ICC Cricket World Cup

First topic message reminder :

Table
England 2pts (+2.08nrr)
Afghanistan
Australia
Bangladesh
India
New Zealand
Pakistan
Sri Lanka
West Indies
South Africa 0pts (-2.08 nrr)


Pool Fixtures

Thu, May 30 
10:30 England vs South Africa  (The Oval)

Fri, May 31 
10:30 West Indies vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Sat, Jun 1 
10:30 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs Australia (Bristol)

Sun, Jun 2 
10:30 South Africa vs Bangladesh (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 3 
10:30 England vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Tue, Jun 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)

Wed, Jun 5 
10:30 South Africa vs India (Southampton)
13:30 Bangladesh vs New Zealand (The Oval)

Thu, Jun 6 
10:30 Australia vs West Indies (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 7 
10:30 Pakistan vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Sat, Jun 8 
10:30 England vs Bangladesh (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs New Zealand (Taunton)

Sun, Jun 9 
10:30 Australia vs India (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 10 
10:30 South Africa vs West Indies (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 11 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Wed, Jun 12 
10:30 Australia vs Pakistan (Taunton)

Thu, Jun 13 
10:30 India vs New Zealand (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 14 
10:30 England vs West Indies (Southampton)

Sat, Jun 15 
10:30 Australia vs Sri Lanka (The Oval)
13:30 Afghanistan vs South Africa (Cardiff)

Sun, Jun 16 
10:30 India vs Pakistan (Old Trafford)

Mon, Jun 17 
10:30 Bangladesh vs West Indies (Taunton)

Tue, Jun 18 
10:30 England vs Afghanistan (Old Trafford)

Wed, Jun 19 
10:30 New Zealand vs South Africa (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 20 
10:30 Australia vs Bangladesh (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 21 
10:30 England vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)

Sat, Jun 22 
10:30 Afghanistan vs India (Southampton)
13:30 New Zealand vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Sun, Jun 23 
10:30 Pakistan vs South Africa (Lord’s)

Mon, Jun 24 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Bangladesh (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 25 
10:30 England vs Australia (Lord’s)

Wed, Jun 26 
10:30 New Zealand vs Pakistan (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 27 
10:30 India vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Fri, Jun 28 
10:30 South Africa vs Sri Lanka (Edgbaston)

Sat, Jun 29 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Pakistan (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs New Zealand (Lord’s)

Sun, Jun 30 
10:30 England vs India (Edgbaston)

Mon, Jul 1 
10:30 Sri Lanka vs West Indies (Riverside Ground)

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow

This forum needs sarcasm tags Olly

I also heard they put out the squad announcement using emojis to make up the players names. Someone has too much time on their hands

In regard to Wahab Riaz being dug out of the recycling bin for Pakistan it seems to be as much the failure of others that's got him a spot as anything else. Pakistan's seam attack came up consitently short in the warm ups, and the dramatic loss of form from Amir is well known.
He has apparently been an top player in the Plaistan domestic competition this season ( for all that's worth) and has some international pedigree.
If we are arguing that Dawson deserves his spot off the back of domestic performances, and those given a chance ahead of him struggling, then it shouldnt be a great shock that a team with a real problem in its bowling should pick a guy who wasn't even in the extended squad.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/1130904853398597634?s=21

My word these are absolutely beautiful

I thought you had linked to these:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/9070175/england-cricket-gender-swap-instagram/

LondonTiger wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/1130904853398597634?s=21

My word these are absolutely beautiful

I thought you had linked to these:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/9070175/england-cricket-gender-swap-instagram/

"Never thought the English cricket team would actually look good if they were girls"

Im sure the England womens team was happy to read that one.

I was going to say that the women's team do not want people discussing their looks - then remembered they had complained that teh cut of their kit (at the last world cup iirc) was unflattering.

As far as how the guys look as girls. Stokes and Woakes scared me.

Would be nice to do some kind of a tipping comp for this World Cup... anyone got any ideas?

I'm thinking 2 possibilities:

Option 1:
Pick the winners for each match. Fixed points for correct pick + add margin of victory in either actual runs or wickets, i.e you don't need to specify the margins... all we need to decide how much a wicket is worth? Around 20 or 25 points perhaps?  

or,

Option 2:
Pick 2 players (one batsman/wk and one bowler) from each team/squad (or maybe only 5 teams?) and accrue points for runs, wickets, catches, run outs, etc. Similar to my Ashes competition format... perhaps with bonus points for centuries, 150s, 200s, 5-fers, etc.

Let me know which tipping comp model you prefer - we'll have to make a final decision either Option 1 or Option 2 a few days before it all kicks off of course - the 'winning' option may not please everyone... but we can live with that and get on with the show, right?

I'm trying to keep it simple, yet still competitive and exciting.
Bear in mind things like number of matches for Option 1 (we could submit our picks in weekly blocks if you like) and the number of more obscure players from less familiar teams for Option 2. Probably more work for yours truly in Option 2 but I've got some spreadsheets ready to roll if we go that way. Note that there might be an issue if they rest a player from a match... if we include 'reserve' players... it may get too complicated.

If you have any other good ideas  - please feel free to let me know as well. In the meantime we can do a quick vote for either Option 1 or Option 2.

Both sound good to me, so whatever is easiest for you to administer Joey!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Both sound good to me, so whatever is easiest for you to administer Joey!

So I'll put you down for Option 1 then Olly. Tending towards that option myself... easier to manage from here given the time zones.

Option 1 for me as it makes every game interesting.

Various ways to manage the predictions, depends on how much work you want to do.

As to the margins how about by percentage of runs/overs (ignoring wickets as this is limited overs) so batting first, scoring 300 and winning by 30 is a 10% win. Batting second and chasing the runs down in 45 overs is also a 10% win. D/L wins already use number of runs anyway.

Most of these competitions tend to be player selections...quite happy to do it differently for this . So fine with option one.
Think the weekly block of picks might be good : but would that be a bit messy for you to run?

I can see you like chasing, Tiger.

I was thinking for example:

West Indies v Pakistan

Pakistan score 320/7
Windies all out 299

Fixed points for correctly picking Pakistan win = 25 points
Margin of win = 21 points
Total = 46 points

Pakistan score 320/7
Windies score 324/6
Fixed points for correctly picking WI win = 25 points
Margin of win = 4 wickets @ say 10 points/wicket = 40 points
Total = 65 points

The worry would be blow out wins such as NZ post 488/5, Bangladesh all out 223.

Fixed points for correctly picking NZ win = 25 points
Margin of win = 265 points
Total = 290 points

Or Bangladesh all out 171, NZ 173/1
Fixed points for correctly picking NZ win = 25 points
Margin of win = 9 wickets @ say 10 points/wicket = 90 points
Total = 115 points

Both results are a complete thrashing but you seem to get more points value for the first one.
I guess it's the same for everyone though (if you picked NZ), right? Maybe wickets could be 20 or 25 points per wicket.

Or Bangladesh all out 171, NZ 173/1
Fixed points for correctly picking NZ win = 25 points
Margin of win = 9 wickets @ say 25 points/wicket = 225 points
Total = 250 points

This seems better weighted compared to the first example @ 10 points/wicket.

Just a question of the correct weighting for a wicket?

alfie wrote:Most of these competitions tend to be player selections...quite happy to do it differently for this . So fine with option one.
Think the weekly block of picks might be good : but would that be a bit messy for you to run?

Should be OK. Do from Thursday to Thursday - between 7-10 matches in each weekly block at a quick glance.
Just need to chase up selections each week. Similar to the other tipping comps but I'll need to be ruthless with deadlines. If you are late - then at least a 1 match penalty... 3 strikes and you're out!

Ah, I thought you were asking us to predict the margin.

Kind of like:

Tie
Narrow win
Win
Easy win
Thrashing

With points for getting the result and points for getting the margin. I will check how Superbru are doing it.

What to predict

For each match you must choose the winning team and one of four winning margins: Narrow, Comfortable, Easy or Thrashing.


[th][/th][th]Winner batted first[/th][th]Winner batted second[/th]

Narrow	0-15 runs or super over	1-2 wickets or 0-6 balls remaining* or super over
Comfortable	16-49 runs	3-5 wickets or 7-18 balls remaining*
Easy	50-99 runs	6-8 wickets or 19-30 balls remaining*
Thrashing	100+ runs	9+ wickets or 31+ balls remaining*

* The lowest fitting tier of wickets and balls remaining will apply. For example, a win by 9 wickets with 1 ball remaining or a win by 1 wicket with 20 balls remaining are both Narrow.

Formatting does not quite come out correctly but the idea comes through.

Yeah, all you'd have to do is submit your winners for the 48 matches, LT. Think there are enough matches to provide a spread of results. An upset or two early on would break up the field.

Could do a hybrid: Pick the winner and pick top run scorer and top wicket taker... so we aren't all on the same points after 4 or 5 games.

eg. England, Buttler, Woakes ... get a fixed bonus for the latter two... say 25 points for each correct pick for top run scorer and wicket taker.
If your player isn't selected (say for the first match) - too bad (should have waited a bit longer for confirmation); but if your selected player gets injured there'll be a chance to replace him with another in the next match.

Haven't been on Superbru for a while... think they do use percentages with sophisticated algorithms.

The table above was how Superbru are doing it, so you pick who will win and by which of four margins.

You could use NRR for your predictions? There are two ways this could work.

Everyone predicts a result and a margin. You get 1 point for getting the result correct and 0 points for getting a result incorrect and then you subtract a "margin error".

So -

Player 1 predicts Team A to win by NRR 1.0
Player 2 predicts Team A to win by NRR 0.5
Player 3 predicts Team B to win by NRR 0.3

Scenario 1
Team A score 300-6 off their 50 overs (runrate 6.0)
Team B score 260-8 off their 50 overs (run rate 5.2)
NRR 0.8

Player 1 predicted correctly and has a margin error of -0.2 = 0.8
Player 2 predicted correctly and has a margin error of -0.3 = 0.7
Player 3 predicted incorrectly and has a margin error of -1.1 = -1.1

Scenario 2
Team A score 300-6 from 50 overs (run rate 6.0)
Team B score 302-3 in 47 overs (run rate 6.4)
NRR (0.4)

Player 1 predicted incorrectly and has a margin error of -1.4 = -1.4
Player 2 predicted incorrectly and has a margin error of -0.9 = -0.9
Player 3 predicted correctly and has a margin error of -0.1 = 0.9

There is an element of double jeopardy here, e.g. if you get the result wrong your margin is also going to be further out.

One way of balancing this slightly would be to calculate the margin error, but split the scoring systems. So you would rank people on most correct predictions and use accumulated margin error as a first tiebreaker.

In terms of administering this, I think once a spreadsheet was set up it would just be the physical admin task if inputting the guesses and then entering the actual result and allowing formula to do the leg work.

That looks good, Tiger.

So all we would need to do is select winning team and either Narrow, Comfortable, Easy or Thrashing?

eg. South Africa v India:
India - C (for Comfortable)

If the actual result is a Narrow or Easy win for India and you picked India - Comfortable... you just get less points (than if you'd picked Comfortable) or none at all?

Quite like that one too, Robbo. A real test of tipping and spreadsheet skills that!

Like the way that it simply relies on Pick a winner and run rate and actual run rate margin at the end of the match.

Might need to sleep on it (nearly midnight here) and see what everyone thinks.

Pal Joey wrote:That looks good, Tiger.

So all we would need to do is select winning team and either Narrow, Comfortable, Easy or Thrashing?

eg. South Africa v India:
India - C (for Comfortable)

If the actual result is a Narrow or Easy win for India and you picked India - Comfortable... you just get less points (than if you'd picked Comfortable) or none at all?

The former so 1 point for correctly getting the winner and a second for getting the margin (zero for choosing the loser, even if their margin was the one you selected).

Robbo's works too, and has me twiddling my ~Excel fingers in anticipation

LondonTiger wrote:I was going to say that the women's team do not want people discussing their looks - then remembered they had complained that teh cut of their kit (at the last world cup iirc) was unflattering.

As far as how the guys look as girls. Stokes and Woakes scared me.

Well thats one for equality, the chaps uniforms are god awful

Australia absolutely demolished the west indies in their warm up.
13 lb and 10 wides in 38 overs bowled by the west indies (12 of those were spin) just seems to be living up to the stereotype of a side that often collectively fails to turn up for games. And funnily enough Gayle was rested/ing. This was an opportunity for the wider squad to push for places, but instead showed they lack any depth and application.

Despite all the hype Warners averaging 13 in his 4 games for Australia since his return. Its hard to imagine him not starting for Australia but his form has to become a worry for them at some point, and if there are any residual ill feelings in the dressing room they wont be helped if he gets a first XI spot at the expense of someone who has been performing. Marsh and Kwajah kajwa Usman are probably left scrapping over one spot to make way for Smith Warner and various part time bowlers despite moth consistently scoring runs for Aus in this format.

When a new thread is made that has a trimmed down explanation of what that competition is, I’m in.

Should do something with players too. Top 3 bats, top 3 people who throw the ball

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:When a new thread is made that has a trimmed down explanation of what that competition is, I’m in.

Should do something with players too. Top 3 bats, top 3 people who throw the ball

Why limit it to just Asian "mystery" spinners

Usman Khawaja took a frightful blow to the head yesterday from the bowling off Andre Russell. Fortunately he stuffed no damage as according to the cricket Australia press release. 

With regards to Warner’s form, he’s scored 500 odd runs in the IPL in his favoured position aka opener. 

Why on earth is he batting at 3 for Australia? Khawaja scored a few runs against India and Pakistan but Warner is a proven match winner in ODIs as an opener

I like Tiger's proposal - seems to have all the benefits of simplicity.

In addition we can also have Ziggler's suggestion of best performing individuals.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Usman Khawaja took a frightful blow to the head yesterday from the bowling off Andre Russell. Fortunately he stuffed no damage as according to the cricket Australia press release. 

With regards to Warner’s form, he’s scored 500 odd runs in the IPL in his favoured position aka opener. 

Why on earth is he batting at 3 for Australia? Khawaja scored a few runs against India and Pakistan but Warner is a proven match winner in ODIs as an opener

He played the last two games as an opener and scored two runs in total, but I assume the plan is to still have him there when he plays in the world cup...which as I said above I expect he will do regardless of these set backs. Most likely in this game they wanted to try out other options as openers in case of an injury or if his form doesn't improve later in the group stages. There isnt that much difference between opening and batting one down really is there, and its pretty clear they want him to get time in the middle and runs under his belt in this format against proper bowling attacks. I know youre utterly in love with him but you cant really hold the decision to put him at 3 responsible for him not carrying his IPL form to the 50 over game.

Gooseberry wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Usman Khawaja took a frightful blow to the head yesterday from the bowling off Andre Russell. Fortunately he stuffed no damage as according to the cricket Australia press release. 

With regards to Warner’s form, he’s scored 500 odd runs in the IPL in his favoured position aka opener. 

Why on earth is he batting at 3 for Australia? Khawaja scored a few runs against India and Pakistan but Warner is a proven match winner in ODIs as an opener

He played the last two games as an opener and scored two runs in total, but I assume the plan is to still have him there when he plays in the world cup...which as I said above I expect he will do regardless of these set backs.  Most likely in this game they wanted to try out other options as openers in case of an injury or if his form doesn't improve later in the group stages. There isnt that much difference between opening and batting one down really is there, and its pretty clear they want him to get time in the middle and runs under his belt in this format against proper bowling attacks. I know youre utterly in love with him but you cant really hold the decision to put him at 3 responsible for him not carrying his IPL form to the 50 over game.

‘In love with Warner’   Can’t stand the man for his idiotic behaviour but I would rather see Australia at ‘full strength’ so they can’t complain when they are knocked off their perch...

.... by Bangladesh.

Have I got this right? these are official ICC World Cup warmups, but unofficial ODIs?

Yeah they are allowed to use any bowlers from the squad as Inunderstand so it's not an ODI, just a 50 over practise match not used for rankings. Some teams have played more, and some have shoehorned in proper odis before them too ( like England)
Each team was given 2 games as warm ups as part of the tournament structure to avoid any unfairness and scrambling for fixtures. They are also covered as part of the media deals.

Afghanistan bowl out Pakistan. Something we only achieved when making them chase.

I quite like this Afghanistan team, but I think they'll struggle at the World Cup due to conditions and a lack of experience. Though they are making light work of Pakistan, currently.

Sri Lanka are far and away the worst team at this World Cup; they're presently being shredded by the Saffers.

Afghans could do with whatever caused Shahzad to retire hurt not being too serious - him and Zazai at the top of the order has the potential to be an incredibly destructive duo

Owen Morgan with a 'small fracture' to his left index finger after being struck on it in practice. Currently saying that it will not affect his selection for the first match of the WC, but could mean he gets rested a couple of times in the early group stages to allow a bit more healing time.

Guess it makes more space for Vince and Denlyawson to get some time in the middle in the two warm ups.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Afghans could do with whatever caused Shahzad to retire hurt not being too serious - him and Zazai at the top of the order has the potential to be an incredibly destructive duo

Afghanistan could be one of the fan favourites for the tournament I think. Some dangerous batsman coupled with 3 spinners. Rashid Khan and Mohammed Nabi in particular can cause any batsman in the world problems.

It's nice to see Hamid Hassan back in their squad after injury issues as well.

Looks like we'll get another upset in the warm ups, with India's highly rated batting order being dismantled by the Kiwis - 81/6.

Steven Smith back like he’s never been away, scoring his first century since his suspension. Smith’s scored 89*, 91*, 76 and now an unbeaten 100.

Decent batting practice for the Aussies...most of their top bats got some time in the middle , Smith the standout , Warner a bit less fluent than usual : score looks a bit underwhelming at first glance , especially considering England lost a key bowler early in the innings ; but it is a practice match essentially.

Fancy England to run this down against what does not look to be a top strength Australian attack ; but it doesn't really matter all that much. I do hope the minor injuries England seem to be collecting aren't going to imperil their progress . Timing not the best !

I'm hoping Australia's win will calm home expectations which seem a bit too high for me.

Yeah Smith's absolutely dominant whilst Warners looking a bit out of sorts, like Stokes was after his return from his "break".
It's odd with Warner because he's exactlybrhebsort of player who usually thrives on being the panto villain and the extra edge to competition.

Strange game all round really, it's almost as if both teams agreed to practise batting cautiously. Lots of non injury injuries too.

Perhaps a good reminder for England and the fans and media that being favourites isnt enough on it's own, you can still come unstuck in this format. And further confirmation that Aus are in a much better place than they were this time last year.

guildfordbat wrote:I'm hoping Australia's win will calm home expectations which seem a bit too high for me.

I’m not sure we should be taking anything from a game where England’s fielding coach, was you know, actually fieldingz

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:I'm hoping Australia's win will calm home expectations which seem a bit too high for me.

I’m not sure we should be taking anything from a game where England’s fielding coach, was you know, actually fieldingz

I suspect we would be taking something from it if we had won by 8 wickets with 10 overs to spare.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:I'm hoping Australia's win will calm home expectations which seem a bit too high for me.

I’m not sure we should be taking anything from a game where England’s fielding coach, was you know, actually fieldingz

It is amusing that Colly at 42 years old and coaching still has the enthusiasm of a puppy when thrown into the field. The bloke truly was one of the best fielders of all time.

guildfordbat wrote:I'm hoping Australia's win will calm home expectations which seem a bit too high for me.

I'm not sure what can be learned from this experience. England were minus Rashid (with the ball, at least) and without their two most senior batsmen.

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:I'm hoping Australia's win will calm home expectations which seem a bit too high for me.

I’m not sure we should be taking anything from a game where England’s fielding coach, was you know, actually fieldingz

I suspect we would be taking something from it if we had won by 8 wickets with 10 overs to spare.

Not really - I don’t see why expectations should be lowered, this is a fantastic team with a great opportunity ahead of them, if we can’t be expectant and excited now we never will be!

(Also I shall be sinking a relatively large amount into Sri Lanka to finish bottom of the group at a rather generous 3/1 - they look a horrible side to me)

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:(Also I shall be sinking a relatively large amount into Sri Lanka to finish bottom of the group at a rather generous 3/1 - they look a horrible side to me)

Oooh, that's a good'un! Sri Lanka's bowling attack wouldn't trouble a minor counties side, and their batsmen are usually hopeless in English conditions.

What odds a Pakistan v Sri Lanka final I wonder?   Duty?

NZ look good to me. Always the dark horse at recent world cups... or black horse in their case. This could be their time.