Azzrentice - Team 2 - Bam, Nando, Twist, Renege

https://www.606v2.com/t68785-the-azzrentice-2019#3810614

Task 1 - Flower of Scotland

Task Allocation

1. Coaching, tactics and playing style /5 - Nando/Renege- Nando usually manages a decent tactical setup, but will obviously need input from Renege based on the players chosen

2. Playing personnel /5 - Renege/Nando- think you'd have the best knowledge of the current and future crop of players. Nando to input based on initial thoughts from 1

3. Resolving the stadium issue /5 - Twist

4. improving the quality of available personnel /5 - Bam

Other ideas /10 - Everyone

Timelines

Need a final submission at 12pm on 5 June, so working backwards

End of day Friday - initial thoughts outlined with what we're planning for each mini task, and we can all feedback within the team
12pm Tuesday - Send me the final draft of each mini task so I can consolidate and prep for submission
12pm Wednesday - Submission

As a starter question would it be frowned upon to look south of the border for a blueprint? Get rid of the old guard, bring in youth and a feel good factor in the squad which eliminates club divides (harder in scottish football i would expect). It may then push them higher than the talent on paper suggests.

Looking at the under 21 squad, they haven't really performed though.

Also not sure about the stadium issue....will need to research

For team name how about "Making The Flower Bloom" or "Highlanders" or "The Brave"

I nominate Bam as captain

Oh and keeping it simple...and following Lord Azzys instructions, we should aim for an answer on:

Coaching, tactics and playing style /5
Playing personnel /5
Resolving the stadium issue /5
improving the quality of available personnel /5
Other ideas /10

With quite a few other ideas based upon it being out of 10....might help us win if other stuff is crap

Think the team name should be more aimed at the overall competition than this specific task, will have a think and come back with some options.

I think Renege would be a better captain for this task as a Scot and Rangers fan, but happy to take it on if he doesn't want to do it

Don't think any approach should be ruled out, regardless of it being from south of the border! Can think of a country which has very strong divides between the two main teams that has thrived regardless

Do we want to discuss here, via PM or on FB messages mainly?

Last time I did this we used to trust the other team not to look at the others page...is that out now then Happy with team name being generic...though i thought we all swapped teams after tasks. I am not an Apprentice watcher I must admit.

Yeah Renege is a great shout then.

I would suggest simple planning and approach and suggestions here.....then actual firmer stuff via PM. Firmer as in task related not porn

I thought the task was flower of Scotland not Mission Impossible

I’m happy to be happy captain but also happy for Bam to be captain on this one, being my Azzrentiice virginity is being stripped on this one

Being Scottish hasn’t worked well for Scotland recently either

Cool, I'll be captain, and will allocate out tasks as per Azzy's scoring as follows:

1. Coaching, tactics and playing style /5 - Nando/Renege - Nando usually manages a decent tactical setup, but will obviously need input from Renege based on the players chosen

2. Playing personnel /5 - Renege/Nando - think you'd have the best knowledge of the current and future crop of players. Nando to input based on initial thoughts from 1

3. Resolving the stadium issue /5 - Twist

4. improving the quality of available personnel /5 - Bam

Other ideas /10 - Everyone

Happy to swap with you Twist if you think you'd be better to do 4. I'd like everyone to come up with 1/2 ideas that fit into the other ideas bucket.

I've split the tasks as so because I think 3/4 are quite independent of the other two, so need Renege and Nando to work closely together on those

Team Name

My thoughts are that we should have a team name that fits the entire competition, has a somewhat footballing theme and tries to sell what the team is about

Only option I came up with was..

Sterling - football, £, "sterling effort"

Would appreciate a couple of more suggestions, "The Brave" as suggested by Twist isn't a bad one thinking about it again

Initial questions I want to ask Azzy
1. Do we have guidance of the financial resources available to the SFA
2. "Improving the quality of available personnel" - to be clear, this is playing personnel

Add any more that you think of and we'll post them up this afternoon

Timelines

Need a final submission at 12pm on 5 June, so working backwards

End of day Friday - initial thoughts outlined with what we're planning for each mini task, and we can all feedback within the team
12pm Tuesday - Send me the final draft of each mini task so I can consolidate and prep for submission
12pm Wednesday - Submission

I am up for that task. Will do research.

Your first question also impacts on me. Seems the situation is Hampden Park (but council stalling and they want to turf Queens Park out), changing Murrayfield or (in the realms of Azzrentice fantasy) is there money to upgrade another stadium or build a new one.

I have an idea straight off the bat

Stadium issue is it’s too far from fans with the running track round it, so folk aren’t happy.

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/255767-scottish-ex-pats-full-list-of-eligible-scottish-footballers-playing-abroad/

Steve Clarke has only just been hired so can't really sack him and he plays a 4-4-2/4-5-1 hybrid with 2 banks of 4 defending narrowly with a forward dropping in.

Stadium wise might be worth doing what England do and float around the country at places like Celtic/Rangers/Aberdeen etc

Agree that Clarke can't really be sacked yet - more about the support network and player identification around him

Let's have an outline view of the proposal by the end of tomorrow, then gives some time over the next few days to get it written up.

Also need some ideas for the "anything else" bucket of scoring

Also, any other questions? Team names?

Is "Sterling" acceptable if we can't think of anything else? Will post those two questions first thing if nothing else added

Sterling is sound by me

agree with floating around idea, saves cash as well. Can keep fans up north happy when smaller teams come to town.

Agree tactics with 4411, Atletico style I was thinking. Never going to boss teams possession style. Striker and centre back is the issue. Stick ons have to be Robertson, McGinn, Fraser, Forrest.
Possibly Snodgrass/Mcgregor. McTominay would suit the style well too, even if he’s not best technically. And we have a team of midgets so height is good. Tierney if he could fit in. Leeds cb. Anyone with a Scottish gran that’s not been picked before. Jack Harper a wild card.

Thinking more if I was to pick a team to fit the 4411 mantra it would look something like

Marshall
Patterson/Tierney Cooper Souttar Robertson
Fraser McTominay McGinn Armstrong 
————- Forrest
————- Naismith

Be good to get others thoughts on players that should be there. My thoughts were Armstrong Robertson combo worked well for Dundee United. Armstrong coming inside so would fit the narrow tactics Nando was saying, Robertson on the overlap. Fraser on the other side giving a more natural wide man. Forrest giving pace and a runner in behind Naismith, who is getting on but puts in a great shift, has a bit of quality, good movement and was in the goals for Hearts before injury. Snodgrass is the one that should maybe be in the team but not sure what the thoughts are on guys who have ruled themselves out previously? Gk, rb, cbs, I don’t think there’s many stand outs. Attacking wise there’s quite a few at similar levels. And not sure if it would be better with a more natural central player behind striker who might be stronger defensively 

Other ideas could be likes of Colt teams. And one I’ve always thought is getting Old Firm youth teams playing in the English youth leagues or a more competitive European youth setup. Non starter for the main teams to go to England, but for the youth for big two think it would help bridge gap. Other Scottish teams there’s not the same difficulty to break through or pressure when they do

In terms of people who have ruled themselves out recently, I think it should be a fresh start for anyone who hasn't ruled themselves out since Steve Clarke came in, so definitely open to all of those being potential picks.

I'm a big Tierney fan - is there an argument that he could be used on the left wing, particularly against the stronger sides? I see you've got him as a right back option, is that realistic?

Angus Gunn is on that list of players Nando posted, he looks like a definite keeper option to me

Part of my thinking on part 4 is how to approach Scot qualified players earlier - the Scottish rugby team has had a lot of success identifying players early on and getting them in the Scotland set up from a young age, even if they have been qualified for England/Wales, think there is potential to do the same here

Just throwing in Greg Taylor for LB. Personally I would have Tierney as CB.

If we had gone 5-3-2 we could have a LB and LCB option like England used Trippier and Walker, but agree with 4-4-1-1 approach

Just FYI im at work the next 2 days so no real access to this

Ok, well try and get as much written up as possible, seems like the playing personnel and tactics side has a fair bit of input so just the coaching that needs thinking about?

I'd be considering who we'd want to bring in as consultants or permanent coaches to try and freshen up the approach and add new ideas to the team, and what we think they could bring

List of options

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/premier-league-scots-you-might-12219323

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/30-scotland-players-take-country-12269344

Callum Paterson could be a decent option, impressed in the Prem this year, McBurnie is apparently well rated too

I don’t like the idea of Tierney at lm myself. He’s better running from deep, and with Robertson better there, think if he’s going to play should be rb, cb in a back 3 or even dm. He’s played rb quite a few times for Scotland, probably his most played position. And we had a good run with him there

Other players coming on to a game are likes of Christie, Fleck, Bates, Porteous, McKenna, McBurnie a good shout. McBurnie maybe a possibly starter? Brophy I’d also throw in as a possible. For squad I like the idea getting a squad of mid twenties trying to revamp things, with a few of the older ones sprinkled in. Younger ones training with but playing u21s still

In terms of youngsters coming through there’s a good talented bunch at u21s. Gilmour at Chelsea the big one. With Bams idea Dembele at Celtic is one Scotland should be doing everything to get in, as he’s played for England recently, and qualifies for a few. Then likes of McCrorie, Middleton, Ferguson, Turnbull, Hastie, Henderson, Cochrane. There’s a lot of talent. Getting these guys to actually step up a level is always where Scotland fail. Getting money to the youth teams is a big thing too as read we could have gone to the Toulon tournament but SFA couldn’t afford it.

On the coaching side I think tactics is the main thing and getting group of players together that can build a team, then move up from the tough groups together. Coaching at national level isn’t going to be what defines these guys games as they only come together a few times a year, so not like the day to day coaching.

What about getting some sort of defined formations for all age groups and a way of playing that they could learn at youth level and so easily step up each levels and to the full side with knowledge of how we play?

A left field coaching idea would be getting Andy Murray to consult on working out the fitness regimes for the youth teams coming through. Bring through the next Charlie Adam without he ten lagers and packet of crisps

Murray already works with some of the Hibs lads btw why I thought

Sounds good, you're definitely the best person to know more about the current set up and players so happy to go with what you propose!

Quite like the Andy Murray idea too if its feasible

On the players I’ll know more about the guys in Scotland or that have played for Scotland but don’t have the good championship knowledge where a lot of players are! 

Guys like Fleck I know from way back but know idea how good he is now other than the fact he way jet for Sheffield? and likes of McBurnie, Cooper I’ve never really seen. So be good to get an idea on if folk think they should be starting

McBurnie I think is a genuinely good player at Championship level, I'm inclined to say he's the best starting option if we're really looking towards the future. Cooper I know less about, but a quick google suggests he's decent too

Nando/Twist may be able to help here

I've sent you all my thoughts on part 4

Azzy wrote:

BamBam wrote:Team 2 questions

1. Do we have guidance of the financial resources available to the SFA
2. "Improving the quality of available personnel" - to be clear, this is playing personnel?

1. I can provide nothing other than what is freely available online via a quick Google search.
2. Playing personnel, yes. You're looking to develop the future of Scottish football as well as fix the current generation.

Answers to questions - Twist this probably most affects the stadium side of things

How are we looking in terms of each section? Think the "other ideas" part probably needs the most work

Other Ideas

Look at their TV rights
Maybe use the cup as a similar thing to the checkatrade trophy where U21's can play in it.
Look at homegrown rules for matchday squads.
Look at the leagues (Combine SPL/Div1 and Div2/3 to have 2 20 team leagues then make a 3rd league from non league sides.

Ive crossed out anyone that's not 28 or under. So for World Cups the oldest would be at best 31. 

The following players were called up for the matches against Cyprus and Belgium in June 2019.[119]

As of 11:02, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
No. Pos. Player Date of birth (age) Caps Goals Club
GK Scott Bain 22 November 1991 (age 27) 3 0 Scotland Celtic
GK Liam Kelly 23 January 1996 (age 23) 0 0 Scotland Livingston
GK David Marshall 5 March 1985 (age 34) 27 0 England Hull City
GK Jon McLaughlin 9 September 1987 (age 31) 1 0 England Sunderland
DF Michael Devlin 3 October 1993 (age 25) 0 0 Scotland Aberdeen
DF Stuart Findlay 14 September 1995 (age 23) 0 0 Scotland Kilmarnock
DF Scott McKenna 12 November 1996 (age 22) 10 0 Scotland Aberdeen
DF Charlie Mulgrew 6 March 1986 (age 33) 39 3 England Blackburn Rovers
DF Stephen O'Donnell 11 May 1992 (age 27) 7 0 Scotland Kilmarnock
DF Liam Palmer 19 September 1991 (age 27) 1 0 England Sheffield Wednesday
DF Andrew Robertson (captain) 11 March 1994 (age 25) 29 2 England Liverpool
DF John Souttar 25 September 1996 (age 22) 3 0 Scotland Heart of Midlothian
DF Greg Taylor 5 November 1997 (age 21) 0 0 Scotland Kilmarnock
MF Stuart Armstrong 30 March 1992 (age 27) 13 1 England Southampton
MF Tom Cairney 20 January 1991 (age 28) 2 0 England Fulham
MF John McGinn 18 October 1994 (age 24) 14 0 England Aston Villa
MF Callum McGregor 14 June 1993 (age 25) 11 0 Scotland Celtic
MF Kenny McLean 8 January 1992 (age 27) 6 1 England Norwich City
MF Scott McTominay 8 December 1996 (age 22) 7 0 England Manchester United
MF Graeme Shinnie 4 August 1991 (age 27) 6 0 Scotland Aberdeen
FW Eamonn Brophy 10 March 1996 (age 23) 0 0 Scotland Kilmarnock
FW Oliver Burke 7 April 1997 (age 22) 6 0 Scotland Celtic
FW James Forrest 7 July 1991 (age 27) 28 5 Scotland Celtic
FW Ryan Fraser 24 February 1994 (age 25) 7 1 England Bournemouth
FW Marc McNulty 14 September 1992 (age 26) 2 0 Scotland Hibernian
FW Lewis Morgan 30 September 1996 (age 22) 2 0 England Sunderland
FW Johnny Russell 8 April 1990 (age 29)

Recent call-ups
The following players have also been selected by Scotland in the past 12 months.
Pos. Player Date of birth (age) Caps Goals Club Latest call-up
GK Jordan Archer 12 April 1993 (age 26) 1 0 England Millwall 21 March 2019, v.  Kazakhstan
GK Allan McGregor RET 31 January 1982 (age 37) 42 0 Scotland Rangers 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
GK Jamie MacDonald 17 April 1986 (age 33) 0 0 Scotland Kilmarnock 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
GK Craig Gordon 31 December 1982 (age 36) 54 0 Scotland Celtic 17 November 2018, v.  Albania
DF Kieran Tierney 5 June 1997 (age 21) 12 0 Scotland Celtic 24 March 2019, v.  San Marino
DF David Bates 5 October 1996 (age 22) 4 0 Germany Hamburger SV 24 March 2019, v.  San Marino
DF Jack Hendry 7 May 1995 (age 24) 3 0 Scotland Celtic 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
MF Callum Paterson 13 October 1994 (age 24) 12 0 Wales Cardiff City[note 2] 24 March 2019, v.  San Marino
MF John Fleck 24 August 1991 (age 27) 0 0 England Sheffield United 24 March 2019, v.  San Marino
MF Barry Bannan 1 December 1989 (age 29) 27 0 England Sheffield Wednesday 21 March 2019, v.  Kazakhstan
MF Ryan Christie 22 February 1995 (age 24) 5 0 Scotland Celtic 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
MF Gary Mackay-Steven 31 August 1990 (age 28) 2 0 Scotland Aberdeen 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
MF Kevin McDonald 4 November 1988 (age 30) 5 0 England Fulham 17 November 2018, v.  Albania
MF Ryan Jack 27 February 1992 (age 27) 2 0 Scotland Rangers 17 November 2018, v.  Albania
MF Robert Snodgrass 7 September 1987 (age 31) 26 7 England West Ham United 14 October 2018, v.  Portugal
FW Oliver McBurnie 4 June 1996 (age 22) 7 0 Wales Swansea City[note 2] 24 March 2019, v.  San Marino
FW Steven Fletcher 26 March 1987 (age 32) 33 10 England Sheffield Wednesday 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
FW Matt Phillips 13 March 1991 (age 28) 14 1 England West Bromwich Albion 20 November 2018, v.  Israel
FW Steven Naismith 14 September 1986 (age 32) 49 9 Scotland Heart of Midlothian 14 October 2018, v.  Portugal
FW Leigh Griffiths 20 August 1990 (age 28) 19 4 Scotland Celtic 11 October 2018, v.  Israel

Fernando wrote:Other Ideas

Look at their TV rights
Maybe use the cup as a similar thing to the checkatrade trophy where U21's can play in it.
Look at homegrown rules for matchday squads.
Look at the leagues (Combine SPL/Div1 and Div2/3 to have 2 20 team leagues then make a 3rd league from non league sides.

Good suggestions - do you mind writing a bit out on each idea? Doesn't need to be long

This is what is needed between now and tomorrow afternoon

Nando / Renege - Coaching, Tactics, Playing style and Playing personnel - lumping these two together again, need one of you to send me a "final" squad submission that we would propose would be the starting squad, and then a list of those who just missed out but would definitely be in contention going forwards. A quick write up just explaining why we have picked those players, why we are following this tactical and squad set up approach, and where we think the biggest challenges to focus on for the future are

Twist - Stadium proposal - Full write up of what we're proposing, and why. Include a view of the financial situation too, needs to be realistic in line with what we think the resources are

Bam - Improving available personnel - I sent you all my initial thoughts on Friday, will take on board the comments from Nando / Renege and send round a final version tomorrow.

Everyone - Other ideas - Nando has come up with a few above, even a couple of sentences on each would be great. Twist / Renege, please try and do the same, as will I

If there are any issues with being able to do this, please say so!

Ive covered Tactics/Playing Style Renege and added bits for the ideas i put up in a PM to Bam. 

So need to look at Coaching/Playing personnel(Who we can persuade to join Scotland)

On playing personnel, I’ll write something up - slightly disagree on who we can persuade part as we’ve always done this, needs to be more about development of eligible players imo rather than increasing eligible players.

Did the final playing squad get included in your PM Nando - Planning on including in my part

Also on the increasing league size - it won’t be voted in. Been considered before.

The idea for 12 is there simply aren’t enough good teams. And more small teams means less money, in both attendances and tv money (less Old Firms, less Hearts Hibs derbies and less Aberdeen versus above). So idea of increasing league won’t help the top league. And no one would go for it. Agree with the increasing of second tier, and even third tier, with whatever’s left. Then the non-league idea works. I’m keen for introducing Old Firm Colt teams, plays on youth developmentwhich I’ll cover if that could be included

On the HG rules, don’t think that’s an issue. Generally loads at each team already. Someone mentioned earlier about having a certain number of young players in squads think that is a good one.

Renege wrote:Did the final playing squad get included in your PM Nando - Planning on including in my part

No i didn't do it just the tactics & playing style bit

Fair call on the league expansion it was just a suggestion. Kind of surprise didnt go for it now they've got the new contract sealed you'd have thought it would only improve the quality over time.

Yea the league expansion is a good point, been talked about loads up here. But the clubs rule the roost, and given how small we are as a country, diluting quality might improve quality over time but the initial loss of money is too much of a gamble for the clubs to be in favour of. The agreed deal would probably be void if it was all changed I’d guess

I’ve sent my ramblings to Bam

You will have mine before 1pm Bam. Can't do it for 12 deadline I am afraid

Thanks guys

Will look to have a final write up done by the end of the day, and will send through to you for any last min comments and changes ahead of the submission tomorrow lunchtime

If I've got any questions I'll PM or message here

Renege wrote:Also on the increasing league size - it won’t be voted in. Been considered before.

The idea for 12 is there simply aren’t enough good teams. And more small teams means less money, in both attendances and tv money (less Old Firms, less Hearts Hibs derbies and less Aberdeen versus above). So idea of increasing league won’t help the top league. And no one would go for it. Agree with the increasing of second tier, and even third tier, with whatever’s left. Then the non-league idea works. I’m keen for introducing Old Firm Colt teams, plays on youth development which I’ll cover if that could be included

On the HG rules, don’t think that’s an issue. Generally loads at each team already. Someone mentioned earlier about having a certain number of young players in squads think that is a good one.

Youth Development would be under coaching i reckon so possibly look into it.

Also maybe implement the 5 u21's in a matchday squad to help youth talent too

Sent

Have sent you all the consolidated submission. Have a read and let me know what needs changing, will have a little time to do so before 12 tomorrow

Beautiful

I’ve sent on a small bit on Xi based on Nando’s tactical master class. Feel free to exclude or change!

Sent you a lil change Bam

Have consolidated all comments and replied to all together, let me know what you think but will be unlikely to be able to make any further changes past 11ish

Task submitted

brill, godd luck