Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND V SCOTLAND

1st of February 2020 16:45 Kick off

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Ireland: 15 Jordan Larmour, 14 Andrew Conway, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Jonathan Sexton (c), 9 Conor Murray, 8 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 CJ Stander, 5 James Ryan, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Rob Herring, 1 Cian Healy
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Devin Toner, 20 Peter O’Mahony, 21 John Cooney, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Robbie Henshaw

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg (c), 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Blair Kinghorn, 10 Adam Hastings, 9 Ali Price, 8 Nick Haining, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Fraser Brown, 1 Rory Sutherland
Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Simon Berghan, 19 Ben Toolis, 20 Cornell du Preez, 21 George Horne, 22 Rory Hutchinson, 23 Chris Harris

Perennial World Cup Quarter Finalists vs A Team With No Clear Strategy That Doesn't Currently Play To It's Strengths, Please Come Back Vern

Historical head to head data is useless as Scotland won for the 1st hundred years but Ireland have been dead good since the year 2000, except in 2010 at Croke Park which tells you Dan Parks is the finest rugby player Scotland has ever poached from Australia.

New head coach for Ireland in Farrell vs Townsend with new back room staff

Captain Sexton vs Captain Hogg - Eurgh, there's going to be so much moaning at the ref.

I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy amount of abuse in the thread below, please enjoy.


Last edited by Tramptastic on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 11:40 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm

Was Ireland the better team? or Was Scotland so poor it made Ireland look better than they actually was. How many times did Scotland lose the chance and get turned over on Ireland try line? I personally lost count. Although it was not like the Wales v Italy game where Italy did not score any points at all.

I guess next week's games will tell us more about each team that as played so far.
See if the skill levels improve for each team.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 8:04 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Was Ireland the better team? or Was Scotland so poor it made Ireland look better than they actually was.

The second bit.

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Post by Cyril on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 8:13 pm

Farrell has managed to make Ireland even more dour than Schmidt, if that is possible.

Not a good advert for NH rugby. With the Italy thrashing earlier (why are they still in this competition?) we need to hope that tomorrow is better.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 8:18 pm

I think Ireland’s starting to suffer from its tighter overseas player restrictions. Despite having a few good players they’re very reliant on key players... Sexton for one surely won’t be around for 2023 at the age of 57 or whatever he’ll be. And there are very good alternatives. Here he would have been let go by now. Post World Cup, particularly that effort, should have signalled clean out time, and time for a new coach, new key players, new vision. Yet today we got what was there 12 months ago. Under a heavily defensively skilled head coach the concern would be the attack options. And that showed.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 8:57 pm

Taylorman wrote:I think Ireland’s starting to suffer from its tighter overseas player restrictions. Despite having a few good players they’re very reliant on key players... Sexton for one surely won’t be around for 2023 at the age of 57 or whatever he’ll be. And there are very good alternatives. Here he would have been let go by now. Post World Cup, particularly that effort, should have signalled clean out time, and time for a new coach, new key players, new vision. Yet today we got what was there 12 months ago. Under a heavily defensively skilled head coach the concern would be the attack options. And that showed.

How does that illustrate that Ireland is suffering from overseas player restrictions? What restrictions are you referring to?
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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 9:18 pm

Ireland and Scotland aren't top teams - they just don't have the numbers. Schmidt had Ireland punching above their weight and the team scaled new heights, but then Joe was a once in a generation coach. The difference in standard between these teams isn't big so there is a history of close results.

The match was a good one, not because it had a basketball score, but because it tested players' mettle. That's why the Six Nations is the epitome of TEST rugby. Players make mistakes they otherwise would never dream of because they face pressure rarely encountered. The number of injuries and mistakes showed just how much pressure was exerted - when has Healy ever been replaced by Kilcoyne to replace him again and then to be replaced by Porter? This wasn't a 'we'll score more than you and forget defence' points fest but a full-blooded career threatening head to head (literally).

There's a saying in Ireland that 'it takes an old dog for a hard road' and this game proved it... almost. The road is always hard for countries with small playing squads and Ireland can't be too quick to ditch the old dogs because there aren't enough replacements around. Sexton did look rusty though and Murray has never looked completely right since his injury. Scotland had to make far more changes either through choice or circumstance and that factor was the determining one on the result. Scotland and Ireland may still surprise some teams who fancy themselves strong on paper.

I was disappointed with Scotland and Hogg in particular. Do they really need to be shouting at the referee: 'Holding on, Hands in, Offside, Use it' etc? When Hogg scored his 'drop-try' he celebrated like a mad man trying to usher everyone back to halfway, and only when the referee gave the dreaded rectangle sign did his face fall and his teeth clamp. He had obviously hoped that he could act his way to a score, as if the TMO wouldn't have noticed it anyway? A bad call on his part and one that might see his days as Captain numbered.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 9:53 pm

Can't fault Hogg too much.  He wears his heart on his sleeve and if a game requires it, he'll certainly try to win an Oscar or two.

On the 'old dog' allusion - my opinion is that the older dogs are showing the wear and tear of too many hard roads.  
I just don't really think anymore that Healy, POM, Sexton, Murray, Toner, Earls and a few others are going to be turning back the clock in the next few months or years.  So really, what's the point in delaying a more ruthless culling of the old guard simply to keep close results dripping in in the present.  The future won't have these players.  They are delaying the natural process of renewal.
It's a young man's faster, cuter game and I think Farrell's hand will be forced.  He'll be compelled to 'retire' some of these guys because results won't be getting easier, the creaking bones won't be repairing faster, the hunger won't be getting sharper.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 9:58 pm

PS.... by the end of this 6N Farrell by default caused by injury (we pick up so many) might actually have stumbled on his genuine future.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:04 pm

Said elsewhere in regard to France, theyve maybe sacrificed the short term and some egos to embark on an ambitious 4 year project. Farrell seems to have gone the other way with picking for the short term.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:21 pm

Yes, exactly what Cheika did. Kept the oldies on even though they largely failed to perform. Sexton and Murray may still be the better options, but they are certainly not the future and both were dismal at the main event. That’s when the light should go on.

Early days but by that effort what has Farrell done to make this team his team? Different coach means expect something different. Look at when Jones took over from Bomber. Unrecognisable in many ways. Sure Farrell was there under Schmidt but if Schmidt’s strength was in providing a platform for Ireland to believe in themselves, then without that Farrell has a huge hill to climb in terms of creating a point of difference.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:23 pm

SecretFly wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Was Ireland the better team? or Was Scotland so poor it made Ireland look better than they actually was.

The second bit.

Scotland were spectacular at shooting themselves in the foot. Work hard to break down the very organised Irish defence and then knock on under minimal pressure or drop the ball over the try line. At the end they looked like they finally had it together and the ref gave Ireland a let off with CJ Stander's turnover, reffed consistently with the rest of the game it's a penalty against Ryan for not rolling away. Ref then let the Irish prop stand up at the final scrum when going backwards. Too little too late though from Scotland they need a lot more composure.

As a neutral that's only seen the Irish sides in Europe and the players at the world cup. How is Cooney not starting? He was good off the bench today and has been electric for Ulster. Is there not a better alternative to Aki, I'm not really sure what he offers to the backline.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:23 pm

For all you Irish Fans. will Jonny Sexton be in the team/squad.captain for the summer tours? Personally i don't think he will unless Ireland win the 6ns. Either Grand Slam or just over all winners.

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Post by 123456789. on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:30 pm

Thoroughly enjoyed that game today, was an excellent throwback to the Robinson-Hadden days. Or in fact the pre-Russell era. Which was weird because I thought Hastings was quite good. Lots of possession and no cutting edge, if we find one we could make a splash on the tournament, if we don't it'll be fifth placed at best.

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Post by Cyril on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:36 pm

Completely agree with those criticising Hogg. He really is a poor choice for captain and has no respect for rugby’s sporting code. You would hope that Exeter would have improved his attitude but he’s still the same character. Scotland in general, under his captaincy, were screaming at the ref, SOB or Biggar style. Ugly.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:42 pm

SecretFly wrote:Can't fault Hogg too much.  He wears his heart on his sleeve and if a game requires it, he'll certainly try to win an Oscar or two.

Absolute guff, despite knowing you’re trying to be funny again. When so many people (including Scottish fans) want to get holier than thou over Biggar appealing things, but at least he had the class to admit when he didn’t score a try in a different game. Cheating is cheating and Hogg tried to cheat. I couldn’t have him as my captain.

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Post by RDW on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 10:48 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Can't fault Hogg too much.  He wears his heart on his sleeve and if a game requires it, he'll certainly try to win an Oscar or two.

Absolute guff, despite knowing you’re trying to be funny again. When so many people (including Scottish fans) want to get holier than thou over Biggar appealing things, but at least he had the class to admit when he didn’t score a try in a different game. Cheating is cheating and Hogg tried to cheat. I couldn’t have him as my captain.

Worth noting Sexton lying on the ground holding his face then miraculously getting up apparently fine to complain to the ref...

Hogg's behaviour was embarrassing, but every team has an equivalent!


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Post by Duty281 on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 11:04 pm

‘Hogg tried to cheat’ - so does nearly every rugby player.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 11:59 pm

Scotland may become a half decent side when they can learn how to hang onto their own ball.
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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:16 am

Cyril wrote:Two pretty average sides on display here. Those Japan defeats were no fluke.

I have to agree unfortunately. Ireland look like they might struggle under the new law interpretations. They don't suit anything other than slow tempo rugby and if they can't slow it down I can't see them winning against England, Wales and the rest.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:29 am

RiscaGame wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Can't fault Hogg too much.  He wears his heart on his sleeve and if a game requires it, he'll certainly try to win an Oscar or two.

Absolute guff, despite knowing you’re trying to be funny again. When so many people (including Scottish fans) want to get holier than thou over Biggar appealing things, but at least he had the class to admit when he didn’t score a try in a different game. Cheating is cheating and Hogg tried to cheat. I couldn’t have him as my captain.

Relax Risca.  Not everything is about Wales.  
It was nice of Biggar but Hogg certainly isn't unique in either playacting, cheating or letting the ref/TMO decide whether his score was genuine or not, hoping some trick camera anomaly might give it to him without him owning up.  
Just look at the number of players who gesticulate at the ref, claiming a ball was held up when they know their eyes saw it hit the dirt - or the vice versa of players claiming they saw a grounding when they know they didn't.   It's all acting and attempting to influence the ref.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:43 am

guestalt_physicality wrote:
Cyril wrote:Two pretty average sides on display here. Those Japan defeats were no fluke.

I have to agree unfortunately. Ireland look like they might struggle under the new law interpretations. They don't suit anything other than slow tempo rugby and if they can't slow it down I can't see them winning against England, Wales and the rest.

They can play rugby as good as any other collection of players in Europe and have proven it over the years - including high tempo.  What is not happening - so far - is the correct coaching (at International) to bring the higher tempo blueprint to the forefront.  It'll come - eventually - because in order to survive at the highest levels, it's required.  
Ireland was a pretty consistent 2nd or 3rd using the slow model and perhaps that's why they are slower  Wink adapting to the higher tempo.  They will adapt though, but Farrell and coaching crew better fast tempo their slack coaching to speed up the process! And that's more than enough fast/slow allusions for tonight.

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Post by bsando on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 5:16 am

Cyril wrote:Completely agree with those criticising Hogg. He really is a poor choice for captain and has no respect for rugby’s sporting code. You would hope that Exeter would have improved his attitude but he’s still the same character. Scotland in general, under his captaincy, were screaming at the ref, SOB or Biggar style. Ugly.

Actually, the few chats I heard from Hogg with the ref were excellent I thought. He apologised to the ref when he argued Watson’s case for holding onto an Irish player where perhaps Laidlaw would have been sulkier. He maintained a good dialogue with the ref all game.

To be fair to Hogg and Scotland, they have been the nice guys for too long. Every year in the 6N other sides hammer in the refs ear while Scotland have been quite passive. Yesterday Scotland had bite and edge, part of that came from hounding the ref at the breakdown just as other sides do. If you can’t beat them, join them as they say.

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Post by bsando on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 5:22 am

123456789. wrote:Thoroughly enjoyed that game today, was an excellent throwback to the Robinson-Hadden days. Or in fact the pre-Russell era. Which was weird because I thought Hastings was quite good. Lots of possession and no cutting edge, if we find one we could make a splash on the tournament, if we don't it'll be fifth placed at best.

God that’s how I felt with Scotland’s attack yesterday. White line fever has returned! I was just waiting for that turnover when Scotland battered Ireland’s defence 1m out from the line. Under VC you always expected the try to materialise. Scotland need to vary the attack in the 22, if they do the same against Wales and England they’ll come off second best every time.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 6:39 am

Last time we had whiteline fever this badly toonie was our attack coach... just putting that out there again!
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 7:35 am

Hoggs little moment was just that, got carried away a little. It appeared he was apologising to his team mates fairly promptly. Just one of those things. Agree with the white line fever comments. For a while Scotland have tried to bamboozle with fast plays without really having the finishing abilities. Today’s defences are just too good for that and if it’s going to have effect the individuals have got to have more skills, and power. They need three or four of hoggs quality and pace, not one. The will, a fair skill set level is there but the talent just isn’t. To play that style of game you need to have worlds best ball carriers and without them the effort just looks like boys vs men. Townsend was that sort of player himself from memory so it’s understandable but if they want that style they need to develop it across the lower levels more.

It’s great they’re doing it, it’s just frustrating to watch effort after effort get consumed by the defence when the space finally shuts down. They find the initial gaps easily enough, they just don’t have that power and momentum that’s needed to maximise the space they’ve already exposed.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 9:51 am

First up; clap well done Ireland. Grinding out a win that could have gone either way. Thanks to the Irish posters here for some good natured, humorous and occasionally insightful comments.clap clap

Not sure how either side will do over the whole tournament: was it two evenly matched, mediocre teams struggling not to lose? Or was it a real TEST between two decent sides? We'll know more in four matches time.

FWIW I really enjoyed the match, I turned the Wales-Italy game off at 33-0 but was glued to the goggle box during this one. What more, other than Scotland winning, can you ask?

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 10:32 am

Well said Jim, there was palpable tension and that emotion is part of the entertainment that was totally absent in the Welsh match and I found myself doing other things long before 33-0.
When I start grumbling to no-one in particular about the decisions against Ireland, I know the emotional box is being ticked. Maybe the emotion is only in evidence with skin in the game, but there is a lot more to entertainment than a one dimensional try junket.

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Post by Engine#4 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 11:26 am

Ireland were largely disappointing in attack bar the occasional break in the outside channels. One positive though was the creative spark to score the try rather than just bash away all day.

Scotland outplayed Ireland in many facets and should have at least drawn the game.

Murray must be putting in some godlike displays in training to still be starting. At least he wasn't dawdling at the back of the ruck but his passing was poor and in some cases a danger to his teammates well-being. Gave away a few thick penalties too. Stander was great.

Good hard match though. Lots of mistakes, penalties and stoppages didn't make for a pretty spectacle but I enjoyed it. Must have been pretty bad for the neutral if Taylor thought it was that dour from the 3min highlights package he watched 😁

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:30 pm

Just on Andy Farrell - on the evidence of his demeanour up in his coaches box, he has certainly become more emotionally involved now that full responsibility sits on his shoulders!
Good to see though.
The performance looked a bit of a train wreck of confusion most of the time - much to the credit of the pesky Scots who pretty much proved to be the nightmare unrelenting menace Townsend promised.

But even so, there were some healthy signs emerging a little bit through the second half for Ireland when I felt Irish players were beginning to chat to each other and come up with onfield decisions and solutions.  That essential part of any team seemed to be something glaringly missing in the Irish set up under Joe.  They were kinda more like emotionless machines in his tenure.  Now some onfield problem solving might do these guys a world of good and increase that bonding necessary to gel - or treacle if you wish - a team.

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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:40 pm

I think Ireland fans need a bit of patience - although it's a new coach, he was on the previous regime and pretty much using the same players. You're not going to see them become the Harlem Globetrotters over night!

You didn't play well yesterday but beat a Scotland team who were well up for it - winning matters (just ask Scotland).

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Post by bsando on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:45 pm

Yeah I’m many ways it was a good first test for Ireland and Farrell, far better than Italy at home first up. They’ll be in good shape for next weeks game (the non injured players that is, it was a really physical encounter).

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Post by BigGee on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:56 pm

Ireland do look like they took a few causulties though, that might count against them for the next round at least. I would be surprised if either of the consussed players makes it back and not sure if Furlong was injured or just knackered?

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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 1:07 pm

BigGee wrote:Ireland do look like they took a few causulties though, that might count against them for the next round at least. I would be surprised if either of the consussed players makes it back and not sure if Furlong was injured or just knackered?

Tight calfs apparently.

Happened due to having his arse handed to him by Sutherland! Very Happy

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 1:24 pm

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:Ireland do look like they took a few causulties though, that might count against them for the next round at least. I would be surprised if either of the consussed players makes it back and not sure if Furlong was injured or just knackered?

Tight calfs apparently.

Happened due to having his arse handed to him by Sutherland! Very Happy

Calfs? Them's bullocks he's got strapped to his legs.

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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 2:16 pm

Just saw the highlights on BBC's coverage today - reminded just how bad the ref was for both teams. Awful refereeing display!

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:20 am

That ref has no place umpiring at international level but at least he made sure to ref badly for both sides.
Speaking of those two sides, Scotland definitely raised the anti a good bit and look every bit like they'll take a decent scalp this year. Which one though? Ireland were lucky to get away with a rather undeserved win. It was a dull as dishwater display interspersed with the odd little bit of magic, magic that we'll need an awful lot more of if we're to remain in the top 3. At the moment I don't see us besting either England, France or Wales based purely on Saturday's outing. I know this side will get a whole lot better and we'll have at least one big game where we get to see a good bit more of the old magic being unshackled but please make it soon, I can't take any more turgidity.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:32 am

Pete330v2 wrote:That ref has no place umpiring at international level but at least he made sure to ref badly for both sides.
Speaking of those two sides, Scotland definitely raised the anti a good bit and look every bit like they'll take a decent scalp this year. Which one though? Ireland were lucky to get away with a rather undeserved win. It was a dull as dishwater display interspersed with the odd little bit of magic, magic that we'll need an awful lot more of if we're to remain in the top 3. At the moment I don't see us besting either England, France or Wales based purely on Saturday's outing. I know this side will get a whole lot better and we'll have at least one big game where we get to see a good bit more of the old magic being unshackled but please make it soon, I can't take any more turgidity.

Would love to agree with you on that, but we do the same every year.  We get up for the first game (still lose), and look like a team who could do something in the 6 nations, and then we fall away, as the confidence just drops after giving our all but still coming up short.  Or we get an injury to a key player for whom we have no real backup (looking at you Hastings).

It's a story as old as time.

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Post by rodders on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:42 am

Well after all the buzz about what Farrell would bring to Ireland, what so many in the media and fans have lost sight of is what Schmidt brought - Consistency, clarity, set piece, work rate, structure, discipline, low error and penalty count - it wasn't always exciting and there was the occasional blip but if Saturday is a glimpse into the Farrell era then we are in big trouble.

Without disrespecting Scotland, who on paper are better than there recent results - for Ireland to scrape a win at home against a side we demolished up front a few months ago is extremely worrying - that Farrell and some of the players were happy about it is worse.

Arguably that is our easiest fixture this year, at home with Scotland minus Finn Russell and we needed heroic scrambling defense as well as howler from Hogg to get a win.  

Individually Stander, O'Mahoney, Henderson, VDF had great games - Herring did well and the try was well worked but all in that was very poor. The back 3 looked lost without Kearney and Murray surely needs to be dropped now for Cooney and McGrath. Healy had his worst game in years.

Fair play to Scotland, they played the better rugby and fronted up physically. Hopefully they can get a win next week.

For us I am really fearful now because Wales will batter us if we play like that again next week, never mind what France and England will do.

With the injuries I'm not sure Farrell can change a lot - I'd start Cooney at 9, presumably O'Mahoney and Jack McGrath will come in for Doris and Kilcoyne, Henshaw to 13.  Addison or Earls on to the bench.
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Post by RDW on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:46 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:That ref has no place umpiring at international level but at least he made sure to ref badly for both sides.
Speaking of those two sides, Scotland definitely raised the anti a good bit and look every bit like they'll take a decent scalp this year. Which one though? Ireland were lucky to get away with a rather undeserved win. It was a dull as dishwater display interspersed with the odd little bit of magic, magic that we'll need an awful lot more of if we're to remain in the top 3. At the moment I don't see us besting either England, France or Wales based purely on Saturday's outing. I know this side will get a whole lot better and we'll have at least one big game where we get to see a good bit more of the old magic being unshackled but please make it soon, I can't take any more turgidity.

Would love to agree with you on that, but we do the same every year.  We get up for the first game (still lose), and look like a team who could do something in the 6 nations, and then we fall away, as the confidence just drops after giving our all but still coming up short.  Or we get an injury to a key player for whom we have no real backup (looking at you Hastings).

It's a story as old as time.
I can see what you're saying, but regarding physicality and aggression that was definitely a big step up from what we've seen in recent years. To me that was far more than us just being 'up' for the game. It was the first time we've met Ireland head on head in terms of physicality and I actually think we came out on top in that aspect. The first half in particular we had some huge carries and individual hits.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:49 am

As long as we keep it up, and it's not a flash in the pan, which we have seen previously

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Post by profitius on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:57 am

I'd say Scotland were good rather than ireland bad. The picture will become clearer as the season goes on. Scotland and France's performances suggests there might be a few more twists than was expected.
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Post by rodders on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:04 am

RDW wrote:
I can see what you're saying, but regarding physicality and aggression that was definitely a big step up from what we've seen in recent years. To me that was far more than us just being 'up' for the game. It was the first time we've met Ireland head on head in terms of physicality and I actually think we came out on top in that aspect. The first half in particular we had some huge carries and individual hits.

I agree, Scotland were particularly good in the set piece - they were on top in the scrum and did a great job at sacking our maul. I thought the collisions were probably more 50:50, with both sides having periods of success but in contrast to recent games were Ireland have been able to essentially suffocate Scotland this weekend we weren't able to do that.

Part of that was Ireland's tactical stupidity, trying to play too much in our half but clearly Scotland have improved as well and bullied us at times.
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Post by RDW on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:10 am

rodders wrote:
RDW wrote:
I can see what you're saying, but regarding physicality and aggression that was definitely a big step up from what we've seen in recent years. To me that was far more than us just being 'up' for the game. It was the first time we've met Ireland head on head in terms of physicality and I actually think we came out on top in that aspect. The first half in particular we had some huge carries and individual hits.

I agree, Scotland were particularly good in the set piece - they were on top in the scrum and did a great job at sacking our maul. I thought the collisions were probably more 50:50, with both sides having periods of success but in contrast to recent games were Ireland have been able to essentially suffocate Scotland this weekend we weren't able to do that.

Part of that was Ireland's tactical stupidity, trying to play too much in our half but clearly Scotland have improved as well and bullied us at times.
Except the lineout, where we must have lost 4 or 5 on our throw.

Combine those with the 4 stupid penalties and that's a lot of possession easily turned over.

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Post by rodders on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:23 am

RDW wrote:
rodders wrote:
RDW wrote:
I can see what you're saying, but regarding physicality and aggression that was definitely a big step up from what we've seen in recent years. To me that was far more than us just being 'up' for the game. It was the first time we've met Ireland head on head in terms of physicality and I actually think we came out on top in that aspect. The first half in particular we had some huge carries and individual hits.

I agree, Scotland were particularly good in the set piece - they were on top in the scrum and did a great job at sacking our maul. I thought the collisions were probably more 50:50, with both sides having periods of success but in contrast to recent games were Ireland have been able to essentially suffocate Scotland this weekend we weren't able to do that.

Part of that was Ireland's tactical stupidity, trying to play too much in our half but clearly Scotland have improved as well and bullied us at times.
Except the lineout, where we must have lost 4 or 5 on our throw.

Combine those with the 4 stupid penalties and that's a lot of possession easily turned over.

Yes that is true and one area Ireland did well with Henderson and POM particularly causing a problems on Scotland's throw. Next weeks games will tell more where both sides are at.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:54 am

Disapointing Irish performance but its to be expected. Schmidt's Ireland were hammered by Australia in their first game. Cant expect miracles from Farrell right away but at the same time I think some people may ultimately appreciate Schmidt more in retrospect.

I was most disapointed by Doris' injury because the starting backrow was for the the best we have now and could be great. Swap VdF for Leavy and it could be special in time.

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Post by rodders on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:05 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Disapointing Irish performance but its to be expected. Schmidt's Ireland were hammered by Australia in their first game. Cant expect miracles from Farrell right away but at the same time I think some people may ultimately appreciate Schmidt more in retrospect.

I was most disapointed by Doris' injury because the starting backrow was for the the best we have now and could be great. Swap VdF for Leavy and it could be special in time.

I hope so, I think there has been a pretty skewed narrative being pushed since last season, So much of the good aspect of what Schmidt brought have been airbrushed out and perceived negatives have been really exaggerated.

If the more relaxed environment created by Farrell and Catt means the players just roll up on Saturday with no game plan and get shunted around in the scrum and throw the ball around aimlessly then we can't get Joe back quick enough.

The biggest worry for me is that Farrell seemed pleased with he performance. I think he deserves time but really that was as poor a start we could have without losing.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:18 am

Rarely under Joe would we concede so many penalties, hopefully we dont become an indiciplined side.

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:47 am

Well, a win is a win as they say but that was not anything special from Ireland.

Gutted for Doris, hope he is ok and is not out for too long. That said, CJ and POM linked up very well again after he went off.

Murray, well it is time now to give Cooney a start. Cooney was far quicker with his distribution and I cant help but feel had he started then Irelands speed at the start with him at 9 may have produced a little more than with Murray. I was very concerned that he was going to be pinged for taking too long after the referee had told him to play the ball. He got a lot of leniency there I feel.

Larmour, I felt, had a very good game at 15 and it was very good to see him back himself in contact.


The 12/13 has to be Henshaw/Ringrose (if Ringrose is fit) as Aki was again too 1 dimensional (he had a solid game I will add but not too much like a forward than a 12).


Wales will be a very tough test for Ireland now but I did like certain things I saw with Ireland and am happy to get behind Farrell.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:52 am

Agree on Murray, shame but he hasnt been able to return to anywhere near his best.

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Post by RDW on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:56 am

Could Sexton play with Cooney?

He's very different from the type of 9 he usually plays with!

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