700672546

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 10:22 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:You can say kov is as good a win as any of those on mayweather's or manny' resume, but I'm not sure it trumps them. Big credit obviously due for going up in weight to fight a feared champion in his prime.

We need to remember though  he was contracted in the super 6 to fight Froch and Kessler rather than seeking them out. Catchweight would be quick to remind us he had home advantage too. I'm not sure having lost to kessler and many thinking he got lucky at home to Dirrell, that Froch was considered that fearsome a prospect at the time.

Floyd and manny both have a greater volume of really good wins for me.

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.....50 yr olds don't count..

We don't know how good he is....If Mugabi had retired after Hagler you could have said the same about that win..

We know how good Barrera types were though.

Ridiculous. He beat Ward first time round in most people's eyes - even if you decided to go for Ward, it was just about an even fight - and thrashed Jean Pascal (while dealing with Cleverly like no-one else has). He also dealt with Hopkins impressively.

Barrera was a better fighter than Kovalev, for sure, but there's no-one on Floyd's record at the time he fought them, better than Kovalev.

In most peoples eyes.....You know most people do you ??........I thought Witherspoon beat Holmes for what it is worth.....

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.............It isn't a statement you can refute.....

Not interested in any link to one of your Floyd articles............Probably has half of it missing....You have form when it comes to things like that.. Wink ...Goodnight !!

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:You can say kov is as good a win as any of those on mayweather's or manny' resume, but I'm not sure it trumps them. Big credit obviously due for going up in weight to fight a feared champion in his prime.

We need to remember though  he was contracted in the super 6 to fight Froch and Kessler rather than seeking them out. Catchweight would be quick to remind us he had home advantage too. I'm not sure having lost to kessler and many thinking he got lucky at home to Dirrell, that Froch was considered that fearsome a prospect at the time.

Floyd and manny both have a greater volume of really good wins for me.

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.....50 yr olds don't count..

We don't know how good he is....If Mugabi had retired after Hagler you could have said the same about that win..

We know how good Barrera types were though.

Ridiculous. He beat Ward first time round in most people's eyes - even if you decided to go for Ward, it was just about an even fight - and thrashed Jean Pascal (while dealing with Cleverly like no-one else has). He also dealt with Hopkins impressively.

Barrera was a better fighter than Kovalev, for sure, but there's no-one on Floyd's record at the time he fought them, better than Kovalev.

In most peoples eyes.....You know most people do you  ??........I thought Witherspoon beat Holmes for what it is worth.....

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.............It isn't a statement you can refute.....

Not interested in any link to one of your Floyd articles............Probably has half of it missing....You have form when it comes to things like that.. Wink ...Goodnight !!

Press scored 75-25 for Kovalev (a fair representation of opinion on social media from my experience). Pascal and Hopkins are former lineal light heavyweight champs. He also arguably beat Ward (beat him clearly in my book).


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:24 pm

milkyboy wrote:I've already pointed you in the direction of round 7, BF. To be fair Ward had his head to the side, and responded with a borderline shot and an attempted punch on the back of the head himself! They're going to happen more if guys are ducking low.

Ward certainly pushes the rules more than kov, but hermy is in full conspiracy mode.


Milky, Weeks is a dirty stinking cont, a disgusting referee and a disgusting human being

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 7:02 am

Sounds a bit like you Herman.

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Post by AdamT on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 7:40 am

Cotto at 154 Imo is better than Kovalev. Mosley destroyed Margarito before Floyd dismantled him.

Floyd thrashed 33-0 Corrales. Any version of Pacquiao and Marquez are better than Kov too. 50 year old Hopkins and Pascal (a guy Froch beat 50 years ago?). Cleverly? Lol

I wouldn't even put Cleverly near Hatton level. Face it Haz, for every odd hater you post an article from, there are many, many more praising Floyd.

You're a good troll though!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 9:12 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sounds a bit like you Herman.

You may think it acceptable interfering with people's livelihoods the way 'nice guy' Tony Weeks does. I find it despicable. I'm sorry for my language but I can't hide my contempt for the man

You're a fine one to talk though aren't you you have just about the lowest moral compass of anyone on this site backing pimps and woman beaters


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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 9:20 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sounds a bit like you Herman.

You may think it acceptable interfering with people's livelihoods the way 'nice guy' Tony Weeks does. I find it despicable. I'm sorry for my language but I can't hide my contempt for the man

You're a fine one to talk though aren't you you have just about the lowest moral compass of anyone on this site backing pimps and woman beaters



You'll find I don't back either Stevenson or Mayweather but that seems to be all you have as a rebuttal, strange how you're only this enraged because it's Kovalev.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 9:25 am

This is about Weeks i've had him under the microscope for a while now I don't come on here to make bold claims just to sound clever

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 11:48 am

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:You can say kov is as good a win as any of those on mayweather's or manny' resume, but I'm not sure it trumps them. Big credit obviously due for going up in weight to fight a feared champion in his prime.

We need to remember though  he was contracted in the super 6 to fight Froch and Kessler rather than seeking them out. Catchweight would be quick to remind us he had home advantage too. I'm not sure having lost to kessler and many thinking he got lucky at home to Dirrell, that Froch was considered that fearsome a prospect at the time.

Floyd and manny both have a greater volume of really good wins for me.

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.....50 yr olds don't count..

We don't know how good he is....If Mugabi had retired after Hagler you could have said the same about that win..

We know how good Barrera types were though.

Ridiculous. He beat Ward first time round in most people's eyes - even if you decided to go for Ward, it was just about an even fight - and thrashed Jean Pascal (while dealing with Cleverly like no-one else has). He also dealt with Hopkins impressively.

Barrera was a better fighter than Kovalev, for sure, but there's no-one on Floyd's record at the time he fought them, better than Kovalev.

In most peoples eyes.....You know most people do you  ??........I thought Witherspoon beat Holmes for what it is worth.....

Kovo has never beaten a top fighter.............It isn't a statement you can refute.....

Not interested in any link to one of your Floyd articles............Probably has half of it missing....You have form when it comes to things like that.. Wink ...Goodnight !!

Press scored 75-25 for Kovalev (a fair representation of opinion on social media from my experience). Pascal and Hopkins are former lineal light heavyweight champs. He also arguably beat Ward (beat him clearly in my book).

The press didn't score it 75-25...Cherrypicked press may have it 75-25.....There are a helluva lot of newspapers and magazines in this World.

When the so called cherrypicked press had Oscar beating Tito they were dumbasses...Because you don't like Oscar..

Give it a rest....Kovo lost twice.

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Post by AdamT on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 12:12 pm

Kovalev did lose twice. If he didn't, then we may go through history and change everyone's records!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 3:02 pm

Don't really want to go over it again, but, while I scored the first fight for Kovalev, I had it close enough that a win to Ward wasn't a shocking decision, though it did require you to score nearly all the close rounds to him.

Second fight endind was unsatisfactory, not least because it would have been good to see if Ward, having just about turned the fight around before landing a cracking shot, could actually have got Kovalev out of there without throwing low blows.

Anyway, ultimately you play the ref, and if he's letting you get away with things then you might as well keep doing it. See also Wlad and clinching, Hatton's at times rather "rugged" style, etc.

For me, Ward has cemented his greatness with these two fights. Don't like the guy (the whole SOG thing I find absolutely nauseating), but there's no denying his record. Has fought and beaten everyone.

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 4:10 pm

AdamT wrote:Cotto at 154 Imo is better than Kovalev. Mosley destroyed Margarito before Floyd dismantled him.

Floyd thrashed 33-0 Corrales. Any version of Pacquiao and Marquez are better than Kov too. 50 year old Hopkins and Pascal (a guy Froch beat 50 years ago?). Cleverly? Lol

I wouldn't even put Cleverly near Hatton level. Face it Haz, for every odd hater you post an article from, there are many, many more praising Floyd.

You're a good troll though!

A prime Kovalev at his best win is a better win than a twice thrashed Cotto above his best weight (for me).

He's a better fighter than Corrales, who is the only other fighter you've named who was at his best weight (even that is dubious considering his struggles to make weight) and in his prime.

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 4:16 pm

AdamT wrote:Kovalev did lose twice. If he didn't, then we may go through history and change everyone's records!

Which posters regularly do on here. I've seen plenty of posts suggesting Marquez went 4-0 against Pacquiao!

You can cobble together that magic 114-113 score whichever way you like, you can't honestly say Ward was the better man in that first contest (I thought he was poor). Kovalev proved enough in that fight - however you scored it - to make a mockery of the claim he isn't a top fighter.

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Post by AdamT on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 4:44 pm

You are making a mockery of Floyd and Manny. Do you seriously believe Ward rates higher than those two? Maybe he will someday, but no way Jose. Not yet. Though he ranks miles higher than any active 160-75 fighter!

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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 5:09 pm

Jesus H that first bout still rattles some peoples cages

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 5:40 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
milkyboy wrote:I've already pointed you in the direction of round 7, BF. To be fair Ward had his head to the side, and responded with a borderline shot and an attempted punch on the back of the head himself! They're going to happen more if guys are ducking low.

Ward certainly pushes the rules more than kov, but hermy is in full conspiracy mode.


Milky, Weeks is a dirty stinking cont, a disgusting referee and a disgusting human being

I hear he speaks very highly of you.

The thing is hermy, if it was Ward who was stopped early and by a low blow, would you be on here ranting and raving about the ref being a Knut?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 7:40 pm

Firstly I think it's worth mentioning that whatever you think of him Kovalev is in fact a clean fighter in the ring so didn't resort to Ward's bully boy tactics even if he might have been entitled to seeing as the referee(if you can call Weeks that) patently wasn't protecting him

But let's be honest if he had indulged in a low blow or two Weeks would have been onto him like a ton of bricks

A corrupt individual Weeks  I hope he doesn't last much longer

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Post by AdamT on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 8:28 pm

Weeks is p4p number one after stopping Kovalev lol

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Post by hazharrison on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:37 pm

AdamT wrote:You are making a mockery of Floyd and Manny. Do you seriously believe Ward rates higher than those two? Maybe he will someday, but no way Jose. Not yet. Though he ranks miles higher than any active 160-75 fighter!

Not yet, but he's doing all the right things to eclipse them.

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Post by AdamT on Sun 25 Jun 2017, 5:18 pm

Boxing is full of potentially great fighters coming through.

Most talented fighter of the bunch is Vasyl. I will reserve judgement until he's at the end of his career, but he has the ability to be an atg.

Ward is p4p, but Loma Imo Is the best boxer on the planet.

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Post by hazharrison on Sun 25 Jun 2017, 7:41 pm

AdamT wrote:Boxing is full of potentially great fighters coming through.

Most talented fighter of the bunch is Vasyl. I will reserve judgement until he's at the end of his career, but he has the ability to be an atg.

Ward is p4p, but Loma Imo Is the best boxer on the planet.

Time not on Loma's side to put an ATG career together. He'd need to win monumental fights which just aren't there for him.

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Post by 3fingers on Sun 25 Jun 2017, 10:54 pm

This whole golovkins footwork is immense is ridiculous.

A boxer with a a good punch and chin only need to plod around the ring to cut it off. It's more to do With brain than fantastic footwork.


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 7:14 am

https://youtu.be/5o0WjGqY7Fo

https://youtu.be/GMXCsy7cCYA

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 7:58 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:https://youtu.be/5o0WjGqY7Fo

https://youtu.be/GMXCsy7cCYA

Hahaha, I thought you guys didn't believe in video analysis?

Precise is the best analyst out there

I have learned a lot about boxing from him

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