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"Game of the Year" - England vs Ireland - ANC round 2

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 15 Nov 2020, 11:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Eddie Jones thought he'd ramp up the pressure on his own team in advance of England playing Ireland next weekend in the ANC by declaring it the game of the year.  Nobody took him too seriously but he does like to give the media a soundbite or two to keep them happy.  No doubt, he'll be saying the same thing when his team travel across the country to play Wales.   And, in playing the winners of Pool B in the final game of this Autumn Nations Cup.

The latest rugby broadcaster, Amazon Prime, has already scheduled the England playoff final match on its own at Sunday lunchtime on 6 Dec in Twickenham.  They know which side their financial bread is buttered, even if they don't know where Northern Ireland is.

Before then, however, England have a little job to do.  They played against and with Georgia at the weekend, with the Georgians supposed ace in the scrum turning out to be less than anticipated.    Job done and 5 points in the bank.  

Andy Farrell is the one with more work to do with his team being royally spanked in the last few tests against England.   the English have the pack-power to put paid to Ireland before a pass even reaches their backline.   So can Farrell change that with selection policy or different game plan.  

Against Wales, Ireland were missing normal first-teamers Furlong, Henderson, Leavy, Stander, Aki, Ringrose, Stockdale and Larmour.   They weren't missed.   Ireland  can expect to have Stander and Aki available for Twickenham and assuming the medical illnesses that prevented Stockdale and Henderson from playing against Wales will have abated in time to allow them join the squad.

Whilst it might seem obvious that Henderson would start if available, Quinn Roux, probably for the first time since he arrived on a trial year at Leinster in 2012, managed to demonstrate to a lot of Irish fans that he might actually be useful and worth selecting.  Originally picked by Schmidt specifically as a tighthead lock on their SA tour in 2016, Roux had only gained a dozen caps before starting against Wales.   He provided the needed ballast for Porter at scrum time, and made himself a nuisance in the loose and useful in carrying including getting the first try.    Does he get to start again and displace the incumbent?

Conor Murray might be another to look to his laurels when he saw the pace that Jamison Gibson Park instilled into proceedings right from kick-off to the final whilst.   Andy Farrell might see him as a useful 9/10 to bring off the bench.

Elsewhere, Stockdale will likely be brought back in, although Farrell might prefer him on the wing with Keenan seeming more assured at full-back.

And in midfield, is Aki an automatic pick at 12 with either Henshaw (27) or Chris Farrell (27) as his partner?   Aki will be nearing 31 at end of next Six Nations - is he likely to be first pick when he's 33.5 years of age by the time of RWC 2023?  Or does Farrell need to make more room/time for others including Ringrose, McCloskey, and possibly 1 or 2 others?

Caelan Doris is making the No 8 position his own with each passing game, but it may be too early to omit Stander from the backrow equation.   Does POM get dropped to the bench again to make way?

Eddie Jones will already be plotting another Ireland downfall.   Will he go for pack power again combined with the accurate England kicking game, or does he have another few tricks up his sleeve?

Plenty to chat about, particularly once the team announcements come in.

Ireland Match Day 23
H Keenan; K Earls, C Farrell, B Aki, J Lowe; R Byrne, J Gibson-Park; C Healy, R Kelleher, A Porter; Q Roux, J Ryan (capt); CJ Stander, P O'Mahony, C Doris.
Reps: R Herring, E Byrne, F Bealham, I Henderson, W Connors, C Murray, B Burns, J Stockdale

England Squad
Elliot Daly Owen Farrell George Ford Jonathan Joseph Ollie Lawrence Max Malins Jonny MayDan Robson Henry Slade Ollie Thorley Ben Youngs
Tom Curry Tom Dunn Ben Earl Ellis Genge Jamie George Jonny Hill Maro Itoje Joe Launchbury Lewis Ludlam Kyle Sinckler Will Stuart Sam Underhill Billy Vunipola Mako Vunipola


Last edited by Pot Hale on Thu 19 Nov 2020, 12:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 6:00 pm

king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Ben Earl doing alot of good stuff since he came on
I think he made 3 tackles in 5 phases there. His line speed stands out even in the aggressive English fringe defence.

The back row in general were insanely good yesterday and the fact Earl stood out when he came on speaks volumes. With Curry and Underhill we take those performances for granted but they vindicated Jones and his selection.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 6:19 pm

Willis picked up another motm today as well.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 6:49 pm

...and Brad Shields got injured AGAIN so now he just has to wait for one of the established players to get injured.

Id be surprised if Jones changes the team, he said they would pick their strongest 23 and I cant see that opinion having changed off the back of a solid win. It would be a lot easier for Willis to force his point if the back row weren't proven performers and playing well, but sometimes the door needs to be open for you to knock it down (or something)

Dont think anyone would object to seeing him get the nod but at the same time theres no reason to make the switch. Classic nice problem to have.

Only question I really see is the midfield, and what they do with Ford now he's had another week to get sharp. Lawrence got special mention for his defence by Jones in the post match, and the way he was talking he expects him to get a lot more caps. Could well mean Slade on the bench for Ford, or it may be that Farrell is preferred at 10 for these tests that Jones expect to be forward and kick dominated. Having another player with Mays ability to score tries on his own would be nice, but that has to be balanced up by whats lost in defence and having Farrell at 12 with no running game.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 7:09 pm

What has happend to big( joe cockasigna?) is he injured, self isolating, Not seen anything of him. Does any ony think he has a chance of getting his place back in the squad?
I do not like the idea of Joseph on the wing, Is Nowell injured?

I don't expect many change's for the welsh game to be honest. just like to see a winger on the wing and not some one who is a centre.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 7:11 pm

Gooseberry wrote:...and Brad Shields got injured AGAIN so now he just has to wait for one of the established players to get injured.

Id be surprised if Jones changes the team, he said they would pick their strongest 23 and I cant see that opinion having changed off the back of a solid win. It would be a lot easier for Willis to force his point if the back row weren't proven performers and playing well, but sometimes the door needs to be open for you to knock it down (or something)

Dont think anyone would object to seeing him get the nod but at the same time theres no reason to make the switch. Classic nice problem to have.

Only question I really see is the midfield, and what they do with Ford now he's had another week to get sharp. Lawrence got special mention for his defence by Jones in the post match, and the way he was talking he expects him to get a lot more caps. Could well mean Slade on the bench for Ford, or it may be that Farrell is preferred at 10 for these tests that Jones expect to be forward and kick dominated. Having another player with Mays ability to score tries on his own would be nice, but that has to be balanced up by whats lost in defence and having Farrell at 12 with no running game.

And having someone else at 9.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 7:11 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:What has happend to big( joe cockasigna?) is he injured, self isolating, Not seen anything of him. Does any ony think he has a chance of getting his place back in the squad?
I do not like the idea of Joseph on the wing, Is Nowell injured?

I don't expect many change's for the welsh game to be honest. just like to see a winger on the wing and not some one who is a centre.

Google.co.uk

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 8:26 pm

I watched Quins vs Exeter and wondered why Simmonds or Dombrandt weren’t in the England squad Headscratch. Billy is a class player, doesn’t cause Wales much harm on most occasions though.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 9:33 pm

Yes i have thought that for a long time now.

It would be nice to have class back ups in case of injury,

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 2:32 am

Good game by Ireland given the relative rawness of the side compared to settled England.

Not having 6 or 7 of your regular starters and with some relatively new players and combos, the game went about as well as can be expected in keeping the margin to 11 points.

POM played well and deserved to stay on in the way he chased everything. Burns should probably have come on sooner to set up better scoring chances. The chip kick through was the obvious play but after Lowe' first two poor attempts in the first half, the backline seemed to give them up and attempted battering the English defence instead. Only Earls showed a bit of devil in making some breakthroughs.

Quinn roux proved once again, he's a one-hit wonder and why Leinster let him go after his first season on loan to Connacht. Gibson-Park found out what it was like to be behind a retreating pack and his kicking game went to pieces. Aki continues to learn how to not pass. Hopefully some other members of the squad get used next week with possibly Ryan Baird back in the mix. Will Connors in the backrow. With Marmion at 9. And McCloskey at 12.

It certainly wasn't game of the year as far as Eddie Jones saw it.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 8:54 am

Anyone got the full tackle stats for the match?

After the match they mentioned that the back row between them made 75 tackles and missed none, suggests firstly that Mitchell has done an incredible job but also that Ireland didn't vary their point of attack much if at all.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 10:02 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Anyone got the full tackle stats for the match?

After the match they mentioned that the back row between them made 75 tackles and missed none, suggests firstly that Mitchell has done an incredible job but also that Ireland didn't vary their point of attack much if at all.

I just saw the BBC stats which said England 246 tackles +9 missed. EPSNScrum.com which I usually use has not had stats up on these ANC games

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 10:20 am

Numbers are Tackles Made, Tackles Missed, Turnovers Won:

Elliot Daly 4, 2
Jonathan Joseph 3, 0, 1
Ollie Lawrence 13
Henry Slade 7, 3
Jonny May 5
Owen Farrell 10, 1
Ben Youngs 1, 2
Billy Vunipola 25, 2, 1
Sam Underhill 16, 0, 1
Tom Curry 19, 0, 1
Joe Launchbury 16, 1
Maro Itoje 20, 0, 1
Kyle Sinckler 16
Jamie George 18
Mako Vunipola 15
Tom Dunn
Ellis Genge 3
Will Stuart 2
Jonny Hill 4
Ben Earl 7, 0, 1
Dan Robson 2, 2
George Ford 1
Max Malins 1

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 10:22 am

https://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/match-centre/england-ireland-twickenham-autumn-nations-cup-21112020#stats

So, by my reckoning the 4 back rowers made 77 tackles, missed 2 and secured 4 turnovers.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 10:46 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Anyone got the full tackle stats for the match?

After the match they mentioned that the back row between them made 75 tackles and missed none, suggests firstly that Mitchell has done an incredible job but also that Ireland didn't vary their point of attack much if at all.

In fairness Ireland made defending against them a doddle on saturday doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result, reverse gear.
It took Billy Burns to come on and demonstrate to Ross Byrne how to unlock a blitz defence with his short kicking game that he displays for Ulster week in, week out but only when needed.

How do you take what is ostensibly the Leinster 1st XV + guests and turn them into that dirge of rugby. I'm beginning to think Andy Farrell and Mike Catt are RFU plants. Wink

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 10:51 am

Jamie George really is a top class player isnt he.

Looks like an old school front rower, hits his lineouts, scrumages hard, scores hattricks and puts in 18 tackle shifts. He doesnt get enough praise...

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 10:52 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jamie George really is a top class player isnt he.

Looks like an old school front rower, hits his lineouts, scrumages hard, scores hattricks and puts in 18 tackle shifts. He doesnt get enough praise...

Pretty sure he also received more passes on the left wing than Jonny May.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 11:26 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Jamie George really is a top class player isnt he.

Looks like an old school front rower, hits his lineouts, scrumages hard, scores hattricks and puts in 18 tackle shifts. He doesnt get enough praise...

Pretty sure he also received more passes on the left wing than Jonny May.

See, he's intelligent aswell..has a rugby brain! Wink

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 11:31 am

And, as teh Munster doctor will tell you, he can provide the answer to that eternal question "Who ate all the pies?".

My favourite thing about George is that he looks like a proper hooker (rugby variety) as opposed to the Dimitri Szarzewski's of this world who are far more reminiscent of the Bois de Boulogne style hooker.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 23 Nov 2020, 11:38 am

Laugh

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Post by dummy_half on Tue 24 Nov 2020, 2:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:And, as teh Munster doctor will tell you, he can provide the answer to that eternal question "Who ate all the pies?".

My favourite thing about George is that he looks like a proper hooker (rugby variety) as opposed to the Dimitri Szarzewski's of this world who are far more reminiscent of the Bois de Boulogne style hooker.

Agreed, even a blind man wouldn't pay good money for personal time with Jamie George Wink . Turned out to be a pretty good player though.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 24 Nov 2020, 2:42 pm

Jamie George AKA the human ice cream  Laugh

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