Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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Not a great position for Saints, captain and international level hooker looks likely so they've resorted to signing what is at best squad filler. Presumably Haywood and Fish will carry the bulk of the playing time.

Nick Isiekwe ---> Quins

New rumour online today. That would be a brilliant signing for the Quins pack. Gustard will have a working relationship with Isiekwe already.

Isiekwe and Symons would give Quins the lock pairing they've lacked for a while now. I've been quietly impressed with Symons this season. He hasn't shone as many of us hoped when he signed from being excellent for Chiefs in Super Rugby. He has been steadily strong for Quins this season though. With the strength England have at lock his international opportunities may have passed by but he's still a really good Premiership lock.

Lozowski to Bath is also gaining momentum as a rumour. I could see that being a good fit for both parties.

Lozowski would fit into Baths fast paced back play well but potentially provide the link man with their dangerous back three which they lack at times, particularly when JJ is injured.

If Burns and Roberts (Matavesi won't be costing them nearly what Roberts did) both move on from Bath's current squad then they will have cap room for Lozowski as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51267440

Sam Moore to Cardiff confirmed.

Sounding likely that Rhys Carre will head home to Cardiff as well.

Yep Cardiff buying them up as expected. I think Tompkins and Rowlands are also targets, whether they can get them before anyone else is another matter.

Good to have Moore on board, because I believe this signing is him stating that he intends to follow in the footsteps of his father and uncle.

Guessing England didn't want him

Howley linked with role at Wasps. If it doesn't work out, which it probably won't, then it'll probably be Dai Young's neck on the line too if it isn't already.

Welly wrote:Guessing England didn't want him

EJ compared him to Read and had him train with the England squad before, so I would guess he is rated there. Nick Williams will be departing at the end of this season which will enable Moore to have a few runs at 8.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welly wrote:Guessing England didn't want him

EJ compared him to Read and had him train with the England squad before, so I would guess he is rated there. Nick Williams will be departing at the end of this season which will enable Moore to have a few runs at 8.

Eddie says a lot of things though.
The fact he played for England U20's suggested he wanted to play for England though.

Welly wrote:The fact he played for England U20's suggested he wanted to play for England though.

These days, I don't think you can safely draw any conclusions about national preference from an England U20 appearance. A lot of players with options seem ambivalent more than anything, happy to take a route which has the best chance of getting them to Test rugby.

True.
Although not even playing for Sales A team suggests that the hype simmered down a bit.

Welly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welly wrote:Guessing England didn't want him

EJ compared him to Read and had him train with the England squad before, so I would guess he is rated there. Nick Williams will be departing at the end of this season which will enable Moore to have a few runs at 8.

Eddie says a lot of things though.
The fact he played for England U20's suggested he wanted to play for England though.

Alex Dombrandt played U20s for Wales but now wants to play for England. Moore said in his interview that he always wanted to play for Wales like his father and Uncle.

Hopefully a great signing for Blues.

Rhodri has signed on to let the Ospreys continue to pay his medical bills, let’s hope he can get fit and play rugby he’s been on the sick note list for years

I always half expected Moore to go and play for Wales, I would have been a lot more upset about losing his services 18 months ago. Sadly for him he just doesn't seem to have kicked on, maybe a change of scene will do him good.

For those of a certain age, this reminds of Hugo Ellis. He was England U20 captain and a no.8. There was a tug of war between England and Wales for him, because at age grade he looked like he could go on to be a superstar in a position that was developing into a problem for England. I think I watched and waited for about two/ three years for him to break into the Wasps team, only for him to be released and end up playing Championship rugby.

mikey_dragon wrote:Howley linked with role at Wasps. If it doesn't work out, which it probably won't, then it'll probably be Dai Young's neck on the line too if it isn't already.

The coaching setup desperately needs a refresh. Howley may or may not be a success, but he does have strong ties with Wasps and understands the culture and expectations. Blackett is off to Cov for the head coach role there, so there's a vacancy. Seems to be the "evolution rather than revolution" approach, presumably to avoid paying off contracts.

Cumbrian wrote:I always half expected Moore to go and play for Wales, I would have been a lot more upset about losing his services 18 months ago. Sadly for him he just doesn't seem to have kicked on, maybe a change of scene will do him good.

For those of a certain age, this reminds of Hugo Ellis.  He was England U20 captain and a no.8. There was a tug of war between England and Wales for him, because at age grade he looked like he could go on to be a superstar in a position that was developing into a problem for England.  I think I watched and waited for about two/ three years for him to break into the Wasps team, only for him to be released and end up playing Championship rugby.

See Alex Gray for failed Number 8's.....

Aye, I think we perhaps felt it a bit more keenly at the time because there was a gap in talent for England. The hype train left the station a little early for Mr Gray. Looks like he has been let go from his NFL team too. Still only 28! Seems like a lifetime ago.

He was an outstanding U20s captain though. Such a shame to see someone so obviously talented not reach the heights expected of them, especially so publicly.

Welly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welly wrote:Guessing England didn't want him

EJ compared him to Read and had him train with the England squad before, so I would guess he is rated there. Nick Williams will be departing at the end of this season which will enable Moore to have a few runs at 8.

Eddie says a lot of things though.
The fact he played for England U20's suggested he wanted to play for England though.

Oh whinge-whinge-whinge. It's perhaps the reason why he joined with immediate effect now that Sale are stocked with South Africans at 8, as well as Beaumont (pretty good player). When he had a run of games he impressed and was invited to train with England, and likened to Read. Contrary to popular belief, Uncle Eddie actually knows a thing or two about rugby. I think he (Moore) was 50/50 but now he's leaning more towards Wales.

Rinsure wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Howley linked with role at Wasps. If it doesn't work out, which it probably won't, then it'll probably be Dai Young's neck on the line too if it isn't already.

The coaching setup desperately needs a refresh. Howley may or may not be a success, but he does have strong ties with Wasps and understands the culture and expectations. Blackett is off to Cov for the head coach role there, so there's a vacancy. Seems to be the "evolution rather than revolution" approach, presumably to avoid paying off contracts.

It certainly does, Young has been in the role for a long time and has one final appearance to show for it. Wasps always had a bit of a star-studded team throughout that time too. I wonder what the Exeter coaching teams' secret is to longevity.

Kotaro Matsushima from Sunwolves to Clermont.

Arguably Japan's standout player in RWC, and the first high profile move to a European club (I think)?

Very surprised that there are so few comments about Sinkler going to Bristol. It would be interesting to see how they are operating under the salary cap, they have a lot of biog m=names there now and look to be looking for more.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Very surprised that there are so few comments about Sinkler going to Bristol. It would be interesting to see how they are operating under the salary cap, they have a lot of biog m=names there now and look to be looking for more.

There was someone else linked to Bristol today... Kvesic.

Piutau and Radradra are clearly going to be the marquees, with Hughes and Sinckler on top dollar in the cap. I don't think they'd risk pushing the cap, but they have some names in there for sure.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Very surprised that there are so few comments about Sinkler going to Bristol. It would be interesting to see how they are operating under the salary cap, they have a lot of biog m=names there now and look to be looking for more.

Radrada, C Piutau, Luatua, Hughes and Sinkler are on big money. Madigan is very highly paid but is out of contract at the end of the season. After that it's a lot of astute recruitment by Pat Lam.

After Radrada and Piuatau the next highest paid backs will be the likes of Morahan and Leiua. They won't be on big money but Bristol get a lot of quality for that money. Similar with Hurrell and Siale Piutau in the centre. Neither will be on big contracts but are very good centres. Academy grads like Sheedy and O'Connor are quality performers but will be great value. The shrewd investment in talented youngsters from elsewhere like Randall and Protheroe.

Luatau, Hughes and Sinkler are big money signings. Next highest paid forwards are the likes of Attwood, 36-year old John Afoa and Harry Thacker. Thacker is a great example, he's likely earning less than Youngs and Polota-Nau at Tigers for instance but has offered Bristol much more since signing. Dan Thomas signed after drifting through Scarlets and Gloucester but is now a top Prem 7. Yann Thomas signed from 3rd Div in France but has been reliable for them at loosehead, which is a position where a lot of clubs spend big.

6 highly paid players - Radrada, C Piutau, Luatua, Hughes and Sinkler - 4 of whom will fall within the cap.

Pat Lam has done a fantastic job building his squad.

EDIT: Duplicate post

king_carlos wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Very surprised that there are so few comments about Sinkler going to Bristol. It would be interesting to see how they are operating under the salary cap, they have a lot of biog m=names there now and look to be looking for more.

Radrada, C Piutau, Luatua, Hughes and Sinkler are on big money. Madigan is very highly paid but is out of contract at the end of the season. After that it's a lot of astute recruitment by Pat Lam.

After Radrada and Piuatau the next highest paid backs will be the likes of Morahan and Leiua. They won't be on big money but Bristol get a lot of quality for that money. Similar with Hurrell and Siale Piutau in the centre. Neither will be on big contracts but are very good centres. Academy grads like Sheedy and O'Connor are quality performers but will be great value. The shrewd investment in talented youngsters from elsewhere like Randall and Protheroe.

Luatau, Hughes and Sinkler are big money signings. Next highest paid forwards are the likes of Attwood, 36-year old John Afoa and Harry Thacker. Thacker is a great example, he's likely earning less than Youngs and Polota-Nau at Tigers for instance but has offered Bristol much more since signing. Dan Thomas signed after drifting through Scarlets and Gloucester but is now a top Prem 7. Yann Thomas signed from 3rd Div in France but has been reliable for them at loosehead, which is a position where a lot of clubs spend big.

6 highly paid players - Radrada, C Piutau, Luatua, Hughes and Sinkler - 4 of whom will fall within the cap.

Pat Lam has done a fantastic job building his squad.

Great comment, and I agree Pat Lam has done a fabulous job assembling the squad he has. There is a clear vision he is selling, which people are buying into and it's great for the club.

I'd probably add Chris Vui into your "second tier", behind the top dollar players, but he's again what you'd class as "good value".

Yeh.
But what people are forgetting is how many of those players have had or will sign contract extensions?
How much do you think re-signings have to factor in the wage?

Welly wrote: Yeh.
But what people are forgetting is how many of those players have had or will sign contract extensions?
How much do you think re-signings have to factor in the wage?

Very true, Welly. Keeping players who's value improves whilst at a club is the challenge almost all clubs face.

That is also I'd guess why Bristol released 10 players over the summer, brought in 9 with 2 of them academy grads, one from Welsh Premiership and one a project from College NFL (old viral star Tyrese Johnson-Fisher).

I'd hope Harry got a bigger contract at extension given how good he's been for them.

Afoa could well have cost less at extension given his age. Jordan Crane is retiring at the end of the season. Ian Madigan will be moving on or signing a much lower extension.

Dan Thomas, Sheedy and O'Connor will be their big concerns at re-signing time you'd imagine now. Thomas is on the WRU and regions radar.

Finding cost effective players and consistently improving them in a clubs set-up is a great skill and one that Lam seems to have. Chiefs are another great example of this. At tighthead they have signed Williams and Francis from the Championship and overseen them become internationals.

I think Ospreys are also trying to get Tompkins. No recruitment tales from Dragons yet is worrying.

Dragins been linked to Joe Thomas

Welly wrote: Dragins been linked to Joe Thomas

Talented player but he needs game time to progress so no surprise he's not staying at Tigers longer.

Thomas has looked solid but unspectacular so far. He's had limited opportunities though. He doesn't really fit in with what we want from an outside or an inside centre. He's not creative enough to play 12 for us and at 13 we're looking for a powerful ball carrier and he's been quiet in attack so far. He's fallen behind Worth who can play 10/12/13/15 as the development option and behind the established centre options Eastmond/Reid at 12 and Manu/Taute at 13.

Welly wrote: Yeh.
But what people are forgetting is how many of those players have had or will sign contract extensions?
How much do you think re-signings have to factor in the wage?

This is very true, all bar one successful Prem teams have had to deal with losing key players after a successful season or two as negotiations come around and a players worth goes up. I don't know if it's feasible but it'd be interesting to make a clause in the cap that allows players who've been at a club for a number of years to deduct a % of their new salary from the cap, perhaps that amount could then increase dependent on number of years at the club.

We're a curious one in that regards. We're massively under the salary cap / budget. Lowest in the league.  And yet i dont believe that has anything to do with our constantly sitting at the bottom of the league or being relegated.

I actually think we recruit well in the bargain basement. we have signed some cracking players through the years.

Our problem is that we just dont use our academy enough...and thats solely down to Dean Richards. Its genuinely baffling what he does with the kids.

And our prehistoric tactics...again solely at the feet of Dean Richards.

I think its time he moved on.

Dunno GF you did have that season you finished quite high up the league before you hot relegated. Deano clearly still has some idea of what he's doing. Maybe it's time he moved upstairs and let someone a bit more dynamic take the DOR job. Sort of what Steve Diamond attempted a few years back.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Dunno GF you did have that season you finished quite high up the league before you hot relegated. Deano clearly still has some idea of what he's doing. Maybe it's time he moved upstairs and let someone a bit more dynamic take the DOR job. Sort of what Steve Diamond attempted a few years back.

GF - as an Irish fan, don't underestimate the Championship. You sometimes have to win ugly in that league. Getting promoted is all that counts. Deano will hopefully have the side playing a better brand when you come up.

Gary Graham puts the Glasgow move to bed and signs on for the Falcons for another 2 years. They have done well to hang on to him.

Sam, we finished 4th but we won a stack of games woth a last ditch try etc. Belied the actual rugby.

Sir Burger i appreciate that , however bar one season about 5/6 ago when we played some fantastic attacking rugby with JP Socino at 12...its been prerty dire. So its not just this season and last...

Is Dave Walder still Attack Coach or was he promoted to Head Coach?

Joe Gray rejoins Quins until the end of the season. First of many Sarries leaving.

SirBurger wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Dunno GF you did have that season you finished quite high up the league before you hot relegated. Deano clearly still has some idea of what he's doing. Maybe it's time he moved upstairs and let someone a bit more dynamic take the DOR job. Sort of what Steve Diamond attempted a few years back.

GF - as an Irish fan, don't underestimate the Championship. You sometimes have to win ugly in that league. Getting promoted is all that counts. Deano will hopefully have the side playing a better brand when you come up.

As the relegated side you're every other Championship teams "cup final" - it's a chance for the ambitious teams to pay down a marker - "we're as good as you lot" and the smaller teams a chance to put some pain on players they only saw on TV

Irish Londoner wrote:

SirBurger wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Dunno GF you did have that season you finished quite high up the league before you hot relegated. Deano clearly still has some idea of what he's doing. Maybe it's time he moved upstairs and let someone a bit more dynamic take the DOR job. Sort of what Steve Diamond attempted a few years back.

GF - as an Irish fan, don't underestimate the Championship. You sometimes have to win ugly in that league. Getting promoted is all that counts. Deano will hopefully have the side playing a better brand when you come up.

As the relegated side you're every other Championship teams "cup final" - it's a chance for the ambitious teams to pay down a marker - "we're as good as you lot" and the smaller teams a chance to put some pain on players they only saw on TV

Those players also know by making the mark against previously Prem level players it is the best way to put themselves in the shop window for a move to a Premiership team.

LondonTiger wrote:Is Dave Walder still Attack Coach or was he promoted to Head Coach?

Head coach LT...still in charge of attack though.

Singleton to Tigers seems to be gaining traction.

LondonTiger wrote:Singleton to Tigers seems to be gaining traction.

Makes sense on several levels really. He doesn't want to play in the Championship and has already fallen down the England pecking order being number 2 at Sarries. We need a hooker to replace TPN (Youngs also could retire) so it makes sense to try and get a young player who's already got international recognition but who isn't automatically in the match day squad. The fact Singleton is a bit of a unit but still mobile enough to have played an England friendly at flanker is just a bonus.

Yeah, I quite like the prospect of Singleton joining. Salary wise he would be lower than both OTY and TPN individually and would be a good pairing with Jake Kerr with reserve options from Clare and Stevens (assuming Youngs does retire). Thus money is available for other positions.

That would make a considerable amount available for other positions. Worries me that Kerr isn't getting much of a look in at the minute, hoping to see him break back through before the end of the season. I'd be happy with Singleton, Kerr, Clare and Stevens. I'd be even happier is Stevens went and we got Woolstencroft in as well, unlikely though.

We do need to strengthen in other areas more than hooker though if the hooker could reliably throw to his jumper that would be nice. If we could save money at hooker and invest at lock then that would help, the impact of Lavanini has been immense this season.

Holy crap, Munster going balls out:

"Damien de Allende, Matt Gallagher and RG Snyman will join the province at the beginning of the 2020/21 season."

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1223229806998933504

Little disappointing, I was kinda hoping Wasps might pluck Snyman from Japan before anyone else did. Ah well.

Wow, heck of a raft of signings.

Unpopular opinion: Munster are pretty average, especially their backline. Gallagher and de Allende might make a difference there, along with Carberry being more available. Munster are good up front and that'll just get better with Snyman.

Gallagher won't bring much xfactor with him he's not really that kind of player. If anything I'd say he's similar in style to Haley. Solid under the high ball, good all round skillset etc. He is a bit quicker the Haley though so might be more dangerous in attack he's unlikely to get you off your seat though.

The Boks are just two massive units that will add physicality in their positions on the field. Really good signings, again more of the Munster uncompromising physicality than flair players

Rumours on another forum suggesting Tigers are after Ali Crossdale and Ben Earl from Sarries. Crossdale possibly but I can't see us managing to nick Earl though he would be an ideal replacement for Guy Thompson.