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Post by Diggers on Sat 29 Sep 2018, 1:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

Re Sterling, he’s got more PL assists than any English player in the last year, 3rd most of anyone. As well as a shedload of goals, what a poopie player he is!!
Could this be it for Jose, I certainly hope so.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 12:24 pm

McLaren wrote:I only recently became aware of Femi but so far I have been pretty impressed with him and cannot see how you could make the argument that he is ignorant. He is one of the few people in the public sphere who talks about #Brexit from a technical/legal (he worked in an EU legal department I think) position instead of just personal misconceptions about the EU.  

Super, would you explain why you think he is ignorant?


 

I knew you would find him impressive Mac, because you're easily impressed by soundbites rather than actual factual points. He's better than the revolting Owen Jones, but he's still just a sixth form hysterical shrieker. He simply seems to speak convincingly about a point without anything to back it up.

I already have explained Mac, I listened to a couple of interviews that he has done and he was rank amateur. He's also claimed that people over 50 shouldn't have decision making power. That's incredibly arrogant and ignorant.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 1:47 pm

Can you remember what sort of things he was getting wrong?
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Post by JAS on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 2:22 pm

I see the fashion police were out in force again yesterday as some guy had the audacity to wear an anorak to the cenotaph and it was generally portrayed as hugely disrespectful and a betrayal of the fallen!!
I’m making the assumption that this'll be the same morons that insist on golfers wearing knee high white socks if wearing shorts.

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Post by Davie on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 2:38 pm

At least he didn't miss the ceremony because of a little rain like someone else I could mention

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Post by NedB-H on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 4:40 pm

I’ve seen it suggested, by right-leaning journalists, that Corbyn deliberately wore a scruffy coat to stoke controversy and shore up his “us against them” narrative. They dug out a photo of him wearing a smart black wool coat as evidence that he has the wardrobe when he wants it.

Begs the question of why the right wingers have fallen directly into a trap they’ve spotted for themselves though.

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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 5:04 pm

Davie wrote:At least he didn't miss the ceremony because of a little rain like someone else I could mention
I guess he didn’t have the same hairdo to look after...?

The official excuse to turn down a last minute motor cage was that “Trump did not want to cause that kind of unexpected disruption to the city and its people“. Not really surprising as we all know he prefers expected disruption.

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Post by JAS on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 5:25 pm

NedB-H wrote:I’ve seen it suggested, by right-leaning journalists, that Corbyn deliberately wore a scruffy coat to stoke controversy and shore up his “us against them” narrative. They dug out a photo of him wearing a smart black wool coat as evidence that he has the wardrobe when he wants it.

Begs the question of why the right wingers have fallen directly into a trap they’ve spotted for themselves though.

...a) because they just can’t help themselves
b) because they think it works (to be fair it does to a point with the gullible all too eager to jump on the personal insult bus - that being said though there will come a point when even the gullible will see through what the right wing press are trying to do, not sure that moment is here yet though)

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Post by super_realist on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 6:59 pm

McLaren wrote:Can you remember what sort of things he was getting wrong?

It was more his assertion that Brexit was only a concern for the young. He was also wrong about why the EU was set up, he claimed it was for peace in Europe, which of course it wasn't.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 7:02 pm

JAS wrote:
NedB-H wrote:I’ve seen it suggested, by right-leaning journalists, that Corbyn deliberately wore a scruffy coat to stoke controversy and shore up his “us against them” narrative. They dug out a photo of him wearing a smart black wool coat as evidence that he has the wardrobe when he wants it.

Begs the question of why the right wingers have fallen directly into a trap they’ve spotted for themselves though.

...a) because they just can’t help themselves
b) because they think it works (to be fair it does to a point with the gullible all too eager to jump on the personal insult bus - that being said though there will come a point when even the gullible will see through what the right wing press are trying to do, not sure that moment is here yet though)

He's a pretty despicable man in general though.

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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 7:39 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Can you remember what sort of things he was getting wrong?

It was more his assertion that Brexit was only a concern for the young. He was also wrong about why the EU was set up, he claimed it was for peace in Europe, which of course it wasn't.
Well it was the underlying reason. I can’t see why you slam him for saying that.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 7:53 pm

I thought the EU came out of an agreement to help coal and steel production get going in france, italy, germany, Belgium and some others after ww2?
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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 7:59 pm

McLaren wrote:I thought the EU came out of an agreement to help coal and steel production get going in france, italy, germany, Belgium and some others after ww2?
That was the ‘operational’ part of it. The underlying rationale was that free/increased international trade would essentially make war unthinkable or at least de facto impossible. History has proven that to be correct. Today you’ll find no closer allies than Germany and France.


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Post by McLaren on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:01 pm

Super

I have never heard him say Brexit is only a concern for the young but he does point out that it will disproportionately effect them, the maths is pretty simple. He has chosen to start a campaign group which focuses on promoting the views of young people who would prefer #Brexit is not actually gone ahead with, so it is no surprise that is what he talks about when given a platform.

If you put aside his angle on Brexit, which is that of a young concerned person, do you still think he is ignorant about the structures and laws of the EU?
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Post by McLaren on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:04 pm

pedro wrote:
McLaren wrote:I thought the EU came out of an agreement to help coal and steel production get going in france, italy, germany, Belgium and some others after ww2?
That was the ‘operational’ part of it. The underlying rationale was that free/increased international trade would essentially make war unthinkable or at least de facto impossible.

Makes sense if all their fuel needs are intertwined.

You also hear that the French were particularly vulnerable in WW2 because all their coal mines were in the east of the country and easy for the Germans to get at, and subsequently that is why the French went full in for Nuclear. Building the nuclear power stations in the west.
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Post by dynamark on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 9:12 pm

Is it just me but I'm sure Jeremy Corbett was wearing a red tie and everyone else managed to find a black one in the bottom of the drawer.
I am pretty sure if we do get another election soon us wise folk will just not find a way to elect a labour government . Too big a step

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Post by Diggers on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:33 pm

Dyna, just a thought, but have you noticed what a complete and utter shambles the current govt are making of literally everything?
Brexit (I really do wish that when people talk about the dangers of a Labour govt they would remember that this whole travesty was as a result of Tory infighting, nothing to do with what the public might want. I’d struggle though think of a bigger mess that anyone could cause...and we haven’t even come close to seeing the real fallout yet)
Welfare State
Education
Transport
Law and order
Literally everything, I can’t think of a single positive thing they have done, though I’m willing to be enlightened.



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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 11:10 pm

Dyna, are you blaming the Tories for putting the EU membership up for referendum, or for the mess it has and will result in?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 11:26 pm

pedro wrote:Dyna, are you blaming the Tories for putting the EU membership up for referendum, or for the mess it has and will result in?

I blame Cameron - effing idiot going for a referendum and then abdicating responsibility for supporting his view. Limp-wristed, entitled, chinless wonder, arseh0le. Can't stand him.

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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 11:47 pm

However you put it the EU is just a loser case for the Tories. In this respect Camerons job is similar to controlling a US home crowd during a Ryder Cup: a baying mob of imbeciles (as Willetts bro would say) and then some are good people I guess (as DT would say). Personally I’m a bit in two minds about going for the referendum as I believe you should never blame a government for the stupidity of the people. From now on it’s only damage control.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 12:06 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:Dyna, are you blaming the Tories for putting the EU membership up for referendum, or for the mess it has and will result in?

I blame Cameron - effing idiot going for a referendum and then abdicating responsibility for supporting his view. Limp-wristed, entitled, chinless wonder, arseh0le. Can't stand him.

And he porked a pig. For all the crazy Trumps manages he hasn't topped that yet.
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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:52 am

It didn’t have to happen, then like a Kwini said, he ran away, leaving the mess to be handled by one of the most incompetent Home Secretaries we have ever had. Listen to a police officer or a fire man talk about May abd her negotiation skills and you won’t be surprised by where we are at today.
I’m not saying that Labour would do better (though some of their policies are to me a no brainier), but to link wisdom as a word with this shower of infighting, self interested, incompetent (equally ideological driven as any leftie) cockwombles is beyond madness.

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Post by beninho on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:10 am

I am surprised how people still believe in the tories, but I am also not surprised as we have a lot of people with right wing views in this country, which is why the newspapers pander to them.

The hatred of corbyn is media driven and people have fallen for it, people talk of Venezuela, with no real basis, but its because they've read it somewhere.

The country is a mess, and it's all down to the tory party, 8 years in power and what to show of it.

But I'd take Cameron back over May! I hate how politics has becone about pandering to the left and right minorities. Wheres the centre ground gone?

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Post by dynamark on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:34 am

True Cameron gave us this issue trying to play politics but I assume expected the opposite result.
Referendum shows why we should leave decisions to a competent government.
Digs I just don't feel the country would vote for McDonald and Jezza if they were standing in the booth to trust them with the cash drawer..Not saying Tories are great but just running around throwing money at issues does not fix them.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:37 am

The problem with centre politics is that you can find yourself pleasing nobody on certain issues (a bit like Mays Brexit deal). People other emphasise the right and the left, there are lots of people who are a little right or left of centre who won’t like particularly centrist policies, or slightly right of centre people who feel a supposedly centrist party (new Labour) is too far to left of centre.
So after a while the divisions grow larger and deeper, helped out by Iraq, a financial crash abd an EU referendum.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:38 am

dynamark wrote:True Cameron gave us this issue trying to play politics but I assume expected the opposite result.
Referendum shows why we should leave decisions to a competent government.
Digs I just don't feel the country would vote for McDonald and Jezza if they were standing in the booth to trust them with the cash drawer..Not saying Tories are great but just running around throwing money at issues does not fix them.

Though apparently, when needs must, throwing money at universal credit and the NHS does work as Tory policy?

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Post by super_realist on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:55 am

McLaren wrote:Super

I have never heard him say Brexit is only a concern for the young but he does point out that it will disproportionately effect them, the maths is pretty simple.  He has chosen to start a campaign group which focuses on promoting the views of young people who would prefer #Brexit is not actually gone ahead with, so it is no surprise that is what he talks about when given a platform.

If you put aside his angle on Brexit, which is that of a young concerned person, do you still think he is ignorant about the structures and laws of the EU?

AFFECT Mac, not effect. He refuses to see that it affects EVERYONE, and that one day he'll be old. A 50 year old could live another 50 years. He's being a plank taking the stance he does and taking such a narrow view of it.

48% don't want Brexit, it's stupid to further split that vote down into constituent parts as it simply weakens his argument.


You've probably not heard him come up against a decent interviewer because you only listen to the sort of programme you agree with, like Channel 4 news.


He might consider himself young, but he's 27, not that young, just like you aren't that young. He's the age when he should have long since graduated, long since had an MSc and be a few years into a career. He's not going to reverse Brexit, so his stupid vanity project is simply making him look bitter.

The trouble with his view is that he believes Britain is going to be some sort of dystopian nightmare for generations after Brexit and that it is only a concern for the young, there's no evidence of that, I'm sure there will be a period of uncertainty and transition, but this will affect us all, not just the just about still youthful like Femi. It didn't take generations for us to transition into the EU, there's no reason to think it will when we unfortunately leave.

Go out and get a proper job Femi, and stop wasting your time.

I didn't want Brexit either, but I also accept democracy, so unfortunately we just have to wait and see what happens. You, I or Femi cannot change the Brexit negotiations, so just let's see what sort of deal we get before trying to usurp democracy.


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Post by super_realist on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 8:03 am

beninho wrote:I am surprised how people still believe in the tories, but I am also not surprised as we have a lot of people with right wing views in this country, which is why the newspapers pander to them.  

The hatred of corbyn is media driven and people have fallen for it, people talk of Venezuela, with no real basis, but its because they've read it somewhere.

The country is a mess, and it's all down to the tory party, 8 years in power and what to show of it.

But I'd take Cameron back over May! I hate how politics has becone about pandering to the left and right minorities. Wheres the centre ground gone?

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Yeah keep going Mac.

Corbyn hatred is not just media driven, it's Corbyn driven. The guy is completely unlikeable. It's not the media who are laying wreaths for terrorists but pretending he can't remember, it's not the media meeting the IRA, but not meeting opposition, it's not the media motorcycling to one of the worst police states in history with the innumerate and ill prepared Abbott, it's not the media not apologising for anti Semitism in his party, it's not the media who failed to beat the worst Tory government in post war history, it's not the media failing to expel people like Ken Livingston, it's not the media pretending there are no seats on trains when there are plenty. The guys an arse, and it doesn't take a media vendetta to see it.

It's not the media painting Corbyn to be a plank, it's Corbyn as well.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 8:47 am

JAS wrote:I see the fashion police were out in force again yesterday as some guy had the audacity to wear an anorak to the cenotaph and it was generally portrayed as hugely disrespectful and a betrayal of the fallen!!
I’m making the assumption that this'll be the same morons that insist on golfers wearing knee high white socks if wearing shorts.
Stop slagging off Corbyn! Wink
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 8:51 am

Diggers wrote:It didn’t have to happen, then like a Kwini said, he ran away, leaving the mess to be handled by one of the most incompetent Home Secretaries we have ever had. Listen to a police officer or a fire man talk about May abd her negotiation skills and you won’t be surprised by where we are at today.
I’m not saying that Labour would do better (though some of their policies are to me a no brainier), but to link wisdom as a word with this shower of infighting, self interested, incompetent  (equally ideological driven as any leftie) cockwombles is beyond madness.
Hmm, yes, because junior fire fighters and police are privy to the actual negotiations and aren't biased....
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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 8:54 am

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:I am surprised how people still believe in the tories, but I am also not surprised as we have a lot of people with right wing views in this country, which is why the newspapers pander to them.  

The hatred of corbyn is media driven and people have fallen for it, people talk of Venezuela, with no real basis, but its because they've read it somewhere.

The country is a mess, and it's all down to the tory party, 8 years in power and what to show of it.

But I'd take Cameron back over May! I hate how politics has becone about pandering to the left and right minorities. Wheres the centre ground gone?

Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Laugh  Yeah keep going Mac.

Corbyn hatred is not just media driven, it's Corbyn driven. The guy is completely unlikeable. It's not the media who are laying wreaths for terrorists but pretending he can't remember, it's not the media meeting the IRA, but not meeting opposition, it's not the media motorcycling to one of the worst police states in history with the innumerate and ill prepared Abbott,   it's not the media not apologising for anti Semitism in his party, it's not the media who failed to beat the worst Tory government in post war history, it's not the media failing to expel people like Ken Livingston, it's not the media pretending there are no seats on trains when there are plenty. The guys an arse, and it doesn't take a media vendetta to see it.

It's not the media painting Corbyn to be a plank, it's Corbyn as well.

Just a point. You do realise the fact that you don't like him doesn't make him unlikable. Look at how many 10s of thousands of people he draws at rallies if you want evidence of that. Or is that my fault for taking your completely literal comment literally?


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Post by beninho on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 9:01 am

Its not the media as he reels off everything tge media has used to tar corbyn.

Sheepy Realist.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 9:03 am

Corbyn or May.

May or Corbyn.

Well, I'm out. Pair of absolute, total and utter bell ends. I honestly think that a more competent and respectable leader could be found in a city centre Wetherspoon's at 1 am on a Sunday morning during a recording of Booze Britain, Blues and Twos, Police Interceptors etc etc.

Ironic that in this era of political correctness there's practically nothing correct about the politics.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 9:06 am

It’s not much of a choice. All I know for certain is that while Labour night screw up, the Tories are currently in the process of screwing up.

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Post by beninho on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 9:13 am

May is awful, she wanted the power so much she took on a shtshow which she could never control. I'd take greening as tory leader, but the party wont.

Corbyn may be awful, but I cannot see how worse it could be.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:29 am

Diggers wrote:It’s not much of a choice. All I know for certain is that while Labour night screw up, the Tories are currently in the process of screwing up.

And think about what each party will screw up trying to achieve?

The Torries have messed up cutting back the welfare state and government to the bare bones while trying to leave the most progressive union in the world, while Labour could screw up trying to properly fund the NHS, taxing the rich, better worker rights and possibly getting rid of nukes.

One party at least has good intentions even if you don't agree with how they are trying to achieve them.


But remember there are other parties on the ballot paper.
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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:31 am

Super I will ask this again about Femi.

Mac wrote:If you put aside his angle on Brexit, which is that of a young concerned person, do you still think he is ignorant about the structures and laws of the EU?
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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:32 am

Diggers wrote:It didn’t have to happen, then like Kwini said, he ran away, leaving the mess to be handled by one of the most incompetent Home Secretaries we have ever had.

Are you talking about the pig incident or brexit?
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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:50 am

McLaren wrote:
Diggers wrote:It didn’t have to happen, then like Kwini said, he ran away, leaving the mess to be handled by one of the most incompetent Home Secretaries we have ever had.

Are you talking about the pig incident or brexit?

Fair point. I also think that when Danny Dyer was talking about him and mentioned Cameron: "sitting there with his trotters up" it could indeed refer to Cameron returning to an old, favorite pastime.

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Post by dynamark on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 11:01 am

Digs I get it you are a socialist- I believe now in teaching so going down the underfunded line which is natural.
Universall credit is a much better system when its in full flow.HNS like defence can spend as much cash as we can throw at it. Last year I had the hip replacement and was treated very well but with a 20 week wait .Private would have been 2 weeks I had the choice but having put £100 k plus into NHI and NI I waited. I have worked in social housing for years and have tenants of my own .Numerous cases of folk using the benefits system to extremes knowing the rules and no one challenges them because they are sick or ethnic or religious.No intention of ever going to work or making a contribution whilst they can live of the system of benefits that is laid out like a banquet in front of them.Life isn't easy but if you put in some effort theres a lot to enjoy.
People living on the street we put them in a flat and they cannot cope with it .Single  mums in an HA flat who always,always have a non live in boyfriend .Too many folk happy to take but not contribution

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Post by beninho on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 11:24 am

I work in Homelessness and Housing for a LA. I see people pushing things or trying to cover up, but I have never seen someone not challenged due to ethnicity, religion or sickness.

Personally I think people "playing" the tax system, is more of a problem then people "playing" the benefit system in this country.

But Housing in London is a broken system, unaffordable for most, and caps on HB/UC housing element just puts people into rent arrears. I am not in one way sold by UC, considering in some instances it will mean that the less well off will become even less well off.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 11:26 am

dynamark wrote:I believe now in teaching so going down the underfunded line which is natural.

This obviously doesn't read like you intended. Are you saying you didn't used to believe in teaching and that you think it is "natural" (whatever that means in this context) to underfund teaching?

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Post by raycastleunited on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 11:58 am

beninho wrote:May is awful, she wanted the power so much she took on a shtshow which she could never control. I'd take greening as tory leader, but the party wont.

Corbyn may be awful, but I cannot see how worse it could be.

It could be a lot worse. Tories doing a poor job right now, but current Labour team would be an absolute disaster and very damaging for the country.

An election now could be like the Brexit vote all over again. People voting for change because they are not satisfied with the current situation, without really contemplating that the change on offer is for the worse.

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Post by beninho on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 12:18 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
beninho wrote:May is awful, she wanted the power so much she took on a shtshow which she could never control. I'd take greening as tory leader, but the party wont.

Corbyn may be awful, but I cannot see how worse it could be.

It could be a lot worse. Tories doing a poor job right now, but current Labour team would be an absolute disaster and very damaging for the country.

An election now could be like the Brexit vote all over again. People voting for change because they are not satisfied with the current situation, without really contemplating that the change on offer is for the worse.

It could be worse true.

I am so, out of tune with Politics. I am probably left of centre, but working for a LA and in Housing I can see various benefits in have to make changes to the welfare state. But no major party really talks to me. I think the swing voters are being left aside, Left Labour is appealing to the younger (under 30) generation, the older generation seems to be predominately blue.

I'm late 30's, ,married with 2 kids and a decent family wage, living in a London Borough. I'm against brexit, yet the labour party leader does not seem to be, the tory leader would appear to be against it, but is scared of losing power.

The tories will make an agreement with the EU, and it will be voted down in parliament, this will probably lead to an election and then we are into god knows territory.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 12:31 pm

dynamark wrote:Digs I get it you are a socialist- I believe now in teaching so going down the underfunded line which is natural.
Universall credit is a much better system when its in full flow.HNS like defence can spend as much cash as we can throw at it. Last year I had the hip replacement and was treated very well but with a 20 week wait .Private would have been 2 weeks I had the choice but having put £100 k plus into NHI and NI I waited. I have worked in social housing for years and have tenants of my own .Numerous cases of folk using the benefits system to extremes knowing the rules and no one challenges them because they are sick or ethnic or religious.No intention of ever going to work or making a contribution whilst they can live of the system of benefits that is laid out like a banquet in front of them.Life isn't easy but if you put in some effort theres a lot to enjoy.
People living on the street we put them in a flat and they cannot cope with it .Single  mums in an HA flat who always,always have a non live in boyfriend .Too many folk happy to take but not contribution

I'm really not a socialist. But I do believe the society we live in is far too unjust. Re the NHS, my mum and sister and brother in law have all recently had fantastic service, but it's a service that's massively under pressure.
I don't disagree with the principle of universal credit, it's simplified and could work, what I'm saying is it was underfunded and the roll out has been a complete horlicks.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 1:08 pm

Roller_Coaster wrote:Corbyn or May.

May or Corbyn.

Well, I'm out. Pair of absolute, total and utter bell ends. I honestly think that a more competent and respectable leader could be found in a city centre Wetherspoon's at 1 am on a Sunday morning during a recording of Booze Britain, Blues and Twos, Police Interceptors etc etc.

Ironic that in this era of political correctness there's practically nothing correct about the politics.
OK I'm with you. Not voting for either of these utter showers.
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Post by Davie on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 1:31 pm

unless you live in their constituency you're not voting for them anyway!

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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 1:42 pm

Davie wrote:unless you live in their constituency you're not voting for them anyway!

True, and you would hope the personalities of the leaders would be quite far down the list of reasons to vote for a candidate of a particular party.

As I tried to point out somewhere above you have to ask what do the core principles of the parties mean they are aiming to achieve?

Whose interests do a party want to promote?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:17 pm

Davie wrote:unless you live in their constituency you're not voting for them anyway!
Fair point, but you know what I mean - I'm not voting for either of their parties, pretty much regardless of their local representation in my area OK.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:25 pm

McLaren wrote:
Davie wrote:unless you live in their constituency you're not voting for them anyway!

True, and you would hope the personalities of the leaders would be quite far down the list of reasons to vote for a candidate of a particular party.

As I tried to point out somewhere above you have to ask what do the core principles of the parties mean they are aiming to achieve?

Whose interests do a party want to promote?
Corbyn's party are in cloud cuckoo land. For example, this is a leadership that thinks Brexit is compatible with what you were suggesting they're aiming for (i.e. they don't come out and support the ideas of second referendum and remaining in the EU, however daft, etc). It isn't, but they can't even work that out. Corbyn's horrendous, as interestingly suggested by Tom Peck:

Tom Peck, The Independent wrote:The Labour Party, led by a man who is anathema to its values and, on Brexit, its members, continues to agitate for a general election rather than a second referendum. Corbyn and McDonnell know that the fastest and most likely route to power is the most disastrous Brexit possible and the bringing down of the government. It is the kind of power grab via Pyrrhic victory that only Boris Johnson was once considered shameless enough to want, but they are every inch his equal.

****ing useless, the lot of them.
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Post by McLaren on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:28 pm

Navy remember that depending on where you live the labour candidate on your ballot paper might actually be a co-operative candidate running on a labour ticket.  So you could vote for them even if you are not a fan of the national politics of the labour party.
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