England Six Nations Thread

[Cumbrian]

First topic message reminder :

Squad (From RFU Website):

Backs

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Nathan Earle (Saracens) *
Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins) * **
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards

Back five
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) *
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Front row
Lewis Boyce (Harlequins) *
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby) *
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs) *
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)

Players unavailable
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Will Spencer (Worcester Warriors)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Uncapped *
Apprentice player **

Fixtures:

*All kick-off times in GMT.


Italy v England
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Sunday 4th February 2018
Kick Off: 3:00pm

England v Wales
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 10th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

Scotland v England
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Saturday 24th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

France v England
Stade de France, Paris
Saturday 10th March 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 17th March 2018
Kick Off: 2:45pm

Officialdom:

Italy v England

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

England v Wales

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Mathieu Reynal (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Scotland v England

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

France v England

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

England v Ireland

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

[ChequeredJersey]

I really don’t want to see Robshaw play much of a match at 8. He’ll cope but is way too close to Wood at 8. This is all way too close to that backrow anyway!

As for what do Italy bring, O’Shea knows what to target and Italy usually stay close until they run out of any steam and concede a ton late on.


Mostly i don’t think we’ll score a lot early on, though I hope we do

[No 7&1/2]

Very true. The only time weve come.under severe pressure at the lineout is vs ireland. POM is so so good. If we get the results we hope for its him playing for ireland who can most upset us.edit: Blame my fat fingers for upstairs!

[ChequeredJersey]

I guess one of the names CJ mentioned would be in line.

Struggling to think of any more EQ number 8s in the league - Waldrom/Thompson the others that spring to mind

Morgan
Chisholm in theory

[ChequeredJersey]

Very true. The only time weve come.under severe pressure at the lineout is vs ireland. POM is so so good. If we get the results we hope for its him playing for ireland who can most upstairs us.

Irish pack will be a challenge, looks good in every area but I think we’ll have a few players back

[LondonTiger]

Think it’ll be close to start then the bench will see us pull away after 60. Not keen on te backrow but meh

Why?

What is it about the Italy team you think will be able to live with this team for 60 mins? Unless you think England are going to play terribly again?

I don’t see us getting a huge advantage in either the gain line or breakdown, and I’m not sure re the scrum, and think without that we are over reliant in this side on spreading the ball wide to make any breaks and Italy will take a while to break down. We will lead at 60, but not by a lot. We will finish at least 20 points ahead, probably more

With respect, you still haven't told me anything about Italy.

When looking at their side, and considering they lose and lose heavily with great regularity, why do you think Italy will be able to match us in so many areas?

If Ford can play more like the 2015 version (so offering a running threat as well as kicking and distribution) and Italy kick loosely to our back 3, we could see us build a lead early.

However past performances in Rome by both teams indicate it could be close for a while at least.

2016 Only two points in it at H/T before England pulled away in the last 25 minutes to win by 31
2014 England on the front foot from the very start and dominated
2012 15-19
2010 12-17
2008 19-23

[No 7&1/2]

Chisholm would do well. Just thinking from jones choices he s more likely to look inside the squad for a short term fix.

[ChequeredJersey]

Think it’ll be close to start then the bench will see us pull away after 60. Not keen on te backrow but meh

Why?

What is it about the Italy team you think will be able to live with this team for 60 mins? Unless you think England are going to play terribly again?

I don’t see us getting a huge advantage in either the gain line or breakdown, and I’m not sure re the scrum, and think without that we are over reliant in this side on spreading the ball wide to make any breaks and Italy will take a while to break down. We will lead at 60, but not by a lot. We will finish at least 20 points ahead, probably more

With respect, you still haven't told me anything about Italy.

When looking at their side, and considering they lose and lose heavily with great regularity, why do you think Italy will be able to match us in so many areas?

But you’re probably right- we will probably win easily and I’m probably being overly pessimistic.

The idea of a 30-3 backrow set up just gives me the heebyjees

[yappysnap]

Good strong England team selected.

Surprised by Teo starting and that Youngs gets the nod over an inform Care. Great to see Nowell, and Robshaw in there.

Interesting to see how the back row goes.

[ChequeredJersey]

Chisholm would do well. Just thinking from jones choices he s more likely to look inside the squad for a short term fix.

There’s no 8 cover within the squad though. Robshaw has only played there for Quins a few times mid game!
I guess Hughes and Haskell may be back soon?

[No 7&1/2]

Just my thoughts on what Jones will do. Of course therrs haskell coming back in the france game is it? Hughes out for the tournament I think.

[Poorfour]

Chisholm would do well. Just thinking from jones choices he s more likely to look inside the squad for a short term fix.

There’s no 8 cover within the squad though. Robshaw has only played there for Quins a few times mid game!
I guess  Hughes and Haskell may be back soon?

It all depends on timing - I guess the assumption is that Mercer will be available for the rest of the 6N. That said, I would be very happy (as an England fan) and a bit worried (as a Quins fan) if Eddie were to have a look at Chisholm. Now he's back from his long concussion lay off, he's in top form and offers a genuine option at 6 or 8. I can't work out, though, whether he's just been injured at the wrong time for Eddie to take a look at him, or if there's something else that Eddie's looking for.

[TightHEAD]

Good strong England team selected.

Surprised by Teo starting and that Youngs gets the nod over an inform Care. Great to see Nowell, and Robshaw in there.

Interesting to see how the back row goes.

Care goes missing if he starts games, better to come on in the 2nd half and wipe the smile off of Conors face.

[ChequeredJersey]

Yeah, Quins would be screwed with Robshaw, Bothma, Clifford all still missing and Lamb away as well. Would leave backrow of Wallace, White/Ward and Luamanu with cover from Glynn though- we’ve had worse crises!

[Cumbrian]

The Daily Heil is predicting Itoje to start at 6 and Joseph to get the nod at 13. I won't say this very often but the Mail are generally right (that hurts) when it comes to rugby. They are suggesting the team will be something like:

01 Vunipola
02. Hartley
03. Cole
04. Lauchbury
05. Lawes
06. Itoje
07. Robshaw
08. Simmonds

09. Youngs
10. Ford

11.Watson
12. farrell
13. Joseph
14. May
15. Brown

I am glad to be able to say the Mail is wrong, even if they did make look a bit of a prawn.

[LondonTiger]

https://www.606v2.com/t67151-italy-vs-england-matchday-thread#3670107

[cascough]

As for what do Italy bring, O’Shea knows what to target and Italy usually stay close until they run out of any steam and concede a ton late on.

Mostly i don’t think we’ll score a lot early on, though I hope we do

You still haven't told me anything. What will Italy target? Do Italy usually stay close? I don't think so. Italy are poor, and looking at their squad I can't possibly see anything which suggest they will be able to trouble England. This is all on England. If we perform, there's nothing to worry about (Conor O Shea has said the same this week). If we don't perform, then it'll be a different story. But you can say that before EVERY game, regardless of the opposition (the underperforming part that is).

Italy aren't very good.

[LondonTiger]

As for what do Italy bring, O’Shea knows what to target and Italy usually stay close until they run out of any steam and concede a ton late on.

Mostly i don’t think we’ll score a lot early on, though I hope we do

You still haven't told me anything. What will Italy target? Do Italy usually stay close? I don't think so. Italy are poor, and looking at their squad I can't possibly see anything which suggest they will be able to trouble England. This is all on England. If we perform, there's nothing to worry about (Conor O Shea has said the same this week). If we don't perform, then it'll be a different story. But you can say that before EVERY game, regardless of the opposition (the underperforming part that is).

Italy aren't very good.

From the stats I put higher up, yes they usually do.

I do accept that if England play well then Italy do not look strong enough to stay close.

[yappysnap]

Italy aren't usually very good, but England can be slow starters and Italy can drag us down to their level, making it s scrap which they enjoy.

[ChequeredJersey]

As for what do Italy bring, O’Shea knows what to target and Italy usually stay close until they run out of any steam and concede a ton late on.

Mostly i don’t think we’ll score a lot early on, though I hope we do

You still haven't told me anything. What will Italy target? Do Italy usually stay close? I don't think so. Italy are poor, and looking at their squad I can't possibly see anything which suggest they will be able to trouble England. This is all on England. If we perform, there's nothing to worry about (Conor O Shea has said the same this week). If we don't perform, then it'll be a different story. But you can say that before EVERY game, regardless of the opposition (the underperforming part that is).

Italy aren't very good.

Italy do usually stay close to England in Rome though

[SecretFly]

Good strong England team selected.

Surprised by Teo starting and that Youngs gets the nod over an inform Care. Great to see Nowell, and Robshaw in there.

Interesting to see how the back row goes.

Care goes missing if he starts games, better to come on in the 2nd half and wipe the smile off of Conors face.

He won't be smiling. It'll be a miserable auld day.

[Scottrf]

I guess one of the names CJ mentioned would be in line.

Struggling to think of any more EQ number 8s in the league - Waldrom/Thompson the others that spring to mind

Harrison.

[TightHEAD]

Biggest WUM ever.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/six-nations-super-computer-just-14234994

[Scottrf]

Biggest WUM ever.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/six-nations-super-computer-just-14234994

I'm using it for the prediction competition.

[beshocked]

Biggest WUM ever.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/six-nations-super-computer-just-14234994

I'm using it for the prediction competition.

You weren't joking.

The biggest call I hope is wrong, is France vs Ireland.

Sure the smart money would be on Ireland, they are in form etc but I can't just dismiss the French that easily.

[Rugby Fan]

Biggest WUM ever.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/six-nations-super-computer-just-14234994

I'm using it for the prediction competition.

I think we should use it to decide the 2019 World Cup winner. That way, all international teams can get a head start on appointing coaching teams, and we can address player welfare by having everyone take the next couple of years off.

[TightHEAD]

Italy don't score more than 16 points in a game all 6 nations.

Madness, those predictions will be fun to look at once its all played out.

[TightHEAD]

I sense a lack of buzz around this game and 6 nations.

I think deep down we all know England are not going to win it this year.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Serious question, where do England see the biggest challenge this year? France? Ireland at home? Or Scotland at Murrayfield? I personally think you'll win the tournament but either us or Ireland will turn you over. Haven't made my mind up yet. Might have made my mind uo after tomorrow...

[Sgt_Pooly]

Ireland at home.....followed by Wales, followed by Scotland imo.

[Scottrf]

Serious question, where do England see the biggest challenge this year? France? Ireland at home? Or Scotland at Murrayfield? I personally think you'll win the tournament but either us or Ireland will turn you over. Haven't made my mind up yet. Might have made my mind uo after tomorrow...

In terms of difficulty:

Ireland at home (I'd have them favourites if the fixtures were different).
Scotland away
Wales at home
France away
Italy away

[lostinwales]

Ireland are a good team. I think we are better overall but they do have some real beasts in the pack.

I do think the standards by which the teams are assessed by the 'meedja' are different. Ireland for instance are always being talked up and they can be over critical of England. I saw one article talking about Ireland 'consistency' but it is the one thing that they have not shown to date, although there is no obvious reason why they should not be more consistent. They did dominate the 6N for a couple of seasons but I suspect they are still dining off two wins, New Zealand of course (in circumstances that could be twisted every bit as our last victory over them) and a tight 4 point win in crap conditions over England in Dublin.

I still see articles about England being boring or no good in the backs, but that is just crazy too. We are no.2 in the world rankings, having only lost one game in 2 years (best record in the world) We have found multiple ways of winning, scoring a lot of points on the way, but everything is still low key.

I know part of the success is as much down to the weakness of the other top teams, but you can only beat what is on front of you. We don't have as many world beaters as we did 15 years ago, but we do have some. We also have a great coach and overall a seriously good team.

[beshocked]

Ireland home
France away
Scotland away
Wales home
Italy away

[ChequeredJersey]

Challenges-

Ireland home
Scotland away
Wales home
France away (not much ahead of)
Italy away

[Barney McGrew did it]

England will win their homes games. We may struggle to win all our away ones though. If we go into the final game with 4 wins, we'll win the GS.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Ireland are a good team. I think we are better overall but they do have some real beasts in the pack.

I do think the standards by which the teams are assessed by the 'meedja' are different. Ireland for instance are always being talked up and they can be over critical of England. I saw one article talking about Ireland 'consistency' but it is the one thing that they have not shown to date, although there is no obvious reason why they should not be more consistent. They did dominate the 6N for a couple of seasons but I suspect they are still dining off two wins, New Zealand of course (in circumstances that could be twisted every bit as our last victory over them) and a tight 4 point win in crap conditions over England in Dublin.

I still see articles about England being boring or no good in the backs, but that is just crazy too. We are no.2 in the world rankings, having only lost one game in 2 years (best record in the world) We have found multiple ways of winning, scoring a lot of points on the way, but everything is still low key.

I know part of the success is as much down to the weakness of the other top teams, but you can only beat what is on front of you. We don't have as many world beaters as we did 15 years ago, but we do have some. We also have a great coach and overall a seriously good team.

Some might say, that you have been ducking NZ a bit. I think both sides are guilty of ducking each other tbh but as impressive as England's record over the last 2 years you haven't played the best team in the world. An error in my opinion since Ireland turned them over and We (Scotland) pushed them all the way.

I certainly can't make the call between Ireland and England for this championship. Ireland's backrow is amazing and I really feel not having Billy V will be detrimental to England's play style. The man is a wrecking machine.

What are your opinions on the full back debate? Is it best sticking with Brown or would you rather see Watson getting more time at 15?

[Poorfour]

England will win their homes games. We may struggle to win all our away ones though. If we go into the final game with 4 wins, we'll win the GS.

I think England will struggle in all their games, but if they can stay in touch until late in the game they are equally capable of winning them all. I'm quietly confident as long as we don't have an injury crisis.

[Scottrf]

Ducking NZ? We offered them a match...

[No 7&1/2]

Yup. Offered to pay big bucks for them to play last ais instead of baa baa s. They honoured their match.
In terms of challenges and it's a nice twist on conversations, I'd go with ireland then scotland. I think we stand a chance of losing against 4 teams. I think we'll get a Gs. Very much looking forward to this though should be great.

[lostinwales]

blah blah...

I know part of the success is as much down to the weakness of the other top teams, but you can only beat what is on front of you. We don't have as many world beaters as we did 15 years ago, but we do have some. We also have a great coach and overall a seriously good team.

Some might say, that you have been ducking NZ a bit. I think both sides are guilty of ducking each other tbh but as impressive as England's record over the last 2 years you haven't played the best team in the world. An error in my opinion since Ireland turned them over and We (Scotland)  pushed them all the way.

I certainly can't make the call between Ireland and England for this championship. Ireland's backrow is amazing and I really feel not having Billy V will be detrimental to England's play style. The man is a wrecking machine.

What are your opinions on the full back debate? Is it best sticking with Brown or would you rather see Watson getting more time at 15?

I assume Eddie sees Brown as the best option for the RWC, and who are we to argue.

Ignoring that it would be nice to see more of Watson, or possibly Daly (who seems to have everything you could ever want in an FB) in that role. Brown is definitely in the last stages of his international career, and does seem like yet another player who may be developing a tendency towards concussions. But he does really add the kind of attitude that Eddie rates very highly. I also think he can still be effective running the ball back and is considered a safe pair of hands, and he is also someone who will always take responsibility for a situation. In other words I think he helps to bring out the best of the players around him, even if he never passes them the ball.

Part of me would have loved to see the May/Watson/Solomona back 3 that seemed a distinct possibility when both Brown and Nowell were still crocked

[No 7&1/2]

Do you reckon earle may have jumped ahead of solomona now given the cut down squad or that earle just benefitted from the extra time more?

[lostinwales]

Do you reckon earle may have jumped ahead of solomona now given the cut down squad or that earle just benefitted from the extra time more?

Dunno - I don't see enough of Solomona to tell if he's developed an all round game to back up his wonderful attacking skills. I'd bet it is the latter. It is possible that Earle provides a more flexible backup option than Solomona now Nowell is fit.

[Cumbrian]

Watching Wales vs. Scotland, the way both teams are kicking the ball is very promising from our point of view.  They keep kicking long with no real chase and poor coverage in the back field.  This will be meat and drink to George Ford if Wales do it next week.

[No 7&1/2]

Both teams will get better.

[Cumbrian]

Possibly, not sure Scotland could be much worse.

[Scottrf]

Not really sure in the case of Wales. They've played really well. You would hope Scotland will.

[No 7&1/2]

Really? The most even 25 0 game I've ever seen! And I realise how ridiculous that sounds!

[Scottrf]

Really I think it might be their best performance of the 6N yeah.

[Cumbrian]

It is funny how two people can watch the same thing and see totally different things. In my opinion Scotland have been awful. They look like headless chickens with the ball, I've lost count the number of knock-ons. Their defence has been far too narrow too, Wales don't really seem to have had to do too much to get such a big lead.

[No 7&1/2]

Best performance of he 2018 6ns definitively.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Scotland are offering next to nothing, they've not looked like scoring. Wales have looked a class above....Russell has had a mare.

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