"Game of the Year" - England vs Ireland - ANC round 2

First topic message reminder :

Eddie Jones thought he'd ramp up the pressure on his own team in advance of England playing Ireland next weekend in the ANC by declaring it the game of the year.  Nobody took him too seriously but he does like to give the media a soundbite or two to keep them happy.  No doubt, he'll be saying the same thing when his team travel across the country to play Wales.   And, in playing the winners of Pool B in the final game of this Autumn Nations Cup.

The latest rugby broadcaster, Amazon Prime, has already scheduled the England playoff final match on its own at Sunday lunchtime on 6 Dec in Twickenham.  They know which side their financial bread is buttered, even if they don't know where Northern Ireland is.

Before then, however, England have a little job to do.  They played against and with Georgia at the weekend, with the Georgians supposed ace in the scrum turning out to be less than anticipated.    Job done and 5 points in the bank.  

Andy Farrell is the one with more work to do with his team being royally spanked in the last few tests against England.   the English have the pack-power to put paid to Ireland before a pass even reaches their backline.   So can Farrell change that with selection policy or different game plan.  

Against Wales, Ireland were missing normal first-teamers Furlong, Henderson, Leavy, Stander, Aki, Ringrose, Stockdale and Larmour.   They weren't missed.   Ireland  can expect to have Stander and Aki available for Twickenham and assuming the medical illnesses that prevented Stockdale and Henderson from playing against Wales will have abated in time to allow them join the squad.

Whilst it might seem obvious that Henderson would start if available, Quinn Roux, probably for the first time since he arrived on a trial year at Leinster in 2012, managed to demonstrate to a lot of Irish fans that he might actually be useful and worth selecting.  Originally picked by Schmidt specifically as a tighthead lock on their SA tour in 2016, Roux had only gained a dozen caps before starting against Wales.   He provided the needed ballast for Porter at scrum time, and made himself a nuisance in the loose and useful in carrying including getting the first try.    Does he get to start again and displace the incumbent?

Conor Murray might be another to look to his laurels when he saw the pace that Jamison Gibson Park instilled into proceedings right from kick-off to the final whilst.   Andy Farrell might see him as a useful 9/10 to bring off the bench.

Elsewhere, Stockdale will likely be brought back in, although Farrell might prefer him on the wing with Keenan seeming more assured at full-back.

And in midfield, is Aki an automatic pick at 12 with either Henshaw (27) or Chris Farrell (27) as his partner?   Aki will be nearing 31 at end of next Six Nations - is he likely to be first pick when he's 33.5 years of age by the time of RWC 2023?  Or does Farrell need to make more room/time for others including Ringrose, McCloskey, and possibly 1 or 2 others?

Caelan Doris is making the No 8 position his own with each passing game, but it may be too early to omit Stander from the backrow equation.   Does POM get dropped to the bench again to make way?

Eddie Jones will already be plotting another Ireland downfall.   Will he go for pack power again combined with the accurate England kicking game, or does he have another few tricks up his sleeve?

Plenty to chat about, particularly once the team announcements come in.

Ireland Match Day 23
H Keenan; K Earls, C Farrell, B Aki, J Lowe; R Byrne, J Gibson-Park; C Healy, R Kelleher, A Porter; Q Roux, J Ryan (capt); CJ Stander, P O'Mahony, C Doris.
Reps: R Herring, E Byrne, F Bealham, I Henderson, W Connors, C Murray, B Burns, J Stockdale

England Squad
Elliot Daly Owen Farrell George Ford Jonathan Joseph Ollie Lawrence Max Malins Jonny MayDan Robson Henry Slade Ollie Thorley Ben Youngs
Tom Curry Tom Dunn Ben Earl Ellis Genge Jamie George Jonny Hill Maro Itoje Joe Launchbury Lewis Ludlam Kyle Sinckler Will Stuart Sam Underhill Billy Vunipola Mako Vunipola

rugby racing and beer wrote:

lostinwales wrote:May scored two and saved one. Lawrence has been looking good. Lots more running from England and everything looks better

And there you go. Underhill done for the same as GP.

It's not the same at all. Are you just lying for the sake of it...!?! Haha. Geez.

Ha ha geez? How old are you? He made the tackle and was then penalised for handling the ball. GP was the same.

Soul Requiem wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:

lostinwales wrote:May scored two and saved one. Lawrence has been looking good. Lots more running from England and everything looks better

And there you go. Underhill done for the same as GP.

It's not the same at all. Are you just lying for the sake of it...!?! Haha. Geez.

Just do one, you boring sod.

No. This site might have become a hive of trolling and bullying, but letting the likes of you bully because someone has a matter of opinion just isn't an option. Reported.

Dominant half from England. Curry and Underhill sensational at the breakdown. Two bits of brilliant play from May. Scrum clearly on top. Should be comfortable from here.

lostinwales wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:

lostinwales wrote:May scored two and saved one. Lawrence has been looking good. Lots more running from England and everything looks better

And there you go. Underhill done for the same as GP.

It's not the same at all. Are you just lying for the sake of it...!?! Haha. Geez.

Ha ha geez? How old are you? He made the tackle and was then penalised for handling the ball. GP was the same.

Happy for this to become a long, pointless discussion which eventually devolves in to personal insults after the game, but for now it's really simply - Gibson Park was the second player to Itoje, and didn't tackle, his knees were already on the floor i.e. he is tackled. Underhill is the one who tackled Gibson-Park. It's not the same. It's quite literally not the same.

Tough game for Ireland so far. Tackling from england is just stopping them dead (Lawrence doing v well) the setpiece is wobbling. The only thing going for them is that they could be down by more.

rugby racing and beer wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:

lostinwales wrote:May scored two and saved one. Lawrence has been looking good. Lots more running from England and everything looks better

And there you go. Underhill done for the same as GP.

It's not the same at all. Are you just lying for the sake of it...!?! Haha. Geez.

Just do one, you boring sod.

No. This site might have become a hive of trolling and bullying, but letting the likes of you bully because someone has a matter of opinion just isn't an option. Reported.

Well if you stopped trolling and bullying this site would be a nicer place

Ireland must be pushing a yellow too if they continue to impede mauls illegally.

Ireland need to just hold on to the ball. It's their best form of defence as much as anything else.

The game itself feels totally different without fans. The jeopardy and pressure just isn't the same, players look more relaxed, happier to try things out, and that's helping England - Ireland unable to maintain their pressure through phases but that's what they have to do. Keep the ball away from set piece as much as possible, keep the ball, and look to attack England with kicks once the opportunity arises.

lostinwales wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:

lostinwales wrote:May scored two and saved one. Lawrence has been looking good. Lots more running from England and everything looks better

And there you go. Underhill done for the same as GP.

It's not the same at all. Are you just lying for the sake of it...!?! Haha. Geez.

Just do one, you boring sod.

No. This site might have become a hive of trolling and bullying, but letting the likes of you bully because someone has a matter of opinion just isn't an option. Reported.

Well if you stopped trolling and bullying this site would be a nicer place

You're clearly confused, but that's ok.

From Ireland's point of view I think Lowe looks very useful but the other backs have been quiet.

Feel a little sorry for Earls. Going for the kick through then seeing Billy about to smash him.

Ireland are utter gash.
We've not been this clueless since the last embarrassing days of the gobshoyte Decky Kidney.
England have been excellent and aren't allowing Leinster....I mean Ireland to play but in all honesty, Ireland don't have much to offer anyway which makes England's job look so easy.

England’s defensive work is top notch.

I can’t pretend I was looking forward to England v Wales next week, but I’m even more nervous now.

The good thing about England in attack is that we are not seeing Farrell involved so much. Ball going out faster.

Genge and Stuart must be licking their lips for the second half. And if the game starts to break up a bit, Robson is perfect to capitalise on any open spaces.

Curry, Underhill, Itoje and Launchbury have been superb for England. And Jonny May - welcome back!

Ireland have tried but they just don't seem to have a plan B for the hefty defece and the tackle/jackle England have in place. I expect a couple more tries early doors in the 2nd half.

Pete330v2 wrote:Ireland are utter gash.
We've not been this clueless since the last embarrassing days of the gobshoyte Decky Kidney.
England have been excellent and aren't allowing Leinster....I mean Ireland to play but in all honesty, Ireland don't have much to offer anyway which makes England's job look so easy.

Rugby without fans has seen it go back to something we saw 20ish years ago, which is a wrestle up front in the forwards and not much in the way of tactics.

It's no surprise that something like May's raw pace is so profitable because that's the sort of thing that decides games/is the difference.

I think it shows where teams are, their 'level' so to speak. I'm not sure why the NH seems so much more susceptible to this than down in the SH, where this really hasn't happened - but then I suppose there are at least some fans at those games.

More than that, I think what we usually see in the 6Ns is the consequence of pressure and when Ireland manage to put pressure on teams, they're very good at it. They just cannot do it v England and England look comfortable with the physical contest that in other years they've struggled with v Ireland's accuracy.

Having no fans also definitely helps poaching - hearing refs calls to get out/release. It also seems to be encouraging Underhill and Curry to challenge and they're succcessful almost every time they do challenge.

The most worrying aspect is Ireland's lineout falling to pieces. The scrum is the scrum, but the lineout? Ireland should be looking at that and asking big questions about what's going wrong.

lostinwales wrote:The good thing about England in attack is that we are not seeing Farrell involved so much. Ball going out faster.

Very structured so far. Wonder if Jones will think to cut loose in the last 20?

Daly continues to be a worry when contesting high balls for me. Would like to see Malins on and daly moving to the wing.

18-0 Ireland, its a long way back for them now

Is Mako the world's oldest looking 29 year old??

Mr Bounce wrote:Is Mako the world's oldest looking 29 year old??

He looked like that at 21!

The Irish lads are going have some bruises tomorrow...these tackles are brutal...

I bet you Cooney is glad he wasn't picked now. Gibson Park has been poor but the pack has been absolutely smashed

Mr Bounce wrote:Is Mako the world's oldest looking 29 year old??

I really love props like Mako and Dan Cole who look as knackered at the first break in play as they do at 70-odd minutes.

A friend early in the game referred to Mako's tired look but constant work rate as inexhaustible exhaustion. 

Great ball from Slade to Joseph. That's what we need to see more of from Slade.

It leads to a turnover though, good work from Doris.

Time for subs from England I think. They are looking a touch more ragged after a very intense effort over the first 60 minutes.

What's youngs doing. Ball sat in an unguarded ruck leads them to a defensive lineout. Then leaving the ball in the maul when it looked odds on to be turned over.

Great defence though. Dominant quick tackles.

Worth pointing out how good Underhill has been, and what Willis needs to do to get past him

Immense defence from England

What do Ireland have to do, they are playing better now, but still making no progress

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's youngs doing. Ball sat in an unguarded ruck leads them to a defensive lineout. Then leaving the ball in the maul when it looked odds on to be turned over.

The ruck was clever work from Ireland clearing beyond the ball to knock Youngs out the way I think, though didn't catch the replay.

Keeping the ball in mauls without it transferred to the back is something England do a bit. I commented earlier in the thread when some backs joined an attacking lineout on the 5m line and we got turned over.

Perhaps a calculated gamble that Jones is happy to take with the chance of a England penalty coming if it keeps moving forward offsetting the chance of a opposition scrum if turned over. It's a risk England take fairly often though.

Despite the fact the ireland pack has been bullied Ryan has really put his hand up. Hes led well but not many able to follow him, as yet.

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's youngs doing. Ball sat in an unguarded ruck leads them to a defensive lineout. Then leaving the ball in the maul when it looked odds on to be turned over.

The ruck was clever work from Ireland clearing beyond the ball to knock Youngs out the way I think, though didn't catch the replay.

Keeping the ball in mauls without it transferred to the back is something England do a bit. I commented earlier in the thread when some backs joined an attacking lineout on the 5m line and we got turned over.

Perhaps a calculated gamble that Jones is happy to take with the chance of a England penalty coming if it keeps moving forward offsetting the chance of a opposition scrum if turned over. It's a risk England take fairly often though.

Glad Robson came on immediately afterwards anyway.

Ireland really don't want to be nilled, they are showing their pride here

How old is Dan Robson

GeordieFalcon wrote:How old is Dan Robson

28

England going to get a card soon

Should get a warning here

GeordieFalcon wrote:How old is Dan Robson

28

Cracking tackle by Slade there.

Great tackle by Skade there

Fantastic defence all day. Great by earl as well.

That looked like it was kicked dead

Great poaching work by Earl. England needed that. If they didn't get out of their 22 soon there was going to be a try and/or yellow card for repeat offences.

How was Lauchbury not pinged for offside . the ruck had formed and he came in and sealed the ball to stop Farrell dotting the ball down. That is a penalty try and yellow. Not that Ireland deserve it though as they have been truly awful and bullied up front.

Is Genge joing the SoUth West mullet growing fraternity...

Heuer27 wrote:How was Lauchbury not pinged for offside . the ruck had formed and he came in and sealed the ball to stop Farrell dotting the ball down. That is a penalty try and yellow. Not that Ireland deserve it though as they have been truly awful and bullied up front.

For the hold up? Ball was over the line so no offside.

Ben Earl doing alot of good stuff since he came on

Robson all at sea there.

Stockdale scores a brilliant try

Deserved really on the run of play, Ireland deserved something from this game

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ben Earl doing alot of good stuff since he came on

I think he made 3 tackles in 5 phases there. His line speed stands out even in the aggressive English fringe defence.