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The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer. 

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland. 

Venues to be announced.

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Post by The Oracle Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:20 am

maestegmafia wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:From what i know of Wayne Pivac he will not see this test as a negative, he will take this opportunity to give some new Welsh players an occassion at the cardiff stadium to play for their country -  this is where dreams are born.

Sure the All Blacks should win, Thought the same thing 2 years ago when they lost for the first time to Argentina.

ABs should put fifty points on this team, some of our selections are seventh or eighth choice in that position. Where as the ABs are picking from an almost full strength squad. Plus the players English clubs refuse to release.

But I hope Wales play with pride and passion and do their damndest defeat the odds stacked against them

Maes, you seem to be blaming the English clubs and their owners here. Yet it’s the IRB/World Rugby who stipulate rules around player release, isn’t it? They’re the ones who set the international windows. Not sure it’s fair to blame the English clubs. Our own clubs only release the players outside the window because they’re paid a lot to do so.

English players are released to the rfu by the prl

Non English players are not. So yes I see the prl and thus the club owners in England’s premiership that are at fault here.

The English premiership clubs could not survive without the money they gladly take from the international game.

If the premiership could survive without the rfu subsidising it then I would be more likely to agree with you.

I do agree with you though that World Rugby need to enlarge the international window, especially post Covid, to enable the game to generate enough funds to exist.

It has been said that this weekends encounter against the ABs should generate £4m profit for the WRU. That is a sum that welsh rugby cannot survive without.

Sorry Maes, but Wales does exactly the same as England. The only difference is that we do not have English internationals playing at our regions. If we did, they would not be released outside the window either as the RFU has not paid for their release. Both unions pays extra to their clubs for additional player release outside the normal windows. I guess the idea being that the extra funding can be used to pay for extra players to cover for the absence of some during the international window (hence more funding in wales to regions who provide more players).
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Post by RiscaGame Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:37 am

I thought he was in form. Tbf, he could be looking at Taylor Davies. Technically a Scarlets player too, so fits the bill Wink

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Post by ebop Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:24 pm

Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?
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Post by The Oracle Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:36 pm

ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.
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Post by geoff999rugby Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:57 pm

Wales have called up an Ulster reserve ?

Hope one of the Regions need a hooker because he won’t be an Ulster player after next summer.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:14 pm

The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

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Post by The Oracle Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:34 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point Laugh ). I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like. Could be wrong though.
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Post by The Oracle Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:37 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Wales have called up an Ulster reserve ?

Hope one of the Regions need a hooker because he won’t be an Ulster player after next summer.

Seems an odd one for sure. But yes, a call up is only an invite after all. He doesn’t have to accept it. But if he does.....well, then he’s nailing his colours to the mast and I suppose a move to play in Wales would be inevitable at some point.
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Post by doctor_grey Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:41 pm

The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point Laugh ).  I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like.  Could be wrong though.
I might be wrong as well, but I think the RFU does pay a set amount per player drafted into the England squad.  Otherwise poor performing clubs which don't develop players would be rewarded (or compensated) the same as clubs which do.  Not sure the compensation, though I thought it was £40k per player.   I don't know if there is a difference whether the players actually gets on the pitch or not.

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Post by The Oracle Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:45 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point Laugh ).  I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like.  Could be wrong though.
I might be wrong as well, but I think the RFU does pay a set amount per player drafted into the England squad.  Otherwise poor performing clubs which don't develop players would be rewarded (or compensated) the same as clubs which do.  Not sure the compensation, though I thought it was £40k per player.   I don't know if there is a difference whether the players actually gets on the pitch or not.

I’m sure 7.5 can help us as he had a long running argument with Phil about this, or similar Smile
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Post by ebop Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:34 pm

Thanks guys, appreciate the discussion
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:30 am

The Oracle wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point Laugh ).  I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like.  Could be wrong though.
I might be wrong as well, but I think the RFU does pay a set amount per player drafted into the England squad.  Otherwise poor performing clubs which don't develop players would be rewarded (or compensated) the same as clubs which do.  Not sure the compensation, though I thought it was £40k per player.   I don't know if there is a difference whether the players actually gets on the pitch or not.

I’m sure 7.5 can help us as he had a long running argument with Phil about this, or similar Smile

Where phil confirms 80 per cent wages contributed by the wru then says they don't actually pay the player direct so it doesn't count?

In terms of england this should summarise it though there are changes with covid etc. Should have remained much the same so based on English qualified rather than those chosen for camps so London Irish still get the money despite no players. Then there is the squad chosen by Jones who are released for camps https://www.ruck.co.uk/rfu-premiership-rugby-sign-new-professional-game-agreement/

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:14 am

Well this could be a decent one...

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:17 am

pretty decent crowd in Wink

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:20 am

Ouch. that was not the start Wales wanted!

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:28 am

Yellow at least

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:28 am

That's a YC surely!

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Post by The Oracle Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:28 am

Absolute joke not to give a yellow for that deliberate knock on. Ffs.
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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:28 am

Wales got done there

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:29 am

Bad decision!!

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:29 am

NZ get away with it again ... weak officiating

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:29 am

When Faf de Klerk did that in the RC he got a yellow card. When WILLIE LE roux did that in the RC he got a yellow card

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:30 am

Woeful ref!!

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:31 am

Gormless idiot. How can you not give that?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:32 am

NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:32 am

This ref does have a track record of being crap ..

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:35 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

Yes but the attacker was in full pelt. Yellow would have been the right result. Barrett knew exactly what he was doing. Professional....

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:35 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

The same applied when SA got their yellow cards.

I was told one hand attempt equals yellow card.

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:36 am

If there were no defenders it would be card plus penalty try

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:36 am

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

The same applied when SA got their yellow cards.

I was told one hand attempt equals yellow card.

Isn’t a one hand attempt if you try to play the ball upwards?

Anyway, it’s a yellow. Doesn’t matter about covering defence etc. Nobody is saying penalty try.

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:38 am

RiscaGame wrote:
Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

The same applied when SA got their yellow cards.

I was told one hand attempt equals yellow card.

Isn’t a one hand attempt if you try to play the ball upwards?

Anyway, it’s a yellow. Doesn’t matter about covering defence etc. Nobody is saying penalty try.

Doesn't matter where the ball goes if it is a one handed attempt

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:39 am

Is that AWJ shoulder again?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:39 am

1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:40 am

Wales are going to get picked off again if they are not careful

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Post by The Oracle Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:41 am

Basham looking good. Backs moves not looking great really. Playing flat and getting isolated.
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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:42 am

Is Cardiff the Capitol of Wales?

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

Fair enough. Crossed wires, I think. That’s scan reading for you. Apologies.

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

If it is genrally only a penalty then why not consistently applied?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:45 am

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

If it is genrally only a penalty then why not consistently applied?

I guess because offcials are human and its open to interpretation given specific circumstances.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:46 am

Another rubbish decision

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Post by The Oracle Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:48 am

This ref has fishermen in the family I reckon!
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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:49 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

If it is genrally only a penalty then why not consistently applied?

I guess because offcials are human and its open to interpretation given specific circumstances.

Hmmmm, humanity. So flawed, often interestingly flawed.

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:50 am

One interesting aspect of OZ and NZ rugby this season is their propensity to kick all goal able penalties against tier one opposition.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:51 am

There's a bit of niggle in this game isn't there

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:52 am

Yep definitely a bit of jiggle in the niggle.

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:57 am

It's raining, why did they not shut the roof?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:57 am

Wales getting the bad decisions.

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:58 am

Powerplay by Nz there

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:58 am

BigGee wrote:It's raining, why did they not shut the roof?

Just to ask that. NZ ask to keep it open?

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Post by Old Man Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:00 am

Wales need to score next

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