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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Another chat thread dedicated to speculation, rumination, and general perambulation through the trials and tribulations of the club from the west with no forwards and the club from the east without a backs coach.

One day we'll have more rugby to talk about!
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Post by bsando on Sun 04 Oct 2020, 1:32 pm

yes there are lots of positives for sure. Jones looks the real deal at fullback and the backline in general looked very sharp.

I'm still expecting Glasgow to get better and pick up some good results.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 04 Oct 2020, 11:10 pm

The problem I have is from a Scottish point of view Jones is wasted at 15.

Is he going to oust Hogg at 15?
No
Would he oust Harris at 13?
Easy

In addition is battleship Grimpleton going to be playing 13 for Scotland?
No

We need to have these players playing in their proper position or we’ll end up opening the whole “third pro team” debate again
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Post by BigGee on Sun 04 Oct 2020, 11:31 pm

Just because Jones is playing FB for Glasgow does not mean he can't play 13 for Scotland

I am sure Toonie will have noted his form and will want to get him involved this time around

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Post by RDW on Sun 04 Oct 2020, 11:56 pm

BigGee wrote:Just because Jones is playing FB for Glasgow does not mean he can't play 13 for Scotland

I am sure Toonie will have noted his form and will want to get him involved this time around

It's far from ideal though. 13 is pretty unique in terms of defensive positioning and running lines - it's a big ask to just slot back in at international level.

I'd rather see Jones playing for Glasgow than not, and if that's at 15 then so be it!


Last edited by RDW on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BigGee on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 12:12 am

It will be interesting to see where Toonie goes with this one.

Hoggy is certainly going to miss the warm up game v Georgia, so there is a FB slot to be filled and maybe the match to give Shuggy a try.

I think Jones is actually a pretty versatile player, looking at the way he has adapted to playing FB, he looks like he could slot in very comfortably anywhere in the back line.

What he most certainly is though is a confidence player and the more he plays, the better he is likely to get. Wilson, unlike DR seems to get that and is playing him at FB as it currently suits the team better for that to happen.

It may be that other options (some of the youngsters maybe) step up in the international windows when they will undoubtedly get their opportunities and later in the season, it may make more sense for him to move back to the 13 shirt.

I think after the past couple of seasons, he is just happy to be playing!

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Post by RDW on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 7:22 am

What happened to Luke Crosbie? Looks like he went off very early.

Hope it's not a bad one - our back row is already going to be stretched in the autumn tests.

Although Haining might have played himself out of a spot!

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Post by BigGee on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 7:29 am

I think he did a hammy

Might be out for a while

Bradbury had a head knock as well. Might be seeing Boyle and Farge sooner than expected!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 7:44 am

BigGee wrote:I think he did a hammy

Might be out for a while

Bradbury had a head knock as well. Might be seeing Boyle and Farge sooner than expected!

Not necessarily a bad thing. Keen to see what they can do at pro!
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Post by RDW on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 8:11 am

I think we were always going to be seeing them during this period. Just in an ideal world wouldn't have been relying on them as front line players!

Barclay back on a short term deal...?

Would actually make a lot of sense, but I can't imagine a proud man like Barclay would be overly interested.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 8:17 am

Depends how well they step up really. Other option is getting a loan from the prem. Maybe Guy Graham? Or perhaps see if they can tempt CHH back although given his development at sarries I'd be reluctant for ed to take him back.
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Post by EST on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 8:24 am

Looks like the Edinburgh team are going through a bit of a dip - maybe Cockers went too hard at them in the media after the Ulster game? Just a hangover from heading out of two comps at the knockout stages? They look totally shot of confidence just now.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 9:00 am

EST wrote:Looks like the Edinburgh team are going through a bit of a dip - maybe Cockers went too hard at them in the media after the Ulster game? Just a hangover from heading out of two comps at the knockout stages? They look totally shot of confidence just now.

Imo they wouldn't have needed cockers to go at them after the Ulster game. They will have known that was a gigantic balls-up and a huge missed opportunity.

I feel like a broken record but given the amount of aimless kicks and missed opportunities a good portion of blame lies with Hodge as well as the team. Just look at Glasgow this weekend in comparison. They lost away from home, albeit in better conditions but they took maybe 3/4s of their opportunities. Edinburgh failed to take advantage of penalties, yellow cards etc. Even if you consider the horrible conditions, things like missing touch from a penalty are fairly major contributors to a team shot on confidence, Hodge was a kicking coach for a long time, why is Edinburgh's kicking game so awful? Last time around it was groome who was obviously told to kick, they ended up giving Ulster all the points they'd gained on them. Now that shiel is starting VdW has taken that role.

There's also very little support in the backs play. Again look at Glasgow they have runners on each shoulder. Edinburgh have incredible talent in the back three but the support running just isn't there, which again suggests a coaching issue.
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Post by bsando on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 9:10 am

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:Just because Jones is playing FB for Glasgow does not mean he can't play 13 for Scotland

I am sure Toonie will have noted his form and will want to get him involved this time around

It's far from ideal though. 13 is pretty unique in terms of defensive positioning and running lines - it's a big ask to just slot back in at international level.

I'd rather see Jones playing for Glasgow than not, and if that's at 15 then so be it!

I'm sure Toonie will actually be pretty happy he's playing at 15 for Glasgow. Plenty of world class backline players are good utility players, JOC, Beale, J and B Barrett as obvious examples. I don't really agree with the argument that a player playing well in one position only, nailing down that position, will have a more positive outcome. I understand the argument of course but I don't think it should be something to fear or discourage if it is done in a sensible way. Some utility players have been mismanaged by teams and that has lead to a decline in their game, but Jones enjoys attacking rugby. Now he's getting an opportunity to improve his kicking game and defensive positioning whilst getting his hands on the ball a lot more.

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Post by EST on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 11:23 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
EST wrote:Looks like the Edinburgh team are going through a bit of a dip - maybe Cockers went too hard at them in the media after the Ulster game?  Just a hangover from heading out of two comps at the knockout stages?  They look totally shot of confidence just now.  

Imo they wouldn't have needed cockers to go at them after the Ulster game. They will have known that was a gigantic balls-up and a huge missed opportunity.

I feel like a broken record but given the amount of aimless kicks and missed opportunities a good portion of blame lies with Hodge as well as the team. Just look at Glasgow this weekend in comparison. They lost away from home, albeit in better conditions but they took maybe 3/4s of their opportunities. Edinburgh failed to take advantage of penalties, yellow cards etc. Even if you consider the horrible conditions, things like missing touch from a penalty are fairly major contributors to a team shot on confidence, Hodge was a kicking coach for a long time, why is Edinburgh's kicking game so awful? Last time around it was groome who was obviously told to kick, they ended up giving Ulster all the points they'd gained on them. Now that shiel is starting VdW has taken that role.

There's also very little support in the backs play. Again look at Glasgow they have runners on each shoulder. Edinburgh have incredible talent in the back three but the support running just isn't there, which again suggests a coaching issue.

Yeah, I agree they need to move Hodge on - I don't think you could say any of the back-lines he has coached have been incisive or coherent. From a wider point of view thought, Edinburgh just look drained and a bit defeated. I know we have just had a huge break from playing, but it looks to me like they need a break to draw a line under last season and re-set, last seasons form is bleeding into this campaign.

I'm not feeling overly confident about either club this season - their squads are going to be hit harder than most of the competition and there are some big holes in each team as it is. At least we can blood plenty youngsters ala Glasgow circa 2011/12 and get a whole group of youngsters decent game time.

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 12:23 pm

Hard to disagree with the comments above.

Edinburgh needs to give some of those kids a break - they looked absolutely wiped in the second half.

I'm normally all over the signings for the new season but it completely passed me by this season. I trust Cockerill to recruit well as he seems to have a Klopp 'no g@bshites' policy when it comes to the quality of men he'll have around him.
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 05 Oct 2020, 12:38 pm

Hi GC Welcome to the board. Always nice to see a new member joining in!
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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 3:00 am

I'm amazed GC has almost 15000 posts. Wen did they happen!

I've got my 30,000th coming up - better make it a good one.

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Post by bsando on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 8:01 am

Wow that is a lot of posts RDW, how will you celebrate? I've got my 3000th approaching, we could have a joint party! I've definitely been on here for at least 10 years but I've jumped in and out during that time, usually depending on how busy/productive I need to be.

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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 9:12 am

30,000 posts of top class punditry of course!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 9:25 am

I've not even made 2500 yet! To be fair half of mine are usually an angry rant about how bad Scotland were that day. The other half are how brilliant we'll be.
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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 10:36 am

NeilyBroon wrote:I've not even made 2500 yet! To be fair half of mine are usually an angry rant about how bad Scotland were that day. The other half are how brilliant we'll be.

Think that applies to most of us on here!

The joys of being a Scotland fan.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 2:00 pm

https://twitter.com/BruynTammi/status/1313461522300055552

Glasgow's mythical 15th academy signing confirmed by his mum!

Joining when he ends school in SA and he is SQ

A Glaswegian Grandfather, what's not to like

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Post by RDW on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 9:58 pm

It's absolutely terrifying seeing how humongous South African school boys are.

You just need to look at the guy Edinburgh signed on his Instagram (forgotten his name) - he's got the physique of a pro rugby player and by the look of it has done for the last couple of years! I'm not convinced that's overly healthy for teenagers to do.

When they both arrive in th academies I can't imagine they'll have much catching up to do in the gym!

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Post by 123456789. on Wed 07 Oct 2020, 3:33 pm

bsando wrote:
RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:Just because Jones is playing FB for Glasgow does not mean he can't play 13 for Scotland

I am sure Toonie will have noted his form and will want to get him involved this time around

It's far from ideal though. 13 is pretty unique in terms of defensive positioning and running lines - it's a big ask to just slot back in at international level.

I'd rather see Jones playing for Glasgow than not, and if that's at 15 then so be it!

I'm sure Toonie will actually be pretty happy he's playing at 15 for Glasgow. Plenty of world class backline players are good utility players, JOC, Beale, J and B Barrett as obvious examples. I don't really agree with the argument that a player playing well in one position only, nailing down that position, will have a more positive outcome. I understand the argument of course but I don't think it should be something to fear or discourage if it is done in a sensible way. Some utility players have been mismanaged by teams and that has lead to a decline in their game, but Jones enjoys attacking rugby. Now he's getting an opportunity to improve his kicking game and defensive positioning whilst getting his hands on the ball a lot more.

The worry is that even at his devastating best Jones' defence positioning was iffy to say the least. Moving him to full-back won't really help in that respect. I think Townsend is guilty of having favourites and Harris is certainly one of them. Playing Jones at 15 gives Townsend an excuse to persevere with Harris.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 07 Oct 2020, 4:10 pm

123456789. wrote:
bsando wrote:
RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:Just because Jones is playing FB for Glasgow does not mean he can't play 13 for Scotland

I am sure Toonie will have noted his form and will want to get him involved this time around

It's far from ideal though. 13 is pretty unique in terms of defensive positioning and running lines - it's a big ask to just slot back in at international level.

I'd rather see Jones playing for Glasgow than not, and if that's at 15 then so be it!

I'm sure Toonie will actually be pretty happy he's playing at 15 for Glasgow. Plenty of world class backline players are good utility players, JOC, Beale, J and B Barrett as obvious examples. I don't really agree with the argument that a player playing well in one position only, nailing down that position, will have a more positive outcome. I understand the argument of course but I don't think it should be something to fear or discourage if it is done in a sensible way. Some utility players have been mismanaged by teams and that has lead to a decline in their game, but Jones enjoys attacking rugby. Now he's getting an opportunity to improve his kicking game and defensive positioning whilst getting his hands on the ball a lot more.

The worry is that even at his devastating best Jones' defence positioning was iffy to say the least. Moving him to full-back won't really help in that respect. I think Townsend is guilty of having favourites and Harris is certainly one of them. Playing Jones at 15 gives Townsend an excuse to persevere with Harris.

I think that may have been true in the past but it's hard to argue with Harris's recent form. I hope that Jones can come off the bench, make a big impact and give Toonie a selection headache. Either way by covering two back positions he's given himself a better chance of match day squad selection.
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Post by George Carlin on Wed 07 Oct 2020, 4:54 pm

tigertattie wrote:Hi GC Welcome to the board. Always nice to see a new member joining in!

kiss
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Post by George Carlin on Wed 07 Oct 2020, 4:55 pm

RDW wrote:30,000 posts of astonishing drivel of course!
Yes, but you really shouldn’t feel bad.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 07 Oct 2020, 8:55 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:30,000 posts of astonishing drivel of course!
Yes, but you really shouldn’t feel bad.

miaow?
Run

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Post by RDW on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 2:30 am

I was going to post the podcast link on here but decided to make a whole topic of it - Tom Phillip has been interviewed on the Get After It podcast, and it's a really difficult listen particularly for rugby fans who watched him at the time and had no idea just how bad things were.

https://www.606v2.com/t69778-tom-phillip-mental-health-and-rugby#3928773

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Post by BigGee on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 1:05 pm

Glasgow sign TJ Ioane from London Irish on loan to boast their back row options going into the international window.

He is a Samoan international back row, so a pretty good pedigree

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Post by EST on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 1:48 pm

Pretty decent stop-gap given the circumstances, although not sure how much game time he has been getting at Irish.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 2:05 pm

EST wrote:Pretty decent stop-gap given the circumstances, although not sure how much game time he has been getting at Irish.

Not a massive amount really.

He's decent enough though. High energy and reasonably dynamic. Can feel a bit like a red card waiting to happen occasionally.

You could do a lot worse as a short term signing.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 2:10 pm

We will take him, not in a position to be choosy really and we will need him on the international windows

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Post by EST on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 2:38 pm

Margin_Walker wrote:
EST wrote:Pretty decent stop-gap given the circumstances, although not sure how much game time he has been getting at Irish.

Not a massive amount really.

He's decent enough though. High energy and reasonably dynamic. Can feel a bit like a red card waiting to happen occasionally.

You could do a lot worse as a short term signing.

Thanks

And absolutely, its a better signing that I was imagining we could get at this stage and much needed.

I seem to remember he likes chucking himself about a bit looking for the big shot, he always stands out cause of his barnet.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 3:28 pm

Yep, very enthusiastic and always keen on a big hit / clear out. Can go wrong on occasion.

I like him though and he's always a decent bench option when you need some fresh impetuous in the final 20.


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Post by jimbopip on Thu 08 Oct 2020, 5:37 pm

Our new Samoan???

He's big, dynamic off the back of the scrum, hits hard and , from his highlights reel, loves running into people. Furra Linee must be REALLY looking forward to training tomorrow.

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Post by RDW on Fri 09 Oct 2020, 12:00 am

McInally and Gilchrist appointed joint Edinburgh captains, with Pyrgos and Groom vice captains.

They all seem to be respected by the coaches and players but neither are overly inspiring choices! McInally's captaincy on the pitch has never impressed me.

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Post by bsando on Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:29 am

Who do you think would be a good alternative? Groom might have been a good choice, older head and wealth of experience. I'm not too fussed with McInally and GG, I think they'll do alright.

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Post by EST on Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:39 am

Steady if uninspiring choices - neither of them have been playing well since the restart either.

Ritchie would be my choice, but I suppose he isn't assured of his starting place when everybody is fit.

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Post by bsando on Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:44 am

Not Edinburgh or Glasgow related, but a player from my old high school in Perth WA (Connor O'Sullivan) has won the top award for Premier Grade rugby (WA's highest domestic league). The Premier Grade final is being live streamed at 8.20am on youtube tomorrow incase anyone feels like something different.

I saw him in some highlights a while ago (link below, Connor O'Sullivan is the no.8) and wondered how he was getting on after high school because he looked a pretty decent player. He seems to be doing very well! Hopefully he'll get a call up to the Force and a professional contract, I think he'd be an excellent signing for a relatively cheap price for any European club. He has lot of potential and he coaches too. I'm interested to see how his career progresses.

https://wa.rugby/news/2020/10/07/connor-osullivan-wins-2020-pg-hampshire-award?fbclid=IwAR2FOjJkVWXnFVJGVLtQSJoWBstT09bt1fdDPAVIEBa9cRwOikEgFe_-HJQ

https://wa.rugby/news/2020/10/09/fortescue-championship-division-grand-final-preview

https://youtu.be/I88VmYVFnuM?t=201

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Post by BigGee on Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:59 am

Any Scottish blood Bsando?

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Post by bsando on Fri 09 Oct 2020, 9:26 am

No idea! Possibly Irish going by his surname. You never know though..
The last backrower to win Wallabies honours from UWA Rugby was David Pocock, so it's not a bad place to sign talent from. And actually his older brother Rory is a scrum half/Fly half and has been on the fringes at the Western Force. He's playing at FH and Connor is playing at 7 for the final tomorrow (RugbyWA Youtube page).

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Post by bsando on Sat 10 Oct 2020, 7:12 pm

Redpath had a good game for Bath going by his attacking play. Looks a tricky player to tackle, very slippery like Hastings and a good distributor. You never know I guess but I still think he’ll play for England going by his upbringing.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 10 Oct 2020, 8:37 pm

Redpath had a good first half. Felt like he dropped off in the second before he was replaced.

Hogg was excellent and J Gray was overshadowed by Hill but solid. SHC and Skinner were fine but the game was pretty much won by the time they came on.

Did not really watch the Wasps game late due to the scoreline so no idea on Vellacott. It is a big shame that Bassett was not born in Edinburgh, he reminds me of Maitland in terms of doing everything well.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 10 Oct 2020, 9:26 pm

Another sloppy performance from Edinburgh, who lost that game purely on the amount of penalties they gave away, many of them for soft high tackles.

Haining is going to have to tighten up on his disciple if he is going to keep Thompson out of the Scotland squad, from what we saw tonight, he may have played himself out of it.

I suppose from being badly beaten last week, to a game they could/should have won is an improvement, but still 0-2 is not a good start to the season.

Lets see if Glasgow can do any better tomorrow!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 10 Oct 2020, 10:19 pm

Very frustrating. Plenty good stuff in there, and a LBP away at Munster is not to be sniffed at, but we gave away far too many cheap penalties.

Still, an improved performance.

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Post by RDW on Sat 10 Oct 2020, 10:43 pm

Another gutting result to wake up to. At least each week it's for different reasons...!

Not many teams win away to Munster so it's a positive sign that we almost did...

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Post by RDW on Sat 10 Oct 2020, 11:52 pm

Just watched the extended highlights - that was a whole lot better from Edinburgh. We actually did a driving maul!! Lovely try from Bennett - he looked sharp.

Discipline badly let us down though, and frustratingly I think we gave away 9 points when we had the ball, and in relatively innocuous positions too. That's far too soft away to Munster.

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Post by bsando on Sun 11 Oct 2020, 11:12 am

I avoided the score and watched the full match this morning. Gutting result, Edinburgh did everything right to win that one but once again the penalty count wasn't good enough and they shipped cheap points to Munster in the first half.

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