Ireland WC

by carpet baboon Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bit early i know.
Will update squads etc once they are announced.
And add the fixtures when I get a spare 10 mins.

Will Addison has been called up to the training squad

by SecretFly Thu 22 Aug 2019, 2:44 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Also word on the street is that Dave Kearney has been outrageously good in training.

I don't doubt it. Although, of course, DOD will drop in for his usual stuff on Daverage if he sees your post.

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 2:54 pm

I suspect he wont somehow

by SecretFly Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:04 pm

You have info on DOD?

Banned?

Health....

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:07 pm

He has only made about 600 posts in 5 years or so. Not here very often. That's a mere fraction of your 30k offering.

by SecretFly Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:10 pm

Yeah, well.... I realise that. Thus was my point. He makes exceptions when he scans through posts and sees the name Zebo, POM or Dave Kearney.... Whistle

I'm sure he's a frequent enough offline scanner.

by SecretFly Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:13 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:He has only made about 600 posts in 5 years or so. Not here very often. That's a mere fraction of your 30k offering.

Ouch. Lion and hyena meet in the 'jacks'.

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:15 pm

That went way over my head?

by SecretFly Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:26 pm

Don't worry about it. You can count, that's all that matters in the growl department of a public jacks.

Anyway, back to Dave. He's still a centre playing wing. One of these days some coach will realise that and place him there ...but they better hurry, he'll be retiring in a year or two. Wasted career.

by **rodders** Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:33 pm

Two strong sides but England much closer to full strength.

From our perspective it looks like they are still looking at those back 5 places.

I'm not sure Henderson is safe yet although it does look like they are seriously considering dropping a back row for Beirne.

It will be Interesting to see who covers center, presumably Larmour?

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm

Yeah I was thinking that Beirne might take a back row spot and based on how the back row performed in the 6N that wouldn't really surprise me.

I think Kieran Marmion covers 9-15 and 1-8.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 22 Aug 2019, 4:07 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:IRELAND: Rob Kearney; Jordan Larmour, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, Jacob Stockdale; Ross Byrne, Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rory Best, Tadhg Furlong; Iain Henderson, Jean Kleyn; Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Andrew Porter, Devin Toner, Tadhg Beirne, Luke McGrath, Jack Carty, Andrew Conway.

Team for Italy

Andrew Conway Jordan Larmour Dave Kearney == Feels like that was the reserves, and this is the more likely combo
Garry Ringrose Chris Farrell ==can't figure rationale for combo mixture
Joey Carbery Luke McGrath == Feels like that was the reserves, and this is the more likely combo

Jack McGrath Rob Herring Andrew Porter == feels like that was the reserves, and this is the starting front row combo
Devin Toner Jean Kleyn == accelerated game time for Kleyn to integrate(?) Tadhg being the flex bench cover is interesting.
Rhys Ruddock Tommy O’Donnell Jordi Murphy == feels like that was the reserves, and this is the starting front row combo

by **profitius** Thu 22 Aug 2019, 4:23 pm

I listened to Tommy Bowe being interview this morning. He seemed to suggest they're working on a new gameplan and said he met Schmidt last November and Schmidt told him that whatever happens in the 6N happens but their focus for this year is on the world cup.

He also mentioned Henshaw has been training a lot at 15.

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 4:24 pm

profitius wrote:I listened to Tommy Bowe being interview this morning. He seemed to suggest they're working on a new gameplan and said he met Schmidt last November and Schmidt told him that whatever happens in the 6N happens but their focus for this year is on the world cup.

He also mentioned Henshaw has been training a lot at 15.

Seems legit to me Cool

Where was the interview?

by **rodders** Thu 22 Aug 2019, 4:29 pm

Henshaw was completely exposed against England so if that is what they are working on they are in trouble.

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 4:30 pm

rodders wrote:Henshaw was completely exposed against England so if that is what they are working on they are in trouble.

Ah that was just one game as a last minute sub. Earls was also injured early on in the game and Henshaw had to cover more ground as a result.

by Pie Thu 22 Aug 2019, 5:23 pm

So having seen England's clear first team pick - hilarious that they say these are warm ups when they are clearly smarting after loss in Cardiff and determined to win - I think , sorry to say, Eng by 15-20, however I hope that your boys find 6th gear and sneak it. Will be a tough test for sure.

by **profitius** Thu 22 Aug 2019, 5:41 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
profitius wrote:I listened to Tommy Bowe being interview this morning. He seemed to suggest they're working on a new gameplan and said he met Schmidt last November and Schmidt told him that whatever happens in the 6N happens but their focus for this year is on the world cup.

He also mentioned Henshaw has been training a lot at 15.

Seems legit to me

Where was the interview?

https://youtu.be/SELeZu4l9As

by Collapse2005 Thu 22 Aug 2019, 6:21 pm

Pie wrote:So having seen England's clear first team pick - hilarious that they say these are warm ups when they are clearly smarting after loss in Cardiff and determined to win - I think , sorry to say, Eng by 15-20, however I hope that your boys find 6th gear and sneak it. Will be a tough test for sure.

Watevs, Im going for a draw

by Pie Thu 22 Aug 2019, 6:43 pm

Although now reading that Eddie 'Capt Haddock' Jones is comparing England's approach to rugby with fish and chips. Cod, he has lost the plot and I expect Ireland will batter them.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 9:37 am

So from the comments from the Irish camp it's pretty clear we aren't looking at the result here. We trained very heavy during the week and Schmidt has said they are focused on the Scotland game.

That might be a bit of kid-ololgy but I don't think so, I expect our side will be going out with a heavy level of fatigue and Schmidt will be seeing how they deal with the pressure.

England will win but the question is by how much, they will be tired after two physical games themselves but this could be quite one sided.

Is there any coverage outside sky sports?

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 9:47 am

rodders wrote:So from the comments from the Irish camp it's pretty clear we aren't looking at the result here. We trained very heavy during the week and Schmidt has said they are focused on the Scotland game.

That might be a bit of kid-ololgy but I don't think so, I expect our side will be going out with a heavy level of fatigue and Schmidt will be seeing how they deal with the pressure.

England will win but the question is by how much, they will be tired after two physical games themselves but this could be quite one sided.

Is there any coverage outside sky sports?

I believe it, the result is completely meaningless to me too. A good win for England would tee them up for a fall more than it would harm us in my view.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 9:50 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:So from the comments from the Irish camp it's pretty clear we aren't looking at the result here. We trained very heavy during the week and Schmidt has said they are focused on the Scotland game.

That might be a bit of kid-ololgy but I don't think so, I expect our side will be going out with a heavy level of fatigue and Schmidt will be seeing how they deal with the pressure.

England will win but the question is by how much, they will be tired after two physical games themselves but this could be quite one sided.

Is there any coverage outside sky sports?

I believe it, the result is completely meaningless to me too. A good win for England would tee them up for a fall more than it would harm us in my view.

Thoughts on Byrne? I think he could play himself onto the plane with a good performance.

Kleyn is the other one, I think he's one big shift away from getting in.

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:04 am

Yeah I think Byrne is a class act. Probably better than Carbery too. Its no coincidence that Byrne was the one that ended up staying in Leinster in my view. However, Id say Schmidt wants Carbery to travel and will give him every chance. Byrne is a better starter and Carbery is a better sub.

I think Kleyn will make the squad and Im ok with that and I think Beirne will travel as a backrow which Im not against either.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:17 am

I think you are right on both accounts, unless Kleyn has a shambles it looks like he'll go along with Beirne.

I think if Leavy or O'Brien were fit it would be a different story but given we are stretched a bit with the backrow I'd be happy to see Beirne cover as he is a quality player.

If we do go with the extra lock I presume that will enhance Jordi Murphy's chances.

It sound too if Henshaw is training at 15 they will go with 4 centers and one less outside back, either Dave K or Conway as cover across the back 3.

It's interesting Addison has still been retained though, I wonder if they are keeping him in camp in case of an injury?

When is the squad announced?

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:41 am

Conway must be in pole position at this point. Not sure when it is announced, after the Wales game?

by **RDW** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:49 am

Pie wrote:Although now reading that Eddie 'Capt Haddock' Jones is comparing England's approach to rugby with fish and chips. Cod, he has lost the plot and I expect Ireland will batter them.

Pie - you can't complain about non-Welsh posters saying things you don't like on Welsh threads then come on an Irish thread and do the same thing

by TightHEAD Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:52 am

RDW wrote:
Pie wrote:Although now reading that Eddie 'Capt Haddock' Jones is comparing England's approach to rugby with fish and chips. Cod, he has lost the plot and I expect Ireland will batter them.

Pie - you can't complain about non-Welsh posters saying things you don't like on Welsh threads then come on an Irish thread and do the same thing

Thank you Sir.

BTW Pie I see myself as a British Rugby fan and seeing as I live in Wales feel I have a right to talk about Welsh rugby.

The Mods do a wonderful job, but this is a forum that encourages debate is it not?

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:54 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Conway must be in pole position at this point. Not sure when it is announced, after the Wales game?

Not so sure you know.

DK covers left and right wing and Joe rates him. If Carbury is fit then he covers 15 along with Henshaw (alledgedly Smile

) and Larmour.

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:54 am

TightHEAD wrote:
RDW wrote:
Pie wrote:Although now reading that Eddie 'Capt Haddock' Jones is comparing England's approach to rugby with fish and chips. Cod, he has lost the plot and I expect Ireland will batter them.

Pie - you can't complain about non-Welsh posters saying things you don't like on Welsh threads then come on an Irish thread and do the same thing

Thank you Sir.

BTW Pie I see myself as a British Rugby fan and seeing as I live in Wales feel I have a right to talk about Welsh rugby.

Why are you posting on the Ireland thread then? Lost?

Just kidding you are most welcome.

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 10:56 am

rodders wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Conway must be in pole position at this point. Not sure when it is announced, after the Wales game?

Not so sure you know.

DK covers left and right wing and Joe rates him. If Carbury is fit then he covers 15 along with Henshaw (alledgedly ) and Larmour.

Yeah true. I have always liked Kearney, think he is quite under rated but I think Conway is a bit better now and Kearney had his worst game for Ireland in the last world cup quarter v Argentina.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 11:07 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Conway must be in pole position at this point. Not sure when it is announced, after the Wales game?

Not so sure you know.

DK covers left and right wing and Joe rates him. If Carbury is fit then he covers 15 along with Henshaw (alledgedly ) and Larmour.

Yeah true. I have always liked Kearney, think he is quite under rated but I think Conway is a bit better now and Kearney had his worst game for Ireland in the last world cup quarter v Argentina.

Here's a question though, who has started at 11 in the past 2 seasons other than Stockdale and Zebo?

Joe is very particular about having a left sided player in the back 3, if Stockdale gets injured who would start? I think the fact that Conway was at 14 against Italy suggests he's back up for Earls / Larmour, if that is the case he may miss the cut if both are fit.

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 11:08 am

You might be on to something there. I don't know off the top of my head, who?

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 11:18 am

Dave K is one, I genuinely can't think on another...

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 11:34 am

Earls started a couple six nations games in 2016 on the left wing and the 2016 Nov internationals. Kearney also started a couple on the left in the 6n (2016) and v Fiji in 2017 November internationals.

Zebo started all 2017 games on the left wing. Stockdale all 6n games in 18 and 19.

Not sure about summer tours.

So yeah you are right only really DK has started on the left if Earls is considered a right wing.

by **rodders** Fri 23 Aug 2019, 4:00 pm

Yeah so it could be Joe would go with Conway on the right and switch Earls across. Presumably in 2016 Trimble or Bowe was on the right wing?

I wouldn't rule DK out though...

by Collapse2005 Fri 23 Aug 2019, 4:10 pm

rodders wrote:Yeah so it could be Joe would go with Conway on the right and switch Earls across. Presumably in 2016 Trimble or Bowe was on the right wing?

I wouldn't rule DK out though...

Yes Trimble

by SecretFly Fri 23 Aug 2019, 5:41 pm

rodders wrote:So from the comments from the Irish camp it's pretty clear we aren't looking at the result here. We trained very heavy during the week and Schmidt has said they are focused on the Scotland game.

England will win but the question is by how much, they will be tired after two physical games themselves but this could be quite one sided.

It's risky to keep sending this Irish side out to play under limitations of whatever nature the ongoing training provides. There was a direct hint from Schmidt that they weren't giving everything to 6N. Whether he was being honest or trying to bluff through disappointment is irrelevant. He suggested in public that WC was the focus not 6N. Now it's being suggested still, by the comments you've read and by the performance against Italy, that the WC is still the focus. It might indeed seem an obvious and valid point, (that the WC is primary) but we're not the only side going to the WC. The players have to start truly believing they can win against top sides again BEFORE the WC. Beating Scotland in the WC is beating currently the 8th ranked side in the world

In the warm ups, we meet the 1st and 4th ranked side. The opportunity to reassert a confidence that we are still in the upper tier levels of quality is in the here and now over the next few weekends. There is only so long that you can tell players to hold off or not be too worried about below standard performance. The time is now to attempt to regain the confidence to win against the very best. And if we can, then Scotland and the rest of the WC will take care of itself. If we have enough to beat England, Wales or both, then we have the ability to meet Scotland. The rest will be with the Gods as to the result.

by theslosty Fri 23 Aug 2019, 8:26 pm

Maybe Ireland were holding something back during the 6N - personally I don't buy it - but there's no chance that Leinster were limiting themselves in the Euro final vs Sarries. To me it felt like a quasi Ireland-England fixture and even though Leinster far from disgraced themselves Saracens just had too much power. That was maybe a more worrying sign than the 6N where we played poorly but you could possibly write off as a blip.

by Collapse2005 Sat 24 Aug 2019, 10:34 am

theslosty wrote:Maybe Ireland were holding something back during the 6N - personally I don't buy it - but there's no chance that Leinster were limiting themselves in the Euro final vs Sarries. To me it felt like a quasi Ireland-England fixture and even though Leinster far from disgraced themselves Saracens just had too much power. That was maybe a more worrying sign than the 6N where we played poorly but you could possibly write off as a blip.

I get the logic but I dont really buy your argument (Andy Dunnes too) either because win or lose getting to the final is a great achievement and winning it two years in a row is rare. Wales are also dire in Europe but won a slam, likewise the Jaguares got to the final in super rugby but were terrible in the RC

Sarries won the game in England, who knows maybe on another day in Ireland Leinster would have won. Losing it doesnt guarentee you lose to England just as winning it doesnt guarentee a win v England.

Sarries beat Glasgow 3 times but England couldnt beat Scotland at home.

by SecretFly Sat 24 Aug 2019, 11:08 am

theslosty wrote:Maybe Ireland were holding something back during the 6N - personally I don't buy it - but there's no chance that Leinster were limiting themselves in the Euro final vs Sarries. To me it felt like a quasi Ireland-England fixture and even though Leinster far from disgraced themselves Saracens just had too much power. That was maybe a more worrying sign than the 6N where we played poorly but you could possibly write off as a blip.

That's Ireland Big Coaching Problem that needs solving, because it's true. Ireland have to find a method to negate the impact of top level Power + Dynamicism as exhibited by a side like England but not just them.

Because it isn't just Power that England use, it's power with motion and rapid movement of the ball to ensure that in a brief sequence of big collisions Irish players get sufficiently stretched (with some of them still struggling to get back on their feet) to get through. It's not just Power, it's power with a tempo that sees Irish players struggle to hold defensive shape (rugby at it's purest really). Ireland can't handle that heat lately - allegedly! - based on evidence of big games.
So Joe knows why his side is being beaten. He needs to show that he has learned his lessons, has done his studying and has a playbook to at least challenge England's obvious advantages in the 'massive and mobile units' department.

Winning today? Well maybe not fully necessary. But let nobody tell me Joe is learning anything of worth if we get marmalised/blitzed again. We know England will have that intention of bamboozling us with muscle and pace. It's coming. So what have we learned from the 6N and how have we adapted to cope? Time will tell. Exciting game actually. I think despite any camp chat pre-game, Ireland know the time for ramping up their threat level has arrived.

by Poorfour Sat 24 Aug 2019, 11:42 am

What I want to learn today is whether Schmidt has restored his side’s confidence.

Ireland looked shellshocked for most of the 6 Nations after the opening onslaught from England. A game plan that had been purring along very nicely was suddenly exposed, and the players looked like they didn’t know what to do.

Schmidt is smart enough to adapt - but having spent several years instilling and perfecting one way of playing, it’s a big ask to turn it around in a handful of games before the RWC.

by Guest Sat 24 Aug 2019, 2:31 pm

Schmidt might be smart but recent results indicate he’s checked out. He peaked between RWCs and took Ireland to some dizzying heights and he should be proud at the way he dragged Ireland up. But his job is done. Check out time. Plane ‘home’ to NZ.

by No9 Sat 24 Aug 2019, 3:48 pm

Can’t help thinking, that Ireland are on a backward slip. 6 Nations was the start of it, and I think they’re in for a woeful RWC. Going to get to knockout stages, probably as group winners and face Wales. But can’t to see them progressing further.

Peaked too soon, about 18 months too soon.

by Guest Sat 24 Aug 2019, 3:58 pm

Ireland lack depth. Generally it’s not a big deal until dominos start falling. Ireland have paper thin depth.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 24 Aug 2019, 4:01 pm

No9 wrote:Can’t help thinking, that Ireland are on a backward slip. 6 Nations was the start of it, and I think they’re in for a woeful RWC. Going to get to knockout stages, probably as group winners and face Wales. But can’t to see them progressing further.

Peaked too soon, about 18 months too soon.

If Ireland get through to the knockout stages, they won't face Wales. They'll go up against the qualifiers from the pool with the Boks and NZ.

by maestegmafia Sat 24 Aug 2019, 4:01 pm

ebop wrote:Ireland lack depth. Generally it’s not a big deal until dominos start falling. Ireland have paper thin depth.

I don’t agree with that at all. Ireland have superb depth.

by No9 Sat 24 Aug 2019, 4:07 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
No9 wrote:Can’t help thinking, that Ireland are on a backward slip. 6 Nations was the start of it, and I think they’re in for a woeful RWC. Going to get to knockout stages, probably as group winners and face Wales. But can’t to see them progressing further.

Peaked too soon, about 18 months too soon.
If Ireland get through to the knockout stages, they won't face Wales. They'll go up against the qualifiers from the pool with the Boks and NZ.

Yep, sorry, mis read the table...oops. I did check it twice, as I thought that was the case.

Guess facing All Blacks or SpringBoks doesn’t improve the chances of getting to the Semis then censored

by Guest Sat 24 Aug 2019, 4:09 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
ebop wrote:Ireland lack depth. Generally it’s not a big deal until dominos start falling. Ireland have paper thin depth.

I don’t agree with that at all. Ireland have superb depth.

Don’t agree with that. Even their top boys are clueless robots. Hate to imagine what the fearless underlings are like. They’ve had some of their celebrated pack fall over and now the cupboard is a bit bare. Depth is thin. Even their back up first five is crook, who else is there? Paper thin.

by No9 Sat 24 Aug 2019, 4:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
ebop wrote:Ireland lack depth. Generally it’s not a big deal until dominos start falling. Ireland have paper thin depth.

I don’t agree with that at all. Ireland have superb depth.

England schooling Ireland. I reckon they’re a spent force, this is a continuation from the Grand Slam game in Cardiff. Ireland have peaked too soon and the RWC is going to be a tough one for them and going to get a lot tougher if they lose the remaining of their warm ups which is a real possibility.

by Pete330v2 Sat 24 Aug 2019, 4:17 pm

More of the same turgid tomkite from Ireland and I've now turned off. Static ball, clueless defence and some of the undroppables looking easy to cut loose. Boke

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