The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

First topic message reminder :

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer. 

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland. 

Venues to be announced.

TJ wrote:On young talent breaking thru in wales - IMO there is not enough opportunity for them because the welsh have this thing about keeping their aging stars in wales thus clogging things up0

Scotland does not do this.  so the youngsters get a chance to play.  Russell going to France freed up a place for Hasting, Jonny Gray going south freed up a place for Scott Cummings etc etc  this means our promising youngsters get regular first team rugby and develop well as a result.  In wales they only get occasional chances

I think you might be getting us confused with Ireland? We don’t keep anyone for the sake of it, we’ll keep if they’re needed ie there’s no replacement ready to step in. Cardiff and to a lesser extent Dragons are good at bringing through young players, just not always in the positions we desperately need. We could do with some class front 5 forwards coming through but we don’t have many. Morgan Jones at Scarlets should be a good lock forward for the future though. Also it’s worth noting that our U20s team seems to be getting worse.

Costelow's not ready for men's rugby in my opinion. There's a good conveyorbelt of 10s at the Scarlets - Patchell who misses a lot of the season with Wales, Angus O'Brien, Dan Jones, and then Costelow. Presumably one of AOB or DJ will leave in the next 18 months to make way for Costelow but he's definitely not the answer for Wales at the moment. I think maybe Leceister's struggles/need for quality are skewing your view of him a tad. He's still very much an U20s player, not a full test player.

formerly known as Sam wrote:If Scarlets start backing him now then the Sam Costelow and Johnny Williams combo could work well for you. Appears Costelow was rated higher at Tigers than back home in Wales though.

Interesting combo it could be. Would he be better than Sheedy, Patchell, Evans, or Anscombe? That’s his competition. Patchell is injury prone so he will get his chance, and I rate him higher than Dan Jones and AOB.

Raynal is tonight's ref, shocking french official and allowed Ireland's cheating last time. So it could be 60 to Ireland on this occasion.

mikey_dragon wrote:Raynal is tonight's ref, shocking french official and allowed Ireland's cheating last time. So it could be 60 to Ireland on this occasion.

Is it not a bit early for a Welsh fan to be blaming the ref? Should you not at least wait until during the game Mikey, then let loose? Even better, and this may be pushing the boat out here, wait until after Wales lose

It is but Raynal is crud. A massive homer who generally looks pretty clueless out there. The worst of the French refs by some distance.

I doubt he'll be worse than Brace though. Shocking display.

mikey_dragon wrote:Raynal is tonight's ref, shocking french official and allowed Ireland's cheating last time. So it could be 60 to Ireland on this occasion.

If that back 3 of ireland gets lots of ball I dont think it'll matter which ref is being used as an excuse.

Wasn't Raynal the bozo that handed Connacht a win over Wasps in the Euro cup by letting them take a line-out from a penalty after time was up before they changed the laws?

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Raynal is tonight's ref, shocking french official and allowed Ireland's cheating last time. So it could be 60 to Ireland on this occasion.

Is it not a bit early for a Welsh fan to be blaming the ref? Should you not at least wait until during the game Mikey, then let loose? Even better, and this may be pushing the boat out here, wait until after Wales lose

I’m not wrong about the French refs but I think we’ll lose despite the officials, we aren’t good enough.

My comments have disappeared? Lol. Am I going mad?

I have to say I'm hoping this performance form wales is replicated when they play england. Cant say I'm looking forward to the battle with Ireland.

Yep, shocking from the mods - they moved our comments to a new thread and then deleted the thread. They gave in to someone throwing their toys out of the pram.

You have to day that's a very deserved score on debut. Wales really havent managed to get at him at all. Looks a seasoned international.

mikey_dragon wrote:Yep, shocking from the mods - they moved our comments to a new thread and then deleted the thread. They gave in to someone throwing their toys out of the pram.

Really? Why?

Good question, that sort of thing will just turn people away from the forum.

Harsh. We weren't being abusive for once despite your POM love hate thing!

mikey_dragon wrote:Good question, that sort of thing will just turn people away from the forum.

The match conversation was moved to the match thread, something I also did in March at your request Mikey, to avoid the squad thread being swamped.

The mechanic is first to split then to merge, hence why there was a new thread.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Harsh. We weren't being abusive for once despite your POM love hate thing!

Nothing was deleted just moved.

Ignore

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Harsh. We weren't being abusive for once despite your POM love hate thing!

Nothing was deleted just moved.

Sorry just seen this. Where?

It's really simple.

You two lads know what you're doing.

There's a long standing history of match threads on this website. It keeps everything in one space. Given the quick turnover of comments, it means multiple pages of short comments can occur without it derailing a longer thread, where people can scroll through quickly without it being a discussion or conversation. It's more like a virtual pub.

This is a discursive thread about Wales. It's not a match thread. You're buring the discussion about Wales with 'commentary', not comments, and you're doing it in order to troll the person who made the match thread.

You know what you're doing. The mods know what you're doing. You're ruining the forum to make a snide dig. If that doesn't sum the two of you up to perfection, I don't know what does. It's like the perfect encapsulation of your essence: two users, combined in their mutual disgruntlement towards other users, who thrive on negativity rather than positivity.

rugby racing and beer wrote:It is but Raynal is crud. A massive homer who generally looks pretty clueless out there. The worst of the French refs by some distance.

I doubt he'll be worse than Brace though. Shocking display.

Thankfully he wasn't worse than Brace. Didn't end up making a difference. Wales were too uncompetitive for most of the game.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Harsh. We weren't being abusive for once despite your POM love hate thing!

Nothing was deleted just moved.

Sorry just seen this. Where?

https://www.606v2.com/t69832-autumm-nations-cup-round-1-match-threads-ire-v-wal-ita-v-sco-eng-v-geo-fra-v-fiji

Your comments are here.

rugby racing and beer wrote:It's really simple.

You two lads know what you're doing.

There's a long standing history of match threads on this website. It keeps everything in one space. Given the quick turnover of comments, it means multiple pages of short comments can occur without it derailing a longer thread, where people can scroll through quickly without it being a discussion or conversation. It's more like a virtual pub.

This is a discursive thread about Wales. It's not a match thread. You're buring the discussion about Wales with 'commentary', not comments, and you're doing it in order to troll the person who made the match thread.

You know what you're doing. The mods know what you're doing. You're ruining the forum to make a snide dig. If that doesn't sum the two of you up to perfection, I don't know what does. It's like the perfect encapsulation of your essence: two users, combined in their mutual disgruntlement towards other users, who thrive on negativity rather than positivity.

rrb, you are the only person whose post I needed to edit. You are not an innocent party in this.

People who want to discuss where Wales go next can do it here.

People who want to discuss the match can are probably best doing it on the match thread.

People who just want to have an argument or insult other users can have 72 hours on the naughty step.

LondonTiger wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:It's really simple.

You two lads know what you're doing.

There's a long standing history of match threads on this website. It keeps everything in one space. Given the quick turnover of comments, it means multiple pages of short comments can occur without it derailing a longer thread, where people can scroll through quickly without it being a discussion or conversation. It's more like a virtual pub.

This is a discursive thread about Wales. It's not a match thread. You're buring the discussion about Wales with 'commentary', not comments, and you're doing it in order to troll the person who made the match thread.

You know what you're doing. The mods know what you're doing. You're ruining the forum to make a snide dig. If that doesn't sum the two of you up to perfection, I don't know what does. It's like the perfect encapsulation of your essence: two users, combined in their mutual disgruntlement towards other users, who thrive on negativity rather than positivity.

rrb, you are the only person whose post I needed to edit. You are not an innocent party in this.

People who want to discuss where Wales go next can do it here.

People who want to discuss the match can are probably best doing it on the match thread.

People who just want to have an argument or insult other users can have 72 hours on the naughty step.

I'm not sure what you edited but the day it comes close to what these two do on a daily/weekly basis, do let me know

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Good question, that sort of thing will just turn people away from the forum.

The match conversation was moved to the match thread, something I also did in March at your request Mikey, to avoid the squad thread being swamped.

The mechanic is first to split then to merge, hence why there was a new thread.

Thanks i guess.

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Harsh. We weren't being abusive for once despite your POM love hate thing!

Nothing was deleted just moved.

Sorry just seen this. Where?

https://www.606v2.com/t69832-autumm-nations-cup-round-1-match-threads-ire-v-wal-ita-v-sco-eng-v-geo-fra-v-fiji

Your comments are here.

Cheers LT. End of that discussion for me then mikey. Have a good one.

The Welsh side is calling out for Haloholo at 12. Or Johnny Williams. Watkins probably played as well as he could today, and it still wasn't enough.

rugby racing and beer wrote:It's really simple.

You two lads know what you're doing.

There's a long standing history of match threads on this website. It keeps everything in one space. Given the quick turnover of comments, it means multiple pages of short comments can occur without it derailing a longer thread, where people can scroll through quickly without it being a discussion or conversation. It's more like a virtual pub.

This is a discursive thread about Wales. It's not a match thread. You're buring the discussion about Wales with 'commentary', not comments, and you're doing it in order to troll the person who made the match thread.

You know what you're doing. The mods know what you're doing. You're ruining the forum to make a snide dig. If that doesn't sum the two of you up to perfection, I don't know what does. It's like the perfect encapsulation of your essence: two users, combined in their mutual disgruntlement towards other users, who thrive on negativity rather than positivity.

Surprised that this sort of accusation is allowed? It’s been one of many. Me and some mates were here commenting away minding our own business, we were happy doing that despite someone’s ongoing attempts at ruining it - I can’t believe I have to actually comment and explain this. You’ve had a shocker not dealing with the culprit.

If having your comments merged in to the existing match thread is 'ruining it' for you, it's pretty clear where you're getting your kicks from. And "mates"...?

Well, we're back to the days of boom and bust rugby in Wales it seems. Except it's hard to see where on earth the boom is coming from - our regions are even worse than the national team.

Rugby without fans is also...poor. And the skill gap between the North and South looks monumental. At least when it comes to the Celts. We've probably just seen the best period Celtic rugby may ever see. The days of England and France dominating the 6Ns seems to be back again. It's hard to say how far they are away from Australia and SA and NZ but Wales are a million miles away from competing with those teams. I think Australia would put 50 points on Wales, easily. NZ...dread to think.

Sadly I think the problem runs deeper than just Pivac but I did question his appointment to beginning. Granted Scarlets did win a League title playing great rugby that year. However they didn't follow it up the following year and most great coaches usually establish a legacy. Someone like Pat Lam for example is far more proven than Pivac. That said I do believe the WRU are right to appoint coaches from within Wales (similar to how New Zealand and Ireland tend to do it).

That in itself raises the issue however about funding of the regions. If you really want to see the best coaches/managers rise to the top they have to work within the budget models or it completely slants the ability of those coaches/managers. Scarlets for example have a payroll of 9 million in funding, Ospreys get 7 mill, Blues 5 mill and Dragons 4. That completely disadvantages each of the lesser funded regions.

But the blame of performance cant be solely placed on Pivac. The real issue is the regions not performing and players lacking confidence. The Regions do have to shoulder some blame here as there are plenty of experienced coaches out there and yet they always seem to bring in managers who either don't know how to use their budgets properly, or fail to really develop players.

Of course the problem runs deeper than Pivac.

We've got big problems in Wales and everyone's known it for years.

Halfpenny is one of the old guard that needs to come out. J Mac in - you can’t ignore that given the state of play in Wales right now, he set up 3 tries! I’d like to see the back 3 made up of Williams, Adams, McNicholl, LRZ.

Morgan Jones should keep his place in the scarlets team when the internationals return. Wales need to be looking at him for their lock replacement.

There was talk of experimentation for the Georgia game. I would pick the best 23 to play and keep that going forward. The best 23 might not contain Lewis, Elias, Tipuric, Faletau, Biggar, North, JD2.

McNicholl called up, good call. Can I assume LRZ is still injured? Botham also called up - another Pivac shocker for me. It should have been Griffiths unless he’s self-isolating...

Time for new blood, not sure where this leaves Gatland when he picks the Lions squad and includes his former Welsh favourites who have looked very average of late.

mikey_dragon wrote:McNicholl called up, good call. Can I assume LRZ is still injured? Botham also called up - another Pivac shocker for me. It should have been Griffiths unless he’s self-isolating...

Playing on the wing for Wales at the moment is surely the equivalent of self isolating

How big a loss wiii jd2 be if he not avalible. who will take his place?

At the moment, the personnel isn't an issue. Or not a major issue. It doesn't help losing his experience though. Any loss of experience is bad at this stage.

I'd think Tompkins would go to 13. It makes room for Bleddyn or Haloholo to come in to the squad as a 12 option as well.

We have to plan to be without JD to be honest. It’s a bit of a shame Tompkins has gone on his bulking phase, as he would probably be next in line. He almost certainly still will be, but I would’ve preferred him how he was at the start of the year.

I hope we're planning to play without a number of players tbh, but in the short term, I don't think personnel matters all that much. Certainly, I can't say JD2 has added much to our performances that other players couldn't/wouldn't. The main loss will be experience and standards in the week. He hasn't played well for Wales for a while as he's been asked to play injured for so long. Not his fault, but he may end up spluttering out instead of finishing his test career after a final Lions tour.

Tompkins looks better bigger to me. His lack of defensive power v Ireland in the 6Ns was a problem. Unless he's lost a yard of pace, which seems unlikely, he looks a better 13 than 12 to me anyway. It's a fairly depressing reality having to line up with Biggar-Watkins-Tompkins though. That might be the worst Welsh midfield and outside half combination we've had in the professional era. With the best will in the world to Biggar, he cannot play running rugby to a good standard, and his best attributes don't suit Pivac's style. I can't think of a worse 10, 12, and 13 combo to have played for the Welsh first team in recent memory. Even going back to the likes of Jamie Robinson.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/54980564

Just for you No.9. More shades of your favourite Welsh rugby era, 2007

Jake Ball to leave Wales for Australia at the end of the season. Big loss for us. Massive. The lock cupboard is looking a bit bare with AWJ on the downward slope and Ball not eligible going forward.

Surely with 49 caps to his name an exception to the 60 cap rule should be made?

Soul Requiem wrote:Surely with 49 caps to his name an exception to the 60 cap rule should be made?

No indication of him even playing rugby in Aus yet. I believe his wife is from Perth, so if the Force don’t snap him up then it’s early retirement.

Soul Requiem wrote:Surely with 49 caps to his name an exception to the 60 cap rule should be made?

The exemption is 60 caps. Not 49. Exception to exemptions is just rewriting the rule and once again breaking the agreement with the regions. Not to say that it shouldn't be open to review , but to straight break it for one specific player just means everyone else can assume the same treatment whatever limitations they put in place. If its 49 this time does the next player with 38 caps demand exception one the bar has been reset?


Edit to cross post a reminder of the greatest moment in his career

Well we're into the beyond stage now. I seen an interest post via Wales Online Rugby... well it was partially interesting. The eight uncapped players now in contention are: Josh Macleod, Willis Halaholo, Harry Randall, Harrison Keddie, WillGriff John, Mat Protheroe, Ifan Phillips, Ashton Hewitt.

I think only one of the back-row forwards will go and it'll be Macleod, well deserved too.

Halaholo will be in if fit. Great player, and kiwi's pick kiwi's anyway.

Randall doesn't want it, as far as I'm aware.

Keddie, see above. I also think it might be too soon and we're not short in the position.

John should have been in the last squad over Lewis. Hope to see him this time but he has been injured quite a bit this season.

I can't see Ifan being in if Owens is available, again maybe just a little bit too soon.

It will be either Protheroe or Lloyd. Hewitt probably should have been in last time, this time he'll miss out again if one of the former is in and Holmes is available.

Of the lock forwards I think the new cap is most likely to be Morgan Jones. He will join Rowlands (hopefully he's okay), Beard, Hill... would prefer if Seb Davies missed out. I just don't think he's international quality.

Just scrolling online the last couple weeks and there seems to be legit calls for Lydiate, Roberts and Priestland. Not that I’m biased but I can see why we would opt for Roberts as a stop gap, and for when Johnny Williams is not available. The other two are shocker calls. Pivac must be getting desperate.