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Scotland 6 Nations Thread

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Post by Highland Shaun on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 11:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

With the 6N fast approaching, I thought I'd be the first to start a thread for it, my team being Scotland because its my nationality lol.

First of all, we know that Danny Wilson won't be coaching as he's off to coach Glasgow plus there are rumours of Matt Taylor the assistant going with Rennie to Australia so that leaves a couple of vacancies available, hopefully after the 6N, the main head coach one will be available too, which I would suspect Richard Cockerill would be the outright fav for, but that's a topic for after the 6N.

So, who would you like to see be in our 6N squad, are there any new caps that are likely, are there any players possibly getting recalls or would we likely see any younger players get a shot.

This is the place to discuss so go ahead 😉.

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Post by bsando on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 8:51 am

Here is a quick look into the differing attacks of Scotland 2017 and Scotland 2020.

2017 - Scotland vs Ireland



Each time Scotland enter Ireland’s 22 they vary their attack and maintain the tempo and intensity.They look assured in what they’re trying to do. Examples below..



https://youtu.be/hycFUlu9Uk8?t=2079


Hogg’s try here from 40m out


https://youtu.be/hycFUlu9Uk8?t=3402



That is three trys from three ventures into Ireland’s 22 when in attack. 



2020 - Ireland vs Scotland



Scotland start fast and with width but after entering the 22 go through four short, slower phases. Irish defence resets and Johnny Gray gets turned over.



Second foray into the Irish 22, after 10 phases, results in an Ireland infringement and 3 points for Scotland.



Third visit to the Irish 22 for penalty line out results in a botched line out maul and scrum Ireland.



Fourth foray into the Irish 22 is a successful lineout and two phases of strong carrying right up to the 5m line. However, Ireland win an easy turnover as JG, Sutherland and Cummings push the Scottish ballcarrier forwards and all go down in the ruck. No one is there after them to secure ball and prevent VDF poaching it back.



Fifth attacking chance in Ireland 22 at 29 minutes mark is a scrum thanks to an Ireland knock on. Scotland win and have a first phase, two pass crash ball, very direct and effective. Next phase Price hesitates and tries an inside pass to a stationary Maitland who tries to use footwork to get around the remnants of the ruck. He’s an easy target for the defence and the double tackle results in a stripped ball and turnover.



So the contrast in attack is quite striking actually. Despite both teams (the 2017 team and the 2020 team) looking to go through the hands and attack Ireland, the current side are losing their heads and making silly errors where it matters. The team of 2017 are more composed and pick their moments to go to the backs with what turns out to be deadly accuracy. The platform is there. They’re actually not getting over the gainline nearly as much or carrying as effectively as the current team are, but that doesn’t matter, because they vary the attack and disrupt the Irish defence. The most they pick and drive is 4-5 phases and it is usually to setup a backs move.



The side who lost to Ireland this year look sloppy in comparison. They do one thing very well, only to look lost the next phase. I also have be critical of Price here. I think he is a bit directionless at times. The 4th entry to the 22 for example, he is there and see’s the Irish defence is about to snatch that ball as Scottish carriers go to ground, but he just stands there, expecting the ball. He needed to be reading the situation, calling Fagerson and Haining into that ruck to secure the ball. George Horne has been starting for Glasgow, is the in form scrum half, so why is he not starting for Scotland?

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 9:24 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
BigGee wrote:There was a suggestion that Shuggy got injured in the England game, maybe Hutch will come in to replace him if that was the case. I think he deserves some game time and Italy is a game we might be able to experiment with a little bit.

I can see Skinner starting now Gray is injured and maybe Craig on the bench as well. Matt fagerson might come back into the back row mix as well, assuming he is fit now, we will know more if he plays for Glasgow on Friday.

I think there might be a few changes actually, not full tombola maybe, but certainly a few.

Well Hutch would be the correct choice, but I think Toonie has made it clear that he sees Chris Harris as the superior player. He's the one coming off the bench for impact. Utterly inexplicable.

thats three words that shouldnt be uttered at the same time ina rugby context!
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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 10:04 am

bsando wrote:Here is a quick look into the differing attacks of Scotland 2017 and Scotland 2020.

2017 - Scotland vs Ireland



Each time Scotland enter Ireland’s 22 they vary their attack and maintain the tempo and intensity.They look assured in what they’re trying to do. Examples below..



https://youtu.be/hycFUlu9Uk8?t=2079


Hogg’s try here from 40m out


https://youtu.be/hycFUlu9Uk8?t=3402



That is three trys from three ventures into Ireland’s 22 when in attack. 



2020 - Ireland vs Scotland



Scotland start fast and with width but after entering the 22 go through four short, slower phases. Irish defence resets and Johnny Gray gets turned over.



Second foray into the Irish 22, after 10 phases, results in an Ireland infringement and 3 points for Scotland.



Third visit to the Irish 22 for penalty line out results in a botched line out maul and scrum Ireland.



Fourth foray into the Irish 22 is a successful lineout and two phases of strong carrying right up to the 5m line. However, Ireland win an easy turnover as JG, Sutherland and Cummings push the Scottish ballcarrier forwards and all go down in the ruck. No one is there after them to secure ball and prevent VDF poaching it back.



Fifth attacking chance in Ireland 22 at 29 minutes mark is a scrum thanks to an Ireland knock on. Scotland win and have a first phase, two pass crash ball, very direct and effective. Next phase Price hesitates and tries an inside pass to a stationary Maitland who tries to use footwork to get around the remnants of the ruck. He’s an easy target for the defence and the double tackle results in a stripped ball and turnover.



So the contrast in attack is quite striking actually. Despite both teams (the 2017 team and the 2020 team) looking to go through the hands and attack Ireland, the current side are losing their heads and making silly errors where it matters. The team of 2017 are more composed and pick their moments to go to the backs with what turns out to be deadly accuracy. The platform is there. They’re actually not getting over the gainline nearly as much or carrying as effectively as the current team are, but that doesn’t matter, because they vary the attack and disrupt the Irish defence. The most they pick and drive is 4-5 phases and it is usually to setup a backs move.



The side who lost to Ireland this year look sloppy in comparison. They do one thing very well, only to look lost the next phase. I also have be critical of Price here. I think he is a bit directionless at times. The 4th entry to the 22 for example, he is there and see’s the Irish defence is about to snatch that ball as Scottish carriers go to ground, but he just stands there, expecting the ball. He needed to be reading the situation, calling Fagerson and Haining into that ruck to secure the ball. George Horne has been starting for Glasgow, is the in form scrum half, so why is he not starting for Scotland?

Good post. One answer. Townsend is attack coach.

Would be interesting to compare the attack during his tenure as backs coach as well (to be fair, less talent but exact same problem).

The gameplan is obviously not one that gives the players confidence to back themselves, it's like putting a full dance routine to a toddler playing a xylophone. As the unexpected notes come up no-one knows what to do. A similar problem with Hodge. Funny how all Scottish backs coaches seem to be control freaks!

We need another O'Halloran. Simple attack with well executed moves when they're on. None of this trying to be clever following a script based on the average amount of minutes from extensive analysis it takes to break down the oppositions' defence. Just good support play and confidence in handling skills. Like we had in 2017.



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Post by Tramptastic on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 10:16 am

For those discussing Scotland's attack, good article in rugbypass here:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-why-adam-hastings-has-proved-scotland-will-be-fine-without-finn-russell

shows that the attack is working but it's poor decisions in key moments (Price being a bit guilty of not following what his 10 wants)

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 10:22 am

Look I'm not one of thon poncy backs that spend more time keeping their kit clean or topping up their fake tan - honestly we had a fullback that whenever he was tackled, he rarely made a tackle himself, every time he got up, rather than look to get back into position right away, he'd make sure his hair do was all in order.

Anyway, as I was saying, I'm not a back, but I think we're spread too wide across the pitch. When a player makes a break or if they are tackled, it seems our players are too far away from each other to support. This is why we're being outplayed at the breakdown. We're just not getting there in time.

It must be a tactic thing to try and stretch the opposition, but all they do is stack the side of the field where the ball is and drift form side to side following where the attack is going.

We need more direct running or explosive ball carries up the middle to tie the defence in then we can look to go wide.
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Post by tigertattie on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 12:34 pm

Tramptastic wrote:For those discussing Scotland's attack, good article in rugbypass here:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-why-adam-hastings-has-proved-scotland-will-be-fine-without-finn-russell

shows that the attack is working but it's poor decisions in key moments (Price being a bit guilty of not following what his 10 wants)

Most intertesting.

Again showing Price is a bit poopie by all accounts. Lets get wee George on (though in the video on that page, you see him over running McInally which meant Rambo had to pass to Hamish - if it had gone to Horne, who knows what his pace could have done)
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Post by RDW on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 1:18 pm

Hogg is playing for Exeter tomorrow night.

Not ideal but that's the reality for him now! At least it's a Friday night game so more time to recover.

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 2:26 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
BigGee wrote:There was a suggestion that Shuggy got injured in the England game, maybe Hutch will come in to replace him if that was the case. I think he deserves some game time and Italy is a game we might be able to experiment with a little bit.

I can see Skinner starting now Gray is injured and maybe Craig on the bench as well. Matt fagerson might come back into the back row mix as well, assuming he is fit now, we will know more if he plays for Glasgow on Friday.

I think there might be a few changes actually, not full tombola maybe, but certainly a few.

Well Hutch would be the correct choice, but I think Toonie has made it clear that he sees Chris Harris as the superior player. He's the one coming off the bench for impact. Utterly inexplicable.

I think Harris was brought on as a more conservative option. It feels like a long time ago now, but there was that brief period in the second-half when we looked a vaguely competent rugby side and England couldn't do anything right. I think Toonie brought on Harris with the assumption we were about to go ahead and we'd need to see the game out. Obviously the wrong call, then and with hindsight. That is the sort of call he needs to be getting right going into the last three rounds.

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Post by jimbopip on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 3:13 pm

Trying to double guess the Lord Of The Almighty Tombola is a pastime for fools and charlatans. So here goes...

Haircut will start. He needs lots of time in the driving seat.
Ragnar will start on the bench, he will be crucial against Wales and France and needs a rest.
King Blairhorn at 15. Hoggy needs a rest before the last two matches and another howler and defeat could really rattle his confidence.
The Quiet Fijian to make his debut.

There will be two or three other Tombola picks but I shall wait for my spirit guide to get back to me before typing any more.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 4:24 pm

Hoggy starts for Exeter with Sam Skinner on the bench against Gloucester, who have Harris starting as well. Alex Craig gets the week off though.

I am not sure that Scotland have even been training this week, with so many players released back to their clubs. We will probably see a new squad announced tomorrow and everyone getting together again on sunday. That does not give them to long to prepare for the game as you would assume that they will fly out to Rome on Thursday.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 7:44 am

123456789. wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
BigGee wrote:There was a suggestion that Shuggy got injured in the England game, maybe Hutch will come in to replace him if that was the case. I think he deserves some game time and Italy is a game we might be able to experiment with a little bit.

I can see Skinner starting now Gray is injured and maybe Craig on the bench as well. Matt fagerson might come back into the back row mix as well, assuming he is fit now, we will know more if he plays for Glasgow on Friday.

I think there might be a few changes actually, not full tombola maybe, but certainly a few.

Well Hutch would be the correct choice, but I think Toonie has made it clear that he sees Chris Harris as the superior player. He's the one coming off the bench for impact. Utterly inexplicable.

I think Harris was brought on as a more conservative option. It feels like a long time ago now, but there was that brief period in the second-half when we looked a vaguely competent rugby side and England couldn't do anything right. I think Toonie brought on Harris with the assumption we were about to go ahead and we'd need to see the game out. Obviously the wrong call, then and with hindsight. That is the sort of call he needs to be getting right going into the last three rounds.

My problem with Harris is that he just isn't particularly good at anything. He offers no threat whatsoever, but he isn't exactly powerful either. He's a Scotland centre from the 2000s, and that is not a complement. He just runs around slowly. His basics are ok, and if he can catch his man he'll make a tackle, but he is just so utterly average.

Bennett, Hutchinson, Taylor and Scott (even at 13) are frankly just better players. I'd play Hogg at 13 ahead of Harris, and move Kinghorn to fullback.

Mediocrity will get us nowhere in international rugby, however hard it needs to work to become mediocre.

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 9:10 am

It's Toonie so he'll always be toonie, but for me, Matt Scott 12 would have been a much better option to start vs England. We knew the weather was to be rotten and his direct running is far far better than Mr One Season Johnson.

The problem we have now is that if players like Johnson and some of the other home based players dont play vs Italy then they could be looking at 4 weeks between a game which isnt ideal.
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Post by bsando on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 11:08 am

Harris is a good link player, he runs good lines and out of all our centres I'm pretty sure he is the fittest. I've watched him at Gloucester a bit this season and his work rate is impressive. He has started most games as well.

Jones is definitely the centre with the best all round skillset though and I really want to see him get a chance to build up a run of good performances and become Scotland's very own BOD. I guess it is down to the coaches to decide how many chances he gets and if he deserves to be starting at 13 ahead of other players.

I wonder what they'll go for against Italy next weekend? I think consistency in this area is a good idea though. If we can see Johnson/Jones clicking that sets it up nicely for France 2 weeks later which will be a very open and expansive game assuming the weather is okay.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 12:22 pm

With FES on Harris. He occasionally produces something good but not often enough. Beyond that he's just a very solid player, I'll give him credit he's better than Morrison was and miles beyond Henderson but compared to the likes of Hutchinson, Bennett and Scott he's probably my fourth choice. Like Pete Horne just because he's a good club player doesn't mean he's a good international. I hope Bennett shows up well this weekend, I think he's due a callback and was unlucky to miss out imo.

I'd like to see:
Sutherland
McInally
Fagerson
Cummings
GG
Ritchie
Watson
Haining

Horne
Hastings

Kinghorn
Johnson
Jones
Maitland
Hogg

Bench of: Brown, Dell, Nel (more solidity and less of a penalty machine than Berghan), Craig (lineout hasn't performed with Toolis either, so may as well give this lad a run), Crosbie, Price, Hutchinson, Scott
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Post by RDW on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 1:39 pm

Darcy Graham is back in training!  Yahoo

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 2:38 pm

RDW wrote:Darcy Graham is back in training!  Yahoo

This is massive news. If he is fit it gives us an additional dimension. Italy will be too soon (bench maybe), but I'd stick him straight in against France. We've had nothing from our wingers so far. Maitland is another basics only type of player these days (although even basics under the high ball have been poor) with seemingly no acceleration, and Kinghorn doesn't convince me at all as a winger. Much better at 15.

We need a couple of young speedsters to come through. It would help Hogg as well, as with the current side he is really the only player the opposition have to worry about.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 2:44 pm

I think your team for Italy is about right RDW. The only quibble from me is whether Mark Bennett might be worth a start in place of Huw Jones. I'm a big Jones fan and am totally willing to give him more game time, but Bennett has been on terrific form this season and looked really sharp. This is absolutely must win for us, and despite the two defeats the Italians have looked really good in patches. We have to be ruthless and put the chances away. For me, Bennett is best placed on the evidence of this season.

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Post by RDW on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 2:49 pm

This should be a dry track and we'll want to play at pace - perfect for Jones IMO.

Also agree on Graham - our backs have been very one dimensional and he adds a completely different threat. I actually think Kinghorn has been the better performer out of the two wingers. He's at least provided a threat.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 3:19 pm

Weir and CDP playing for Worcester

Hutchy playing for Saints at 12!

Taylor on the bench for Sarries, Maitland gets a rest

McGuigan plays for Sale

Dell benches for LI

Hoggy starts for Exeter and Skinner benches.

Quite a lot of our squad are playing this weekend, hope they all come through unscathed.

Not necessarily international related but interesting all the same, Rory Hughes starts for Tigers as does Glen Young for Quins.

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Post by bsando on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 5:07 pm

It all feels eerily familiar...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51507013

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/17343472




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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 5:08 pm

I actually rate Hughes, and he would have been pretty handy last weekend. We can't be too picky about wingers, the cupboard is bare.

It's a shame that Hogg has to start. A week off would have done him some good I think. I'm actually pleased that Hutch is starting. He's been sat on his hands for two weeks watching dross. A bit of proper coaching from Boyd will be a tonic.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 5:11 pm

bsando wrote:It all feels eerily familiar...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51507013

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/17343472


Well if Andy Nicol says something, you pretty much know the opposite is true.....

That said, it's odd to pick on Toonie over one of the few things he's possibly handled pretty well. His coaching abilities, squad selections and track record are a more appropriate target in my view.

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Post by RDW on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 5:12 pm

Fagerson the first player to stand up for Toonie and tell Russell he needs to change then.

Good on him!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 5:52 pm

Hard not to be impressed by Fagerson. Huge potential for us, and very positive that Sutherland is looking a good bet to partner him long term at loosehead.

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Post by RDW on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 7:23 pm

Mark Palmer tweeted he's off to France again this weekend. A Finn Russell response interview??

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Post by BigGee on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 7:35 pm

RDW wrote:Mark Palmer tweeted he's off to France again this weekend. A Finn Russell response interview??

GL or RG maybe?

He would be well advised to let the Finn Russell stuff lie! Good scoop for him, but did not help the situation!

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Post by RDW on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 9:26 pm

Lovely try from hoggy tonight. Good break then great pace to score in the corner. He made a big deal about putting the ball down in two hands!

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Post by BigGee on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 9:47 pm

Well a few Glasgow players put their hands up tonight to be in thee team

George Horne had an outstanding game and score 2 and had a PT given for what should have been his third

Matt Fagerson carried hard all night

George Turner was abrasive and good ball in hand, he only messed up one lineout as well, which is better than any of our other hookers!

They are all likely to be in the mix now!

Jamie Dobie also showed us why he might be going on the summer tour!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 10:39 pm

George Horne has been outstanding for a while now, and is clearly our best 9. Doubt Toonie will pick him to start though.

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 9:37 am

I think there's more chance of Middle Fagerson starting, or even The Mullett. Mind you, Little Big Horne should get a decent amount of time on the pitch even if it's off the bench.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 9:54 am

I really do think Horne has earned a start

Maybe that was the plan all along, let Price start first 2 games then see. They both seem tk be pushing each other aling and based on last night, Dobie will be joinning the mix soon

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Post by bsando on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 10:36 am

I agree, I was convinced he'd start at the beginning of the 6N. Price hasn't been dramatically worse but Horne is the sharper of the two, while Price probably has a slightly better exit game than wee Horne. Horne has become a joy to watch under Rennie's Glasgow.

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Post by RDW on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 9:15 am


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Post by RDW on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 11:16 am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/john-barclay-column-finn-russell-scotland-respect

Barclay has his say. He's not taking sides but certainly has a lot of understanding for what Finn's done (which is perhaps no surprise given his own experience with the SRU).

It's also an interesting point that it could be argued as an unselfish act from Finn if he knew he couldn't work I'm that environment, to the detriment of his own health and the team.

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Post by RDW on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 11:47 am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gregor-townsend-must-sort-finn-russell-mess-out-x5xwsrxnx

Jim Hamilton saying Townsend needs to make the first move to get Finn back, or at least show that he's tried.

He says it needs to be done now, but with the squad announcement today that's clearly not happened!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:00 pm

I think maybe this has to go on the backburner now. Even I, with all my dislike of Toonie, am tired of the FRexit articles that keep coming out. He's gone his way, Toonie is going his way. I think we'll just have to see what happens. If Scotland start playing some absolutely peachy stuff then I feel like FR may reconsider his position and think about apologising. Or maybe not. Him and Toonie are stubborn but Toonie did make the point that they've worked together a long time without as much problems, which is fair even if I don't think Toonie's got it right with Scotland.  

Equally could be a case of Barclay syndrome, and we don't see Finn back in camp until 2022 even if he wins back to back titles with Racing as leader supreme... or it could be as soon as the summer or autumn if a new coach comes in, although hard to see how that will change things much, as Finn will still need to make peace with the team.  

For now Hastings is playing well and I'm happy for him that he's got his chance, even if our attack isn't working (but that's not really Hastings' fault to be honest).

It's all a bit melodramatic and I'm sure both will look back on this in a few years the same way I look back on university photos.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:47 pm

RDW wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/john-barclay-column-finn-russell-scotland-respect

Barclay has his say. He's not taking sides but certainly has a lot of understanding for what Finn's done (which is perhaps no surprise given his own experience with the SRU).

It's also an interesting point that it could be argued as an unselfish act from Finn if he knew he couldn't work I'm that environment, to the detriment of his own health and the team.

That was a carefully crafted bit of wordsmithery. I bet he looked at that a few times and got others to proof read it before pressing send!

He does succeed in walking the line though.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:58 pm

RDW wrote:https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gregor-townsend-must-sort-finn-russell-mess-out-x5xwsrxnx

Jim Hamilton saying Townsend needs to make the first move to get Finn back, or at least show that he's tried.

He says it needs to be done now, but with the squad announcement today that's clearly not happened!

I think the interview last weekend put the chance of a reconciliation this week all but impossible, according to Townsend, he had planned to try and do it this week.

He may or may not come back to it during the next break after the Italy game. especially if Scotland win and the pressure is off him and the team a bit.

I disagree with Jim though that it needs to be made public if he tries and fails. There is nothing to be gained for any more of this being played out in public.

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Post by 123456789. on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:59 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if he's decided to leave it now til after the Six Nations. Ultimately Townsend is coaching for his job in the next three games. If Finn Russell is not happy with the environment, then it would be odd if he chucked himself into sustaining it. It's much easier, having thrown the grenade into the mix, to let it explode and see where the pieces are. If Scotland win the next three games, he can climb down and Townsend has made it clear he'll have him back if he does. If Scotland lose the next three games then he will feel he has been vindicated.
It doesn't seem that Finn Russell is a long-term thinker, nor prone to introspection. The long term damage he'll have done to his reputation here may come back to bite him. Rugby coaches tend to be old school. If Gatland decides Sexton is probably going to be his first choice 10 in South Africa, and Farrell will travel as fly-half/ centre cover which is the likely course of events. Russell would have been the candidate to come too, he's been the form 10 at club level for a couple of seasons now. He offers something different as well. But now, Ford has stepped up in this Six Nations. Biggar has travelled before as third choice. It may prove not worth the risk to take Russell if he's going to rock the boat.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 10:01 am

Oh Russell wont be on any lions tour now

1. Gatland is in charge
2. Gatland still loves Biggar
3. Russell isnt currently playing international rugby (and may not be if Toonie stays with Scotland)
4. Russell has been a bit of a petulent child (Galtland wouldnt stand for this)
5. Gatland is in charge
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Post by lostinwales on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 11:34 am

tigertattie wrote:Oh Russell wont be on any lions tour now

1. Gatland is in charge
2. Gatland still loves Biggar
3. Russell isnt currently playing international rugby (and may not be if Toonie stays with Scotland)
4. Russell has been a bit of a petulent child (Galtland wouldnt stand for this)
5. Gatland is in charge

Wasn't there one Lions tour where the only member of the Welsh 1st choice 15 who didn't go was Biggar?

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Post by RDW on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 11:38 am

Daily Fail reporting that Townsend will be sacked at the end of the 6N if we lose to Italy.

I don't think that story would have taken a lot of investigation...

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 11:46 am

RDW wrote:Daily Fail reporting that Townsend will be sacked at the end of the 6N if we lose to Italy.

I don't think that story would have taken a lot of investigation...

What if we lose to Italy but then sweep aside France and Wales?

Also, if we lose to italy, would the SRU even wait till the end of the tournament to sack him? He could be punted and Jim mallinder takes over as interim coach???
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Post by BigGee on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 11:51 am

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Daily Fail reporting that Townsend will be sacked at the end of the 6N if we lose to Italy.

I don't think that story would have taken a lot of investigation...

What if we lose to Italy but then sweep aside France and Wales?

Also, if we lose to italy, would the SRU even wait till the end of the tournament to sack him? He could be punted and Jim mallinder takes over as interim coach???

Someone getting a bit ahead of themselves.

Robertson, whoes column it was has just tweeted that was his opinion, not based on any facts (again, not rocket science!). He also said that no decesions made until after end of 6N, so yes, if we lost to Italy then beat France and Wales, it could easily be pulled back!

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Post by R!skysports on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 12:10 pm

Just noticed this

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne: Exeter Chiefs sign Scotland scrum-half from Lyon

Good move for him to get more exposure and maybe a chance to re-ignite his international career. Exeter becoming our 3rd pro team :-)

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 12:13 pm

It could but i somehow doubt we'd come back from losing against Italy who, arguably, are in even more disarray than us this year. They are currently worse than Georgia who we still scraped past away from home, if Toonie cant get Scotland past them then I doubt we'll be beating France or Wales, especially wales away from home! So probability-wise Toonie would get sacked at the end, or may jump before.

Still games to play though. Imo most likely scenario is the Italy game and good defence will save Toonie's bacon. Whether he stays after that kind of tournament I dont know. He's made Scotland his project for better or worse (mostly worse) so its hard to see him jumping unless we get walloped in the games after italy.
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Post by RDW on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 12:17 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:It could but i somehow doubt we'd come back from losing against Italy who, arguably, are in even more disarray than us this year. They are currently worse than Georgia who we still scraped past away from home, if Toonie cant get Scotland past them then I doubt we'll be beating France or Wales, especially wales away from home! So probability-wise Toonie would get sacked at the end, or may jump before.

Still games to play though. Imo most likely scenario is the Italy game and good defence will save Toonie's bacon. Whether he stays after that kind of tournament I dont know. He's made Scotland his project for better or worse (mostly worse) so its hard to see him jumping unless we get walloped in the games after italy.
 We pumped them 44-10! Was a decent performance from memory.

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 12:19 pm

I think we may well beat Italy and pull off a surprise win against Wales while losing to France by less than 7 points too. Come the end of the Six Nations, the line will be trotted out that a bounce of the ball could have made all the difference in our games.A bit more luck and they could have won the Grand Slam. The Russell debacle will be span into a positive for Townsend; stuff will emerge about how we did well considering our best player walked out. All of which is not far from the truth. It's just that we've been there so many times before.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 12:20 pm

Sorry was getting my scores mixed up!
Ok well we beat georgia so if we lost to Italy who are currently worse that'd be bad.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 12:26 pm

Aye the frustrating thing for me numbers is Scotland have returned to the groundhog day nearly but not there team of 2013-14. It looked for a while like our psychological issues were getting better under VC, and at the peak at the end of his tenure, beginning of Toonies, where we just took anyone on and really gave them a game or beat them. Now we look like we're back to being sorry for even trying to make the top 5 teams and the players yes have looked better this tournament but it looks more like they're looking for damage control than actual belief that if they dig in they can win like it was 3 years ago.
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