The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

[R!skysports]

First topic message reminder :

Bicker away......

A nice video to start with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds9dwHAfy_M


Glasgow Warriors are one of the two professional rugby union sides from Scotland. The team plays in the Pro14 league and in the European Professional Club Rugby tournaments. In the 2014-15 season they won the Pro12 title and became the first Scottish team to win a major trophy in rugby union's professional era. #theyrock

Edinburgh Rugby (formerly Edinburgh Reivers, Edinburgh Gunners and a real rugby team) is one of the two professional rugby teams from Scotland, although hard to determine if they play rugby. The club competes dances in the Pro14, along with Glasgow Warriors, its oldest rival. Since January 2017, Edinburgh plays most of its home games at Myreside Stadium with selected matches at BT Murrayfield.

[tigertattie]

Aye we got done by them. The thing that we came to hate there was they knew they shouldnt be that low but whilst playing us their coaching team/bench brought a cow bell so every time they broke through the midfield on the way to another try they'd ring it for like a minute and give us a some fairly foul abuse. The other thing that annoyed us was we lost about 6 guys to injury by the 75th minute, they were up by about a hunner points and the ref came to our captain when we had 13 guys left standing and said we should end this as its becoming dangerous. We were happy with that but Barnton then gave the ref some fairly awful back chat for it and then on their facebook page accused us of time wasting and mucking them about - we were just happy some of our players were alive by the end of that.

Its a shame because out of the club split/fallout we thought Barnton sounded like the "good guys" but they were a bit on the awful side to be honest

Its not their fault they are too good for the league but at the same time it doesn't help their cause acting like that. Did you used to play for RHC?

Really sorry to hear about your experience. I moved to London before the split happened so wasn't involved in any of the decision making behind it or the resulting fallout, but it was instigated by the Barnton side. I've had no involvement with the new club other than following how they are getting on using Facebook, as I know most of the guys from when I was playing, and have known them for years. I've got to say your experience sounds the complete opposite from what I would expect from the guys, and certainly nothing like that happened when I was there. I'm sure they would claim a different side of the story, but ultimately it isn't good that visiting clubs leave feeling aggrieved at the treatment they have received, and it is disappointing to hear. Probably best we don't get into it here as I have no knowledge of the game and this being a public forum and all!

tattie - I'm not sure declaring squads would really work, as although some players would mainly play 1st XV you'd have a lot who jump between 1st and 2nd XV level. You'd also have players who have been out long term injured and are needing to get gametime at the lower level first. Ultimately we need to increase the number of games players can play, and if you declare squads you'd likely end up with players not playing because they are listed in one squad but haven't been picked, but are banned from playing for the 2s.

Another bugbear of mine is the rules on substitutions - even at reserve level if you have no sub front rows you can have no subs at all. If you only have 1 reserve front row I think you can only then have another 2 subs. One of the main reasons games at that level get cancelled is due to a lack of props, and there were many times that we had players wanting to play but we couldn't pick them on the bench as we didn't have enough reserve front rows. How does that help anyone??

By Squads though I mean for the club. Almost like in the football, players should not be allowed to move from club to club during the season (unless the player has moved across the country for a job or the like)

I don't mind 1st XV players (the odd one) playing for the 2nd XV if he is returning from injury for game time, but what shouldn't happen is 1st XV players just dropping into the 2nd XV for no reason. A particular bad habit for clubs is at the end of the season if they have nothing to play for, they bring youngsters into the 1s to give them "experience" and then the 1s who have had to make way for them will sometimes drop into the 2s.

But the bad bad thing is the ringers, that why you should have to register with the club and not be allowed to play for other clubs once done. Again though the issue is that its the club that would need to police this. As with many things wrong with club rugby, it's the clubs themselves that need to make the changes to make things better.

As for substitutions, the rules are utterly barmy. I know a large part is that the rules are meant to protect clubs with small player pools so larger clubs can't come along and whoop em with subs all the time. But these same rules, as alluded to, harm smaller clubs when they can't field reserve front rows. The issue though is you don;t want to encourage folk not having cover as it then penalises the other team if scrums go uncontested for example.

But yeah. Ban the mercenaries

[RDW]

So the signing of Matt Scott has got me thinking about the first choice Edinburgh team next season, and it is worth getting excited about

1 Marfo/Dell/Dickinson/Sutherland (whoever is fit and on form!)
2 McInally
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 Toolis
6 Barclay
7 Watson
8 Mata

9 Fowles
10 Hickey
11 VDM
12 Scott
13 Bennett
14 Hoyland/Fife/Graham
15 Kinghorn

Subs – Marfo/Dell/Dickinson/Sutherland, Ford, Berghan, Charmichael, Bradbury/Ritchie/Crosbie, Kennedy, VDW, Dean

If everyone is fit we probably have some of the best front row depth in the league, particularly at loosehead. Our front 5 should be a match for anyone, and the backrow has a great blend with Barclay and Watson working well in tandem and Mata providing the go forward.

The backs are probably the biggest unknown, but there’s plenty to be excited about the Scott-Bennett partnership and there’s good backup in Dean and JJ. Halfbacks are a worry for me – with SHC gone unless we sign someone at 9 then our choices are rank average. Hickey has a great pedigree but how long will it take for him to get up to speed? VDW started well for us when he signed but has been a bit of a headless chicken lately (sound familiar for Edinburgh 10s?) – he may end up playing more at 15.

Plenty pace and skill in the back 3, with VDM looking like a really good signing with huge physicality and finishing ability.

So all very promising but we have been here before as a club so who knows what will happen – our pack is good enough to win us a lot of games but the halfbacks and backs generally will be the key thing that will dictate whether we can mount a genuine challenge in the league, or settle for scrapping for Champions Cup qualification again. To be fair given where we have been recently scrapping for Champions Cup is actually progress!

[BigGee]

I have to say I don't get the need for subs at all at the lower levels of the game. One of the reasons that most clubs have now lost a side is the need for the larger match day squads that every side now has. When I played the lower level teams were often lucky to have 15 players. If it was to much of a mismatch, making the game unenjoyable for everyone, the opposition would often give you a player to even things up a bit and make it interesting.

We have all played in these miss match games and I would say that the only thing worse than an 80-0 win is an 80-0 loss. In all honesty neither of them are particularly enjoyable.

There is also the issue of game time. Having been used to playing 80 mins every week, I can't imagine that regularly getting 20 mins off the bench would be that satisfying.

A girl I work with, who plays to a decent standard in the women's game has just left Wasps ladies, where she played in their second team and gone back to her feeder club purely on the basis that she was fed up hardly ever playing, but still being expected to train to the same degree. I could definitely see her point.

Social rugby still remains an important part of the game and accommodates the up and comings, bit past its and never going to be's all of whom still enjoy a decent run about on a Saturday afternoon.

Distinctions need to be made between these games and the more serious league games that go on at a higher level.

[BigGee]

Halfbacks are a worry for me – with SHC gone unless we sign someone at 9 then our choices are rank average. Hickey has a great pedigree but how long will it take for him to get up to speed? VDW started well for us when he signed but has been a bit of a headless chicken lately (sound familiar for Edinburgh 10s?) – he may end up playing more at 15.

Definitely need a decent SH, the missing link in that backline.

[RDW]

i can see what you're saying Biggee but you are implying there is a clear line between those who want to play competitive rugby and those who want to play social rugby - I think it is far more complicated that that. I mainly played 2s but we still wanted to win and played as competitively as our abilities allowed. Given that a lot of players aren't fit at that level subs were most definitely required, and there will have been games we lost because we had no subs due to a lack of front row subs so ended up either having to keep a player on the pitch who was totally knackered or go down to 14 or 13 men due to injury. at the time time there was someone watching the game who could have been on the bench if it wasn't for the stupid rule!

[BigGee]

I guess I played in a different era and no one, even at international level was subbed unless they were injured and everyone expected to play 80 mins, no matter how fit or unfit they were.

Changing that has definitely had an effect on participation levels. Clubs I played for regularly put out 4 or 5 sides each week. Now they are down to 2 or 3.

Certainly in terms of getting people to participate in sport, that is not necessarily a good thing.

[RDW]

This place is become a bit serious lately - anyone got any good stories? Jimbo's daily struggles with old age and technology, IanBru's ventures into being the next Gareth Malone, FES's debate about whether to hire an extra butler or not, how Spoons' stalking of WP Nel is getting on etc etc?

[des]

My third daughter was born on the last day of September last year. Shortly after we narrowly lost to Lienster at the RDS. Being a third child, we were running low on names we liked but I took inspiration from an Edinburgh player.

Let play guess my daughters name.

[BigGee]

Cornelia?

[RDW]

Christine?

P.s. congratulations!

[BigGee]

With three daughters I am not sure if it is congratulations or good luck?

I have got two and I am and always will be blessed but skint!

[Hazel Sapling]

Claire (Denton)? Philippa (Burleigh)? Roselyn (Ford)?

[des]

None correct yet.

They're all a bit young for me to be feeling the financial pressures that I've heard of but my wife is not a hardened shopaholic so I'm hoping we'll be relatively safe.

[BigGee]

None correct yet.

They're all a bit young for me to be feeling the financial pressures that I've heard of but my wife is not a hardened shopaholic so I'm hoping we'll be relatively safe.

Keep telling yourself that!

[BigGee]

Nellie?

[des]

Nellie?

Almost there.

[EWT Spoons]

Sam(antha)

[Scottrf]

Ellie.

[EWT Spoons]

Nellie?

Almost there.

Willem Petrus......I'll be honest this is a long shot

[des]

Sam(antha)

That was the initial suggestion but no.

Ellie is getting slightly cooler than Nellie (in a warmer/colder search way)

[des]

Nellie?

Almost there.

Willem Petrus......I'll be honest this is a long shot

Close, in a away.
Or maybe not.

Go back to Nellie and work from there.

[Scottrf]

Nelly. What's the prize?

[des]

Nelly. What's the prize?

Closest yet but not quite right.

[Scottrf]

Nella.

[des]

Nella.

Again, close but not quite right.

[Scottrf]

Nelle!

[des]

If you did a Ven diagram for the last three attempts the intersection would give you the answer.

[RDW]

You're going to have to tell us des!

[jimbopip]

NELL!!!!

Strugles against old age and technology indeed.

He named her after the old king's favourite greengrocer.

[jimbopip]

p.s. struggles against spelling too.

[Scottrf]

Nelli

[des]

NELL!!!!

Strugles against old age and technology indeed.

He named her after the old king's favourite greengrocer.

Correct.  Not bad maths for an English teacher.

Although I suspect Scottrf had it a while ago and was just messing about.

I was originally pushing for Nel but my wife preferred Nell.  The inspiration for it only recently come out and she didn't look too pleased that our daughter was named after a tighthead prop that loves shortbread.

[jimbopip]

des, you would be safe as long as your wife isn't built like a tight head prop who likes shortbread.

p.s. I was quoting Tam O'Shanter today,

the miles between him and hame
where sits his sullen sulking dame
gathering her brows like the gathering storm
nursing her wrath to keep it warm.

[des]

Not quite the same pedigree of Tam O'Shanter but my favourite bit of Scots literature of the moment is "The Tale o the Wee Mowdie".

It contains some beautiful scatological onomatopoeia.  We're like the Eskimos with snow.

[RDW]

Not quite the same pedigree of Tam O'Shanter but my favourite bit of Scots literature of the moment is "The Tale o the Wee Mowdie".

It contains some beautiful scatological onomatopoeia.  We're like the Eskimos with snow.

Oh God Jimbo has found a play mate!

[des]

Not quite the same pedigree of Tam O'Shanter but my favourite bit of Scots literature of the moment is "The Tale o the Wee Mowdie".

It contains some beautiful scatological onomatopoeia.  We're like the Eskimos with snow.

Oh God Jimbo has found a play mate!

I'm an engineer and don't have higher English. That is the only way I know how to describe the book.

[RDW]

Not quite the same pedigree of Tam O'Shanter but my favourite bit of Scots literature of the moment is "The Tale o the Wee Mowdie".

It contains some beautiful scatological onomatopoeia.  We're like the Eskimos with snow.

Oh God Jimbo has found a play mate!

I'm an engineer and don't have higher English.  That is the only way I know how to describe the book.  

What kind of engineer? If it is structural I've found a play mate too - we can take about concrete all day!

If it is mechanical then you're dead to me.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Not quite the same pedigree of Tam O'Shanter but my favourite bit of Scots literature of the moment is "The Tale o the Wee Mowdie".

It contains some beautiful scatological onomatopoeia.  We're like the Eskimos with snow.

Oh God Jimbo has found a play mate!

I'm an engineer and don't have higher English.  That is the only way I know how to describe the book.  

What kind of engineer? If it is structural I've found a play mate too - we can take about concrete all day!

If it is mechanical then you're dead to me.

But if its mechanical then I've got myself a buddy! The only reason RDW spends so much time on here is that 90% of his job is waiting for concrete to dry so he's got plenty of time on his hands

[des]

Not quite the same pedigree of Tam O'Shanter but my favourite bit of Scots literature of the moment is "The Tale o the Wee Mowdie".

It contains some beautiful scatological onomatopoeia.  We're like the Eskimos with snow.

Oh God Jimbo has found a play mate!

I'm an engineer and don't have higher English.  That is the only way I know how to describe the book.  

What kind of engineer? If it is structural I've found a play mate too - we can take about concrete all day!

If it is mechanical then you're dead to me.

But if its mechanical then I've got myself a buddy! The only reason RDW spends so much time on here is that 90% of his job is waiting for concrete to dry so he's got plenty of time on his hands

Embedded systems, so mainly software with a bit of electronic.  I originally studied mechanical but switched to software in year 2.

[jimbopip]

I'd just like to point out that I'm teaching Maths this year, which is why I bit on the Venn diagram comment.

[tigertattie]

I'd like to point out that software engineering is not engineering, it's computer geeks typing into a computer!

[RDW]

Dougie Fife will make his 100th appearance for Edinburgh after being named at fullback for tomorrow night’s Guinness PRO14 meeting with Dragons at Ebbw Vale’s Eugene Cross Park (Friday 23 February, kick-off 7.30pm).

Head Coach Richard Cockerill has made just two changes to the side who earned a dramatic victory away to Ulster last weekend.

After crossing the whitewash at the Kingspan Stadium, Jason Harries keeps his place on the wing. The Welshman is joined on the opposite flank by Duhan van der Merwe, Fife at fullback.

In the midfield, James Johnstone returns to the starting XV to partner Chris Dean. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Jaco van der Walt continue their half-back partnership.

An unchanged front-row sees Neil Cochrane pack down alongside Murray McCallum and Samoan international Jordan Lay, whilst last weekend’s try-scorer, Lewis Carmichael, and club captain Fraser McKenzie keep their place in the second-row.

After an impactful performance from the bench against Ulster, Magnus Bradbury returns to first team action alongside John Hardie and Bill Mata in the back-row.

Head Coach, Richard Cockerill said: “It’s another game that we want to win and so we’ve chosen a relatively unchanged side, who we believe have the quality to go to Ebbw Vale and get a result.

“Although we were happy with the win against Ulster, there are still lots of areas of our game in which we need improve, and if we don’t them right against the Dragons, then we’ll be punished.

“They’re a dangerous side, who at home are capable of beating anyone. So we’ll need to be at our very best in all facets of our game.”



Edinburgh team to face Dragons in the Guinness PRO14 at Eugene Cross Park on Friday 23 February (kick-off 7.30pm)



15. Dougie Fife (99)



14. Jason Harries (7)

13. James Johnstone (14)

12. Chris Dean (59)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (10)



10. Jaco van der Walt (10)

9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (102)



1. Jordan Lay (4)

2. Neil Cochrane (68)

3. Murray McCallum (35)

4. Fraser McKenzie (97) CAPTAIN

5. Lewis Carmichael (25)

6. Magnus Bradbury (45)

7. John Hardie (26)

8. Bill Mata (30)



Replacements: 16. Cameron Fenton (8); 17. Rory Sutherland (59); 18. Elliot Millar-Mills (3); 19. Cornell du Preez (97); 20. Luke Crosbie (10); 21. Nathan Fowles (52); 22. Duncan Weir (27); 23. Junior Rasolea (24)

[RDW]

Strangely Toolis isn't included - I'm assuming he's in reserve for Scotland.

[EWT Spoons]

https://www.606v2.com/t67233-dragons-vs-edinburgh-23-02

[des]

I'd like to point out that software engineering is not engineering, it's computer geeks typing into a computer!

There are many domains of software engineering that aren't proper engineering.  

However it is real engineering when you're connecting mains voltage directly to your device and you have safety critical elements to the design.  It's also real engineering when you can't assume a software upgrade is available and you have to get it right fist time.

[RDW]

I'd like to point out that software engineering is not engineering, it's computer geeks typing into a computer!

There are many domains of software engineering that aren't proper engineering.  

However it is real engineering when you're connecting mains voltage directly to your device and you have safety critical elements to the design.  It's also real engineering when you can't assume a software upgrade is available and you have to get it right fist time.

That's you told tattie!

[jimbopip]

I'd like to point out that software engineering is not engineering, it's computer geeks typing into a computer!

when you're connecting mains voltage directly to your device .

Do that too often and you'll only ever have three daughters.

[lostinwales]

I am a CFD engineer. It means I get to make pretty pictures to help me tell real engineers how to do their job

[RDW]

This is all turning a bit Monty Python - I'm an engineer and so's my wife!

[EWT Spoons]

I'm not an engineer of any kind, nor am I a lawyer.

I think I'm in the minority in this place.

[Sponsored content]