England's Winter

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC



T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

Just watching the highlights now and it does look a pretty decent pitch unfortunately! Looks to be a bit of extra bounce in it if you bend your back, but England don’t really have the attack for that. Broad is the only tall bowler really and he doesn’t make the most of his height at all. Archer and his high release point could have been really dangerous with a bit of extra juice in the pitch.

Great credit to Maharaj sending down 27 overs on day 1 on that track. Keeping the scoring rate in check (just 2.5 per over), enabling the seam quartet to rotate as necessary and keep going throughout the 3 sessions. Plus the wicket of Denly.

Not a headline performance but so valuable for the hosts and a contribution probably beyond one that England are capable of currently.

I might be in the minority here but early in the day I thought 280 or so would be okay, South Africa aren't a solid batting team and they also have to bat last. Would still like more but 262/9 isnt disastrous. Even if we concede a first innings lead, chasing anything over 200 will be hard for SA.

Hi Marky - yeah, we have 260+ on the board and that probably isn't disastrous. 

However, one side would have snatched your hand off for the actual end of day one score when Root won the toss and rightly batted - and that wouldn't be England!

As you suggest, we're not out of things at this stage. In line with your post, questions remain over South Africa's batting line up and they have the disadvantage of batting last. However, imo we are behind in the game and have a lot to do if we are to turn things around.

In order to start winning Tests again, we need days that are considerably better than non disastrous.

Marky wrote:I might be in the minority here but early in the day I thought 280 or so would be okay, South Africa aren't a solid batting team and they also have to bat last. Would still like more but 262/9 isnt disastrous. Even if we concede a first innings lead, chasing anything over 200 will be hard for SA.

If it were flipped Id agree, I have zero faith in England being able to press home what in theory is a decent position that SA have found themselves in. But I also have zero faith in England being able to salvage what on paper isnt a total disaster. Because its England, and they arent very good and keep losing games they couldve won.
When you chuck in several players who really shouldnt be playing test cricket, and others fatigued or at least under prepared by the illness and then add on the malaise and losing mentality they seem to have fallen into as a squad it doesn't bode well.

Its no so much the scoreboard that makes us pessimistic about Englands chances as it is the last year of Englands test cricket teaching us they can lose from much stronger positions than this, and this is a weakened side.

Sure its not quite the position the savaged New Zealand find themselves in, but they still arent likely to win. The frustration is worse because as you sat this is far from a vintage SA side and should have been an excellent opportunity to get England back to winning series ...instead they are just trying to avoid heavy defeats.

At some point you have to be honest and accept this is a pretty poor England test side.

269 all out. England need nine or ten wickets today; South Africa would love to bat four or more sessions to assert their authority on the game. Should be a good battle - South Africa have a decent top six but not a lot else (and yes I do await Philander’s century!).

I appreciate it seems a bit desperate but I felt Anderson's dismissal should have been reviewed given Rabada's propensity to overstep. 

Comfortable start by South Africa as they reach 20 without loss.

guildfordbat wrote:I appreciate it seems a bit desperate but I felt Anderson's dismissal should have been reviewed given Rabada's propensity to overstep. 

Comfortable start by South Africa as they reach 20 without loss.

Every wicket is checked for a no ball by the third umpire.

Two down now, I don't think 269 is a terrible score when you consider nobody can bat any more.

Less comfortable now for South Africa as debutant opener Malan and young number 3 Hamza fall to slip catches off Broad. Hamza's dismissal was a blinder by Stokes diving low to his right at second slip. 

38/2. Now for England to make it count and back up Marky's relative optimism from last night ....

Soul Requiem wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:I appreciate it seems a bit desperate but I felt Anderson's dismissal should have been reviewed given Rabada's propensity to overstep. 

Comfortable start by South Africa as they reach 20 without loss.

Every wicket is checked for a no ball by the third umpire.

Two down now, I don't think 269 is a terrible score when you consider nobody can bat any more.

Soul - I had wondered that but wasn't sure it was the case. Sometimes the onfield umpire appears to ask for a check which would seem unnecessary if the third umpire is always going to do it anyway.

Btw, I take and like your ''nobody can bat any more'' comment. I'll still be happier though when Elgar is back in the hutch. Not in good form of late but he's a gritty and gutsy scrapper.

''40 for 3. Interesting.'' - Michael Holding, as Stokes pouches du Plessis off Anderson.

Great use of the new ball with a good line and length doing the business.

SA in bother, but too often England have let sides off from these promising positions. Bess nearly gets one first ball...

Great start for England ...but I am not sure why Bess has been brought on now ?
Three caught in slips from seamers ...is it not a time for Stokes ?

Guess it is about the ends ; but can't help thinking this is a mistake in terms of pressure...

alfie wrote:Great start for England ...but I am not sure why Bess has been brought on now ?
Three caught in slips from seamers ...is it not a time for Stokes ?

Guess it is about the ends ; but can't help thinking this is a mistake in terms of pressure...

Think we do always need to ask at this point whether Stokes is fit enough to bowl. Almost seems to be a day to day thing whether his body is working at that point!

Pitches with bounce are the best pitches too. Something for both teams.

One of my pet hates - gaps in the slip cordon - has just cost England their fourth wicket
A normal third slip catches that every time...

Moved him now. Too late.

Good for England so far, Broad and Anderson bailing out the rubbish batting for the umpteenth time. Do have to be wary of De Kock and Philander lurking down the order, they always seem to do well against England

What a terrible decision. Anderson looks all fired up and oddly emotional.

Van Der Dussen survives again ...drs finds the inside edge. But he will be glad to have got away from Anderson.

Couple of overs to lunch . Surely a pace man at the other end now ?

Apparently all three SA wickets and 7 of England’s (Denly to spin, Broad and Anderson the ones not) were from the Wynberg End. Hence the theory about Root rotating his seamers from that end and using Bess from the other.

Van Der Dussen doesn't look up to much to me so far.

Stokes fit to bowl then...

Really cannot think why he wasn't used earlier. Surely they can't have decided pace is useless from one of the ends ?

Damn sure VDDussen was happy to see Bess at the other end when he got away from Jimmy...

Good session for England . But reckon Root has - again - missed a chance to go for the throat when he could.
(Bess bowled OK , by the way. But he could have waited)

Strong session for England. Could get tough if Elgar, especially, and Dussen get through the first half hour of the afternoon unscathed with the ball going soft, but right now England are ahead.

Good test match.

Broad and Curran after lunch. I'd have had Broad and Stokes but it appears Root has decided to move to patient mode already. Worked for SA , true , so may be the right plan...but I'd have thought they could full on attack for a little longer. We shall see.

Of course it all depends on whether England can keep the same disciplined line/length that the home team managed yesterday...

Absolute ripper from Broad, but a huge no ball. Another missed chance.

No ball issue becoming a farce. I’ve counted five today from replays alone not called in real time - it must become the responsibility of the TV umpire.

England lacking the same control over the run rate that South Africa had. Whereas Pretorius was fantastically economical, Curran is fantastically wayward.

JDizzle wrote:Apparently all three SA wickets and 7 of England’s (Denly to spin, Broad and Anderson the ones not) were from the Wynberg End. Hence the theory about Root rotating his seamers from that end and using Bess from the other.

Just to go back to this - my final grouch on it , promise : I get that point. And it makes sense for the ongoing plan. Just think there was scope to attack from both ends with SA three down and VDDussen struggling before lunch. Too late now.

Bl..dy hell ! Broad loses his "wicket " of Dussie with a huge overstep

Big moment I think. The fellow still looks all at sea but he seems to have a lucky charm in his pocket today and will probably make a hundred now...

Deflating for England.

I do hate double hits.

Duty281 wrote:No ball issue becoming a farce. I’ve counted five today from replays alone not called in real time - it must become the responsibility of the TV umpire.

England lacking the same control over the run rate that South Africa had. Whereas Pretorius was fantastically economical, Curran is fantastically wayward.

That Stokes no ball is embarrassing. Amir-esque over the line.

Duty281 wrote:No ball issue becoming a farce. I’ve counted five today from replays alone not called in real time - it must become the responsibility of the TV umpire.

England lacking the same control over the run rate that South Africa had. Whereas Pretorius was fantastically economical, Curran is fantastically wayward.

Totally agree on the no balls Duty - it’s absolute madness the ICC haven’t addressed it by now, it’s been an issue for years. Apparently calling no balls only counts on wickets nowadays

Another huge no ball from Stokes missed.

Amir’s glad he didn’t have these umpires when he was doing his little scam!

I remember a Test where Pakistan took a host of England wickets late on day five to win the match. Replays (not used for umpiring in those days ) later showed about five of their wickets fell to big no balls...

Has become a bit silly lately. Umpires seem almost not to bother calling oversteps now , reliant on the technology. Understand it with close calls ; but these big and clear ones - just laziness.

As to the game : SA having a good start post-lunch. Close calls but no wicket and now they will be more confident as the ball ages : England need another wicket. My money on Stokes ...

Alfie - been out from just before the end of the morning session but home now and watching. Not wishing to stir you up further but to add my twopenth about Bess.

I too was surprised he came on so early - like Duty said (think it was Duty) I wanted to see us try to go for the throat with 3 down. My guess is that Root wanted Bess to emulate the role undertaken yesterday by Maharaj and dry up an end allowing the main seamers to continuously bowl at the other.

As I say, not what I would have done but I could just about understand it. Particularly if doubts remain about Stokes' fitness to bowl.

I would add that it's a big ask of Bess. I don't believe Maharaj has been given sufficient credit for how well he did yesterday and the value he added to South Africa's bowling unit.

The South African coaching staff need to have a word with the umpires, or get their captain to. They’ve probably lost out on dozens of runs due to the umpire’s incompetence. Mind you, if England ever take a wicket with someone other than Bess, it’s odds-on to be disallowed due to being a no-ball!

Rabada was bowling a lot of no balls from this end yesterday too; Stokes is always near the edge but seeing Broad overstep is odd.

Hi guildford

Was actually I who was pushing "go for the throat" . Appreciate Bess has bowled quite tidily but think he was on a bit early. Never mind.

These no balls are getting to me : it seems Stokes is overstepping nearly every ball ! If he does get a wicket it is sure to be overturned...

Think SA have got back on top with this partnership - though a couple of wickets would change that. But it is all looking a bit flat compared with the earlier session : really only Anderson likely to bowl that tight spell needed now , and ball no longer doing many tricks as it softens , so SA have a chance to do what England didn't - build a big
partnership.

Anderson’s done well against Dussen, but Stokes spills the chance. Just as England needed a breakthrough.

Not quite sure how VDD is still there.

Anderson really has been all over Dussie...just hasn't quite managed to put him away. That would have been a heck of a catch from Stokes !

With the spinners tidy enough , SA run rate has been brought back. But I am a little fearful of what will happen when Jimmy comes off.

This is normally where Anderson softens someone up like he did Kohli in 18 and then Broad or Curran comes on and takes the credit.

As I feared... Curran on and the runs start flowing .

I like Curran. He had a fine start at Centurion with his four in the first innings... But he appears to be the weakest link here today.

And they can't really afford a weak link.

Nearly a hundred partnership now . May be eventually a match winner , as it is setting SA up for a decent first innings lead (I doubt they'll collapse like England later) there's the hundred stand now

Long way to go but I think England's need for a break is becoming a little urgent.

Duty281 wrote:Strong session for England. Could get tough if Elgar, especially, and Dussen get through the first half hour of the afternoon unscathed with the ball going soft, but right now England are ahead.

Good test match.

Well there we are. Elgar’s been magnificent and Dussen is still there, somehow. Another two sessions of South African batting and England will be quite a bit behind. New ball still another two hours away.

Other than Anderson and Broad, England’s bowling hasn’t been too impressive.

Brilliant session for SA . Had the luck ; but made the most of it.

Unless England can strike - more then once - in the hour after tea they are going to be playing catch up for the remaining days. Expect Broad to bowl after tea : hope he is ready for one of his magic spells...

Bess isn't getting a lot of spin but is bowling with good control here.

Bess and Broad after tea. Correct choice I think.

Bess has been pretty sound without looking particularly dangerous - he's doing his job. But England are again looking to the old faithfuls for the breaks. Maybe this session will see them get a proper reward for some very good bowling earlier...

Soul Requiem wrote:Bess isn't getting a lot of spin but is bowling with good control here.

Doing his role nicely - essentially what Maharaj did for SA yesterday, tying up an end. If he can grab a wicket or two it’d make it a really good job (albeit no help from the pitch)

If I was Van Der Dussen I’d be down the shops and getting a lottery ticket tonight - how has that one from Broad missed the off stump!

Puffs of dust coming up suggest batting last may be no picnic. And Bess may find the second innings gives him more assistance...

But SA are looking on course for a decent lead at the moment : nothing much happening for England and you wonder where a wicket might come from. Have to praise the SA bats for not throwing their wickets away as you feel an England pair would have got bored and done something silly by now.

Long way to that second new ball.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If I was Van Der Dussen I’d be down the shops and getting a lottery ticket tonight - how has that one from Broad missed the off stump!

He has cornered the market for lucky breaks today , hasn't he ? Credit to his persistence but he could have been out at least five times now...

Wow, Elgar’s absolutely thrown it away. 179 balls of solid concentration, just to bin it all in a moment of madness.

Bess has deserved that but what was Elgar thinking?

Seems as though Alfie jinxed them with talk of their approach.