The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:40 am

First topic message reminder :

Game's kicking off, may as well make a match thread.

EDIT: May as well make it a rolling thread.


Last edited by rugby racing and beer on Sat 07 Nov 2020, 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down


Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 11:25 am

ebop wrote:‘Aura’

The ABs have lost their ‘aura’

Does any other team have this thing called ‘aura’

Serious queston

Hehehehe. Here he is.

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 11:26 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Yeah I think it's fair to say that the aura from 5 years ago has well and truly gone.

To get beaten by that Argentinian team, considering where it's been pre-lockdown, is a shocker.

I dunno I think its been coming for a while, this is a good Argentina side and they have had some close encounters with NZ in recent years. Id say they would beat any team if they played them as much as they play NZ now.

Really? You saw this coming?! Argentina have been absolutely she-height for 2-3 years now. They pushed a dog turd NZ team in a world cup warm up but then bottled it at the last minute. I can't say I saw a win coming in this particular game given how much rugby each side has played. Not at all.

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by TJ on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 11:30 am

That argentinian performance would have beaten andy NH team easily IMO, talk about brick wall defense!

TJ

Posts : 7569
Join date : 2013-09-22

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 11:40 am

ebop wrote:‘Aura’

The ABs have lost their ‘aura’

Does any other team have this thing called ‘aura’

Serious queston

I doubt it. If this is NZ playing poorly then they still look pretty good. I think everyone would feel it if you lose Read, Rettalick and Hansen. It doesn’t seem like the gap left by Conrad Smith has been plugged. He was a mainstay during each rebuild lasting over a decade and he was the best in the world.

Ignore the trolls. Mods don’t seem to want to deal with the individual, but at some point enough will be enough and we can all enjoy the forum again Smile. Personally I mostly hate coming here right now.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 11434
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by ebop on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 11:56 am

rugby racing and beer wrote:
ebop wrote:‘Aura’

The ABs have lost their ‘aura’

Does any other team have this thing called ‘aura’

Serious queston

Hehehehe. Here he is.
Who do you support again, I forget, just for the record
ebop
ebop

Posts : 5051
Join date : 2011-10-25

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 12:11 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Yeah I think it's fair to say that the aura from 5 years ago has well and truly gone.

To get beaten by that Argentinian team, considering where it's been pre-lockdown, is a shocker.

I dunno I think its been coming for a while, this is a good Argentina side and they have had some close encounters with NZ in recent years. Id say they would beat any team if they played them as much as they play NZ now.

Really? You saw this coming?! Argentina have been absolutely she-height for 2-3 years now. They pushed a dog turd NZ team in a world cup warm up but then bottled it at the last minute. I can't say I saw a win coming in this particular game given how much rugby each side has played. Not at all.

Yes, thought they would beat them in last years rugby championship, they lost by 4 points. The previous 3 or 4 rugby championship games were all tight enough games with NZ always pulling away in the last quarter.

The Jaguares have also got wins, including away wins against all NZ super rugby sides except the Crusaders who they lost to last season on the final. Argentina have exceptionally talented players who I believed would be good enough to beat NZ and were building towards it. Away wins v Australia and SA in recent years also hinted at what they were capable of

Collapse2005

Posts : 4950
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 12:13 pm

Arg haven't had great coaches in recent years. They seem to have them now. Hopefully Jaguares get back up and running as I feel that certainly helps them. They're not good as good as that famous team mind containing Corletto et al, but they might get there.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 11434
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by Old Man on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:14 pm

The Argentinian squad at the RWC was overplayed and fatigued.

This Argentinian team was well rested, highly motivated, passionate and showed intensity.

Old Man

Posts : 1000
Join date : 2019-08-27

Pal Joey likes this post

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:41 pm

ebop wrote:‘Aura’

The ABs have lost their ‘aura’

Does any other team have this thing called ‘aura’

Serious queston
No they don't hence why the AB brand is so strong in comparison to everyone else in rugby. It's the reason why even the Maori ABs can attract big crowds in places like North and South America, the AB brand is build around being the most dominant team and the team everyone wants to beat. However the more they lose the more their "aura" starts to dissipate and they really have lost quite a few games now since 2015.  The more they lose the more the brand gets weakened and all of a sudden, who knows the ABs can't charge their appearance fees up north leading to decreased revenue and more players lost up north.

LeinsterFan4life

Posts : 5382
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 30
Location : Meath

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Tue 17 Nov 2020, 7:18 pm

ebop wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
ebop wrote:‘Aura’

The ABs have lost their ‘aura’

Does any other team have this thing called ‘aura’

Serious queston

Hehehehe. Here he is.
Who do you support again, I forget, just for the record

Bournemouth FC.

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Tue 17 Nov 2020, 7:20 pm

Old Man wrote:The Argentinian squad at the RWC was overplayed and fatigued.

This Argentinian team was well rested, highly motivated, passionate and showed intensity.

True, but they also had Michael Cheika. Definitely an underrated coach due to his personality. I'd imagine most people up here would think Stuart Lancaster is a 'better' coach - primarily because of culture and personality biases. Cheika's clearly not the full package and had run his course with the Wallabies but given how poor Argentina were under Ledesma, I'd put as much stock in Cheika coming in and adding focus and direction to a team that looked hopeless as much as any sort of rest break.

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Tue 17 Nov 2020, 7:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Yeah I think it's fair to say that the aura from 5 years ago has well and truly gone.

To get beaten by that Argentinian team, considering where it's been pre-lockdown, is a shocker.

I dunno I think its been coming for a while, this is a good Argentina side and they have had some close encounters with NZ in recent years. Id say they would beat any team if they played them as much as they play NZ now.

Really? You saw this coming?! Argentina have been absolutely she-height for 2-3 years now. They pushed a dog turd NZ team in a world cup warm up but then bottled it at the last minute. I can't say I saw a win coming in this particular game given how much rugby each side has played. Not at all.

Yes, thought they would beat them in last years rugby championship, they lost by 4 points. The previous 3 or 4 rugby championship games were all tight enough games with NZ always pulling away in the last quarter.

The Jaguares have also got wins, including away wins against all NZ super rugby sides except the Crusaders who they lost to last season on the final. Argentina have exceptionally talented players who I believed would be good enough to beat NZ and were building towards it. Away wins v Australia and SA in recent years also hinted at what they were capable of

Fair enough, but that was still a bin juice NZ side they failed to beat last year. I can't say I saw that win coming, not like that, and I find it odd anyone else could. The Jaguares playing well has coincided almost perfectly with the Pumas' decline so, again, I wouldn't really call that a positive 'sign', either.

Let us know next time you see such a shock result like this coming!

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 18 Nov 2020, 3:37 pm

Im not sure I would say the Pumas were in decline although yeah on paper they didn't have their best year last year if you look at results alone. In the rugby championship Argentina lost all games but the ones v Australia and NZ were 1 score games and very competitive. Don't agree it was a bad NZ side.

In the world cup they lost their first game by 2 points to a decent France team and then got a red card in their key group game v England and their chances were over before they started.

To be honest I think SA were arguably just as bad as the Pumas for the four years preceding the RWC and they went on to win it. Their win loss rate was only a little better.

This Argentina has a top quality first squad of players, however, their pool of top professionals isn't as good as most sides so their form is always going to be a bit up and down.

Any team as good as Argentina that plays NZ every year will eventually beat them so its hardly a massive shock. Their first ever game v NZ was only in 1985, they when from playing them 13 times in the following 20 years to 18 times in 10 years when they joined the rugby championship. Ireland for example have played NZ the same amount as Argentina over 100 years rather than 30.

A side as good as Argentina it was always going to come.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Wed 18 Nov 2020, 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Collapse2005

Posts : 4950
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by Old Man on Wed 18 Nov 2020, 3:51 pm

South Africa under Coetzee was pants. His win rate was the lowest of any Bok coach in the professional era.

Rassie took over in 2018 and only won 50% of his matches in 2018, but everyone of those games bar one was within a score.

In 2019 he lost one and drew one, the rest is history.

Old Man

Posts : 1000
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 18 Nov 2020, 6:24 pm

Old Man wrote:South Africa under Coetzee was pants. His win rate was the lowest of any Bok coach in the professional era.

Rassie took over in 2018 and only won 50% of his matches in 2018, but everyone of those games bar one was within a score.

In 2019 he lost one and drew one, the rest is history.

Yeah SA always more or less have the players so no one was overly surprised when they turned it around. Likewise albeit obviously to a lesser extent in my opinion Argentina have class players too so Im not surprised that they with a good coaching group can get big results too.

Kramer, Sanchez and Matero get all the headlines because they are class but I was personally delighted for Francisco Gomez Kodela because of the job he did in the front row and because I know his brother.

Collapse2005

Posts : 4950
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Wed 18 Nov 2020, 7:29 pm

It wasn't just last year, Argentina were much weaker from the end of 2015-2019 than they were from 2011-2015. This is a surprise result for sure - not because they aren't good players, but because they had been underperforming for so long.

All reports are Ledesma is more of a man manager and a bit of a nasty one at that. Not much of a tactical genius. I'm surprised he's head coach. Cheika's similar but a much better manager of players and, frankly, has a good track record across the world. He might not be a tactical genius but he's at least astute and having the freedom to observe the ABs play Australia over the last few weeks evidently identified weaknesses in the ABs team and exploited them. That wasn't particularly hard to see from the outside, NZ seem to have learned nothing from the last 3 years of underperformance/poor results by their standards. Getting results is a different matter from just seeing and talking about those weaknesses though, so fair play to everyone involved.

It's good to have Argentina and France looking like they're at least back to par again, but I don't want to speak too soon about the Pumas. Shame that Wales have decided to trade places with them as persistent underperformers.

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by rugby racing and beer on Wed 18 Nov 2020, 7:32 pm

In all fairness the starting 15 for the 16-20 game last year wasn't that bad, it was the bench that was bin juice for NZ. That was my abiding memory of them camped on their own line in the dying minutes: the game was there for the taking against a scratch NZ team but they failed to take it.

Subs

16 Liam Coltman
17 Atunaisa Moli
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Jackson Hemopo
20 Luke Jacobsen
21 Brad Weber
22 Josh Ioane
23 Braydon Ennor

rugby racing and beer

Posts : 827
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games) - Page 3 Empty Re: Australia & NZ: The Antipodean Rugby Thread (including Bledisloe games)

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum