The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

by mikey_dragon Tue 22 Sep 2020, 10:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer.

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland.

Venues to be announced.

by Guest Fri 29 Oct 2021, 5:20 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:From what i know of Wayne Pivac he will not see this test as a negative, he will take this opportunity to give some new Welsh players an occassion at the cardiff stadium to play for their country - this is where dreams are born.

Sure the All Blacks should win, Thought the same thing 2 years ago when they lost for the first time to Argentina.

ABs should put fifty points on this team, some of our selections are seventh or eighth choice in that position. Where as the ABs are picking from an almost full strength squad. Plus the players English clubs refuse to release.

But I hope Wales play with pride and passion and do their damndest defeat the odds stacked against them

Maes, you seem to be blaming the English clubs and their owners here. Yet it’s the IRB/World Rugby who stipulate rules around player release, isn’t it? They’re the ones who set the international windows. Not sure it’s fair to blame the English clubs. Our own clubs only release the players outside the window because they’re paid a lot to do so.

English players are released to the rfu by the prl

Non English players are not. So yes I see the prl and thus the club owners in England’s premiership that are at fault here.

The English premiership clubs could not survive without the money they gladly take from the international game.

If the premiership could survive without the rfu subsidising it then I would be more likely to agree with you.

I do agree with you though that World Rugby need to enlarge the international window, especially post Covid, to enable the game to generate enough funds to exist.

It has been said that this weekends encounter against the ABs should generate £4m profit for the WRU. That is a sum that welsh rugby cannot survive without.

Sorry Maes, but Wales does exactly the same as England. The only difference is that we do not have English internationals playing at our regions. If we did, they would not be released outside the window either as the RFU has not paid for their release. Both unions pays extra to their clubs for additional player release outside the normal windows. I guess the idea being that the extra funding can be used to pay for extra players to cover for the absence of some during the international window (hence more funding in wales to regions who provide more players).

by **RiscaGame** Fri 29 Oct 2021, 6:37 pm

I thought he was in form. Tbf, he could be looking at Taylor Davies. Technically a Scarlets player too, so fits the bill Wink

by Guest Fri 29 Oct 2021, 8:24 pm

Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

by Guest Fri 29 Oct 2021, 9:36 pm

ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

by geoff999rugby Fri 29 Oct 2021, 10:57 pm

Wales have called up an Ulster reserve ?

Hope one of the Regions need a hooker because he won’t be an Ulster player after next summer.

by mikey_dragon Fri 29 Oct 2021, 11:14 pm

The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

by Guest Fri 29 Oct 2021, 11:34 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point Laugh

). I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like. Could be wrong though.

by Guest Fri 29 Oct 2021, 11:37 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Wales have called up an Ulster reserve ?

Hope one of the Regions need a hooker because he won’t be an Ulster player after next summer.

Seems an odd one for sure. But yes, a call up is only an invite after all. He doesn’t have to accept it. But if he does.....well, then he’s nailing his colours to the mast and I suppose a move to play in Wales would be inevitable at some point.

by doctor_grey Fri 29 Oct 2021, 11:41 pm

The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point ). I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like. Could be wrong though.

I might be wrong as well, but I think the RFU does pay a set amount per player drafted into the England squad. Otherwise poor performing clubs which don't develop players would be rewarded (or compensated) the same as clubs which do. Not sure the compensation, though I thought it was £40k per player. I don't know if there is a difference whether the players actually gets on the pitch or not.

by Guest Fri 29 Oct 2021, 11:45 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point ). I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like. Could be wrong though.
I might be wrong as well, but I think the RFU does pay a set amount per player drafted into the England squad. Otherwise poor performing clubs which don't develop players would be rewarded (or compensated) the same as clubs which do. Not sure the compensation, though I thought it was £40k per player. I don't know if there is a difference whether the players actually gets on the pitch or not.

I’m sure 7.5 can help us as he had a long running argument with Phil about this, or similar Smile

by Guest Sat 30 Oct 2021, 2:34 am

Thanks guys, appreciate the discussion

by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Oct 2021, 8:30 am

The Oracle wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
ebop wrote:Anyone have an indication of what it costs a union to release a player from a club? You’d think it wouldn’t be too much, relatively speaking, or do the clubs set the fee unreasonably high as a deterrent?

There’s no set fee per player as such. It’s just in the very detailed and complicated funding agreement between the union and the regions (in Wales). So all the pro sides get X million which covers a lot of things including player release, plus in Wales the WRU pays/contributes 80% of the wages of the top 38 Wales players as identified by the Wales selectors. And the reason for doing that is, in part, to have greater access to them.

I thought he was referring to English clubs? Again, not sure there is a cost for that so to speak. However, Northampton once released George North and were fined £60,000.

Yeah, I don’t think England is a fee per player either but wasn’t sure so just talked about Wales which I know a little better (although I’m sure Phillip will be along to correct me at some point ). I think the PRL agreement with the RFU is a lump sum per club and they can spend it how they like. Could be wrong though.
I might be wrong as well, but I think the RFU does pay a set amount per player drafted into the England squad. Otherwise poor performing clubs which don't develop players would be rewarded (or compensated) the same as clubs which do. Not sure the compensation, though I thought it was £40k per player. I don't know if there is a difference whether the players actually gets on the pitch or not.

I’m sure 7.5 can help us as he had a long running argument with Phil about this, or similar

Where phil confirms 80 per cent wages contributed by the wru then says they don't actually pay the player direct so it doesn't count?

In terms of england this should summarise it though there are changes with covid etc. Should have remained much the same so based on English qualified rather than those chosen for camps so London Irish still get the money despite no players. Then there is the squad chosen by Jones who are released for camps https://www.ruck.co.uk/rfu-premiership-rugby-sign-new-professional-game-agreement/

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:14 pm

Well this could be a decent one...

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:17 pm

pretty decent crowd in Wink

by **BigGee** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:20 pm

Ouch. that was not the start Wales wanted!

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:28 pm

Yellow at least

by **BigGee** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:28 pm

That's a YC surely!

by Guest Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:28 pm

Absolute joke not to give a yellow for that deliberate knock on. Ffs.

by **BigGee** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:28 pm

Wales got done there

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:29 pm

Bad decision!!

by Heaf Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:29 pm

NZ get away with it again ... weak officiating

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:29 pm

When Faf de Klerk did that in the RC he got a yellow card. When WILLIE LE roux did that in the RC he got a yellow card

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:30 pm

Woeful ref!!

by **RiscaGame** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:31 pm

Gormless idiot. How can you not give that?

by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:32 pm

NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

by Heaf Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:32 pm

This ref does have a track record of being crap ..

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

Yes but the attacker was in full pelt. Yellow would have been the right result. Barrett knew exactly what he was doing. Professional....

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

The same applied when SA got their yellow cards.

I was told one hand attempt equals yellow card.

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:36 pm

If there were no defenders it would be card plus penalty try

by **RiscaGame** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:36 pm

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

The same applied when SA got their yellow cards.

I was told one hand attempt equals yellow card.

Isn’t a one hand attempt if you try to play the ball upwards?

Anyway, it’s a yellow. Doesn’t matter about covering defence etc. Nobody is saying penalty try.

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:38 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:NZ did have 2 defenders at least covering it. Could have been yellow but would have been pretty harsh.

The same applied when SA got their yellow cards.

I was told one hand attempt equals yellow card.

Isn’t a one hand attempt if you try to play the ball upwards?

Anyway, it’s a yellow. Doesn’t matter about covering defence etc. Nobody is saying penalty try.

Doesn't matter where the ball goes if it is a one handed attempt

by **BigGee** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:39 pm

Is that AWJ shoulder again?

by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:39 pm

1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

by **BigGee** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:40 pm

Wales are going to get picked off again if they are not careful

by Guest Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:41 pm

Basham looking good. Backs moves not looking great really. Playing flat and getting isolated.

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:42 pm

Is Cardiff the Capitol of Wales?

by **RiscaGame** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

Fair enough. Crossed wires, I think. That’s scan reading for you. Apologies.

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

If it is genrally only a penalty then why not consistently applied?

by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:45 pm

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

If it is genrally only a penalty then why not consistently applied?

I guess because offcials are human and its open to interpretation given specific circumstances.

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:46 pm

Another rubbish decision

by Guest Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:48 pm

This ref has fishermen in the family I reckon!

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:1 handed will generally get you a deliberate knock on. But a deliberate knock on is only a penalty normally. The guys going to be tackled immediately which is why I think its not a yellow.

Jones' shoulder again.

If it is genrally only a penalty then why not consistently applied?

I guess because offcials are human and its open to interpretation given specific circumstances.

Hmmmm, humanity. So flawed, often interestingly flawed.

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:50 pm

One interesting aspect of OZ and NZ rugby this season is their propensity to kick all goal able penalties against tier one opposition.

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:51 pm

There's a bit of niggle in this game isn't there

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:52 pm

Yep definitely a bit of jiggle in the niggle.

by **BigGee** Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:57 pm

It's raining, why did they not shut the roof?

by Geordie Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:57 pm

Wales getting the bad decisions.

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:58 pm

Powerplay by Nz there

by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Oct 2021, 5:58 pm

BigGee wrote:It's raining, why did they not shut the roof?

Just to ask that. NZ ask to keep it open?

by Old Man Sat 30 Oct 2021, 6:00 pm

Wales need to score next

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