Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

First topic message reminder :

The new season starts next weekend. What are people's hopes and expectations?

Wasps look better now that their gameplan is not just "give it to Barbary "

Capstick is having a good game for Exter on the flank. Doing huge amount of disrupting work.

and right on cue he gets binned...

Just catching up. Hodges first touch was quite good as well desperate last ditch tap tackle stopping him from scoring. Healey picking up on the similarities in his running style to Balshaw as well now.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just catching up. Hodges first touch was quite good as well desperate last ditch tap tackle stopping him from scoring. Healey picking up on the similarities in his running style to Balshaw as well now.

Has got a style that is quicker than it looks. Twice knocking on after contact isn't what Baxter will be wanting to see though. Shame he didn't go for the early dive as it was probably wet enough for him to slide over.

Hodge is only about 12 stone and well over 6 foot so he will take time adjusting to senior rugby. Going by club stats he's a similar weight to Randall and Vellacott!

Hugely talented and his break that almost created a try from nowhere was a good glimpse of it.

Solid performance by Wasps & agree with Blackett it was built on the forwards & a solid defence.
Fingers crossed we will see Fekitoa & Barbeary supplementing this side in the future.

Hes going to be class. His frame looks as if he'll be able to out some timber on but tonnes of potential.

Hodge will put some muscle on...Baxter is good at that...

king_carlos wrote:Hodge is only about 12 stone and well over 6 foot so he will take time adjusting to senior rugby. Going by club stats he's a similar weight to Randall and Vellacott!

Hugely talented and his break that almost created a try from nowhere was a good glimpse of it.

Probably why we haven't seen more of him so far. Must be the only person in memory to live in the north east and not find it easy to put on weight. He's at a prime age to start building some muscle on and it's always easier to do that from a lean base as opposed to lose fat and replace it with muscle. As you say the ability to stroll past defenders and open up a defence us what you want to see.

The ending to the Gloucester game was farcical there. Some moron of a water boy blatantly cheating by reaching over a hoarding to grab the ball so Twelvetrees can't take a quick lineout, 36 understandably (though rashly) shoves the water boy out the way and pretty much a 30 man brawl broke out.

The end result was a penalty and yellow card against Twelvetrees but for a such a vital moment in the game to be intentionally and knowingly affected by a member of the Sale backroom staff to have no repercussion would feel very harsh on Gloucester. Surely at least a fine coming Sale's way for something like 'gamesmanship' or to put it another way cheating.

The ending to the Gloucester game was farcical there. Some moron of a water boy blatantly cheating by reaching over a hoarding to grab the ball so Twelvetrees can't take a quick lineout, 36 understandably (though rashly) shoves the water boy out the way and pretty much a 30 man brawl broke out.

The end result was a penalty and yellow card against Twelvetrees but for a such a vital moment in the game to be intentionally and knowingly affected by a member of the Sale backroom staff to have no repercussion would feel very harsh on Gloucester. Surely at least a fine coming Sale's way for something like 'gamesmanship' or to put it another way cheating.

Twelvetrees nearly put him in the stand and the water carrier was sent from pitch side. I expect he'll be in bother for that and should be there was absolutely no call for it. Firstly because I don't think the quick throw was on.

36 will likely get cited and cop a short ban but if nothing gets done about blatant, cynical interference from back room staff to change the game then it's just asking for the same to happen again in a higher profile game. It's not like the guy was stood pitch side and the ball rolled into him, he reached over an advertising board to grab the ball. Only reason he'd bother doing it is to stop the quick throw. Stupid from 36 but blatant cheating from the water carrier.

I think that whole Gloucester-Sale match was chippy at the minimum.  Players diving over the top almost at will, bizarre interpretations at the scrum, and a clear (to me) shoulder to the back of the head of the Gloucester 13 by the Sale 8 as the Gloucester player was being tackled.  The Sale 8 had one arm up but still a clear shoulder to the back of the head, which to me is automatic red.  By that point (72 minutes) both teams had their blood up.  It was clear watching it, and the ref should have laid the leather on both teams.  

No excuse for the water carrier to reach over the barrier and grab the ball making it dead when it would have been a Gloucester lineout.  He was rightly kicked off the pitch by the ref.  Twelvetrees was given a yellow for pushing the water carrier, but to me, should have been red for making contact with a non-combatant.  Then Curry comes in and hits Twelvetrees in the back and I think he should receive a yellow.  It was after all that when all heck broke out.  Further review may cite more players, but certainly a few need time off, as in three to four weeks.  I also blame the ref.

The head shot to Chris Harris was should have been a straight red no doubt and the ref never even reviewed it!

Hopefully the citing official will pick it up, it was well highlighted by the commentators.

Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

Couldn't believe they didn't review the Dan du Preez tackle. I'm unsure of where the initial contact was but would have been pretty straightforward for the TMO to go frame by frame and figure that out. It was a fairly obvious thing to review.

Mikey, Rowlands did play well. The Wasps tactical choice to keep the physicality of Rowlands and Launchbury at lock for scrum and rolling maul defence but to select Gaskell over a flanker to give them a better lineout defensive jumper was very astute and worked just as they must have hoped. Wasps took away the normal Exeter set piece dominance and Chiefs just couldn't get a foothold up front. Chiefs were missing more than half their starting pack but it's still an impressive display by Wasps who really did a number on them.

Sale got away with a shoulder to the head against LI too - very poor officiating

mikey_dragon wrote:Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

Haha...don't be touchy Mikey. Rowlands is decent English lock....there's bags of these in the Premiership. It's a big position of strength for us, probably our biggest, Rowlands wouldn't get mentioned in a top 10 if I'm honest, but this doesn't make him a bad player and one that shouldn't go on and have a good international career.

Good luck to the lad.

mikey_dragon wrote:Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

If you feel the need to point out every time he has a decent game, you are kind of proving a point! I mean Michael Le Bourgeois and Josh Bassett had decent games too, doesn't mean they are suddenly likely excel at international level (although Bassett probably wouldn't embarrass himself).

I agree with Sarge, Rowlands is a very decent club player and will hold his own at international level, but still wouldn't have troubled the England selectors if he was available. No hate here, just reality.

Heaf wrote:Sale got away with a shoulder to the head against LI too - very poor officiating

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrBooth7/status/1345436009438310400

So did Glaws. The TMO must have been to busy keeping warm to do his job last night.

Cumbrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

If you feel the need to point out every time he has a decent game, you are kind of proving a point!  I mean Michael Le Bourgeois and Josh Bassett had decent games too, doesn't mean they are suddenly likely excel at international level (although Bassett probably wouldn't embarrass himself).

I agree with Sarge, Rowlands is a very decent club player and will hold his own at international level, but still wouldn't have troubled the England selectors if he was available. No hate here, just reality.

Yet this place remains a Launchbury love-in... You guys overrate your lock depth for starters. I agree there are some good England locks but you're not filling every club and other nations with starting lock forwards like SA do. Once that happens then you can talk about depth.

I'm just calling it how I see it. Ribbans and Rowlands have been two of the best locks playing in England for a while now, yet only one of them gets hated on.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

If you feel the need to point out every time he has a decent game, you are kind of proving a point!  I mean Michael Le Bourgeois and Josh Bassett had decent games too, doesn't mean they are suddenly likely excel at international level (although Bassett probably wouldn't embarrass himself).

I agree with Sarge, Rowlands is a very decent club player and will hold his own at international level, but still wouldn't have troubled the England selectors if he was available. No hate here, just reality.

Yet this place remains a Launchbury love-in...   You guys overrate your lock depth for starters. I agree there are some good England locks but you're not filling every club and other nations with starting lock forwards like SA do. Once that happens then you can talk about depth.

I'm just calling it how I see it. Ribbans and Rowlands have been two of the best locks playing in England for a while now, yet only one of them gets hated on.

That's because Rowlands was rank average before last season. The introduction of Richard Blaze as forwards coach at Wasps has seen him step up a level and Launchbury refind his best form. I thought Launchbury was pretty lucky to go to the world cup and was drifting out the reckoning until post Covid when Wasps were suddenly flying and he and Rowlands were at the heart of everything. Stooke is being lined up to replace Rowlands and I expect he'll have a similar impact with Blaze looking to bring him back to his best, I don't think he's been capped by England but has been in England squads, if Wales can find a tenuous link he could be another possible 'find'.

Ribbans has been very good for some time. Has been a little patchy in form recently but that's probably because Saints are struggling.

You won't see many English locks going elsewhere because the money is here. Parling and Kruis have/are having trips in Japan (Parling went on to Australia and is now in their international coaching set up) and Charlie Matthews is over in France I believe. Rowlands is obviously joining Williams, Tomkins, Sheedy and Moriarty in filling out the Welsh squad having come through the English system.

If you give most English club fans a choice of three locks from the Prem for their team I doubt Rowlands will make any and Launchbury very few (unless they are Wasps fans).

mikey_dragon wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

If you feel the need to point out every time he has a decent game, you are kind of proving a point!  I mean Michael Le Bourgeois and Josh Bassett had decent games too, doesn't mean they are suddenly likely excel at international level (although Bassett probably wouldn't embarrass himself).

I agree with Sarge, Rowlands is a very decent club player and will hold his own at international level, but still wouldn't have troubled the England selectors if he was available. No hate here, just reality.

Yet this place remains a Launchbury love-in...   You guys overrate your lock depth for starters. I agree there are some good England locks but you're not filling every club and other nations with starting lock forwards like SA do. Once that happens then you can talk about depth.

I'm just calling it how I see it. Ribbans and Rowlands have been two of the best locks playing in England for a while now, yet only one of them gets hated on.

Neither of them gets hated on Mikey. We just think that Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Launchbury, Hill and Ewels are all better players. The first four in particular are massively better.

I'd rate Rowland's on par with the Saints pair of Ribbans and Moon. Difference being though that those two Saints locks are 4 and 5 years younger respectively so have much more time and scope to keep developing. Rowland's is only a few months younger than Laucnbury and Jake Ball. He's not a young whipper snapper who is going to improve much more.

Once Sarries come back up to the Premiership I'd expect Joel Kpoku to float around England training squads as an 'apprentice player' as well.

The England vs Wales game summed up Rowland's well in my opinion. He didn't do anything wrong but was pretty much anonymous for half an hour after coming on against an England side with two Lions locks unavailable in Kruis and Lawes. I didn't think Jonny Hill had the best Autumn but still thought he was more prominent in his 15 minutes off the bench that game.

Good club player but at nearly 30 years old he isn't going to develop into a Luke Charteris style lineout operator who can make 20 tackles a game.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Another good game from Rowlands, another one. Bring on the English haters .

If you feel the need to point out every time he has a decent game, you are kind of proving a point!  I mean Michael Le Bourgeois and Josh Bassett had decent games too, doesn't mean they are suddenly likely excel at international level (although Bassett probably wouldn't embarrass himself).

I agree with Sarge, Rowlands is a very decent club player and will hold his own at international level, but still wouldn't have troubled the England selectors if he was available. No hate here, just reality.

Yet this place remains a Launchbury love-in...   You guys overrate your lock depth for starters. I agree there are some good England locks but you're not filling every club and other nations with starting lock forwards like SA do. Once that happens then you can talk about depth.

I'm just calling it how I see it. Ribbans and Rowlands have been two of the best locks playing in England for a while now, yet only one of them gets hated on.

 You realise Launchbury won MOTM yesterday, whilst you were obsessing about Rowlands?!

As it goes I agree that South Africa have the best depth at lock in the world, there is no shame in being second to that. We do our fair share to spread the  love around too mind. Over the last 3-4 years Wales, Scotland, Italy and Ireland have all benefited (to varying degrees) from locks who have been born and raised in England or come through our system.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Heaf wrote:Sale got away with a shoulder to the head against LI too - very poor officiating

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrBooth7/status/1345436009438310400

So did Glaws. The TMO must have been to busy keeping warm to do his job last night.

Indeed it seems like a bit of a lottery these days with the same types of incidents ranging from not even a penalty to a red card ...

I think that Obano try sums up being a Tigers fan for the last few year... 

Things are not getting any better for Leicester!

That was dire. 5 missed tackles on Mercer then no guard at the ruck. Very good finish from Spencer but just abject defense.

BigGee wrote:Things are not getting any better for Leicester!

Not likely to. Barely been any training for the last two weeks because of a Covid outbreak. At least 5 starters unavailable because of Covid and our head coach not been around to oversee it all either.

Tigers just don't look organised. Attack looks meh. Van Wyk's a liability on the wing. Two unnecessary tries gifted to Bath.

Jesus. Twenty minutes in, the only thing Tigers have done is kick the ball away to manufacture lineouts which we lose.

king_carlos wrote:Jesus. Twenty minutes in, the only thing Tigers have done is kick the ball away to manufacture lineouts which we lose.

Much vaunted Bath scrum is taking a kicking though.

Early days. Genge was virtually driving at 90 deg angle

Watson is looking very sharp in attack.

Yeah Cole is on top against Obano for sure. Stuart and Genge seems more even but the calls going Gengey's way.

6 - 14 is more than Tigers deserve here. Just got to hang in.

Martin is playing very well which is good to see.

Matt Scott lucky there, seen yellows given for that

That was a good try

Matt Scott partially redeemed himself and what a break from Genge

Poetry in motion from Genge! Very nice score.

14-13 bath, that is hardly reflective of the game so far

Out of nowhere. The right call from Youngs to tap and go, put some pace on the ball. Hopefully we see more of it.

The line from Genge was excellent.

I'd be tempted to give that ball to Steward and have a pot at goal. Very good kick to touch from Ford though.

If Tigers can actually win a lineout...

I'd be tempted to give that ball to Steward and have a pot at goal. Very good kick to touch from Ford though.

If Tigers can actually win a lineout...

Good break by Genge. Impressed with Steward at FB.

For all the howlers going on for Leicester, that young FB is having a fantastic game. He really is one to watch.

Harsh call on Ford at the ruck I'd say.

Steward looks a future international for sure. His basics are just so good for a fullback. He can kick goals from his own half as well.

king_carlos wrote:Harsh call on Ford at the ruck I'd say.

Steward looks a future international for sure. His basics are just so good for a fullback. He can kick goals from his own half as well.

That double movement is about the first mistake he has made

Very harsh on Ford. I think Barnes expected him to seal off so gave it before having a proper look.

Underhill very lucky not to be in the bin there was no arms shoulder in his defence on Nadolo when Tigers were attacking the 22. No idea what the TMO was looking at.

What a clear out from Nandolo, he shifted the whole Bath pack by himself!

17-16 Bath at HT

Leicester have definitely come back into this game

That was a super kick from Ford at the end there.