ENGLAND v WALES - Match Thread / Build up - 7/3/2020

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 4:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

England  rose  v Wales  Wales  - 07/03/2020 - 16:45pm - the HOME of Rugby.

England XV

Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Wilson, Curry

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewels, Earl, Heinz, Slade


Wales XV

Halfpenny; North, Tompkins, Parkes, Williams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, Owens, D Lewis, Ball, AW Jones (capt), Moriarty, Navidi, Tipuric.

Replacements: Elias, Carre, L Brown, Shingler, Faletau, Webb, J Evans, McNicholl.



Overall - Played 134 - Eng 63 - Wales 59 - Drawn 12


Last edited by TightHEAD on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 1:18 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 2:43 pm

Look for Earls latest try - an intercept...jeez he was going at some speed!!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 2:43 pm

Moriarty isnt in the same league as curry. Excellent tackler but little more. May deal fairly easily with lawes running at him though.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 2:48 pm

Moriarty is a walking Yellow card. Not in the same league as a biryani let alone a proper Curry.
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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 2:59 pm

lostinwales wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote: ...
I don't know too much about Earl. How do England fans rate him?


From what I have seen hes a bit like Sam Simmonds. Not the biggest but powerful, very quick and aggressive. He hasn't spent much time on the pitch for England yet but hasn't looked out of place at all.

Thanks. Looks like England have 3 readymade replacements for the forwards: one big and weighty for Kruis, one who can fill in at lock or back row and just be tidy, and then one more dynamic player to test the tired defenders.

Could leave Wales needing some individual brilliance from a Faletau or Liam Williams.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 3:06 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Moriarty is a walking Yellow card. Not in the same league as a biryani let alone a proper Curry.


Laugh
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Post by lostinwales on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 3:23 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote: ...
I don't know too much about Earl. How do England fans rate him?


From what I have seen hes a bit like Sam Simmonds. Not the biggest but powerful, very quick and aggressive. He hasn't spent much time on the pitch for England yet but hasn't looked out of place at all.

Thanks. Looks like England have 3 readymade replacements for the forwards: one big and weighty for Kruis, one who can fill in at lock or back row and just be tidy, and then one more dynamic player to test the tired defenders.

Could leave Wales needing some individual brilliance from a Faletau or Liam Williams.

Liam Williams is always the biggest danger as far as I am concerned.

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Post by Cumbrian on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 3:38 pm

Me too, I think he is a fantastic player. If we were doing the 'pick one player from the opposition' game, it would be him everyday of the week.
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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 3:43 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Me too, I think he is a fantastic player. If we were doing the 'pick one player from the opposition' game, it would be him everyday of the week.

Sounds like fantasy rugby or just rugby for Sarries fans!

But yes I agree. Cracking player.
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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 4:11 pm

Faletau struggling a little with a knock, from playing for Bath. Will Rowlands injured, from playing for Wasps. I guess if Biggar wasn't so key, Pivac would maybe make a statement there too and show that he would rather have people who can train fully.

Not convinced by the back three for us. Backrow strong. I didn't notice that Rhys Webb was on the bench, at first.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 4:19 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Look for Earls latest try - an intercept...jeez he was going at some speed!!

That's his point of difference compared to Curry, Underhill and Ludlam for sure. He has real pace in the loose. The latter 3 aren't slow either as shown by their impressive kick chase.

England have other flankers with Earl's pace like Clifford and Simmonds but neither are as physical in defence as Earl. I really rate him and for all the hullabaloo over Dombrandt being left out I actually think Earl is the much more rounded player. I think he carries well enough to wear 8 in the right pack as well. England's front row options are loaded with big carriers now.

He also ticks the Jones and Mitchell box of bouncing back onto his feet and into the defensive line in no time at all after making a tackle. It's what this England defensive system relies on as their territory game means making a huge volume of tackles and relentless line speed.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 4:38 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Me too, I think he is a fantastic player. If we were doing the 'pick one player from the opposition' game, it would be him everyday of the week.

Watson vs Williams will be interesting given neither have much rugby under their belt but are both Lions. Watson is a huge loss for England when absent. He adds balance to the back three.

The starting Lions back three from all 3 2017 tests is on show with positional changes. Daly at fullback and Williams on the wing. Plus Halfpenny, North and May. A lot of talent there.

I'd hope England will get an upper hand in the tight given their stronger props. Particularly on the bench with Cowan-Dicke and Genge excellent in their appearances this tournament. Dillon Lewis has struggled in the scrum, I think that England's depth at loosehead in Marler and Genge will tell at set-piece.

The starting second rows all have strengths and very different roles in each sides game plan. If England's pack do get an upper hand then having a full tight 5 on the bench to bring on fresh could become a key weapon in the second half as the starters on both sides tire.

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Post by Pie on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 5:11 pm

Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 5:27 pm

Lawes will wrap him in cotton wool, hopefully so much he will struggle to move, Saints need him back whole.

I do not understand the thought behind the selection is for dry weather with a light to moderate wind. I would have thought that in those circumstances we want a more mobile pack, assuming Underhill has a niggle, Ludlam would have been my first thought at 7 and Wilson at 6 if common sense is not going to prevail and play him at 8. Lawes or Kruis on the bench and Ewels out. Both Lawes and Itoje can cover back row if they need to change any of them.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 6:27 pm

Pie wrote:Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

If Biggar spends too much time reffing the game the ref might not be too unhappy to see the back of him.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 8:50 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Pie wrote:Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

If Biggar spends too much time reffing the game the ref might not be too unhappy to see the back of him.

It's an issue that Farrell, Biggar, Sexton and Russell all suffer from. Half-backs being allowed to 'chat' to refs even more than captains has steadily slipped into the game over the last few years. I know that Faz and Sexton are skippers now but they were both whingeing long before that.

It seemed to slip into the game around the same time as every scrum penalty being followed by a minute stop in play for every member of the backline to pat their front rows on the head.

Whatever happened to winning a penalty is the best time to force the tempo. Be that tap and go or kicking to touch. When on the field the last thing you want is to give away a penalty then instantly be thrown into defending.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 8:53 pm

I guess its tough on players not having access to the internet to be able to bitch about refs all day on during matches

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 8:58 pm

Gooseberry wrote:I guess its tough on players not having access to the internet to be able to bitch about refs all day on during matches


Give it time. When the 6N moves to Sky we’ll soon have live player Twitter feeds from the game and player mics galore!
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:20 pm

The Oracle wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I guess its tough on players not having access to the internet to be able to bitch about refs all day on during matches


Give it time.  When the 6N moves to Sky we’ll soon have live player Twitter feeds from the game and player mics galore!

Since when do Sky make any effort towards rugby? Get ready for very general analysis to the point where most under 9s could do it and a post game debrief that's as long as the advert breaks either side of it. Sadly you can imagine JD fitting right in with Greenwood and Barnes...

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:26 pm

Pie wrote:Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

If I was Eddie I'd be making sure that someone sticks either a big tackle or a big carry on Biggar inside the first few minutes. Hyperextension of the knee can be really sore so a good clattering should tell us just how sore he's feeling. Worth risking a penalty for a border line late hit as well, obviously these days you've got to keep the tackle legit.

If Lewis has been struggling in the scrum for Wales then the Welsh coaching staff will have to be vigilant because Genge has been explosive when he comes on and he's tended to make a statement particularly in his first scrum. Marler does a good job of tenderising the tighthead beforehand as well.

I have no idea why Ewels is in the England side. The rest I can just about understand. Still not a fan of the three locks policy but I suppose the argument for Eddie is that Lawes is in form, Itoje is arguably one of the best locks in the world and the lineout doesn't work without Kruis. We could have Launchbury and a couple of backrow on the bench though. Dombrandt or Simmons for an all action 15-20 minutes late one would be preferable to Ewels.

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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 10:04 pm

Dillon Lewis isn't a good scrummager but I think we're forgetting how Wales took apart the French scrum over and over last game even if they didn't get the right rewards for it. England are always good for a penalty or two at the scrum even with their superior size and weight.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 7:00 am

Unfortunately they dont tell us which stats are the match defining ones.

Six Nations: The stats superbrains fine-tuning England's tactics - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51745646

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 7:24 am

Does this mean the next Season of Scotland will get cancelled ?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 8:06 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Pie wrote:Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

If I was Eddie I'd be making sure that someone sticks either a big tackle or a big carry on Biggar inside the first few minutes. Hyperextension of the knee can be really sore so a good clattering should tell us just how sore he's feeling. Worth risking a penalty for a border line late hit as well, obviously these days you've got to keep the tackle legit.

If Lewis has been struggling in the scrum for Wales then the Welsh coaching staff will have to be vigilant because Genge has been explosive when he comes on and he's tended to make a statement particularly in his first scrum. Marler does a good job of tenderising the tighthead beforehand as well.

I have no idea why Ewels is in the England side. The rest I can just about understand. Still not a fan of the three locks policy but I suppose the argument for Eddie is that Lawes is in form, Itoje is arguably one of the best locks in the world and the lineout doesn't work without Kruis. We could have Launchbury and a couple of backrow on the bench though. Dombrandt or Simmons for an all action 15-20 minutes late one would be preferable to Ewels.

Is that not a somewhat outdated view? I'd argue that it's the scrum that doesn't work without Kruis.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 9:16 am

guestalt_physicality wrote:England are always good for a penalty or two at the scrum even with their superior size and weight.


That is more to do with the Ref not having a scooby Doo at Scrum time. ENGLAND v WALES - Match Thread / Build up - 7/3/2020 - Page 6 3933776953
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Post by Comfort on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 9:26 am

Very happy to see Navidi and Liam Williams straight back in - they probably won't last the 80 but they're 2 of our best by a mile, gutted Rowlands took a knock and Shingler has ended up as our lock cover.

Actually think Wales front row ending the game is better than the starting one with Carre and Brown potentially being the long term future for us.

Personally, I wouldn't have started north (head knocks aside his form is shocking) but can understand the need for some physical impetus in the back 3, with McNicholl there with Halfpenny n Williams we'd be lacking strike runners in the backline realistically.

With Biggar and Halfpenny at 10/15 I don't think we have the creativity or attacking flair to really test England at all - considering our pack looks built for mobility not physicality, we may struggle to break them down at all, even over numerous phases.

Still, I'm more optimistic seeing the team than I was this time last week - should be an interesting game (or a hammering where England dominate us upfront and we drop simple passes and kick badly... again).

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 10:15 am

Pie wrote:Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

You always target the FH, even at very low levels of the game.

But Lawes is going to get him. Hard too.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 10:40 am

I do like dipping my toe into the oppositions media in the week building up to a match. Mike Phillips really has a reduced level of self awareness!

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 10:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do like dipping my toe into the oppositions media in the week building up to a match. Mike Phillips really has a reduced level of self awareness!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/mike-phillips-column-twickenham-crowd-17865848

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Post by Comfort on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:16 am

A Mike Philips column on Wales Online - high class journalism at its finest no doubt...

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:24 am

Comfort wrote:A Mike Philips column on Wales Online - high class journalism at its finest no doubt...

Probably of the standard of a Clive Woodward column in the Daily Heil

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:24 am

Can't understand why Wales are acting like underdogs for their visit to HQ, they are defending Grand Slam Champions. Wales

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:50 am

The Oracle wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I guess its tough on players not having access to the internet to be able to bitch about refs all day on during matches


Give it time.  When the 6N moves to Sky we’ll soon have live player Twitter feeds from the game and player mics galore!

..... and they'll even probably put the mics in the water bottles Laugh

......  Shocked  oh that's already been done before, now that I think about it.......  Whistle

Sorry, carry on folks.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 12:47 pm

lostinwales wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Perhaps misjudget attempt at humour


What the hell am I reading?!  Has Katie Hopkins taken over your account?  

Well it has been pretty quiet here compared to how it has been in the past, and given that last line I have a slight suspicion that he's not exactly being serious.

Agreed it looks like it was meant to be very much tongue in cheek - playing up to the very broad stereotypes of both the Welsh and Twickenham fans. The one thing missing was refere3nces to prawn sandwiches, Barbour jackets and Range Rovers.

As an aside is the pink stetson worse than the hordes of English former public schoolboys dressed up as Schoolgirls?

Lets face it - pretty easy to laugh at either side of the dyke.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 12:57 pm

I think Phillips is right in alluding to their huge inferiority complex though. It would certainly explain why they react so badly upon losing to Wales.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 1:00 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I think Phillips is right in alluding to their huge inferiority complex though. It would certainly explain why they react so badly upon losing to Wales.

They went to better schools, so there! thumbsup
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 2:04 pm

It's odd he holds the 99 victory so highly given the nature of it as we discovered afterwards.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 3:19 pm

Wales captain Wyn Jones says Dan Bigger is fit to play.

So what do we think, is this another Anscombe situation?
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 3:35 pm

Have fun everyone and play nice. I am out of here until Sunday evening.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 3:37 pm

Hug
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Post by rozakthegoon on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 3:38 pm

Hi all, im missing the match tomorrow, and im going to do my best to stay offline and watch it without knowing the score, hopefully late sat eve if its on the itvplayer.

I know generally the bbc have the full match up on iplayer rally soon after its finished, but anyone got any idea how soon itv will put it up? I dont want to risk searching online for when its on post match, in case i see the score, and i cant see anything online saying when it will be shown

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 3:47 pm

I think its within an hour or two.
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Post by rozakthegoon on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 4:20 pm

TightHEAD wrote:I think its within an hour or two.

Cheers

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Post by Pie on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 5:25 pm

Im quietly confident, we have the better bench and if we stay in touch by 10 points with the last 30 then its on. Carre, Shingler, Webb, Faletau and Evans will bring it home.

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Post by Pie on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 5:26 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Wales captain Wyn Jones says Dan Bigger is fit to play.

So what do we think, is this another Anscombe situation?

You mean JD2. Anscombe destroyed his knee

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Post by Pie on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 5:27 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
Pie wrote:Ref better watch England targeting Biggar especially Lawes

You always target the FH, even at very low levels of the game.

But Lawes is going to get him. Hard too.

I expect Moriarty will do the same to Lawes

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 7:18 pm

Pie wrote:Im quietly confident, we have the better bench and if we stay in touch by 10 points with the last 30 then its on. Carre, Shingler, Webb, Faletau and Evans will bring it home.

An interesting and somewhat novel view

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 7:59 pm

It is a good bench though.

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Post by Sharkey06 on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:16 pm

It will be interesting to watch the Alun Wyn Jones v George Kruis battle. Last Saracens v Ospreys game Alun Wyn clearly targeted Kruis for some cheap shots to the extent that Jackson Wray had to go whining to the referee to stop Kruis getting a slapping. Hopefully some of the England forwards can step up and do a 'Martin Johnson' and put Alun Wyn Jones back in line.

Expect to see Tuilagi and May running down Biggar's channel early doors to test his knee.

England need to bully Wales if we are to win this game. Our backs right now seem to offer very little in attack other than our kick and chase game.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:33 pm

AWJ gets targeted every game, he usually has a few guys swarm all over him. He doesn’t help himself by running so upright. It kind of negates his presence on the field but he’s usually good everywhere else. I’m concerned about how we deal with Itoje tbh. We need to smash that guy when he starts spoiling everything, but so far in this tournament Wales haven’t been tough enough at the breakdown. It’s why some folk were demanding a recall for Shingler. At least we have Navidi, hopefully not too rusty.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 12:08 am

mikey_dragon wrote:It is a good bench though.

You got us on the scrum half, and Ewels isn't going to scare anyone, but our replacement front row should. Launchbury is a very handy player, Earls could be a real handful and Slade is just a classy player.

We can argue the merits of Faletau another time but I am not sure if he's going to add much off the bench.

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