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Le Winner Tales It All - England vs France

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 6:58 am

First topic message reminder :

The Guardian throws up some interesting points of discussion that have been touched upon already elsewhere. The positives first are that there will be 2000 fans in the stadium at the weekend:plenty of room to spread out but an important step back to normality. It also allows england the chance on some revenge for the 6 nations defeat and to lift some silverware. Despite overall feeling we've missed the chance to create depth in some key areas I think Jones has used these games pretty well. Genge has had some good performances, itoje and Launchbury have to me shown they can work effectively together, Willis and Earl have mins on the pitch, Lawrence looks set for a good career. Hell even if I dont think it's worked Joseph has proved he can cover wing (played there previously for england I know) though hopefully only for emergencies and we know conclusively Furbank isnt good enough.

That leads onto the negative. The balance between club and country has led France to agree to only play players 3 times over the course of these matches. It leave the final now a bit of an imbalance as France for some reason prioritised games over england meaning guys like Dupont and Vakatawa are unavailable. Perhaps they figured may as well let the media hype of 'France are back' reign on rather than risk a massacre at Twickenham. Its shame for the fans (and Amazon the poor multi billion company) but I'm looking forward to it anyway. There will still be fireworks from them I'm sure and in guys like Woki they certainly have quality. That guy could be box office, loads of potential with a slight question on his fitness to perform for 80 mins for me.

I suspect that Jones will go for a very strong team again but while his favourite phrase will be we've picked the strongest 23 it clearly leaves room for tinkering. I have a slight feeling that this may be the match he throws Malins a start.

Expecting a great game tbh. England have stuttered so far but easily been on top throughout their matches. Surely this is the game targeted from the off? Allez les rosbifs.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 05 Dec 2020, 1:39 pm

When Genge first came in to the England squad it was clear he had a long way to go to match Mako...but this Autumn series..i think its clear the gap has nearly disappeared.
Makos still ahead ..but Genge is improving rapidly and hes lost that impetuous attitude aswell. Like Sinkler

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Post by lostinwales Sat 05 Dec 2020, 2:05 pm

Mako has been fantastic but I am excited to see what Genge can do given a start.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 05 Dec 2020, 2:11 pm

Mako is a loss for England but Genge is more than capable stand in,
Marler on the bench as well keeps England at full strength.

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Post by Yoda Sat 05 Dec 2020, 5:37 pm

Not a bad replacement a 50 cap Prop in his prime. Watson back on the wing makes a very speedy back three. The French 7s winger is pretty nippy mind and one to watch. Looking forward to the battle of the backrows. The French were getting very cocky against Italy and will need putting down heavily early doors to knock any sense of parity out of them.

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 05 Dec 2020, 6:47 pm

If we know what Genge can do shouldnt we drop him to give someone else a chance?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 8:48 am

Gooseberry wrote:If we know what Genge can do shouldnt we drop him to give someone else a chance?

You fundamentally misunderstand these discussion points.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:00 pm

Woki is class. Just saying now with the hope it jinxes him.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:04 pm

Woki is some size...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:04 pm

Youngs whipping the ball away quickly.....ah no I meant dwelling and getting France a turnover.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:09 pm

That tackle on Raka by Billy was a thing of brutal beauty

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:09 pm

Nice counter ruck by France. Youngs need to get ball away quicker.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:16 pm

Good try

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:17 pm

Good try, France. A punishment for England's lack of ambition.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:17 pm

Worst 3 mins of curry I've ever seen.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:17 pm

Jalibert is really good with quick ball. Some cracking depth for France with Ntamack injured and Carbonel coming through.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:19 pm

Great try by France, England need to pull their sock up and realise this maybe a 2nd string France team but they can play.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:19 pm

Genge with a poor tackle there...Mako doesnt miss those.

France are going to be genuine world cup contenders...

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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:20 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Great try by France, England need to pull their sock up  and realise this maybe a 2nd string France team but they can play.

They can, but I suspect they will burn out later in the game

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:20 pm

About time refs started to notice the blocking from kicks.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:20 pm

Surely he went looking for that?

Hope the ref kept the receipt for that dive he bought
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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:21 pm

I don't think that Pesenti changed his line there. Fortune for England where they needed it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:21 pm

tigertattie wrote:Surely he went looking for that?

Hope the ref kept the receipt for that dive he bought

12 stepped across to block and then the cynical running across. No it's a clear pen.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Surely he went looking for that?

Hope the ref kept the receipt for that dive he bought

12 stepped across to block and then the cynical running across. No it's a clear pen.

12 never touched him though. May went clattering into the lock who was just running back. It was as if May thought “oh, if 12 had hit me I’d have got a penalty, I know, I’ll run into this fella and see what happens”
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:26 pm

12 looked and stepped across his path. Penalty.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:27 pm

Woki starting to cause issues at the lineout.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:29 pm

Should have been a penalty or reset at the least for people up in the scrum before that pen against underhill.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:29 pm

Was that an elbow thrown at Genge?

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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:32 pm

Watson, then Daly and Curry in support did brilliantly to cover that and avoid a turnover or penalty.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:35 pm

Underhill is playing like a man possessed. He’s some player
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Post by TightHEAD Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:35 pm

Shocking from england.
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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:37 pm

England under the cosh at the moment. France really putting England under pressure right now.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:38 pm

Well, I think this is how England looked in the other matches as well. France is attacking well. Let's see how it goes and if England can actually change tactics a bit.........

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:42 pm

OK, that was bad

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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:42 pm

Dire from England.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:42 pm

Oooft that was some on the line defending
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:43 pm

Tmo a bit slower coming forward for the slap in the face to Genge there.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:44 pm

Some defence by France.

But England should be scoring in that position...

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:44 pm

This is horrific from England. The worst half they've had under Jones. Hopefully in the second half they'll try and play some rugby.

Fair play to the French. They're clearly more up for it than England.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:45 pm

Great defence by France.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:48 pm

England need a better performance in the second half if they are going to win this one.

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Post by Scottrf Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:This is horrific from England. The worst half they've had under Jones. Hopefully in the second half they'll try and play some rugby.

Fair play to the French. They're clearly more up for it than England.
Umm England 38-38 Scotland?

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Post by lostinwales Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:50 pm

Not enjoying the England performance but its a great game to watch.

There are some little areas where France are getting the rub of the green. Lineouts are not always the straightest but no question that France were the better team in the first half. England don't seem to be able to put phases together, don't have the invention that Jail bait is bringing today.

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Post by Yoda Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:51 pm

Final wobbles again. 40 mins from choking again. I sincerely hope no one gets hurt when the French coming flying in off their feet in the ruck. Fair few no arm tackles too. Still very poor from England.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:52 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:This is horrific from England. The worst half they've had under Jones. Hopefully in the second half they'll try and play some rugby.

Fair play to the French. They're clearly more up for it than England.
Umm England 38-38 Scotland?

Worse than that. At least Scotland were having the half of their lives. England are getting properly done in by the French third team.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:52 pm

lostinwales wrote:Not enjoying the England performance but its a great game to watch.

There are some little areas where France are getting the rub of the green. Lineouts are not always the straightest but no question that France were the better team in the first half. England don't seem to be able to put phases together, don't have the invention that Jail bait is bringing today.

The 9 10 12 13 for england sucked out any positives that the back 3 have in that half.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:This is horrific from England. The worst half they've had under Jones. Hopefully in the second half they'll try and play some rugby.

Fair play to the French. They're clearly more up for it than England.
Umm England 38-38 Scotland?

Worse than that. At least Scotland were having the half of their lives. England are getting properly done in by the French third team.

Italy ruck gate was far worse than either. And the 1st half against Japan.

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Post by Scottrf Sun 06 Dec 2020, 2:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:This is horrific from England. The worst half they've had under Jones. Hopefully in the second half they'll try and play some rugby.

Fair play to the French. They're clearly more up for it than England.
Umm England 38-38 Scotland?

Worse than that. At least Scotland were having the half of their lives. England are getting properly done in by the French third team.
You’re being ridiculous. It’s not even close. This is fairly poor, that was shocking.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:00 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:This is horrific from England. The worst half they've had under Jones. Hopefully in the second half they'll try and play some rugby.

Fair play to the French. They're clearly more up for it than England.
Umm England 38-38 Scotland?

Worse than that. At least Scotland were having the half of their lives. England are getting properly done in by the French third team.
You’re being ridiculous. It’s not even close. This is fairly poor, that was shocking.
I think the point is by now we shouldn't even be having this conversation.  All examples were poor (I mean good examples of bad).  Today is too........

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:02 pm

Very true doc. And I like the response here. Kick for the corner. Be more positive.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 06 Dec 2020, 3:06 pm

Positive substitutions as well.

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